The Apple Core

Jason D. O'Grady & David Morgenstern

Apple: The world’s most important Windows software developer?

By | March 15, 2011, 8:51pm PDT

Summary: According to Microsoft, the Zune platform isn’t dead; instead, it’s just finding a new hardware home inside a phone. Meanwhile, everyone outside of Redmond and the pathetic few Zune fanboys, know that Zune is dead. Who did this? Apple, perhaps Windows’ biggest and most popular independent software developer.

According to Microsoft, the Zune platform isn’t dead; instead, it’s just finding a new hardware home inside a phone. Meanwhile, everyone outside of Redmond and the pathetic few Zune fanboys, know that Zune is dead. Who did this? Apple, perhaps Windows’ biggest and most popular independent software developer.

Beating down a death-knell story on Bloomberg with a post on the Anything But iPod site, Microsoft Senior Business Manager for Zune Dave McLauchlan said that while there was no announcement of a new piece of Zune-branded hardware, the group was “thrilled by the consumer excitement for Zune across many new platforms.”

Here’s what you should know – ALL consumer electronics products have a lifespan, and the Zune HD is 18mo old. We were completely frank about this year’s Zune hardware being the WP7 phones, and we continue to both sell and fully support the Zune HD line of products. And as I’ve promised – we continue to bring new apps and games to the platform. More of those are in the works, I promise you.

Speaking as a father, it’s important never to make promises that can’t be kept. And McLauchlan is on safe ground here: “apps and games” are not the problem.

Over at the Zune Thoughts fanboy site, editor Steve McPherson, said “Zune is alive and well.” In the comments to his story, the author and reader were evidently hoping for more Zune and less Windows phone.

Steve McPherson: Hopefully over the next few months Microsoft will become more clear how the Zune hardware platform will evolve, but I’m glad to hear that I shouldn’t be laying my lovely silver Zune to rest any time soon.

Jim Fallons: How dumb is that. How about a mini zune, and a waterproof zune? Man I hope something comes along in the hardware department. And I still don’t know ANY kids that even know what Zune is.

The last piece of Zune hardware was released in Sept. 2009, which is how long in mobile device years? 25?

As I’ve posted, the best news that the Zune ever received was that a shipment was stolen — a sure sign of consumer acceptance. Unfortunately, this theft report was from three years ago!

Meanwhile, in the world of successful mobile players, Apple in its January financial analyst call ran down the numbers for iPod. CFO Peter Oppenheimer gave Microsoft the bad news:

Moving to our music products. We sold 19.4 million iPods compared to 21 million in the year-ago quarter. We experienced continued strong sales of iPod touch, which grew 27 percent year-over-year and accounted for over 50 percent of all iPods sold during the quarter. iPod’s share of the U.S. market for MP3 players remains at over 70 percent based on the latest monthly data published by NPD, and iPod continues to be the top-selling MP3 player in most countries we track based on the latest data published by GfK. We ended the quarter within our target range of four to six weeks of iPod channel inventory.

The iTunes Store generated another strong quarter with revenue exceeding $1.1 billion, thanks to strong sales of music, video and apps. We were extremely pleased to bring the legendary music of the Beatles to iTunes during the quarter and to introduce movies to the iTunes Store in Japan. And as we announced a few weeks ago, iTunes users are now renting and purchasing over 400,000 TV episodes and over 150,000 movies per day.

But there’s a bit of denial in this no-mo-Zune story. It wasn’t Mac users that killed the Zune. After all, who buys iPods? Windows users. iPads? Windows users. And iPhones? Same deal, Windows users.

Of course, many if not almost all Mac users have also purchased iOS devices! But most iOS users in the world must be Windows users. Yet this self-evident fact often comes as a surprise to some longtime Mac fans as well as to longtime Apple haters.

Yes, the very first iPod was Mac only. But was long, long ago. It was Windows users who killed the Zune.

I would also point to Apple’s wholly-owned subsidiary FileMaker, which makes award-winning, easy-to-use database products that work on both Windows and Macs. Most of its customers are Windows users.

My guess is that Apple is now the world’s largest third-party Windows developer, more important to users than Adobe.

So, when will we see Bertrand Serlet, Apple’s software engineering honcho, up on the stage with Steve Ballmer? Or Scott Forstall, Apple’s iOS software guru? I mean they are Microsoft ISVs, right?

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David Morgenstern has covered the Mac market and other technology segments for 20 years.

Disclosure

David Morgenstern

Freelance journalist/blogger David Morgenstern has nothing to disclose.

Biography

David Morgenstern

David Morgenstern has covered the Mac market and other technology segments for 20 years. In the recent past, he founded Ziff-Davis' Storage Supersite, served as news editor for Ziff Davis Internet and held several executive editorial positions at eWEEK. In the 1990s, David was editor of Ziff Davis' award-winning MacWEEK news publication as well as its successor title, eMediaWEEKly, which focused on multiplatform professional content creation. His byline can be found online and in print publications including CreativePro.com, Peachpit Press' Mac Bible and Popular Photography.

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RE: Apple: The world's most important Windows software developer?
melayr Updated - 17th Oct
I'm not a fanboi of any of the Greek gods in the hardware and software industry. I have iPod and I use Windows too. I use products because I like it and I'm happy with it not because I have some bias to a certain company. I think what's great about competition like in homes for sale and in home loan is the customers get to choose which suits them best. We should appreciate competition.
"Pathetic Zune fanbois". I think you're confusing writing a blog with posting insulting remarks. Anywhere you can FLAG a blogger? Apparently not. Next time try and confine your remarks to your own small pond. I know it can be depressing working in a fringe area, but try and bear up.

The iPod and every other MP3 player has been redundant for years. I also vaguely remember when music seemed important, but that's another story wink
@tonymcs@... Yeah, I agree.

David: we all know you are an Apple fanboy, but nobody calls you pathetic for that.

You tainted an otherwise well-thought post with your arrogance and bad manners.
@nomorebs: "pathetic" right next to phrase like "Apple fanboys", they surely mean it by context. David's writing is not different in this sense actually, he is simply mirroring the manner in which some of other bloggers write here towards buyers of Apple products. He did not start this -- he punishes this attitude, giving to such bloggers their own medicine.

Also, since Zune was such an astounding success (not), one has to be really, really desperate to decline smooth iPod user experience and huge ecosystem/platform benefits to join these few others who also own a Zune. That is beyond logic, and, in this sense, could be called "pathetic".

(Not to mean that I personally would use such words, but to mean that there is some reasoning into that point of view -- however harsh it may sound.)
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@denisrs : Excuse me, but I don't buy your apologizing for David. If you have specific examples of bloggers here deriding Apple fanboys with words like "pathetic" or similar, feel free to post them.

In any case, even if what you are saying is true, so what? Are you telling me that because some other bloggers are cr@ppy then it's OK for this one to be? Sorry denisrs, but I don't buy your "argument". Your justifications for calling other people "pathetic" for not switching to your favorite product are truly absurd too (doesn't sound harsh to me, just absurd)
@denisrs

"David's writing is not different in this sense actually, he is simply mirroring the manner in which some of other bloggers write here towards buyers of Apple products. He did not start this -- he punishes this attitude, giving to such bloggers their own medicine."

Not really. He is mirroring the manner of some of the forum posters of zdnet, no necessarily the other bloggers.

Furthermore, to quote shakespeare:

"If the enemy is an *** and a fool and a prating
coxcomb, is it meet, think you, that we should also,
look you, be an *** and a fool and a prating
coxcomb? in your own conscience, now?"
@nomorebs

Sheesh... Talk about a whiney, crabby, try to make everybody play nice, pansy. Go shove a Midol up yer arse, whine to your mommy, and cry yourself to sleep. It's a friggin blog. You know, something you won?t find in your book, "Proper Etiquette And The Wussification Of Modern Man".

If you are looking for manners and polite considerate conversation with some occasional witty banter, then by all means, cancel your internet and join a bridge club. Come back until you grow a pair.
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@nomorebs

No, "Apple fanboys" aren't usually called "pathetic" here. Usually they're called "ignorant" or "sheep." I assume, of course, that you feel they are not terms of derision.
@nomorebs et alii:

You can't spit a watermelon seed blindfolded without hitting a derisive sobriquet here or anywhere, about anything at all.

I tend to avoid mainstream favorites if only because the thought of being Sheeplish irks me. Zune users are like Mac users, and I am an iPhone/iPod user only because a) I'm a Mac user first and 2) bought in before they were the 'reference standards' and runaway successes: Heck I remember being surprised to find so many aesthetically-matched 'Made for iPod' accessories back in the early days; took me by surprise than an Apple-Anything became mainstream.

I guess my point is you have to celebrate the hold-outs; competition, however, slim benefits us all: witness the Zune intro causing iPod prices to drop, and iPod forcing MS to up the ante later with Zune HD. Cuts both ways. Apple's growth is no longer in 'classic' iPods (Classic/Shuffle/Nano) and MS must move away from dedicated music players as well.
@i8thecat : OK, sorry for my wussy language. So, it's fair then if I call you a pathetic s0n of a b1tch. Great.
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@msalzberg : Let us know what blogger in ZDNet calls you Apple users pathetic.
@nomorebs
I guess you missed the Wisdom of George Ou? Who not only said Mac users were pathetic, but would even twist (or even outright fabricate) fact to prove it. He was actually quite masterful at cherry picking stats to fit his Agenda. I remember once this fool even said a 10% resistor was a better quality part than a 1% resistor.
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pathetic few Zune fanboys
LTV10 16th Mar 2011
Now that's the most accurate statement said here in a long time.

Notice how they all cry below. We know who they are.
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pathetic
nomoreds 16th Mar 2011
@LTV10
pathetic is too kind a term for these people!
@LTV10 - people responding to official articles can say what they like. People who write official articles have a greater responsibility because they also happen to be representing the company allowing them to be posted. ZDNet cheapens itself its own "value" via some of its articles.
@LTV10 It still ruined a blog posting.
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You're pathetic yourself
Will Farrell 16th Mar 2011
@LTV10
You post the same pathetic stuff everyday. But what can you expect from somebody who names himself after a lawnmower

Was that the best you could come up with?!?
@Hypnotoad72

Maybe you should learn to read?
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Ooops - - See? See?
LTV10 Updated - 16th Mar 2011
You post the same pathetic stuff everyday. But what can you expect from somebody who names himself after a lawnmower

See? There's one of the ones I was talking about. He also knows he's one of the ones David was talking about.

They get bad news and it's sour grapes time. lol...

Was that the best you could come up with?!?

Hey, it's a kick-azz lawnmower. Best in the world.

Now you know David was talking about you. Fess up. C'mon. grin
@tonymcs@... 100% Agreement here as well

What an idiotic thing to say. Just because we refuse to follow the sheeple and purchase Apple products, we're "pathetic"?

I, for one, despise the I-Tunes software and players. My family and I will take our Zunes over them any day - and the Zune PC software makes I-Tunes look like a steaming pile. I still have my original first-gen 30GB Zune player and use it every day in my car and when I travel.

I know one thing - there is nothing more pathetic than an Apple fanboi talking smack about other platform users.
@j28n
Suggestion:
Hooked on Phonics.
Does wonders.
@j28n There is definitely one thing that is at least as pathetic and in at least some cases, more so. To see one all you have to do is look in a mirror. What you are seeing is a small minded hater, no better or worse than and fanboy no matter the topic.
@tonymcs@...
I'm sorry, but since when are bloggers held to any such standards? That's the point of blogs.. they're meant to be opinion pieces. While some are much more informative, etc. there is no such standard that says they have to be. Especially on ZDNET.
@techconc - I thought this was a news site?

"Kick off your day with ZDNet's daily e-mail newsletter. It's the freshest tech news and opinion, served hot. Get it." is the ONLY part of the article that refers to "opinion" and that's tacked in at the bottom, suggesting it's more of an ad than any proper disclaimer - which would usually be at the TOP of the article.
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@tonymcs@...
Rememeber in the begining years, iTunes only worked on iPods, so even if new music players came along the users had a choice of repurchasing all of their music, or just buy another iPod.

Once they had the market share they wanted, they dropped the DRM, but buy then it was too late, the same problem existed, so the lack of success was more to the fact that iPods users would be asked to repurchase all their DRM'd music if they wanted to get a competing price

Apple's version of the ETF
@Will Farrell

Apple did not just "drop DRM" they lobbied hard for it and only EMI bought in at first. Others eventually followed.

The music industry handed Apple the MP3 player market on a silver plater.
Misquote. He didn't call Zune fanboys pathetic, he said they were pathetically few. Big difference -- not an ad hominem slur.
@tonymcs@...
Maybe if you took a hooked on phonics course (and perhaps one in ethics) you might have had an easier time of it. In fact, the original quote was not "Pathetic Zune fanbois" (and the capitalization and misspelling bears evidence that you did not cut and paste the quote) but rather "pathetic FEW Zune fanboys.

Read much?
@DeusXMachina So the few Zune fanboys are pathetic? Why? Because they don't share your obsession with Apple products? If they were iPod fanboys then they are not pathetic? Why? Because there are a lot of those?
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@ nomorebs
Okay, apparently Hooked on Phonics is not enough, we need TOEFL courses as well.
FYI, the idiomatic phrase "pathetic few" means that the NUMBER of items is small. It says nothing about the items themselves. For example, "There are a pathetic few people left whom anyone could call literate."
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How do you flag an article as "Spam"
Will Farrell 16th Mar 2011
@tonymcs@...
Morgenstern can do an alright job when he wants to, but this article sounds like he took an idiotic shortcuts to get page hits -

He's become a troll for money.
He should be addressed moving forward as David Trollenstern
but y does chinese just use windowns ?
www.awwgame.com
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@tonymcs@...

So saying pathetically few is 100% correct. That is not to say the Zune fans were pathetic.

You say you program and you can't get logic 101? You might want to stop dealing with toy programming tools like VS.
@tonymcs@... While I was surprised to see such comments in the blog and agree it shouldn't have been done aren't you being a bit hypocritical since you attack others all the time with similar remarks though from the other side.
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Ah, ZDNet - how I'm reminded why I stopped coming here.

The first paragraph of the entire article sets the tone:
"Meanwhile, everyone outside of Redmond and the pathetic few Zune fanboys..."

Journalism and objective reporting, who needs those, right? Let's just start the entire piece by promoting the same, tired, "I hate you/you hate me" fanboy tripe. Guaranteed hits!

As for the article, Zune is dead because:
A) Microsoft was significantly late to the party;
B) The standalone player was decent but tried to reinvent the wheel at a time when the wheel didn't need reinventing (first gen with WiFi sync that no one used, for example);
C) Windows Phone 7 was the logical conclusion to the Zune brand, no matter how much Microsoft tried saying WinPho7 wasn't going to be a "Zune Phone".

But hey, if you want to go back to fanboy baiting:
I had an iPod nano 5th gen. I hated it because I'm a major audiophile and the iPods have some of the worst dynamic range and overall audio quality of any player on the market. Even crappy Sansa Fuze players sound better. Apple's just lucky millions of people apparently don't care about audio quality.
@Captiosus

I don't understand the 'late to the party' accusations. Of course Zunes came out long after the MP3 player market was cornered by Apple, but in 2006 most people still didn't own MP3 players. Microsoft's biggest error was being too tepid and not releasing the Zune internationally. I got my first Zune a year after launch (Zunes are not available in my country), and everyone who saw it and asked what it was was really impressed by it, and more than a few people were disappointed when I said it wasn't on sale in our country. So they probably ended up getting iPods.

Also, Zune launched with features that were fresh and not available on most platforms, such as Zune Pass, WiFi sync, and FM radio (all still not available on most iPods I believe).

FWIW I use wireless sync on my Zune and WP7 phone as my primary sync.
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Being late matters
Robert Hahn 16th Mar 2011
but in 2006 most people still didn't own MP3 players.
The reason that "being late to the party" is such a big deal, even though a market may not even be close to being saturated, is that there exists something called the "learning curve" which drives costs lower over time.

There are a variety of factors that make up the learning curve -- economies of scale as volume ramps up, working with vendors to reduce chip counts with custom logic, ideas that pop up on the manufacturing floor to reduce assembly time -- a whole bunch of things that collectively act to reduce the cost of the device.

If you arrive late to one of these parties, everyone but you has gone down the curve and as a result has lower costs than you. This means they can set prices at levels that would cause you to lose money while they were doing very well. Hewlett-Packard found that the single biggest factor determining the lifetime profitability of a new product was whether it was early or late to market.

All of Apple's iOS devices have taken advantage of this. The iPod got out early and never surrendered the lead. The same is happening now with the iPad... It's off to a huge lead and competitors are having serious trouble matching the price. Analysts will tell you that "Android" phones have passed up iPhones, but there is no such company as Android making phones. No single maker of Androidvphones comes close to Applevin volume, with the result that once again Apple is making tons of money while The Other Guys are breathing fumes.

It does happen sometimes that long after a market settles out, the leader gets complacent and falls asleep, allowing an aggressive latecomer to come in and shake thing up. In the US, Vlasic did this in the pickle business. Heinz basically rolled over while Vlasic took over the store shelves. But that sort of thing is rare.
@allusernamestaken
Everyone who saw it and had a clue would have known that it was just a rebranded Toshiba Gigabeat. A device I am quite sure WAS available in your country.
@Captiosus
The intention was never to support the Zune long term. There is no money to be made in hardware. Microsoft has said this all along. The Zune was supposed to slow down the iPods momentum till the Zune phone arrived.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjqnV1ozAKw&feature=related
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Apple makes money in hardware
Ken_z 16th Mar 2011
@Rick_K

So it must be MS that can't figure it out. The Zune was, IMHO, an effort to prove that MS can do better than Apple when it comes to MP3 players. It will be the same with the phone and the same with any new tablet.

Apple will make money from hardware and MS will continue to say that there is no money to be made in hardware.
@Rick_K
no money to be made in hardware??? i dont know but apple seems to raking in the cash, hmmm...
@Ken_z and rocketboy5114
This is Microsoft?s mantra. They do not want to invest the money into upgrading hardware, while it is much cheeper to just change lines of code. This is one reason the Zune is going away, and they choose to let OEMs build the Zunephone.
@Captiosus What is even more amusing is the title. Clearly the most important Windows developer is (drum roll) Microsoft. No, not because they wrote Windows. They are the company behind Office (the second most important software suite on Windows) and Visual Studio (the most important software suite on Windows). Zune, iPod? Hardly strategic are they?
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WP7 is on track to sell more units than all Zunes, and every WP7 phone is a Zune player.
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@HalfAKilo The number of sold Zunes is pathetic.
@HalfAKilo

Hate to say it, but I'd guess the 10 year old kid down the street sold more glasses of lemon-aid than all Zunes...
@HalfAKilo
"WP7 is on track to sell more units than all Zunes..." which is not really worth mentioning, because it will have zero impact on anything--cell phones or MS media/app sales.
@HalfAKilo Maybe I missed it but last I heard MS was only releasing the number of WP licenses that were sold to OEMs so where are you getting your info that they are on track to sell more? While it should sell more without actual sales figures (not channel stuffing) including WP7 and Zune HD we won't know.
wow, what dumbass logic you have there. your whole premise is that windows users killed the zune, however, what you faild to realize is that the zune isn't dead. it's not a device, it's a service/and client. it's on the PC, Xbox, and Windows phone.
@opinion!=fact

I would bet that with the combination of Zune on Xbox, Zune devices, Zune on WP7, and people using the Zune software without necessarily having a Zune device that Zune has as many users as the Macintosh computer platform. To my knowledge I don't know anyone that uses a Mac, but I know several people with Zunes, WP7 phones, and using Zune on XBox in some capacity, and I don't even live in a country where the Zune devices are available.

Zune is a group of services, not just a single device. But the Apple fanboy "logic" is such that they cannot comprehend the fact that other companies don't do things the same way as Apple. If it's not the Apple way, it's just wrong. They literally cannot comprehend that that is a stupid point of view.
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"Zune is a group of services..."
jacarter3 16th Mar 2011
@allusernamestaken

So is iTunes. Unfortunately for MS, Apple did design and sell a large set of hardware devices that depend almost entirely on that group of services. A lot of these are small and relatively inexpensive with large acceptance and profit margins.

I believe this article is pointing out that MS failed to do the same with their hardware offerings. Zune player? Maybe it seemed great to a limited market, but it's history now. Xbox? I wouldn't know as I don't play games but doubt that I would spend hours listening to music on home entertainment system from a game console when there are so many alternatives for streaming music from local music storage and internet streams. Win 7 phone? Again, I wouldn't know as I don't have one.

I don't even have a "smart" phone. Also I don't have any Apple products either - no iPad, iPod, iPhone or anything else that uses iTunes as I think iTunes is just a vehicle to lock consumers to Apple's platform.

As for a "smart" phone, I don't anticipate buying on of those anytime soon. I visited an old college buddy that has a senior position at Microsoft in their Mountain View offices and he showed me his Win 7 phone. It looked great but I could find no reason to buy one. He was quick to point out that it could sync with Exchange server. I had to tell him that my company would never permit that and the access to corporate email outside the intranet is the web based Exchange portal only. And other than a navigation service (I have a TomTom with lifetime map updates), we could find no other apps that would have any value to my lifestyle. My car won't start with any app, my thermostat and lights are all analog and would never be connected to a device on the Internet. And essentially, I don't trust the security of any smart phone OS, at least not yet.

So while Zune may be a group of services, it's nothing that I can access now or for the foreseeable future. That's why, for many people, it's as good as "dead."
I'm not a fanboi of any of the Greek gods in the hardware and software industry. I have iPod and I use Windows too. I use products because I like it and I'm happy with it not because I have some bias to a certain company. I think what's great about competition like in homes for sale and in home loan is the customers get to choose which suits them best. We should appreciate competition.

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