Umm, speaking as a so-called Millennial, I have to say I prefer the eInk display eReaders. It's a much superior experience for extended reading of books. And I want to be able to read books in direct sunlight, such as on the beach on my upcoming vacation.
Then compare the battery life. 10 days versus 10 hours. It's a no-brainer. I can take my Nook with me on a trip and not even have to bother with bringing a charger.
The iPad is a cool device for a lot of reasons, but as an eBook reader, it stinks. Who wants to read for extended periods off an LCD screen? And then the battery drains far too quickly.
Discussion on:
@mjk2007 BetaMax was better than VHS, who won?
@PMUP who said beta max was better? it sucked! it was inconvenient to use as well!
@dimithrak it was widely acknowledged by the professional video production industry that the BetaMax format was superior in terms of cassette quality and video performance. However, it was more expensive, and exclusively SONY controlled, which led to its downfall as a consumer video media format.
Still, this did not stop Beta from excelling in the professional video production industry, and for many, many years, TV news production was done with BetaCam, video cameras that used Beta tape. It was only very RECENTLY replaced with HD video cams for field use. However it never shipped at the volumes that VHS did.
Still, this did not stop Beta from excelling in the professional video production industry, and for many, many years, TV news production was done with BetaCam, video cameras that used Beta tape. It was only very RECENTLY replaced with HD video cams for field use. However it never shipped at the volumes that VHS did.
@PMUP
And the exact scenario is happening here...like the death grip that Sony held onto the Beta format patents with, E Ink Corporation is doing the same thing with their display technology patents. Sony has proven time and time again, you *CAN* milk the cash cow *TO DEATH*. Almost every product Sony produces that carries a Sony patent has failed miserably and cost far more money than the patent licenses paid them.
E Ink Corporation needs to take a a close look at the Sony playbook and do exactly the opposite! In this way, E Ink Corporation *MAY* be able to stave off the exodus of vendors using their patents.
And the exact scenario is happening here...like the death grip that Sony held onto the Beta format patents with, E Ink Corporation is doing the same thing with their display technology patents. Sony has proven time and time again, you *CAN* milk the cash cow *TO DEATH*. Almost every product Sony produces that carries a Sony patent has failed miserably and cost far more money than the patent licenses paid them.
E Ink Corporation needs to take a a close look at the Sony playbook and do exactly the opposite! In this way, E Ink Corporation *MAY* be able to stave off the exodus of vendors using their patents.
@JPERLOW
The consumer Beta and the Pro Beta Max had almost nothing in common but the name. Yes the cassette size was the same but little else. Sony successfully used the similarity as a marketing ploy since most folks did not realize the difference.
VHS was also pushed all the way to HD. Unfortunatly the copyright protection folks squashed the ability to record HD.
Frankly this is a replay of almost 10 years ago with the first e-ink devices. The color LCDs stink in the sun and will continue to. This time around at least there are easy places to buy e-books.
The consumer Beta and the Pro Beta Max had almost nothing in common but the name. Yes the cassette size was the same but little else. Sony successfully used the similarity as a marketing ploy since most folks did not realize the difference.
VHS was also pushed all the way to HD. Unfortunatly the copyright protection folks squashed the ability to record HD.
Frankly this is a replay of almost 10 years ago with the first e-ink devices. The color LCDs stink in the sun and will continue to. This time around at least there are easy places to buy e-books.
to dimithrak: the betamax (or Beta) format has been in use in the television industry for almost 30 years for it's superior reproductive qualities to VHS and is only now beginning to be phased out in favor of server based storage and digital recording media.
@PMUP Early Betamax had only a 1 hour tape. They supposedly said, "Who'd want to tape more than an hour?" I guess no one considered the length of a movie. DUH
The original Atari 800 was superior to the Apple][, but Atari never marketed it right (no niche play, internal competition with game console) and Apple wrote history
Capitalism is not about producing the best product, it is about marketing a 'good enough' product.
The original Atari 800 was superior to the Apple][, but Atari never marketed it right (no niche play, internal competition with game console) and Apple wrote history
Capitalism is not about producing the best product, it is about marketing a 'good enough' product.
@mjk2007 I thing you are full of ****. Now some people are going to get a great deal on some great e-readers. new models are coming.
@mjk2007 100% agree with you.
But Cool wannabe's will read on the LCD and hurt their eyes in the process, just to be cool. Poor people, so sad.
But Cool wannabe's will read on the LCD and hurt their eyes in the process, just to be cool. Poor people, so sad.
I totally agree with you mjk.
I don't think e-readers are that different from gaming consoles - the companies make their money on the games and not the machines. It makes sense that the e-reader providers are using the readers as the base for competing for market share in the book market. The e-reader makers that are not linked to bookstores of their own will certainly struggle.
On another note, I am Gen Y but I like books. iPad offer a world of divided attention and distraction (news, facebook, youtube,film, music). A device like a kindle is just like, well, reading a book. It is as different experience from using an ipad as reading a book is to surfing the net.
I'm really impressed by my kindle. It's got me back into reading again because it's all so easy. I've never sung the praises of a device before, but it's great.
I don't think e-readers are that different from gaming consoles - the companies make their money on the games and not the machines. It makes sense that the e-reader providers are using the readers as the base for competing for market share in the book market. The e-reader makers that are not linked to bookstores of their own will certainly struggle.
On another note, I am Gen Y but I like books. iPad offer a world of divided attention and distraction (news, facebook, youtube,film, music). A device like a kindle is just like, well, reading a book. It is as different experience from using an ipad as reading a book is to surfing the net.
I'm really impressed by my kindle. It's got me back into reading again because it's all so easy. I've never sung the praises of a device before, but it's great.
I am sorry, but some people just want to read. I already have a desktop, a laptop, and a smart phone, and I DON'T want to read a novel on any of them. On the other hand a dedicated device like the nook allows me to read novels quite comfortably.
You are assuming that everyone is going to want a device for web browsing, and the truth is that most people already have other devices to use for browsing the web and they don't want to use them for reading novels.
So let's see, I could pay upwards of $500 for an IPad, or I could pay $150 for a Nook. Well since I only want to read, and ALREADY have the ability to browse the web in 3 different forms (actually more), then I think the Nook is a no brainer.
I think that is why a lot of people who just want to read will buy the Nook, or similar device, and people who want to browse the web will get another device.
I doubt that most people who purchase a tablet like the iPad are doing so with the intention of just reading.
As a person who both reads and browses the web, I can tell you that there is room for both.
You are assuming that everyone is going to want a device for web browsing, and the truth is that most people already have other devices to use for browsing the web and they don't want to use them for reading novels.
So let's see, I could pay upwards of $500 for an IPad, or I could pay $150 for a Nook. Well since I only want to read, and ALREADY have the ability to browse the web in 3 different forms (actually more), then I think the Nook is a no brainer.
I think that is why a lot of people who just want to read will buy the Nook, or similar device, and people who want to browse the web will get another device.
I doubt that most people who purchase a tablet like the iPad are doing so with the intention of just reading.
As a person who both reads and browses the web, I can tell you that there is room for both.
@shadowboxer123
A blogger with a new toy, and he thinks that's it's the bees knees and will rule the world forever, and everyone should just go ahead and roll over and play dead now.
Give him about 6 months, and he'll be back to normal . . .
A blogger with a new toy, and he thinks that's it's the bees knees and will rule the world forever, and everyone should just go ahead and roll over and play dead now.
Give him about 6 months, and he'll be back to normal . . .
@shadowboxer123 I have been reading on my smartphone for years - everything from a Bible, Novels and Newspapers.
My Doctoral dissertation was written half on a Palm.
Dedicated readers have a place for those who desire that - but they will be limited if they limit their functionality.
My Doctoral dissertation was written half on a Palm.
Dedicated readers have a place for those who desire that - but they will be limited if they limit their functionality.
@dhwagner
that's wonderful, but MOST people, not all, but MOST are not going to want to read a novel on a smartphone. are there exceptions? of course. but as a general rule most people will prefer something else.
that's wonderful, but MOST people, not all, but MOST are not going to want to read a novel on a smartphone. are there exceptions? of course. but as a general rule most people will prefer something else.
@shadowboxer123
"MOST people, not all, but MOST are not going to want to read a novel on a smartphone. are there exceptions? of course. but as a general rule most people will prefer something else."
Yes. A web browsing device.
Its true smartphones will be too small for many people. But e-ink devices are too "single purpose" for many others. People tend to want a "bargain" as their top priority. If color screen Android web tablets with 10-12 inch screens are virtually the same price as 6 inch e-Ink devices? I bet I know where most consumers will go. They either won't know, or won't care, about eyestrain or battery issues.
"MOST people, not all, but MOST are not going to want to read a novel on a smartphone. are there exceptions? of course. but as a general rule most people will prefer something else."
Yes. A web browsing device.
Its true smartphones will be too small for many people. But e-ink devices are too "single purpose" for many others. People tend to want a "bargain" as their top priority. If color screen Android web tablets with 10-12 inch screens are virtually the same price as 6 inch e-Ink devices? I bet I know where most consumers will go. They either won't know, or won't care, about eyestrain or battery issues.
@dhwagner Don't forget the limits of the proprietary KINDLE book format. I don't think users want to have to figure out if their eReader recognizes a file format. Nor do they want DRM. As for me, I want a used book eReader market and not the lame 2 weeks on the Nook.
@shadowboxer123 I agree iPad users are not getting it to read - try holding it up for long enough to read, then try a Kindle or a paperback. No contest. There is a place for a dedicated device and to imply the Millenials are all too distracted to read is condescending at best.
@nigebj Jason's logic about "millennials" vs. "boomers" is wrong, but the other part of his argument (that there just aren't enough people who CARE about the superiority of e-Ink displays to keep it commercially viable) seems correct. I don't think we should be distracted by his subtle bit of reverse agism if the larger part of his argument is correct. These devices are doomed, because the percentage of people OF ANY AGE who care more about less flashy things like battery life or how sharp a display is will dwarf the number of people who will opt instead for an Android device costing virtually the same price, which can websurf on the same piece of hardware. Pair that with the people who buy the iPad even sooner because of Apple's cool cache, and the market will be eaten out from underneath e-Ink devices sooner or later. Yes, there will always be a vocal majority who go on message boards and blogs and crow about how its superior (probably correctly) but that doesn't magically increase the profit margins and convince Ma and Pa America to give up their lifelong habits of trying to get the most for the least (the perception will be that a web-surfing color device for the same price range does that).
@shadowboxer123 You seem to think that what applies to YOU automatically applies to a large enough group of other people to keep a whole industry alive. It ain't so.
If things go down JUST right, ONE or TWO e-Ink device makers might survive by the skin of their teeth. Probably Amazon, who can subsidize the devices with ramped up book prices, and Sony, who may take a loss just to have a single model left to keep a toe in.
The fact that there's "a need" coming from a vocal minority doesn't change that most people aren't as exacting. That's not a business model to keep a product alive--its simply a way for people to vent, and project their own preferences (even if they are CORRECT preferences--e-Ink tech IS superior) onto a larger population who mostly don't care. And thus aren't buying enough to support an industry with shrinking profit margins and too many competitors.
If things go down JUST right, ONE or TWO e-Ink device makers might survive by the skin of their teeth. Probably Amazon, who can subsidize the devices with ramped up book prices, and Sony, who may take a loss just to have a single model left to keep a toe in.
The fact that there's "a need" coming from a vocal minority doesn't change that most people aren't as exacting. That's not a business model to keep a product alive--its simply a way for people to vent, and project their own preferences (even if they are CORRECT preferences--e-Ink tech IS superior) onto a larger population who mostly don't care. And thus aren't buying enough to support an industry with shrinking profit margins and too many competitors.
@Snark Shark
first- the Nook IS an Android device. with previous updates you can browse the web if you want and play some games. but all of that is secondary to its main function as a reader. i am sure that it will get more functionality with more updates, and I am also sure that sometime in the future there will be a Nook version 2.0.
Second I am not using what applies to me. Because I am traveling frequently, I am applying what I have observed. Hey don't take it from me, ask most people who have a Kindle or Nook what they use it for. Then ask most people who have an Ipad what they use it for. Most you will find have two different uses, and that is ok.
My point is that people can have different devices for different, and just because they came out with the Ipad doesn't mean that e readers are doomed.
But you know, with all due respect, I guess we will have to see what the future brings...
first- the Nook IS an Android device. with previous updates you can browse the web if you want and play some games. but all of that is secondary to its main function as a reader. i am sure that it will get more functionality with more updates, and I am also sure that sometime in the future there will be a Nook version 2.0.
Second I am not using what applies to me. Because I am traveling frequently, I am applying what I have observed. Hey don't take it from me, ask most people who have a Kindle or Nook what they use it for. Then ask most people who have an Ipad what they use it for. Most you will find have two different uses, and that is ok.
My point is that people can have different devices for different, and just because they came out with the Ipad doesn't mean that e readers are doomed.
But you know, with all due respect, I guess we will have to see what the future brings...
I have to disagree. For one thing, even if one company controls the e-ink technology that the ereaders use doesn't mean that they too facing steep competition can't also lower the price of using the technology. And Manufacturing prices come down. ereaders have been a success actually.
And I too am a millennial who wants to read in sunlight occasionally. I also have a desktop and several laptops. I think the ipad is cool and might read certain books with pictures or magazines on it but for mostly text and school books I'm using my kindle.
I'll have to read more about this transflective LCD technology. That sounds cool if it is everything you say it is.
Finally, I sort of like the idea of not having to be distracted by features the ipad has. I don't want to have the temptation to watch tv shows that much more accessible when I want to finish a book or study for a test.
And I too am a millennial who wants to read in sunlight occasionally. I also have a desktop and several laptops. I think the ipad is cool and might read certain books with pictures or magazines on it but for mostly text and school books I'm using my kindle.
I'll have to read more about this transflective LCD technology. That sounds cool if it is everything you say it is.
Finally, I sort of like the idea of not having to be distracted by features the ipad has. I don't want to have the temptation to watch tv shows that much more accessible when I want to finish a book or study for a test.
I tested the IPAD at BB and was not impressed with quality of the displayed text - sort of grainy (text on my 5-year old Axim looks better). I tested the nook, although much better, the text on a printed page is still superior in quality - I believe technology is still far away when they will match exactly how a printed page looks. Conclusion: Today's displays are only impressive to newbies or people who had bad displays in the past - I am totally unimpressed!
@salazare@... but in the long run, it is going to be too expensive to keep cutting down trees in order to produce books when those same words can be delivered electronically faster and for far less money.
@mwagner@...
Here we go again...
mwagner, there is a reason that paper has been around as a communication format for 3000+ years - because it is durable and lasts. The pulp used for books is renewable - trees grow again, and we are not talking old-growth forest here. Finally, everytime someone comes along and claims e-texts will replace paper books, I challenge them to the same experiment. Drop a book flat from two stories. Now do the same to you iPad/Kindle/Nook. Now drop a book down stairs. Do the same with your iPad/Kindle/Nook. Which one can you read now? What, you do not want to try it? Well, well, well. Paper 1 - E-text 0. E readers may have their place, but I would not bring my kindle to the beach.
Here we go again...
mwagner, there is a reason that paper has been around as a communication format for 3000+ years - because it is durable and lasts. The pulp used for books is renewable - trees grow again, and we are not talking old-growth forest here. Finally, everytime someone comes along and claims e-texts will replace paper books, I challenge them to the same experiment. Drop a book flat from two stories. Now do the same to you iPad/Kindle/Nook. Now drop a book down stairs. Do the same with your iPad/Kindle/Nook. Which one can you read now? What, you do not want to try it? Well, well, well. Paper 1 - E-text 0. E readers may have their place, but I would not bring my kindle to the beach.
@mwagner@...There are alternatives to cutting down trees for material to print on. You just don't see as many books made from spotted owls or baby seals anymore.... 
@salazare@... Maybe you might want to look at the new iPhone 4 display to see what the next iPad will look like.
A collection of people commenting on a site like this (who are probably "tech snobs" to a large degree) won't be representing the general public very well.
You'll have some e-Ink enthusiasts, sure. But FAR more people either don't know the difference, or don't care. They're more "bang for the buck" oriented, or on the other end they're impressed by what's "cool". E-ink is neither of those. It might be the BEST for the extremely task-oriented buyer, but most people aren't that. So the "what's cool" people will be buying the iPads, the "bang for the buck" people will be getting the Android devices, and E-ink will eventually be left to... hobbyists and people with very exacting standards.
You'll have some e-Ink enthusiasts, sure. But FAR more people either don't know the difference, or don't care. They're more "bang for the buck" oriented, or on the other end they're impressed by what's "cool". E-ink is neither of those. It might be the BEST for the extremely task-oriented buyer, but most people aren't that. So the "what's cool" people will be buying the iPads, the "bang for the buck" people will be getting the Android devices, and E-ink will eventually be left to... hobbyists and people with very exacting standards.
@Snark Shark Alas, I fear you are correct. I have found the convenience of the nook's form factor and e-ink display to be a great plus for enjoyable reading. Unfortunately, it is the masses that determine how devices will evolve. It's encouraging to see great advances in LCD displays, multitasking, and hardware performance to satisfy consumers. I'm also saddened that this same group seems to eschew reading in favor of quick and easy forms of entertainment delivered on the web.
@Snark Shark
with all due respect again, the Nook is an android device, and it already has had several updates to increase its functionality.
with all due respect again, the Nook is an android device, and it already has had several updates to increase its functionality.
@shadowboxer123 You're picking nits.
It may have Android as an OS, but its not a full web tablet, and that's what's going to break the back of the e-Ink market. Android web tablets, which are going to sell for well under $200.
It may have Android as an OS, but its not a full web tablet, and that's what's going to break the back of the e-Ink market. Android web tablets, which are going to sell for well under $200.
Since it's a subset of the people who read who will be the ebook consumers, there is still a chance that they will keep the e-ink readers alive.
"Content, not obsession over the devices themselves, will be king." For serious readers, it's ALWAYS been about the content. New release comes out and your current first choice seller has it, that's most likely where you will buy it. But if only some other seller has it, you'll probably go there and buy it. And ultimately, aren't books what a bookseller wants to sell you? A nice e-reader is just an enticement for you to make a specific seller your first choice...
"Content, not obsession over the devices themselves, will be king." For serious readers, it's ALWAYS been about the content. New release comes out and your current first choice seller has it, that's most likely where you will buy it. But if only some other seller has it, you'll probably go there and buy it. And ultimately, aren't books what a bookseller wants to sell you? A nice e-reader is just an enticement for you to make a specific seller your first choice...
As someone born in the 80s who owns a Kindle (first gen) and knows a couple other people in my generation with both iPhones/Droids and Kindles, I'm not so sure that the doomsday scenario will occur. Keep in mind that while the iPad, which would be the closes competitor to the Kindle, uses "cheap LCD technology", it also costs much, much more than a Kindle and doesn't have as much computing power as a laptop or netbook, which most people in my generation already have. I know more people with Kindles than iPads...and nobody I know actually reads eBooks on a smartphone.
@gotamd@...
I bought an iPhone (1st gen) then upgraded to 3GS and likely to get iPhone 4 in the next month or so. Since I keep buying iPhones and turn the old ones into thick iPod Touches, I couldn't justify a Kindle/Nook. I read about 80 books a year and I read them all on my iPhone. Most via the Kindle app, about 10 through the Barnes and Noble eReader app. Just finished my first book (not Winnie the Pooh) in iBooks. For the moment, I like the Kindle app, then the B&N eReader. They have a "night" mode which lets me read in the dark without disturbing my wife with the glow of the screen. iBooks, well, it is a first version.
With the new price of the Kindle, I might forgo the iPhone 4 and finally get a Kindle. I always thought that B&N and Amazon should be happy with selling content.
I bought an iPhone (1st gen) then upgraded to 3GS and likely to get iPhone 4 in the next month or so. Since I keep buying iPhones and turn the old ones into thick iPod Touches, I couldn't justify a Kindle/Nook. I read about 80 books a year and I read them all on my iPhone. Most via the Kindle app, about 10 through the Barnes and Noble eReader app. Just finished my first book (not Winnie the Pooh) in iBooks. For the moment, I like the Kindle app, then the B&N eReader. They have a "night" mode which lets me read in the dark without disturbing my wife with the glow of the screen. iBooks, well, it is a first version.
With the new price of the Kindle, I might forgo the iPhone 4 and finally get a Kindle. I always thought that B&N and Amazon should be happy with selling content.
I don't want to read my books on a phone, even though I can. I want to have at least a 5-inch screen -- easier on the eyes and requires fewer page turns. I think a light, legible reader will win with serious readers. I care way less bout the "nice effects" of turning pages and color.
@Mary Jo the problem is that the serious readers like you and me are in the minority. It's also a margins versus profit issue. You can't sustain a business on a minority of users especially when your profit margin for producing these devices are nil.
In the interim, a bunch of these devices will sell because of the price reduction. But Amazon and B&N cannot indefinitely sustain a business on zero profit on the devices. Once the Transflective screens are ready, there will be virtually no technological justification for keeping e-Ink technology around. I liken this to Analog technology for displays -- they had very high refresh rates and even the tube HDTV sets looked gorgeous, even when compared to today's LCD. But LCD is much cheaper to manufacture in volume. Videophiles who loved Analog were left in the dust. Today's economy just exacerbates the situation.
In the interim, a bunch of these devices will sell because of the price reduction. But Amazon and B&N cannot indefinitely sustain a business on zero profit on the devices. Once the Transflective screens are ready, there will be virtually no technological justification for keeping e-Ink technology around. I liken this to Analog technology for displays -- they had very high refresh rates and even the tube HDTV sets looked gorgeous, even when compared to today's LCD. But LCD is much cheaper to manufacture in volume. Videophiles who loved Analog were left in the dust. Today's economy just exacerbates the situation.
@jperlow I find two issues with your argument. First, I think you grossly underestimate the number of serious readers. Second, Amazon and B&N do not rely on the sale of the devices for profit, they rely on the sale of books (physical or electronic). Just like Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo with the game consoles. The money is in the content, not the hardware.
Also, until Apple, or any manufacturer of tablet devices, solves the battery life issue so it matches that of a dedicated eReader, I think serious readers will not take the devices seriously. Why use a device that has an inferior screen, and inferior battery life for reading when a person can have a dedicated device that is easy on the eyes (not styling, just easy to read for long periods) and lasts for days?
Also, until Apple, or any manufacturer of tablet devices, solves the battery life issue so it matches that of a dedicated eReader, I think serious readers will not take the devices seriously. Why use a device that has an inferior screen, and inferior battery life for reading when a person can have a dedicated device that is easy on the eyes (not styling, just easy to read for long periods) and lasts for days?
@jperlow sorry Jason, but you are defining the problem as a technologist and not as a consumer or businessperson. Amazon is the largest retailer of books in the world and B&N a distant second. They can easily afford to sell the devices at BELOW cost and still make huge profits on the ebooks they will sell, but only if they maintain proprietary formats for the books. I have all the devices on which ebooks can be read and I'll still take my Kindle over all of them. The iPad is just too heavy to effectively use as a reader and the screen is too small on smartphones (although I do use my iPhone Kindle app when I'm at lunch or other relatively short reading times). Amazon is in a much better market position than B&N or any of the other ereader manufacturers since they have already sold enough devices to fully amortize the development cost of the Kindles. That leaves actual production cost - which should be in the neighborhood of $50 as the rock-bottom price for which they could sell the units. So, you see, there are no viable competitors to the Kindle considering what must be Amazon's business model.
@jperlow sorry Jason, but you are defining the problem as a technologist and not as a consumer or businessperson. Amazon is the largest retailer of books in the world and B&N a distant second. They can easily afford to sell the devices at BELOW cost and still make huge profits on the ebooks they will sell, but only if they maintain proprietary formats for the books. I have all the devices on which ebooks can be read and I'll still take my Kindle over all of them. The iPad is just too heavy to effectively use as a reader and the screen is too small on smartphones (although I do use my iPhone Kindle app when I'm at lunch or other relatively short reading times). Amazon is in a much better market position than B&N or any of the other ereader manufacturers since they have already sold enough devices to fully amortize the development cost of the Kindles. That leaves actual production cost - which should be in the neighborhood of $50 as the rock-bottom price for which they could sell the units. So, you see, there are no viable competitors to the Kindle considering what must be Amazon's business model.
@RadarBob
I agree with Jason here. From a business perspective it makes sense that dedicated ereaders days are numbered. While I agree Amazon COULD afford to sell Kindles at a loss why should they? Maybe in the short term, long term it spells disaster for ereader devices. If there is no profit selling the devices then there is no R&D money to improve the devices and there is certainly no profit motive for any new company to come in and try to make a competing device. If the money is now in selling ebooks then that is where the R&D is going to go and that means ereader software not hardware. They will continue to be sold in a limited fashion as "connoisseur" devices but only by the book distributors that can afford to take a loss (in exchange for locked in sales) and that's about it. And even that market will fail once tablet devices are mainstream and the LCD display tech reaches a "daylight readable" level.
I agree with Jason here. From a business perspective it makes sense that dedicated ereaders days are numbered. While I agree Amazon COULD afford to sell Kindles at a loss why should they? Maybe in the short term, long term it spells disaster for ereader devices. If there is no profit selling the devices then there is no R&D money to improve the devices and there is certainly no profit motive for any new company to come in and try to make a competing device. If the money is now in selling ebooks then that is where the R&D is going to go and that means ereader software not hardware. They will continue to be sold in a limited fashion as "connoisseur" devices but only by the book distributors that can afford to take a loss (in exchange for locked in sales) and that's about it. And even that market will fail once tablet devices are mainstream and the LCD display tech reaches a "daylight readable" level.
@jperlow Sorry Jason but your logic is flawed. Most "serious readers" will find e-ink reader is superior to read than iPad, not to mention battery will last much longer in a single charge. If a serious reader found an iPad is useful, say doing anything else other than reading, they'll just keep both iPad and eReader.
Just because there are more "casual" readers out there doesn't necessary means eReader will not be supported by people who find they useful, especially iPad really can't substitute eReader's core benefits.
Saying iPad will cause eReader mass extinction would be like saying iPod Touch will cause PSP/Nintendo NDS/3DS mass extinction. It just didn't happen and will never be.
Just because there are more "casual" readers out there doesn't necessary means eReader will not be supported by people who find they useful, especially iPad really can't substitute eReader's core benefits.
Saying iPad will cause eReader mass extinction would be like saying iPod Touch will cause PSP/Nintendo NDS/3DS mass extinction. It just didn't happen and will never be.
@jperlow
Serious readers will ALWAYS be in the minority. And as has been pointed out before, the Profit will be be in the content, not the device.
Remember the original Xbox? MS sold those things at a loss, because they knew they'd make it up in game sales, and that gave them a chance to get a foothold in the market. That's what going to have to happen with the eReaders, whether they be single use devices, or the high dollar iPad/iPhone/touch ecosystem, before ebooks REALLY start to take off.
And I seem to remember some people saying a decade or two ago, that newspapers and TV would never lose their importance in Delivering the news to the country. The same will happen with paper books. Amazon and B&N know this, which is why they've bought the e-book /reader companies they have.
Amazon bought Mobipocket (that format is the so-called proprietary kindle format), and they bought lexcycle (stanza), arguably two of the best reader programs out there.
B&N bought the Fictionwise/eReader ecosystem, which got them eReader (formerly Peanut Reader on the palm, if I remember right).
They'd be stupid NOT to come out with reader apps for the other devices, and B&N has been one of the ones who embraced the ePub format (Granted it was kicking and screaming at first . . . ). But I still think that these devices won't go away anytime soon.
I don't believe that they'll conquer the market either, mainly for the unspoken reason you cited above: No one reads anymore, at least not seriously. But I don't think Apple is going to do as well in this area either for the same reason.
Serious readers will ALWAYS be in the minority. And as has been pointed out before, the Profit will be be in the content, not the device.
Remember the original Xbox? MS sold those things at a loss, because they knew they'd make it up in game sales, and that gave them a chance to get a foothold in the market. That's what going to have to happen with the eReaders, whether they be single use devices, or the high dollar iPad/iPhone/touch ecosystem, before ebooks REALLY start to take off.
And I seem to remember some people saying a decade or two ago, that newspapers and TV would never lose their importance in Delivering the news to the country. The same will happen with paper books. Amazon and B&N know this, which is why they've bought the e-book /reader companies they have.
Amazon bought Mobipocket (that format is the so-called proprietary kindle format), and they bought lexcycle (stanza), arguably two of the best reader programs out there.
B&N bought the Fictionwise/eReader ecosystem, which got them eReader (formerly Peanut Reader on the palm, if I remember right).
They'd be stupid NOT to come out with reader apps for the other devices, and B&N has been one of the ones who embraced the ePub format (Granted it was kicking and screaming at first . . .
). But I still think that these devices won't go away anytime soon. I don't believe that they'll conquer the market either, mainly for the unspoken reason you cited above: No one reads anymore, at least not seriously. But I don't think Apple is going to do as well in this area either for the same reason.
I'm an iPad user - I'm happy with it as an eReader and neither Kindle nor Nook would have really helped me.
I subscribe to some Fanatasy Roleplay books (Pathfinder, printed version - you get the PDF for free). You only get them in PDF format, they are heavy on colour and graphics and you only get them from the publisher.
Yesterday I used the device for the first time in a game as Game Master for a PDF only module I would have printed out in the past.
Maybe my needs are not mainstream - but the iPad gives me the freedom and functionality (GoodRead) I need.
And Kindle eBooks don't convince me yet. The few I looked up in the Amazon store were more expensive as electronic version as the printed ones.
Yes - RRP was 15% below the printed version - but if you get 0% rebate on electronic versions and 30% on the printed one - well - in this case I won't buy an inferior electronic book. Just look at the Lord of the Rings Trilogy at Amazon UK - double the price for the eBook compared to the (cheapest) printed version.
Thod
I subscribe to some Fanatasy Roleplay books (Pathfinder, printed version - you get the PDF for free). You only get them in PDF format, they are heavy on colour and graphics and you only get them from the publisher.
Yesterday I used the device for the first time in a game as Game Master for a PDF only module I would have printed out in the past.
Maybe my needs are not mainstream - but the iPad gives me the freedom and functionality (GoodRead) I need.
And Kindle eBooks don't convince me yet. The few I looked up in the Amazon store were more expensive as electronic version as the printed ones.
Yes - RRP was 15% below the printed version - but if you get 0% rebate on electronic versions and 30% on the printed one - well - in this case I won't buy an inferior electronic book. Just look at the Lord of the Rings Trilogy at Amazon UK - double the price for the eBook compared to the (cheapest) printed version.
Thod
@Thod You realize you can view PDF documents on the Kindle or Nook?
If anybody other than Apple tried to peddle the iPad as a reader, they'd be laughed out of business. The iPad is a HORRIBLE reader; the text is grainey and very hard on the eyes, and the "faux paper" background is just awful.
Also, the price difference is enormous; $150 vs. $500. No, these readers aren't going anywhere anytime soon.
This authors knows not of what he writes.
Also, the price difference is enormous; $150 vs. $500. No, these readers aren't going anywhere anytime soon.
This authors knows not of what he writes.
@tricktytom
Ipad is perfect as a reader, in fact it is better than any eink device around here (*).
(*) only applicable for book that use big fonts and up to 15 lines height, most likely a book for children such Winnie the Pooh. :-P
ps :personally i found annoying to read some technical documents in my full-hd 24" lcd screen (1920x1080) and it is funny how Apple is trying to convince some people that they can read anything in a 768x1024 screen. Petty.
Ipad is perfect as a reader, in fact it is better than any eink device around here (*).
(*) only applicable for book that use big fonts and up to 15 lines height, most likely a book for children such Winnie the Pooh. :-P
ps :personally i found annoying to read some technical documents in my full-hd 24" lcd screen (1920x1080) and it is funny how Apple is trying to convince some people that they can read anything in a 768x1024 screen. Petty.
Like the printer and its ink, the device is going to be a loss-leader for the DRM books these companies sell. Marginal players will drop out as DRM consolidates on a few big devices. Hopefully readers will vote with their wallets not to buy DRM.
I still can't believe people want rechargeable books. If the batteries are like all the other rechargeable batteries I see, the remaining time is not accurate. Imagine sitting down for a two-hour doctor's office wait and having your battery die.
What the world DESPERATELY needs is a standard replaceable rechargeable battery like the good old AA battery. So you can carry a fully charged spare.
I still can't believe people want rechargeable books. If the batteries are like all the other rechargeable batteries I see, the remaining time is not accurate. Imagine sitting down for a two-hour doctor's office wait and having your battery die.
What the world DESPERATELY needs is a standard replaceable rechargeable battery like the good old AA battery. So you can carry a fully charged spare.
@scott1329
That on the e-ink devices you only use power when going to the next page, I would be very surprised if you ran out of power in the Doctor's office, as these devices power time is measured in DAYS, not hours.
That on the e-ink devices you only use power when going to the next page, I would be very surprised if you ran out of power in the Doctor's office, as these devices power time is measured in DAYS, not hours.
@JLHenry
I agree with you. The time is about 10 days on a Nook, vs. 10 hours on a Ipad.
Don't think battery life is an issue here for the Nook.
I agree with you. The time is about 10 days on a Nook, vs. 10 hours on a Ipad.
Don't think battery life is an issue here for the Nook.
I think dedicated readers will exist as long as e-Ink continues to have advantages over display technologies used for computing. A big advantage not mentioned is the extremely low power consumption of the display. The low refresh speed so far makes it undesirable for a computer display, but it's ideal for a dedicated reader.
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