The Steve Jobs effect

February 18, 2010, 10:03am PST | Length: 00:06:52
Daring Fireball editor John Gruber talks about the CEO's effect on Apple over the last 25 years--from the time of his ouster, to his subsequent return. Gruber offers an equally optimistic and pessimistic take on what his eventual departure will mean for the future of the consumer electronics maker.

Transcript

The Steve Jobs effect

>> Go back 25 years to 1985 and Steve Jobs is one year out from leading the team that shipped the initial Macintosh and at that point he got forced out of Apple. Everybody knows that this happened. This is not like a footnote in history, this is like a major turning point in the whole mythology around Apple that you know the guy who found it in a garage and lead them to this sensational start got forced out, stabbed in the back, was away for a decade then came back and led them back to like previously unseen success, it's you know it's a fantastic story you couldn't make it up for a movie, but we just sort of accept it for fact it's the way that like things have happened in history and no matter how absurd once they sort of settle in you stop being amazed by it. So just like consider like prohibition in the United States like less than 100 years ago they outlawed boos like what think about that now like if somebody came up and decided for their campaign for next year in politics hey lets outlaw boos, like but somehow it had been. They fired Steve Jobs, right I mean that is crazy so for all the handering and worrying over the past few years about what happens to Apple when Steve is no longer there in 1985 they had him, he'd just delivered a hit and they fired him, it's inconceivable. So how did that happen? I think he was blindsided because he knew probably more than anybody what we all know. He's the greatest product guy in the history of this industry and firing him them before after or at any time would be the stupidest thing Apple could possibly do. His heir wasn't failing to realize that companies that are poorly structured and poorly run have the unfortunate tendency to actually do the stupidest thing that they could possibly do. It wasn't enough that he could lead great teams to create great products. So what I think he did in the aftermath of that was to sit back and figure out how a large company should be structured. The whole reason that Jobs convinced John Sculley to join Apple as CEO of Apple in the early 80s was that at the time Jobs bought into the notion that there was a need to have like a separation between the product guys who make the computers which is where Jobs saw himself as leading that, and then there's the business guys who run the company, and I think it's clear that after he got axed that he figured out that the right way for things is that there is no separation, the products are the company and if he was gonna do things right he needed to run the company himself. So what does he do now? What does he create? He's not an ex code running objective C, he's not in Photoshop designing pixels for the UI elements, he's not Johnny Ive assumed spelling in the hardware lab milling out hardware and aluminum and making prototypes of physical devices but I do think there's one product that Jobs designed himself personally and that's Apple, the company since he came back. What are the hallmarks of a great Steve Jobs product? I would say things like simplicity, clarity, obviousness, elegance, the direct in favor of the abstract. Well those same adjectives that I think describe Apple products or at least all of the good ones also describe Apple today as a whole. But his current singular and central role at Apple poses an obvious paradox and its one that people don't really like to talk about and its uncomfortable and it's this: He's irreplaceable, there's no doubt about that, but on the other hand he will eventually no longer be there, there is no doubt about that it's a certainty, everybody's going to be gone someday so the only comparison point I can really think of is Walt Disney. So in the 20s Walt Disney wanted to make the world's best animated short films and he was making them for the existing studios at the time and of course they screwed him so he decided alright I've got to make my own studio and he got his brother who had some actual business sense and they made the Disney Brothers Studio and they made the world's greatest animated short films. The 30s rolled around and he was already unsatisfied, he wanted to make animated features which no one had even tried before, wasn't even known if it was going to be possible, if it would work, would people even go to see them. Well they pulled it off, they made Snow White, they made Pinocchio, they made Dumbo, they made these great movies which don't just stand the test of time as great animated films I think you can honestly argue that you go back to like 1939 when Snow White came out its hard to find another movie from 1939 that still stands up today that you can actually watch and say this is this is still a good movie by modern standards, but he still wasn't done. Next came TV and at the time most TV or movie executives saw TV as a threat, it was something that was keeping people from going to the movie theaters, how do we go back to the way things were? Walt Disney was the complete opposite he saw it as an opportunity, another thing that Disney, the company could grow to dominate and they did, they had amazing success on TV. As soon as that was done he immediately moved on to theme parks. Why would you do that? I mean its one thing after another. Never satisfied with previous success no matter how great, always looking ahead to the next big thing. Sounds a lot like somebody else, but it's obviously a morbid comparison because we all know how Walt Disney left that company, he died and after he was gone the company struggled, it wasn't like you don't go back and think wow those Disney club cartoons from the 70s were unbelievable, they weren't. So the pessimistic take on Apple is that while Apple is obviously an undisputedly right now well organized company the pessimistic take is that it's a well organized company that is organized entirely around 1 irreplaceable guy, Steve Jobs, and that he's effectively a keystone, you remove him and the whole innovation engine just stops turning. The optimistic take though and I'm kind of coming around to it is that perhaps Jobs has structured Apple similarly to the other company he created while he was on exile from Apple, Pixar. Pixar is a company that has created a system and a culture for amazing quality and creative innovation with no singular figure at the center of it all and the system works year after year and it's repeatable. So perhaps in its absence Apple will work like that too. It's a question and we won't know the answer until the time comes of whether it's a inaudible personality or a culture.

==== Transcribed by Automatic Sync Technologies ====

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Talkback Most Recent of 9 Talkback(s)

  • Waste of time
    I would expect more from someone with a microfone.
    Specially on ZDNet.

    Telling us he doesn't know if Apple will make
    without Steve Jobs is as useful as asking if it's
    going to rain tomorrow.

    I will think twice before coming to ZDNet to watch
    another speech.
    ZDNet Gravatar
    andrefranco
    18th Feb 2010
  • Stabbing in the back...
    Steve Jobs did it too... to his companion and co-founder Steve Wozniak. The genius behind the computer for whom Steve Jobs hid profits he made with Wozniak's product.
    ZDNet Gravatar
    Rubix_z
    19th Feb 2010
  • Another thing
    Steve Jobs did NOT deliver a hit with the Macintosh. The guy talking doesn't know a lot about the history of Apple. The Macintosh became a hit only about two years after it was introduced, after Aldus wrote Pagemaker for the Macintosh. A computer needs killer apps to become successful. Jobs didn't realize that at the time - he put lots of money in a product concept that previously failed (the Lisa) while Scully disapproved, that product flopped AGAIN, and then Jobs was sent away.

    This speech really wasn't worth my time. Typical Apple fanboy rant.
    ZDNet Gravatar
    Rubix_z
    19th Feb 2010
  • IIIII think your wrong...
    First let me say, I'm a HUGE Microsoft apolagist, and I don't use ANY Apple products. I am not by ANY means an Apple fanboy. Its obvious Apple had its struggles under Steve Jobs, but the success of Mac is undeniable. Yes it took a while for the public to adopt Macs, but a GUI was a fairly new concept to the public at large. And yes a lot of the adoption was driven by giving Macs away to schools etc. Jobs didn't graduate from collage, given the magnitude of his learning curve his success was undeniable. He made a lot of mistakes, he was fired, made more mistakes with NeXT. But the point is, they were structural mistakes. The VISION for products is undeniable. No one, even today, can not in honesty say that the original Mac was not an innovation of usability. The NeXT computer was ever MORE so a product of vision. "A computer needs killer apps to become successful." obviously Jobs learned that as the term "apps" has almost become synonymous with iPhone applications. Jobs has near perfected his ability to turn his vision into marketable products with a success rate that is near unheard of in the tech industry. And as much as I disdain Apples marketing methods and device feature sets, numbers don't lie, Steve Jobs is the success and vision behind Apple.
    ZDNet Gravatar
    shadfurman
    22nd Feb 2010
  • Wannabe effect more like it leave SJ outa this lol
    Rrrreowrrr if we're going to go on about history
    it's better to hear it from those who were there at the time not just everyone and they're dog with
    the i have a ten second theory and thats the way it is i tells ya.

    First of all do we care if someone that can barely command the english language doesn't return to this place real no brainer that one in every sense of the word truelly heart breaking stuff NoT!

    As for the history of Apple well i did my homework and to say this or that is shaky as lots of things were in the early stages and a lot of things haven't been documented or done so badly.

    Wosniak to my understanding left on his own
    accord to go start HP or whatever as no doubt he was annoyed with the way things were being run at the time?

    Saying that an Application made Apple is as stupid
    as saying apple seeds will grow a G5 if you feed them the right chemicals early on.

    Yes Cursors, joysticks, mice, trakballs erk
    and allsorts of hardware/software for allsorts of computers is what made computing what it is today.

    The humble Font Steve really loves them
    as he has said in many a keynote speech.

    If your going to go on about history look at it
    overall not this happened cos of that.

    It's not dominoes and unless your certain your
    facts are straight and proveable in which case
    please do mention where you obtained this info.

    Otherwise once again it's nothing more than opinion.

    Opinions are like body parts everyones got them.

    Wether yours are relevant are a whole different story.

    I respect each manafacturer and company on they're
    own merits choosing sides is virtually pointless
    especially seeing as mac went to the dark side.

    Having Mac OS X and windows run on the same machine is almost sickening.

    I'm not a mac fanboy as is often said but i respect that like solaris and linux they decided
    there had to be another solution.

    How they got there is almost irrelevant
    watch the interview with BG and SJ and you'll
    see how pointless it is to be sqwabbling over
    what they see to be not even an issue.

    As long as they all make money everyones happy :P

    Case closed.

    Wanna be's like Zdnet can go home your to late
    to jump on the bandwagon lol sorry fireball editor pfffft care factor rofl.

    Gee i hope no one paid to see that dribble.

    Sorry but it's all been said before try reading the apple forums sometime :P
    ZDNet Gravatar
    337
    22nd Feb 2010
  • Until he puts Blu-ray in every desktop he needs to be forced out yet again
    Until the man puts Blu-ray in every desktop he's a dinosaur
    and needs to be forced out yet again.
    ZDNet Gravatar
    xbjllb
    23rd Feb 2010
  • RE: The Steve Jobs effect
    @xbjllb Sorry Xbjiib, but blu-ray is already a dinosaur. Steve got the call right with digital downloads and flash memory as the medium that will be used in future. Next round of MacBookPro's won't even have a superdrive. Optical disks are so VHS

    Get a Mac, get a life.
    ZDNet Gravatar
    Martin Kelly
    16th Nov
  • Good systems always trump good workers
    It's the systems that live on long after any singular person is
    gone. Design good systems in your company structure
    instead of relying on people.
    ZDNet Gravatar
    Maxfli82
    26th Feb 2010
  • RE: The Steve Jobs effect
    AFAICT you've ceoevrd all the bases with this answer! What a joy to find such clear tihinkng. Thanks for posting! Swiss Ger Backpack
    ZDNet Gravatar
    woodapple
    20th Aug

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