Unboxing Asia

Hana Stewart Smith

iPad trademark conflict escalates; call for Chinese import, export ban

By | February 14, 2012, 3:38am PST

Summary: Apple’s trademark dispute is poised to escalate, as Proview seeks a ban on imports and exports of iPad’s from Chinese customs.

The Proview vs. Apple trademark clash has escalated once more, with Proview making a request to Chinese customs to ban the imports and exports on Apple iPad 2 tablets.

Yesterday, it was reported that local authorities were seizing the tablets from retail stores in China, and that store-owners were hiding their stock to avoid confiscation.

Proview International Holdings is currently embroiled in a legal battle with Apple over the ‘iPad’ trademark, and is taking steps to block sales on the Chinese mainland.

A lawyer representing Proview, Roger Xie, said: “We are now working on a request to China customs to ban and seize all the import and export of the iPad products that have violated the trademark.”

Although this might seem like a bad situation for Apple, it is important to remember that China customs may decide against such drastic action because of Apple’s global profile.

Either way, the pressure is on Apple to reach a settlement. Foxconn Technology Group currently produces the iPad in China, and a ban on exports would be disastrous for Apple.

However, Beijing-based lawyer Stan Abrams is urging consumers not to panic. He explained that, “all the steps taken thus far, including a future customs action if it comes to that, are par for the course when it comes to trademark infringement.”

He also speculated that, even if Proview does choose to seize Apple shipments, they might not have “the financial wherewithal to put up the bond for a seizure.”

Proview has previously been open about its financial troubles, with chairman Yang Rongshang admitting in 2010 that it is “in big financial trouble and the trademarks are a valuable asset.”

The company has already filed trademark infringement complaints with at least 20 local government agencies to enforce the removal of iPad’s from stores.

Image source: Hebei Youth Daily/ifeng.com.

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Hana is three things -- small, British, and stranded in Tokyo.

Disclosure

Hana Stewart-Smith

Hana Stewart-Smith's mother is presently employed by IBM UK. No other existing or potential conflicts to report; this information will be updated whenever deemed necessary.

Biography

Hana Stewart-Smith

Hana is three things -- small, British, and stranded in Tokyo. After recognising that a degree in both English Literature and Film is, in fact, two parts unnecessary and useless, Hana decided that a change in pace was in order. With a lifelong passion for writing and a healthy fear/ fascination with technology, the next logical step was to move to Japan and surround herself with terrifying tech and a complete absence of the English language. She'll let you know how that venture works out.

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RE: iPad trademark conflict escalates; call for Chinese import, export ban
T-Wrench 14th Feb
@Pete "athynz" Athens
+1000000!

Perfect. Of course Todd will argue to the death, just like his alter ego NZ!
Ouch! That right there would hurt!
accusations about the oh-so-horrible working conditions at Foxconn and calls for an investigation.
@Peter Perry
Laughable really....but lets assume it plays out that way then all Apple will do is move manufacturing of the iPad to Foxconns Brazil plant so China authorities wil know they have actually lost out. In China all Apple will do is remove the iPad name from all marketting and documentation and still sell it. The Apple logo is trademarked and everyon eknows what it is because it will stillbe caled an IPad everywhere else. Proview will cave because they don't actually have a product called an iPad and settle or drop charges completely.
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Ironic
wolf_z 14th Feb
That the litigious Apple could be basically be largely out of business if Proview succeeds because Apple stole (see what I did there) Proview's trademark. Of course it won't come to that. Apple will pay millions, perhaps billions to settle if Proview has a strong enough hand.

By the way, infringement isn't theft, RIAA, MPAA...
@wolf_z

Now only if Apple had paid Proview to use the trademark...oh wait...
@jmiller1978
That will be up to a judge to determine.

Wait, you aren't just taking Apple's word on this one, are you? When someone being charged with murder and they say they didn't do it, do you also just believe them?

Apple has a lot of incentive to lie about this. A few billion reasons.
@NonZealot

"When someone being charged with murder and they say they didn't do it, do you also just believe them?"

Here in America, the justice system works on the principle of 'presumption of innocence.' Look it up.
@toddbottom

Lie about it? How is that going to help in court? Proview keeps asking for more and more. First Apple pays them to use it then Proview wants a settlement and an apology. They keep drawing the line in the sand to see how far they can squeeze them.
@jmiller1978
First, thank you for using my name. I will not respond to scum that won't address me by my name.

Second, you keep repeating exactly what Apple is telling you. Of course Apple is going to proclaim its innocence just like an accused murderer will proclaim their innocence, even if they did it. Some people of lesser intelligence might respond with claptrap about "presumption of innocence" but that has nothing to do with defendants lying. Of course the court has to begin any trial presuming that the defendant is innocent but that doesn't mean that the defendant isn't lying and it doesn't mean that the defendant can't eventually found to be guilty.

Is Apple lying about this? Could be. Does a court of law have to presume that Apple is innocent? Yes. Doesn't change any facts though. Apple could be lying. I wouldn't repeat what Apple states in their defense as being factual or even relevant. Of course Apple thinks they are innocent. Doesn't mean they aren't lying. Just like a murderer.
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@toddbottom

Its a curious lawsuit, Apple claims it bought the global trademark and yet Proview contends that doesn't include China (because it filed trademarks in China through a subsiduary), should be a simple enough check to look at what the contract actually says.

This could look very embarrassing for a lawyer that drew up the original contracts
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@the.nameless.drifter
toddbottom 14th Feb
I totally agree. The courts will decide this one. For anyone to simply believe Apple because they say they bought the rights to iPad in China is very naive and reeks of Apple fanboism.

It might be more accurate to state that Apple BELIEVES they purchased the rights to the name (although there is still the possibility that Apple is lying outright about this). Apple BELIEVING they purchased the name doesn't mean they did in which case Proview is absolutely and totally in the right to sue Apple.

A court will decide this one and whatever judgement the court issues is the only thing that determines who was right and who was wrong. I'll make a prediction right now though. If the court sides with Apple, the Apple fanbois will proclaim that this proves Apple was right all along. If the court sides with Proview, the Apple fanbois will whine that it wasn't fair, that Proview was wrong, that Apple was right, and that the court's judgement was flawed. Bookmark this post and if I'm wrong, I'll admit to it. I'm not wrong about this though.
@msalzberg

"Here in America, the justice system works on the principle of 'presumption of innocence.' Look it up."

But that doesn't mean the accused can go free without cross-examination.
@jmiller1978
Not true. Apple paid for use of the trademark in Taiwan but not Mainland China. They're two seperate legal system and entity.
Unless you're trying to argue Taiwan is a part of China (please don't. Just ask the UN and you'll know why.), you're wrong.
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@toddbottom

I think its also worth noting that Apple did this through a third party so its quite possible that the third party firm was sloppy when buying the rights from Proview

I can see Apple cutting a check to make this one go away, unless they are certain they can win and you can't be certain of anything in China, unless you're well connected with the communist party
@jmiller1978 I would be surprised if they hadn't. It's very stupid for a company to lie on something that can't be verified and Apple is not a stupid company.
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@Toddbottom
baggins_z 14th Feb
Because, of course, we all know that a judge in a Communist country is totally above reproach. Especially when dealing with a company, who, under heat from clueless Americans, is now calling for investigations of Foxconn.
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Thanks baggins
toddbottom 14th Feb
" If the court sides with Apple, the Apple fanbois will proclaim that this proves Apple was right all along. If the court sides with Proview, the Apple fanbois will whine that it wasn't fair, that Proview was wrong, that Apple was right, and that the court's judgement was flawed. "

My prediction has already been shown to be true and the judgement hasn't even been handed down yet. I love being right.
@samic

Who in their right mind considers Taiwan part of China?

@toddbottom

Not saying Apple is lying or not just stating that it seems that now that Proview seems to be in the courts favor, they keeping asking for more to see how much blood they can squeeze from the rock.

And people have to realize that an injunction against Apple would be counter-intuitive as it would likely hurt the Chinese economy as much as it would hurt Apple.
@toddybottom - or whatever you are calling yourself now - Proview has quite a bit of incentive to lie as well... like the fact they are bankrupt.

http://articles.businessinsider.com/2012-02-13/tech/31053973_1_ipad-apple-trademark-infringement

Wait, you aren't just taking Apple's word on this one, are you? When someone being charged with murder and they say they didn't do it, do you also just believe them?

You also forget the whole "innocent until proven guilty thing... then again since this is Apple they do not have the right to presume to be innocent until proven guilty. Right now Apple is being accused of trademark infringement they have NOT been proven guilty in a court of law. Cue the Double Standards.
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@Pete
toddbottom 14th Feb
"Right now Apple is being accused of trademark infringement they have NOT been proven guilty in a court of law."

Interesting how you yourself forget this advice whenever Apple has sued Samsung. Samsung's defense was that they didn't slavishly copy Apple yet you didn't believe them. You accused them of slavishly copying Apple. Whatever happened to your stance that you must believe 100% of everything a defendant states because they are presumed to be innocent? You don't believe 100% of what Samsung states, do you?

I think the problem is that you and other Apple fanbois don't understand what "presumption of innocence" means. It doesn't mean that you have to believe the defendant at all, it means that the burden of proof lies on the plaintiff. A defendant can lie about everything and other than perhaps facing perjury charges, can still be found to be innocent if the plaintiff cannot make their case. So it is not mutually exclusive to say that Apple is presumed innocent (until Proview makes their case) and that Apple is lying.

However, I don't actually believe Apple is "lying" in this case. They could be but they probably aren't. Apple BELIEVES that they bought the rights to the iPad trademark in China but could simply be mistaken. They would still be wrong though. That possibility still exists.

My point is that we shouldn't believe that Apple did buy the rights to the iPad trademark in China simply because Apple tells us they did. It will be up to Proview to prove to a court, with a preponderance of the evidence, that Apple is wrong. If Proview can't, then Apple wins because they are presumed to be innocent until proven guilty. However, just because we presume them to be innocent does not mean that we have to believe everything they say. It simply means that Apple doesn't have to prove their innocence to win, they only have to hope that Proview fails to prove their guilt.
@toddbottom Knowing that they will be selling the iPad everywhere I am pretty sure Apple (or any corporationg of even a fraction of Apples size) would have done its research. My guess is either Proview is in the wrong or its subsidiary is in the wrong. It is possible that the subsidiary lied about its authority to sign on behalf of its parent company and so the subsidiary could be in hot water. In the meantime Apple will sell the iPad in China simply without the name (the logo will suffice considering its worldwide popularity).
So Apple only bought rights to iPad trademark from them in Taiwan and 9 other countries. Probably thinking that iPads wouldn't ever be sold in China or Proview reserved the Trademark for their own use in China. They primarily make computer monitors, but they are also making smaller portable screens which are using their iPad Trademark. Which they've owned since 2000 in China and 2001 in Taiwan!

This appeal has devastating implications if Apple loses. It would be final decision without possibility of being appealed or redacted. It would mean that Proview could then have both export and import of any products baring "iPad" terminated. Apple better start building factories back here in the US! :DDD

btw... basically the Chinese version of Kodak. Although I have owned Proview products of decent quality (even available at Walmart) they have fallen on hard times and even if they produce a portable screen equivalent of iPad, they can't sell it outside of China. So.... join the iSue Party of Apple and Kodak!
@KronJohn

Or cut a check and buy Proview then sell of the rest of it.
@the.nameless.drifter Chinese Government already made the mistake once.... of allowing Foxconn (Taiwanese company) into China. I don't think Apple buying a Chinese company would be allowed now. It in effect takes the money/profits out of China's hands!

Proview has Apple over a barrel and is about to whack their peepee (iPad) really hard. If Proview gets the ban of exports and imports in Chinese Courts, they could force a damages settlement only (not buying rights) of more than a Billion Dollars and still be banned from selling iPads in China w/ an apology required by Proview to save face.

Legal experts are agreeing this could be a disaster in the making!
"There are two views we can take here. One view is, Apple was not sufficiently prudent and therefore, this was missed by Apple and its attorneys," said Elliot Papageorgiou, a partner and executive based in Shanghai at law firm Rouse Legal (China).

"A more charitable view would be that, Apple said that for business reasons we need to use this brand and as far as the name in China is concerned, let's cross the bridge when we come to it," he said.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/breaking/chi-apple-may-face-ipad-export-ban-in-china-trademark-fight-20120214,0,914050.story
@KronJohn
Maybe Apple should argue Taiwan (ROC) is a part of China (RPC) and see how Taiwan response?
@Samic Taiwan sees itself as a sovereign nation and Mainland China sees Taiwan as an errant canton. So, both governments would see any Taiwanese agreement with Apple as either not binding in the PRC or illegal and not binding in the PRC. So, any agreement with Taiwan is meaningless for the Main Land

Not a lawyer, just an observer of history and geopolitics.

Paul
Now we get to see how much 'guanxi' Apple, post Jobs, really has in P.R. China.
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Certain Apple fanbois (I won't name them, they know who they are) are insisting that we believe everything Apple says because they are the defendant and presumed innocent.

Interesting how those exact same fanbois presumed Samsung to be guilty when Apple sued them. And Nokia. And Motorola.

Poor Apple. Always the victim. Poor Apple. It's hard being the biggest, baddest, strongest, richest company in the world. Poor Apple. What a victim.
@toddybottom As usual you miss the point entirely. Why would Apple knowingly lie about something that can be easily disproven? There is however the presumption of innocence or to put it in layman's terms "innocent until proven guilty. Until Apple is proven guilty in a court of law they are presumed to be innocent. They could be guilty.

You bring up Samsung like it's some sort of legitimate example - referring to the lawsuit over the original Galaxy Tab 10 - and yet there is photographic evidence that shows that the Galaxy Tab is indeed a carbon copy of the iPad from the device itself to the USB cord to the A/C adapter to the very packaging... hell Samsung even used Apple App (Apple CORE App no less) logos in their promotional materials for the Galaxy Tab 10. Plus Samsung redesigned the Galaxy Tab 10! An innocent company does not redesign a product that is called into question like the Tab 10 was. Nor could Samsung's own lawyers positively identify the Tab when it was held next to an iPad during court proceedings... from 10 feet away!

Interesting how those exact same fanbois presumed Samsung to be guilty when Apple sued them. And Nokia. And Motorola.

Interesting how you presume Apple to be guilty when anyone sues Apple. Cue the Double Standards!
@Pete "athynz" Athens
It caught me attention that everytime you seems to use the same "10 feets" arguement when you accuse Samsung's table design.

It's really easy to refute, really:

1) The lawyer, Kathleen Sullivan, could have a bad eyesight. Do you have problem with lawyer who has bad eyesight? And it's just one lawyer, the other lawyer can identify from the Team:
http://allthingsd.com/20111013/how-do-you-tell-the-difference-between-an-ipad-and-a-galaxy-tab-dont-ask-samsungs-lawyers/

2) They both have a very generic design. Can you identify a "Brand A" manila envelope with a "Brand A" manila envelope from 10 feet?

3) She just didn't very good laywering at the moment. As a matter of fact, she probably couldn't tell the Samsung Picture frame from the tablet:
http://www.dailytech.com/EDITORIAL+Apples+Patent+Didnt+Look+Much+Like+the+iPad++or+Samsung+Tab+101/article22685.htm

Yeah I know Apple fanbois argued the back of the Samsung Picture frame from 2006 looks nothing like iPad. You know what else looks nothing like the back of the iPad? Galaxy Tab 10.1!

Just ask the Judge turn the unit around and it'll be easily tell which one is which.
@Pete "athynz" Athens
"Interesting how you presume Apple to be guilty when anyone sues Apple."

Where did I say I presume them to be guilty? Look above for a longer, more detailed rebuttal of your post but for here, all I'll say is that I believe the burden of proof is on Proview to prove Apple guilty which is all that "presumption of innocence" means. It does not mean we have to believe everything the defendant says. Like you hypocritically pointed out, you don't believe everything Samsung says. Why are you assuming Samsung is guilty? In fact, even worse for you, Samsung is more often than not being found not guilty.

So I don't presume Apple to be guilty. Apple may have purchased the rights to the iPad trademark in China. However, I don't believe Apple did simply because they say they did. They could be lying or, more likely, they could be mistaken.

Please Pete, stop embarrassing yourself and learn what "presumption of innocence" means. You aren't using it correctly in this case. It doesn't mean we have to believe that a) Apple is telling the truth and b) Apple hasn't made any mistakes in interpreting the contracts they signed. It simply means that the burden of proof lies on Proview and not on Apple. In fact, a judge can believe Apple to be guilty but still find Apple innocent if the judge does not believe that Proview proved their case.
@Pete "athynz" Athens
+1000000!

Perfect. Of course Todd will argue to the death, just like his alter ego NZ!
Awwww.....POOR APPLE!!!!! Lol, maybe they aren't the shining example of integrity-laced capitalism you all thought they were. I don't know why the Chinese would be upset though, doesn't their government block all the cool apps/features they would want to use anyway?? Shouldn't be such a big deal for them.
I am praying for Proview to succeed
@AdnanPirota Yes, wouldn't it be great if another American giant fell? I'm sure the economy wouldn't mind.
@themarty
Who says this would cause Apple to fall? Are "#1 in the world" and "bankrupt" the only 2 options for a company? There is nothing in the middle?

Actually, I can't even see this knocking Apple out of #1, even if Proview does win.

Curious though how you felt about MS, the DoJ, and the EU? Were you all about defending the mighty American company while it was being attacked by the Europeans?
@toddbottom I didn't want MS to lose. I like all tech and work with Apple, Windows and Linux all day. There are weaknesses and strengths in all products. I preferred MS under Gates.
Apple should manufacture the devices IN the USA
or do some landscaping, or build you a fence, you should hire the most expensive contractor, mechanic, etc. you can. Otherwise, you're just a greedy S.O.B. keeping Americans from having high-paying jobs.
@baggins_z Actually I DO use American labor whenever possible - more often than not MY own labor.
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If this happens...
Zorched 14th Feb
...maybe Apple will bring production back to the U.S. and pluck two thorns in one move.
Okay, when we stop laughing, move along. Nothing to see here.
the quantity of iPads, iPhones, etc. Apple needs to manufacture, your dreams of Unicorns notwithstanding.
Well if you guys already sold all your Apple stock at this morning's bell, then you should have made out quite well happy
Meh - all Apple has to do is change the name to something else catchy and it's done. What really needs to happen is we need to stop giving our money to China. Nuff said...
Proview should borrow the money from Samsung. I'm sure they are rolling all over the floors laughing at this one.
@trust2112@...

You sure do know that Proview and Samsung are actually competitors?
After Apple banned other companies products,that make me laugh.

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