There needs to be a major legal setback for the copyright monopolists. If you look at what happened after the US Supreme Court gave the MPAA a lesson in "Sony Corp. of America v. Universal City Studios, Inc., 464 U.S. 417 (1984)" you can see a huge rush by the media giants to fill the wants and needs of the consumer.
As soon as there is some significant legal defeat of the push for eternal copyright monopoly the floodgates will again open and we will see the media companies start to embrace the internet instead of trying to kill it.
Discussion on:
@sismoc If only the average consumer could buy politicians like the MAFIAA can.
@sismoc
1. SOPA and its ilk are poorly written (welfare for lawyers) and should be shelved
2. Theft anywhere is illegal including the internet (piracy is theft)
3. Businesses (corporate or otherwise) do cater to their customers or risk failure
4. Property rights are second to individual rights but individual rights do not seem to include the right to steal another's property
5. Don't like the price or costs...don't buy it (not a good reason to steal it)
1. SOPA and its ilk are poorly written (welfare for lawyers) and should be shelved
2. Theft anywhere is illegal including the internet (piracy is theft)
3. Businesses (corporate or otherwise) do cater to their customers or risk failure
4. Property rights are second to individual rights but individual rights do not seem to include the right to steal another's property
5. Don't like the price or costs...don't buy it (not a good reason to steal it)
@J Hartsock The media industry likes to promote the meme of "intellectual property" as if it was the same sort of property as a motorbike. It isn't. Copyright is a contract between society and (in theory) artists to allow artists to reap reasonable rewards from their creations, and in turn enrich society. The "copyright revenue guarantee contract" between society and artists has changed many times over the last 100 years, every time when society has determined that the gains by encouraging new technologies and forms of art are more important than the entrenched business models of the previous generation of media moguls. For a readable and interesting background on the history and realities of intellectual "property" read Free Culture, by Lawrence Lessig (free download available). It will open your eyes to the marketing of the phrase "intellectual property"- after all, compared to a campaign against "piracy" (those stinking bloodthirsty amoral fiends!) there are not many people who would be as supportive for an MPAA campaign "support our right to increasing profits, no change to our business models, and ultimate control over over all forms of distribution".
@J Hartsock
No.
That is not true.
The definition of theft is to remove something from its rightful owner.
Copying does not remove the original from existence.
Besides; copyright is a privilege and not a property !
Privileges can be taken away by the ones who granted them in the first place and that would be perfectly legal.
These privileges has become perverse compared to the original.
It was 14 years from publication and it was designed originally to protect artists /authors from unscrupulous publishers and not against the public , who through governments granted the privileges.
No.
That is not true.
The definition of theft is to remove something from its rightful owner.
Copying does not remove the original from existence.
Besides; copyright is a privilege and not a property !
Privileges can be taken away by the ones who granted them in the first place and that would be perfectly legal.
These privileges has become perverse compared to the original.
It was 14 years from publication and it was designed originally to protect artists /authors from unscrupulous publishers and not against the public , who through governments granted the privileges.
Here's a bizarre speech from today at Davos by a disgruntled media mogul. He was slamming the conference and Silicon Valley, the Bilderbergers - it was all over the map - but entertaining.
http://mankabros.com/blogs/chairman/2012/01/25/davos-world-economic-forum-2012-khan-manka-jr-keynote-address/
http://mankabros.com/blogs/chairman/2012/01/25/davos-world-economic-forum-2012-khan-manka-jr-keynote-address/
I've said it before and I'll say it again, the man is a visionary like few others.
Khan Manka, Jr. - Davos World Economic Forum, Switzerland, Jan 25, 2012
Keynote Address highlights to the Davos banking fraternity [for those too lazy to avail themselves to the entire speech]
- Thanks so much. Please, thanks, I only have a few minutes. Please, I want to get out of Switzerland more than Roman Polanski -- believe me...
- Can I just say to Motion Picture Academy -- go f-ck yourselves. How about a little of that, huh? No nominations? Maybe next year you should watch the movies you nominate.
- As many of you know, I spoke to the creepy Bilderberg Conference last summer. I won't go into details -- but it was the worst 24 hours of my life. I mean, the hooded waiters were one thing -- but the Lionel Richie concert -- that was just too much!
- Do you really think you can do anything to help anybody in the world? You freaks are delusional.
- In Hollywood, we are facing the battle of our lives. This is a battle for our very existence. As many of you know, entrepreneurs from Silicon Valley are a bunch of conceited pricks who think they can do whatever they want.
- It's called human decency, assh0les. You could care less about anything because you think you run the world.
- I am done with Switzerland. Victor (Pinchuk), I'm de-icing the plane -- whenever you're ready I am out of here.
The man never fails to deliver. Say no more.
Khan Manka, Jr. - Davos World Economic Forum, Switzerland, Jan 25, 2012
Keynote Address highlights to the Davos banking fraternity [for those too lazy to avail themselves to the entire speech]
- Thanks so much. Please, thanks, I only have a few minutes. Please, I want to get out of Switzerland more than Roman Polanski -- believe me...
- Can I just say to Motion Picture Academy -- go f-ck yourselves. How about a little of that, huh? No nominations? Maybe next year you should watch the movies you nominate.
- As many of you know, I spoke to the creepy Bilderberg Conference last summer. I won't go into details -- but it was the worst 24 hours of my life. I mean, the hooded waiters were one thing -- but the Lionel Richie concert -- that was just too much!
- Do you really think you can do anything to help anybody in the world? You freaks are delusional.
- In Hollywood, we are facing the battle of our lives. This is a battle for our very existence. As many of you know, entrepreneurs from Silicon Valley are a bunch of conceited pricks who think they can do whatever they want.
- It's called human decency, assh0les. You could care less about anything because you think you run the world.
- I am done with Switzerland. Victor (Pinchuk), I'm de-icing the plane -- whenever you're ready I am out of here.
The man never fails to deliver. Say no more.
@klumper: I read the "blog" and investigated the "swiss guard types took the hoodie wearing guy away" and it's all... "content". Not factual. The man is so out of touch with reality it's amazing he can walk and chew gum at the same time.
@JillKennedy
I am not impressed with the Keynote (rant) or the Manka Bros. portfolio. Not at all helping MPAA cause, it's actually hurting it. Come on hoody goons escorted out by the Swiss Guard? That's epic fiction.
I am not impressed with the Keynote (rant) or the Manka Bros. portfolio. Not at all helping MPAA cause, it's actually hurting it. Come on hoody goons escorted out by the Swiss Guard? That's epic fiction.
Apple first attempted to combat piracy (of musical digital media) with the iTunes business model. Charge a nominal fee for a song. De-emphasize the album model (a collection of songs) and emphasize the "single song" download model.
As Scott pointed out, piracy is a direct response to exorbitant purchase costs for a particular product. Lower the costs involved .. lower the piracy. In actuality, that might be the only effective tool civilizations can use to combat the "Megauploads" of the world.
As Scott pointed out, piracy is a direct response to exorbitant purchase costs for a particular product. Lower the costs involved .. lower the piracy. In actuality, that might be the only effective tool civilizations can use to combat the "Megauploads" of the world.
"Pushing for draconian legislation and punishing your customers is the wrong message to be sending if you want people to back you. Don???t punish the customers. Work with them. Because this will not kill the Internet, and will result in even more lost sales. People that didn???t pirate media before would do it in retaliation for being treated like a criminal."
Agreed 100%.
Agreed 100%.
@lehnerus2000
I must ask, "How do you expect a group of entrenched ID10Ts to display any leadership here"?
It is my not so humble opinion that there is more intelligence in the daily excremental output of a large zoo; than exists in the heads of these ID10Ts.
I must ask, "How do you expect a group of entrenched ID10Ts to display any leadership here"?
It is my not so humble opinion that there is more intelligence in the daily excremental output of a large zoo; than exists in the heads of these ID10Ts.
@fatman65536
That is one possibility.
What if the opposite is true?
The Corporations and Government know it will fail and will use that as an excuse to introduce even more draconian legislation.
"It's about time we put those useless peasants back in their sewers."
That is one possibility.
What if the opposite is true?
The Corporations and Government know it will fail and will use that as an excuse to introduce even more draconian legislation.
"It's about time we put those useless peasants back in their sewers."
I don't doubt the authorities can put a sizable dent in piracy by use of quasi legal constricts coupled with enough effort, but the bigger problem lies in the collateral damage that is almost certain to occur. Both by way of the new and uncharted judicial precedents they're aiming to set, and per anyone who happens to be caught in the ensuing crossfire.
If the issue could be neatly cubbyholed and any peripheral fallout contained, it'd be one thing. But I'd bet my last nickel that will not be the case. Conventional wisdom suggests that as soon as they're given an inch, they'll expect (and demand) a mile.
Knowing Hollywood is behind these painted pig measures hardly helps. Knowing further that the entertainment and media conglomerates make obscene amounts of jack as it is, often at the expense of others who are more deserving, further restricts tears and wisps of sympathy. [exception withstanding to Khan Manka Jr. -- alone]
The reality is, a lot of everyday folk no longer relate to Tinsel Town, no more than they do to Wall Street, the Multinational corpse, or our Federal-gone-One-World government, all of whom are swimming in pools of loot and self privilege. What are any of them doing to resist, let alone reverse, the decline of this country? Besides stuffing their pockets, as well as foreign ones, while promising a brighter tomorrow.
Depriving the masses of honest, gainful employment makes pirates and paupers out of common folk, and in numbers that rival the wayward and criminal elements the entertainment industry, buttressed by legions of lobbyist and legalese proxies, are claiming to target.
And when you ask them, "How much should we give?" Ooh, they only answer "More! more! more!" -- J.C. Fogerty, Fortunate Son (Creedence)
If the issue could be neatly cubbyholed and any peripheral fallout contained, it'd be one thing. But I'd bet my last nickel that will not be the case. Conventional wisdom suggests that as soon as they're given an inch, they'll expect (and demand) a mile.
Knowing Hollywood is behind these painted pig measures hardly helps. Knowing further that the entertainment and media conglomerates make obscene amounts of jack as it is, often at the expense of others who are more deserving, further restricts tears and wisps of sympathy. [exception withstanding to Khan Manka Jr. -- alone]
The reality is, a lot of everyday folk no longer relate to Tinsel Town, no more than they do to Wall Street, the Multinational corpse, or our Federal-gone-One-World government, all of whom are swimming in pools of loot and self privilege. What are any of them doing to resist, let alone reverse, the decline of this country? Besides stuffing their pockets, as well as foreign ones, while promising a brighter tomorrow.
Depriving the masses of honest, gainful employment makes pirates and paupers out of common folk, and in numbers that rival the wayward and criminal elements the entertainment industry, buttressed by legions of lobbyist and legalese proxies, are claiming to target.
And when you ask them, "How much should we give?" Ooh, they only answer "More! more! more!" -- J.C. Fogerty, Fortunate Son (Creedence)
I thought this article was pretty spot on. /agree
As I have said many times before, you cannot legislate ethics. The solution is education. It starts in every home. We must behave properly and teach our children to as well. How many of us can say WE have never improperly downloaded or copied protected material? If we do it so will our children. They will do it because they think its okay since all their friends do it. This is the trend we must reverse and it will take time. Laws are useless unless people learn to respect them.
@JPuglisiLLC: Not effective. If those bright happy shiny educated people you propose to create are treated no differently than the less "properly taught" folks of today (and they won't be), they'll turn pirate for exactly the same reason.
Children don't eventually "pirate" things because mom and dad did, they do it because that's how the "content owners" want them to. Not conciously, but by treating all users like potential criminals and then using dead and outdated models to restrict distribution of content all over the world.
When folks in the US have to wait 2 years to see a British TV show (and vice versa), it gets sent to folks who want to see it by hook or by crook. And to perdition with "agreements" between content providers over when and where (and even "if") each program will air.
The iTunes model proves this time and again. People who can see a legal copy of Doctor Who via iTunes almost as soon as the show airs in the UK don't care if it can be had by bittorrent. They'll get the iTunes version to be guaranteed an error and damage free copy.
This problem is purely about ossified thinking and outdated business models. I seem to recall a certain problem involving a "content killing" technology called "movable type". Business models that do not evolve deserve to die in obscurity.
Children don't eventually "pirate" things because mom and dad did, they do it because that's how the "content owners" want them to. Not conciously, but by treating all users like potential criminals and then using dead and outdated models to restrict distribution of content all over the world.
When folks in the US have to wait 2 years to see a British TV show (and vice versa), it gets sent to folks who want to see it by hook or by crook. And to perdition with "agreements" between content providers over when and where (and even "if") each program will air.
The iTunes model proves this time and again. People who can see a legal copy of Doctor Who via iTunes almost as soon as the show airs in the UK don't care if it can be had by bittorrent. They'll get the iTunes version to be guaranteed an error and damage free copy.
This problem is purely about ossified thinking and outdated business models. I seem to recall a certain problem involving a "content killing" technology called "movable type". Business models that do not evolve deserve to die in obscurity.
@JPuglisiLLC
"I learned it by watching you!"
Parents who use drugs have children who use drugs.
Brought to you by Partnership for a Drug-Free America.
I disagree that, "we must reverse the trend," you speak of, but I do agree that laws are useless.
"I learned it by watching you!"
Parents who use drugs have children who use drugs.
Brought to you by Partnership for a Drug-Free America.
I disagree that, "we must reverse the trend," you speak of, but I do agree that laws are useless.
Governments and corporations have as much of a chance as ending prostitution as they will piracy.
Big media shot itelf in the foot when it overturned the very comfortable compromise we had a few decades ago. Large-scale distribution of unauthorized copies for profit was verboten. Personal-use copying was permitted and subsidized by a surchage added to blank media and paid to the media companies. It worked. Consumers were happy, big media made money, what was the problem with this model?
Try to keep in mind that Piracy happens on both sides of the cash register.
Another reason for having a file of the content people want to see, even beyond the availability reason (the senseless balkanization of which region gets to see which movie/TV show), is to time shift programs that air when people are at work or otherwise shift the time for convenience. The "family" night used to be built around someone elses schedule, but in the 21'st Century, that is no longer practical. The content needs to be available when the family schedule permits.
So, A: availability - the ability of folks all over the globe to have access to content they otherwise can't get access to or is no longer "on air" B: Device shifting - the ability to have access to content on a device of the users choosing, not just when and where the content provider chooses (see below for who this really impacts) C: Time Shifting - Having access to content when the user chooses.
From B, only the advertisers would be hurt by this. It's the advertising revenue that content providers are schizophrenic about.
A new distribution channel awaits. If Hulu and all the other TV show streamers along with the NetFlix style movie streamers (which could allow for the ABC of user desires) were to be embraced by HollyWood, they'd see piracy plummet. As it is, these stream providers have very limited content available because the content providers are standing in the way. Even iTunes has a very limited selection of movies and TV shows available.
Time for the content providers to evolve their busimess models before they ossify in place.
So, A: availability - the ability of folks all over the globe to have access to content they otherwise can't get access to or is no longer "on air" B: Device shifting - the ability to have access to content on a device of the users choosing, not just when and where the content provider chooses (see below for who this really impacts) C: Time Shifting - Having access to content when the user chooses.
From B, only the advertisers would be hurt by this. It's the advertising revenue that content providers are schizophrenic about.
A new distribution channel awaits. If Hulu and all the other TV show streamers along with the NetFlix style movie streamers (which could allow for the ABC of user desires) were to be embraced by HollyWood, they'd see piracy plummet. As it is, these stream providers have very limited content available because the content providers are standing in the way. Even iTunes has a very limited selection of movies and TV shows available.
Time for the content providers to evolve their busimess models before they ossify in place.
I only take exception with the suggestion that the lost sales will be due to driving otherwise good customers to piracy. While "the industry" maintains that four large multinational firms control 90% of the world's media, frankly, that's bull. I think big media is corrupt. I will never, in my entire life, purchase a Blu-ray disc. I have not, nor is it likely that I will ever, pirate a movie or song. The draconian measures suggested will not salvage me as a customer, they will simply push me harder to find alternatives, no matter how hard they manipulate legislation to foster their contrived monopolies and artificially restrict the market.
@tkejlboom
Exactly.
In the long run it will never pay off to be an enemy of ones own customers.
The greed displayed by the "media-mafia" is simply too stubborn and greedy and are to some extent "killing the golden goose".
We all know what greed did to that goose.
Exactly.
In the long run it will never pay off to be an enemy of ones own customers.
The greed displayed by the "media-mafia" is simply too stubborn and greedy and are to some extent "killing the golden goose".
We all know what greed did to that goose.
The trouble with SOPA and PIPA is not that they would be effective measures against piracy. It's that they were muddled legalese.
Clear, relatively simple, straight-forward measures need to be taken both to discourage the culture of piracy and to catch and prosecute individual pirates. But that would be expensive, and the government would have to conscientiously enforce the measures, and they hate to be conscientious... or consistent for that matter. It's much more handy politically to be arbitrary, to say one thing and do another, to talk big about reform but do little and often (as, e.g. during prohibition) do the opposite.
Clear, relatively simple, straight-forward measures need to be taken both to discourage the culture of piracy and to catch and prosecute individual pirates. But that would be expensive, and the government would have to conscientiously enforce the measures, and they hate to be conscientious... or consistent for that matter. It's much more handy politically to be arbitrary, to say one thing and do another, to talk big about reform but do little and often (as, e.g. during prohibition) do the opposite.
@Professor8 Why should the government (taxpayer) enforce the media industries' outdated business model? They tried for a while to enforce their copyrights, but they found out that it was very expensive and didn't work very well. Now they are trying to roll off that expense onto the taxpayer and hope that the government will do a better job at enforcing their business model than they themselves could do.
Is it possible to stop piracy? No. This is no more possible than stopping illegal drug use, shoplifting, murder, etc..
Is it possible to inhibit piracy? Yes. The question is how much effort should be put into it, and at what point does it become counterproductive by harming legitimate users (i.e, "friendly fire").
There are two ways to inhibit piracy: The first is to make legitimate use more convenient and more desirable. The second is to make pirated material less convenient and less desirable. The problem is that corporations seem to be laser focused on the latter, and mostly ignoring the former.
Is it possible to inhibit piracy? Yes. The question is how much effort should be put into it, and at what point does it become counterproductive by harming legitimate users (i.e, "friendly fire").
There are two ways to inhibit piracy: The first is to make legitimate use more convenient and more desirable. The second is to make pirated material less convenient and less desirable. The problem is that corporations seem to be laser focused on the latter, and mostly ignoring the former.
the disgusting trade imbalance with China and the EXTREME product counterfeiting going on there? A couple of kids passing around a movie or game is a molecule of a drop in a bucket of what is going on in China.
@tek_heretik
THIS is the major problem - but because no one in DC has the courage to pointblank tell Beijing "YOU stop it - or we will stop YOU" it will continue.
And you can't even compare online, or offline, piracy with drug abuse; they're totally different activities.
THIS is the major problem - but because no one in DC has the courage to pointblank tell Beijing "YOU stop it - or we will stop YOU" it will continue.
And you can't even compare online, or offline, piracy with drug abuse; they're totally different activities.
"media companies make ridiculous amounts of money at the expense of the artists."
If you really believe that, I suggest you buy shares in these media companies. You might be disappointed with the returns.
However, I do agree with your headline.
If you really believe that, I suggest you buy shares in these media companies. You might be disappointed with the returns.
However, I do agree with your headline.
Record companies have an obsolete business model. Just like blacksmiths, milk men, linotype operators and vinyl record presses. Their value used to be in terms of quality production, distribution and marketing. Now, artists can do most of that themselves. The answer is not "stopping piracy." The answer is to redefine copyright infringement as the act of selling someone else's work _FOR MONEY_. The statistics that take every downloaded copy and valuing it as if it were bought at retail is so stupid as to be offensive.
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