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Clean install with Windows 7 upgrade media? Get the facts!

By | November 2, 2009, 10:13am PST

Summary: If you purchase a discounted upgrade edition of Windows 7, can you use it to perform a clean installation of the operating system on a PC that doesn’t currently have Windows installed? The answer, it turns out, is really quite simple. I’ve broken down the license agreement and have specific answers for upgraders. If you own a Mac or plan to dual-boot, I’ve got the answers you need.

Special Report: Windows 7

Last week I complained about Microsoft’s shoddy documentation of how its upgrade procedures are supposed to work. I’m delighted to report that I got a tremendous and immediate response from within Microsoft, offering assistance in my testing and also promising to clean up and expand their documentation. I spent most of the weekend working on a table that I’ll publish later this week. I’m also testing various upgrade scenarios to see which ones work and which require a workaround.

Meanwhile, an argument that should have died ages ago has reared its head again. If you purchase a discounted upgrade edition of Windows 7, can you use it to perform a clean installation of the operating system on a PC that doesn’t currently have Windows installed?

The answer is really simple. If you qualify for an upgrade license, then yes, you can use any number of workarounds to install the operating system legally. If you don’t qualify for an upgrade license, then those same workarounds might technically succeed, but your license is not valid. Will you get away with it? Probably. But if you’re running a business, you run the risk that an employee will turn you in to the Business Software Alliance, which could lead to an audit, civil charges, and eventually some stiff penalties.

Let me see if I can help uncomplicate things.

The overwhelming majority of PCs are sold with Windows preinstalled by an Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM). The rules are in the license agreement that you see when you first turn on that PC. You can find any license agreement for Windows (retail or OEM) at the Microsoft Software License Terms page. If you read the retail and OEM license agreements, you will see that there is absolutely no requirement to install the software in a specific way. Here, for example, are the details from the OEM license agreement for Windows Vista Home Basic/Home Premium/Ultimate. I have used bold type to emphasize key terms.

 

Section 2: “The software license is permanently assigned to the device with which you acquired the software. That device is the ‘licensed device.’ A hardware partition is considered to be a separate device.”

[In Windows 7, the language is slightly clearer: "The software license is permanently assigned to the computer with which the software is distributed. That computer is the 'licensed computer.'"]

Section 13: “To use upgrade software, you must first be licensed for the software that is eligible for the upgrade.” [This identical language appears in Section 14 of the Windows 7 license.]

Section 14: “Proof of License:  If you acquired the software on a device, or on a disc or other media, a genuine Microsoft Certificate of Authenticity label with a genuine copy of the software identifies licensed software. To be valid, this label must be affixed to the device or appear on the manufacturer’s or installer’s packaging. If you receive the label separately, it is invalid. You should keep label on the device or the packaging that has the label on it to prove that you are licensed to use the software. If the device comes with more than one genuine Certificate of Authenticity label, you may use each version of the software identified on those labels.” [This text appears in the Windows 7 license in Section 16, with the word "device" replaced by the word "computer."]

That sticker on the PC is the proof of your original full license, the one that qualifies you for the discounted upgrade to a new version. There is NO requirement in the license agreement or elsewhere that the qualifying software be installed first for the upgrade to be valid.

Finally, there’s the question of what older Windows versions qualify for an upgrade to Windows 7. The answer is on the retail upgrade box: “All editions of Windows XP and Windows Vista qualify you to upgrade. … If you are upgrading from Windows XP, you will need to back up your files and settings, perform a clean install and then re-install your existing files, settings, and programs.”

Here’s a picture. Note that it specifically says “clean install,” not “custom install.”

So what are the rules? Let’s break it down by some specific situations:

You originally purchased a PC with a copy of Windows XP or Windows Vista. You qualify for an upgrade on that specific PC. Any version of XP or Vista qualifies for an upgrade to any version of Windows 7. So if you bought a Dell in 2007 with Windows XP Home preinstalled, you can buy a retail upgrade of Windows XP Professional and install it on that PC. This is true even if along the way you wiped the hard disk clean and installed a beta of Windows 7. The license for Windows XP was permanently assigned to that machine when you first turned it on and accepted the license agreement. The fact that the original operating system isn’t currently installed on the PC is irrelevant.

You just bought a brand-new Mac and you want to use Boot Camp to install Windows 7 on it. You do not qualify for an upgrade license. Apple didn’t sell you a copy of Windows with your Mac, so there is no original Windows edition to qualify for an upgrade license. From a contractual point of view, you must purchase a full license to install in the Boot Camp partition.

You installed virtualization software on your PC or Mac and you want to run Windows 7 in a virtual machine. You do not qualify for an upgrade license. A virtual machine is considered a separate PC. In fact, Section 3(d) of the Windows 7 Professional license agreement makes this explicit: “Use with Virtualization Technologies. Instead of using the software directly on the licensed computer, you may install and use the software within only one virtual (or otherwise emulated) hardware system on the licensed computer.” Because there is no previously licensed version of Windows XP or Vista in your newly created virtual machine, you do not qualify for an upgrade. The exception, of coufrse, is Windows XP Mode in Windows 7 Professional and higher.

You have Windows XP or Windows Vista on your current PC and you want to use Windows 7 on a separate partition as a dual-boot machine. You do not qualify for an upgrade license. Refer back to the previous wording in Section 2 about a hardware partition being a separate device. The Windows 7 license agreement covers this in Section 14: “Upon upgrade, this agreement takes the place of the agreement for the software you upgraded from. After you upgrade, you may no longer use the software you upgraded from.

You built your own PC from parts and you want to install Windows 7 on it. You do not qualify for an upgrade license. You need a full retail license. (You can also use a System Builder OEM license, but that’s a separate issue I’ll cover later.)

As I said earlier, this stuff is irrelevant to most people. If you buy a new PC with Windows on it from a legit dealer, you don’t have to think twice about licensing. If you buy a retail upgrade and install it on your system that’s currently running XP or Vista, you also have no hassles except those associated with upgrading.

The real people this information applies to are two groups: PC experts who support other PC users or want ultimate control over their own PCs, and people trying to get a bargain. For either group, it pays to understand the rules.

For more on the whole messy licensing issue, see What Microsoft won’t tell you about Windows 7 licensing and Is it OK to use OEM Windows on your own PC? Don’t ask Microsoft.

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Topics

Ed Bott is an award-winning technology writer with more than two decades' experience writing for mainstream media outlets and online publications.

Disclosure

Ed Bott

Ed Bott is a freelance technical journalist and book author. All work that Ed does is on a contractual basis.

Since 1994, Ed has written more than 25 books about Microsoft Windows and Office. Along with various co-authors, Ed is completely responsible for the content of the books he writes. As a key part of his contractual relationship with publishers, he gives them permission to print and distribute the content he writes and to pay him a royalty based on the actual sales of those books. Ed's books written prior to fall 2011 have been distributed by Que Publishing (a division of Pearson Education) and by Microsoft Press. As of November 2011, Ed is a partner in the independent publishing company Fair Trade Digital Exchange, which exclusively publishes his books.

On occasion, Ed accepts consulting assignments. In recent years, he has worked as an expert witness in cases where his experience and knowledge of Microsoft and Microsoft Windows have been useful. In each such case, his compensation is on an hourly basis, and he is hired as a witness, not an advocate.

Ed does not own stock or have any other financial interest in Microsoft or any other software company. He owns 500 shares of stock in EMC Corporation, which was purchased before the company's acquisition of VMware. In addition, he owns 350 shares of stock in Intel Corporation, purchased more than two years ago. All stocks are held in retirement accounts for long-term growth.

Ed does not accept gifts from companies he covers. All hardware products he writes about are purchased with his own funds or are review units covered under formal loan agreements and are returned after the review is complete.

Biography

Ed Bott

Ed Bott is an award-winning technology writer with more than two decades' experience writing for mainstream media outlets and online publications. He's served as editor of the U.S. edition of PC Computing and managing editor of PC World; both publications had monthly paid circulation in excess of 1 million during his tenure. He is the author of more than 25 books on Microsoft Windows and Office, including the recently released Windows 7 Inside Out.

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Windows 7 32 vs 64bit
jeep002@... 2nd Feb 2011
I would like to go from XP on my 32bit laptop to Windows 7 but at the same time, I would like someday to move into a 64bit laptop and move my Windows 7 license to the new unit. Can this be done and if so, what Windows 7 license do I need?
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Unbelievable
Economister 2nd Nov 2009
"Last week I complained about Microsoft?s shoddy documentation of how its upgrade procedures are supposed to work. I?m delighted to report that I got a tremendous and immediate response from within Microsoft, offering assistance in my testing and also promising to clean up and expand their documentation."

So what exactly did all these Microsofties do in preparation for the W7 launch? Did W7 code receive the same attention to detail. Not encouraging at all. Somebody should get fired.
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Contributr
Win licensing is a mess ...
Adrian Kingsley-Hughes 2nd Nov 2009
I agree with you here Ed, but I'm left wondering one thing.

If the licensing says that "there is absolutely no requirement to install the software in a specific way" and if the difference between retail and upgrade is down to the product key (and I agree with you that it is), why, technically, do users have to resort to workarounds like the double-install to put upgrade media on a clean system? Either it's allowable, or not. Why are users faced with a hurdle in order to exercise their rights?
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Use case?
BrandonLive 2nd Nov 2009
Personally... I'm not sure I see what the fuss is about. What's the use case for installing an upgrade product key onto a completely clean machine? If you're buying an upgrade then it's assumed you already have a PC running Windows. You can do a clean install if you want, that's fine - the installer supports that (that's how XP users can use Upgrade discs). It just verifies during install that one of your disks / partitions already has a licensed copy of Windows.

If your machine is completely void of any OS then it's arguable that you don't qualify for an upgrade. If there's an extremely specific case where this might possibly happen and you ARE properly licensed, it's so far beyond "niche" that's it's pretty silly to expect the packaging to acccount for it. If you get into this situation and the key doesn't work, I bet you can call support and get it straightened out. Either that, or you know what you're doing enough to not care about having to do some kind of workaround.

Just my two cents.
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Contributr
OK, case example ...
Adrian Kingsley-Hughes 2nd Nov 2009
Hosed HD ... does happen ... often in fact.

"If your machine is completely void of any OS then it's arguable that you don't qualify for an upgrade ... "

Really? Where there written then?

"it's so far beyond "niche" that's it's pretty silly to expect the packaging to acccount for it"

I'm not talking packaging, I'm talking product key working with the OS. Fundamentally, what the end user is paying for.
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Excuse me. Mr Writer
sjbinaz 2nd Nov 2009
What is meant by "Where there written then?"
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Hosed HD = call support
BrandonLive 2nd Nov 2009
For most people, a dead hard drive means taking their computer to a store or RMA'ing it. Right?

Maybe this isn't ideal for the tiny niche who build their own computers (then do an upgrade, then have a drive die) or who just replace the broken drive themselves... but I'll hazard a guess that a phone call to support during activation is all you'd need.

I'm just surprised this is a big deal now. Isn't this how most upgrade software works? Heck, isn't this *more friendly* to these situations than other software upgrades (where "install the old version first" is the only solution)?

I'm not saying this niche couldn't be better served... I'm just questioning the applicability of these concerns to the vast majority of upgrade purchasers and the level of inconvenience caused which seems minimal.

Again, just my two cents.
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Call to support won't help...
wright_is 3rd Nov 2009
When the DVD refuses to install, because the HD is blank...

It would be a complete pain to have to install XP or Vista - especially if the drive is a SATA and XP refuses to recognise it, so you have to go and either make a slipstream CD or find a floppy disk and a floppy drive to allow XP to load the SATA driver to recognise the HD...

I had that problem, when I made a legacy free PC back in 2004. I tried a USB floppy drive, from a friend, but XP found the driver, then reset the USB bus before loading it! Then complained the driver wasn't available.

In the end, I went back the shop that sold me the PC and borrowed a floppy drive to install XP.

I wouldn't want to go through that again, just so I can then install Windows 7 directly over it!

RMA the hard drive? A 5 year old HD can't normally be RMAed, it just needs to be replaced...
My fairly new system's hard disk just crashed, so I figuired why not put in a new hard disk and install Windows 7. Easy right? Maybe not. After installing a new blank drive and booting the system with the Win7 disk in the DVD drive it started to install like normal, went about 20 min. and then asked for the New Product key. I input the new product key and it told me that it was invalid. I re-typed the key several times and got the same message. No-where in the install process did it ask for an old "Product Key" or to put in a "Qualifying Product Disk" as other Upgrades have done. Now what?
I grabed my XP recovery CD for this computer and installed the old XP OS on to my new drive. I installed the XP drivers for the MB, video, sound, and the nic. I thought this would give Win7 upgrade a place to start.
I dropped in the Win7 dvd and rebooted.
The upgrade went without a hitch after this.
Conclusion:
You need an OS on the Hard drive for it to work.
You can't really do a "Cean install"
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RE: OK, case example
rkwalters@... 3rd Nov 2009
What constitutes a OEM machine? I have in the past added new graphics cards to a purchased system. Then a bit later had to replace the HD. Somewhere down the road the motherboard took a downward spiral.

So no all that is left of this particular computer is the DVD and case. So I have to ask at what point is the system no longer a OEM system? Along those lines is it right to require a new license because the hardware failed?

There should be a guideline somewhere, The point is I didn't use an upgrade media on a system that did not originaly have one. Am I responsible to purchase a new license because of hardware failures? That seems a bit over the top at least to me.
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Typically the motherboard
bobiroc 3rd Nov 2009
but I thought I read somewhere if you swapped out multiple parts at one time like a video card and sound card and hard drive at one time it could trip activation. In my experience it always has been the motherboard as the ultimate determining factor.
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agreed but
rkwalters@... 3rd Nov 2009
I agree, but in the past when I called MS support they gave me a new key because I had to replace the MB. There was never a question from them at the time as to whether that broke the OEM license stipulations.
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Contributr
The motherboard
Ed Bott 3rd Nov 2009
You can replace any hardware except the motherboard without affecting your license.

The motherboard is the heart of the machine. If it breaks, you can get an identical (or equivalent) replacement from the manufacturer and the license is inteact. If you replace with an upgrade or the mfr will not supply an equivalent replacement (because you are out of warranty, for example), you need a new license.
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Motherboard replacement
emmetsolomon@... 4th Nov 2009
The update notification bar stated that my motherboard BIOS should be updated or I should buy a new motherboard to match the CPU (Q6600). If I do this, how can I re-register Windows 7?
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Motherboard replacement
jpdemers@... 4th Nov 2009
Windows takes notes on the hardware when it's first activated, and applies some secret formula to decide when there have been "too many changes" to your hardware. Just installing new drivers, new boards, overclocking the processor or flashing the BIOS can trip the wire. A new processor virtually guarantees a re-validation.

In practice, MS doesn't ask what board or processor you've installed. You call, they take your word for it that you replaced the CPU or whatever, and they give you a new activation key. (I imagine you can do this only two or three times ... but who knows?) So, although the official policy is harsh, in reality they cut you a lot of slack. You could probably replace all of the guts inside the case, and still get Windows re-activated. This seems fair to me -- it's not as if the original installation was still running on another machine.
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Contributr
Read the comments in this post from Global Partner Experience Lead Eric Ligman:

http://blogs.msdn.com/mssmallbiz/archive/2008/04/11/8380757.aspx

Reader comment:
Consider: two years ago you bought a new Dell with Windows XP Pro preinstalled. Yesterday, you bought a Vista Business upgrade for the same system. But: you would prefer to do a fresh install rather than upgrade. This is both 1) legitimate, and 2) permitted, isn't it? You did, after all, buy XP Pro and then the Vista Business upgrade, the latter giving you the right to run Vista Business on the system you previously ran XP Pro on, yes?

Eric answers:

@ Fredrik - Yes, if you have the full Windows XP Pro license and then purchase the Windows Vista Business Upgrade for that PC, you can choose to do a full install from the Vista disk vs. performing an in-place upgrade install. This is why we have this on the disk.

And still later in that comment thread, another read comments:

I own 2 copies of Vista Ultimate, the first one of which I purchased as an Upgrade. I can tell you this: after being FORCED to install my copy of XP first, after I had already formatted my computer not knowing that Vista required an OS to be installed, I WAS INFURIATED! I had very little time left that day due to grad school and was prepared to return my copy to the store I bought it at, and would have FOUGHT THEM UNTIL THEY TOOK IT BACK... else I would have canceled payment on my credit card.

THE ONLY THING THAT SAVED MY PURCHASE WAS THE FACT THAT THE WORK AROUND EXISTS. AND EVEN STILL, I am not happy that you have to install it twice to do this.

To which Eric replies:

@ Josh - You mentioned you have a previous Windows O/S license that you are upgrading from. As such, using the upgrade to do your install is fine since you own a qualifying license to upgrade from. My comments on it not being legal are for those who do not own the previous version license first.

Shall I go on?
I know somebody who has Vista on their machine already and would like to pick the Custom option and do a clean install using the upgrade version.

Does the upgrade detect the version of Vista first, then allow you to format & erase the HD to prepare for Win7? In effect a clean install like from XP?

He already has his data files removed so he doesn't care if his Vista OS is fully erased or not. There's no programs or anything or anything on there he wants to save.
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That's how I did it.
wright_is 3rd Nov 2009
I had Vista Business 64-bit on the machine and got my W7 Pro 64-bit upgrade on Friday last week (free upgrade because the laptop was purchased in July).

Booted off the DVD, selected custom, selected reformat partition, installed.

The grey area is what happens if you erase the HD before starting the upgrade, or your HD trashes itself and you need to do a clean install with nothing on the drive...

Hopefully Ed's chart later this week will sort that out.
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Well what I'm wondering is...
Wintel BSOD 3rd Nov 2009
...if Win7 auto-detects that Vista installation FIRST before it then starts formatting & erasing the HD getting ready for the Win7 installation. If that's the case (and I assume that's the way it's done with an upgrade from XP), then everything's cool. Right?
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@UAC nanny screen
wright_is 3rd Nov 2009
That is what I assume. It checks that the installed version is elligable (Home->Home, Business/Ultimate->Pro, 32-Bit->32-Bit or 64-bit->64-bit), then reformats the drive and installs a clean copy.
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@UAC nanny screen
wright_is 3rd Nov 2009
Oops, just seen the reply from Ed... It only needs to check the version compatibility side of it for an in-place upgrade, so I would assume that, at most, it is checking to see if Vista or XP is installed on the disk.
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@ UAC
WarhavenSC 3rd Nov 2009
That's exactly what I did. With Vista x64 Business already installed, I did the digital download, burned a bootable disc, rebooted off the DVD, formatted my Vista drive during the setup, and then did a fresh install. Didn't have any problems with invalid keys or anything.

So, I think the key to avoiding the invalid serial number issue is to leave your current OS installed and format the disc during setup, don't format it before running setup. Otherwise, I believe your serial number will run into the problem Ed had.

Come to think of it, it's probably why the double-install works as well, as setup sees a "valid" copy of Windows already installed.
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@Warhaven
Wintel BSOD 3rd Nov 2009
So, I think the key to avoiding the invalid serial number issue is to leave your current OS installed and format the disc during setup, don't format it before running setup.

Good to know. Don't format the HD before setup. Just pick the Custom option and let Win7 do it's own thing.

Unless I'm missing something?
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Contributr
...
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Zero sense more like!
GOTBO 2nd Nov 2009
"It just verifies during install that one of your disks / partitions already has a licensed copy of Windows."

No it doesn't. If you do a clean install you have nothing on your disk at all so there's nothing to verify! There is no real difference between a full copy of Windows 7 and the upgrade, other than the price!
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I agree
Cylon Centurion 2nd Nov 2009
Yet another one of Microsoft's fallacies.


They really need someone to lay out in stone what is expected with upgrades.
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Win 7
nimrod666 3rd Nov 2009
Win 7 is a mess. It will not support my Netgear wireless internet and also the drivers will not run for Realtek ethernet card built into my motherboard. I would suggest that you wait for SP1. The best I can figure out is I just paid a lot of money for a Vista update at best or a new Vista at worst. I am going back to XP until they get it working.
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Win 7 drivers
Budster1 3rd Nov 2009
Jeez ! Just install the Vista drivers for these items, it's not rocket science ! Quit whining and use your head. If there are no Vista drivers then install them with the compatability wizard or replace your hardware, it's to old.
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Contributr
Engineering and sales and legal
Ed Bott 2nd Nov 2009
There was tremendous attention paid to detail in the engineering process of developing and testing Windows 7.

The license agreements and retail box copy come from different groups, which clearly were not as well prepared and did not engage with customers as well.
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Contributr
I agree ...
Adrian Kingsley-Hughes 2nd Nov 2009
... but people who have paid for a product legitimately need confidence int he legality of what they're doing. Otherwise we can take the whole thing with a grain of salt and abandon all reason. There's plenty of jargon and legalese in the EULA, and if it doesn't say what MS wants it to say, it needs changing. Period. Licensing is enough of a mess without having to resort to voodoo and mediums to try to figure it all out.
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Contributr
You're preaching to the choir
Ed Bott 2nd Nov 2009
This is what I've been writing about for years, Adrian.
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Contributr
Problem is ...
Adrian Kingsley-Hughes 2nd Nov 2009
... it's getting worse all the time ...
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Contributr
Actually, no
Ed Bott 2nd Nov 2009
There are several significant improvements in this edition of Windows.

Licensing and installation procedures are still far from perfect, and there is lots of room for improvement, but to say "it is getting worse all the time" is wrong and unsupported by any facts.

I have done a ton of testing. I will post on it later. I prefer to actually have details in hand rather than just rant, which is why it is taking some time.
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From a consumer perspective...
CounterEthicsCommissioner-23034636492738337469105860790963 2nd Nov 2009
I can safely say that things are more confusing now than before.
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Contributr
The issue here isn't testing ...
Adrian Kingsley-Hughes 2nd Nov 2009
... it's the gulf between the license agreement that the users HAS to agree to in order to be able to install the software, and the technical limitations on how the software can be installed. The detail in question here is the EULA, not what's possible.
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Here is where MS could take a cue from Apple
Snooki_smoosh_smoosh 2nd Nov 2009
One version, with nominal upgrade, that will reinstall the OS without a headache. Or it boils down to, want to upgrade? buy new hardware with the OEM license included, otherwise face the wrath of the BSA... Ernie Ball anyone?...
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... not MS, that would have to take the que from Apple. IBM made the "mistake" (if you wish to label it as such) by not totally propriotizing its PC system, so that, like Apple, you cannot buy a personal computer without the manufacturer's designated OS installed.

That may change ... if Pystar ever succeeds in beating Apple's lawyers. I guess you can "legally" buy the Apple upgrade to Snow Leopard, and install it on the Pystar.
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I understand that
Economister 2nd Nov 2009
releasing a large OS is not a trivial undertaking. MS has however done this at least 6 times before, and any project manager worth his salt will understand the need for coordination between the different groups involved. That is pretty elementary. Like I said, if it is as bad as you indicate, I would have fired somebody. Period.
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Contributr
Perhaps
Ed Bott 2nd Nov 2009
I'm more concerned with getting it fixed than with randomly punishing people.

Calling for firing someone ids emotionally satisfying but ultimately doesn't solve the problem. It sounds like the team that did this needs some management attention.
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Contributr
Good point!
Adrian Kingsley-Hughes 2nd Nov 2009
... that said, wasting people's time with double-installs is little more than punishing people.
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RE: Perhaps......needs some management attention.
fatman65535 Updated - 2nd Nov 2009
Here is MY idea of management attention:

A size 13 boot implanted where the sun does not shine!!
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Give them the money
bruceslog Updated - 3rd Nov 2009
One thing that I am not liking is if I go the upgrade path, I lose my Win XP license that I'd paid for.

For example, when I go to upgrade my desktop that is running a fully licensed copy of Win XP Pro, and I upgrade/replace that with a Windows 7 upgrade disc, then the Win XP Pro license is no longer good for anything, according to Microsoft.
( Although I have to keep the XP sticker around in case I have to someday prove that I was eligible for the Win7 upgrade in the first place ).
I realize that the Win7 upgrade was $70.00 cheaper than a full retail Win7 purchase. BUT, for saving that $70.00, I just trashed my fully paid for $ 199.00 Win XP Pro license. I can't use it again, even if I decide to go back to Win XP Pro, or even if I want to try to resurrect an old machine with my Win XP Pro software.
Or even if I want to use that license for Win 7 Virtual machine !?

In essence, I have now paid Microsoft $ 319.00 for a Upgrade copy of a Win7 Premium license.
( $ 199.00 for my Win XP Pro license, which is now trash, plus $120.00 for the Win7 " Upgrade" license ).

Seems like buying full retail is a better deal.

$ 199.00 lost to trash my Win XP Pro license PLUS another $ 120.00 to Upgrade to Win 7. I just can't get over that.
That is actually an expensive upgrade.

So, I think I'll buy a full retail copy of Win 7, knowing that the $ 70.00 difference between the full Win7 Premium and the Win 7 upgrade disk will let me KEEP my $ 199.00 Win XP Pro license that I now own.

And that $ 70.00 difference gives me 2 Operating systems instead of one.
( Just so I don't lose anyone here, I will have one full retail copy of Win7 Premium, as well as the Win XP Pro that I already own ).
I think that is worth the extra $ 70.00.

Of course, for anyone who is sure that they will never again have any use for their Win XP or Vista OS, this won't be an issue. And the upgrade would be a fine way to go, albeit kind of expensive when you consider that you are trashing a good copy of Win XP.

Myself, I like to keep what I've already paid for ( my Win XP Pro license ).
And if, in the future, Microsoft ends up putting some nasty DRM or other restrictions on Win 7 in the future, ( with SP3 and lots of lobby money from name your group here, for instance ), then I'll always be able to fall back to my Win XP OS and license, since it should still be a valid license.
Unless they change that too.

Also, I understand that Win 7 Virtual machine requires a Win XP license ?
As mentioned, I have one now.
But If I UPGRADE to Win 7, Microsoft is saying that my XP license is no good now because trashed it when I upgraded ?
Meaning that I would have to buy ANOTHER Win XP license to run in the Win 7 virtual machine ?
Costing me Another $199.00 for something that I already had ? ( a new $ 199.00 copy of Win XP ).

Not worth it.
Not when I can just pay $ 70.00 more now, for a full retail version of Win7 - and I get to Keep my current $ 199.00 XP license valid in the process.
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Just a little common sense...
bjbrock 2nd Nov 2009
will tell you which license you need to buy. If you own a legal license then you can upgrade it. What is so hard about that.
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Contributr
Some people lack common sense
Ed Bott 2nd Nov 2009
One very prominent publication as recently as last year strongly encouraged its readers to "save $100 or more" by using retail upgrades with a new PC. They explicitly argued that this "Vista upgrade secret" was perfectly legal and the fact that Microsoft didn't block it meant that they didn't care if you did it.

It was an idiotic argument then and now, but this particular publication stuck to its guns despite being told repeatedly that they were full of crap.

I wrote about it back in 2008:

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=420
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Phrase of the Century! nt
TheBottomLineIsAllThatMatters 2nd Nov 2009
nt
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Common Sense
M.R. Kennedy 2nd Nov 2009
"Common sense" is an oxymoron. Robert Heinlein once said, "Sense is not common", and he was absolutely accurate in that statement. It's not that *some* people don't have common sense, it's that *most* people don't have it.

As for installing an "upgrade" version of Windows 7... Using my superior reasoning powers (Hah!), I'm morally certain that the copy I have and intend to install on my computer is perfectly legal, in all definitions and interpretations of the Windows 7 EULA.

I think. wink

The machine in question was built from parts, with assistance and inspiration taken from one of the departed George Ou's articles. (Thanks again, George!) Its original OS was a System Builder copy of WinXP MCE 2005.

Since then, the machine has received full retail installations (in dual boot configuration) of Vista Business 32-bit, Vista Ultimate 32-bit, Vista Ultimate 64-bit, and the 64-bit Windows7 Ultimate Beta 1 release. During that time, I have never paid attention as to which of the two, identical 250GB HDDs any or all of the above OSes were installed on, excepting only that at least one of the preceeding OS versions remained on the other HDD. I do know that both of the Vista Ultimate installations were placed on the same drive, the second one being a completely clean one, with the drive being reformatted.

I believe all of that is irrelevant, as I still have the System Builder copy of XP MCE. That in itself, as being the *original* OS on the machine, is proof that my Win7 Professional installation (again, as a "clean" install) will be absolutely legal.

Right?
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Contributr
IMO, you are legal
Ed Bott 2nd Nov 2009
Your original license was installed with a full OEM copy. Every upgrade after that was valid, IMO. I agree with your interpretation.
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NOPE
Jkirk3279 2nd Nov 2009
"at least one of the preceeding OS versions remained on the other HDD"


Nope, he's in violation. Call the Software Protection Nazis !

He kept a preceding OS on a separate HD. That constitutes a second PC.

Now, in my opinion you only have ONE computer, and you can only use
ONE license at a time anyway, and SHOULD be legit.

But hey, I'm a Mac User, what do I know? happy
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Nope
fasthair 2nd Nov 2009
Since all of the OP additional OS installs were done with Full Retail Versions they are allowed to run as many different OS/partitions in any one given machine they wants. It is only when you use an Upgrade version are you no longer allowed to use the old OS you used to upgrade from.

fasthair
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"Nope" back atcha!
M.R. Kennedy 2nd Nov 2009
Maybe I wasn't clear enough. And I did leave out one irrelevant detail. Here goes:

XP MCE was the *original* OS installed on my homebuilt machine.

This is what I left out: Vista Business was installed in dual-boot format on the machine's second HDD. Unfortunately, I misread the over-long list of possible versions during the initial install, and inadvertently chose the EU Vista Business package. After activating it, I realized my mistake and contacted Microsoft. They gave me a new license key and allowed me to install the US version of Business on top of (clean install, rather) the *original* XP MCE installation, provided that I wiped the EU version. I did so.

Later on, a good friend acquired a copy of Vista Ultimate for me at a greatly reduced price. I installed it, again as dual-boot, on the now-empty second HDD. It was later replaced by the 64-bit version of the *same retail Ultimate package* (using the same product key, which is legal) when I boosted the system RAM to 8GB.

Earlier this year, I installed the Win7 Beta 1 release (clean install) on the HDD which had Vista Business on it, again in dual-boot form. Since this was only for testing purposes, Vista Ultimate was still the default bootable OS.

I intend to replace (clean install) the Beta 1 installation of Win7 with the Upgrade Win7 Professonal copy that I purchased from Microsoft, and I intend to keep Vista Ultimate for the time being. My XP MCE discs And CoA are my "out", with Vista Business as the backup, in case there are any sticky legal questions.

Clear enough now?
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I'm actually covered three different ways
M.R. Kennedy 2nd Nov 2009
Unless Microsoft really wanted to squeeze me over the *original* OS installed on the machine, I'm actually covered by a legally-obtained (through MS) copy of Vista Business. And if I wanted to, I could install the Win7 Professional Upgrade (as a "clean" installation) on my full-retail Vista Ultimate volume.

But I used the System Builder XP MCE as the example for an upgrade on what is ostensibly an OEM machine where the original OS was no longer installed. Not that it's a unique situation, but certainly far less than common.
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Windows 7 32 vs 64bit
jeep002@... 2nd Feb 2011
I would like to go from XP on my 32bit laptop to Windows 7 but at the same time, I would like someday to move into a 64bit laptop and move my Windows 7 license to the new unit. Can this be done and if so, what Windows 7 license do I need?

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