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Extendergate: What an obscure hardware glitch says about Microsoft's future

By | November 7, 2010, 2:20pm PST

Summary: A few days ago, some Windows Media Center enthusiasts got a rude shock, as Linksys extender devices suddenly stopped working. What’s wrong? And what does it say about the health of the Windows ecosystem?

Update 9-Nov: See comment from Cisco at end of post.

 A few days ago, some Windows Media Center enthusiasts got a rude shock, as Linksys DMA2100 and DMA2200 extender devices suddenly stopped working. I read initial reports of this issue on Friday and confirmed earlier today that my Linksys extender was displaying the same symptoms.

And I’m not alone: At Microsoft’s official Media Center support community, The Green Button, a forum discussion on the apparently widespread issue is now up to 19 23 pages.

The Extendergate issue affects a tiny but very vocal number of Media Center enthusiasts. I paid $250 or so for this exact device back around New Year’s 2008. It’s been in pretty much constant use since then without any problems. (Here’s my original review, and here are some detailed specs on how extenders differ from Media Center PCs.) The price of the DMA2100 was cut in half less than a year after it debuted and continued to drop steadily over succeeding months, but it didn’t matter. They just didn’t sell, nor did other similar devices from HP and D-Link. Those devices failed, and the OEMs bailed, because the Xbox 360 did the same functions and a lot more for not much more money. Today the Xbox 360 is the one and only surviving extender device for Windows Media Center.

I’m still studying the technical details of this issue (and waiting for input from Cisco, which owns the Linksys brand), but it looks like the current problem is caused by a poorly designed function in the extender device designed to automatically check for firmware updates. In the U.S. (although reportedly not in Europe), the update server is offline. The device is unable to contact the update server, a failure that cascades into a failure to connect to the Media Center PC. The result is a black screen from the DMA2100, whose job is to ”extend” the Media Center PC interface and stream its content to a TV and surround sound audio system in another room.

I’ve confirmed the problem on a Linksys DMA2100 here. I’ve also confirmed that the other pieces of the chain—the PC, TV, and network, and Windows Media Center itself—are all functioning properly. When I connected an HP-branded Media Center extender using the exact same cables that had been plugged into the Linksys device, the extender function worked perfectly.

The Green Button discussion thread contains what appears to be a reasonable, if slightly complicated workaround that involves disabling the Internet connection, setting a dummy DNS address for the extender, and then re-enabling the Internet connection after the PC and extender are reunited. I’m waiting to hear back from Cisco and will update as I get more information.

Dropping support for a discontinued device is understandable under some circumstances, especially if the device and others in its category have been around for five years or more. But these devices were still new and widely promoted as little as two years ago. They were designed to work with a core feature of Windows Vista and Windows 7, both of which are current and fully supported Microsoft products.

Cisco has a responsibility to fix this problem quickly. Microsoft needs to twist their arm and, if necessary, send in help. Third-party partnerships are as important as ever in the Windows ecosystem (just ask the makers of Windows Phone 7 devices and apps).

If this issue gets repaired promptly, it’s just an unfortunate technical glitch. If it lingers long enough, it joins a long list of similar ecosystem failures, like PlaysForSure devices, Spot watches, Windows Mobile 6.5, and (of course) the ill-fated Kin. Those failures add up to a lot of lost confidence over time, and Microsoft can ill afford anything that sows doubt and confusion at this point in its lifecycle.

Update 9-Nov: Cisco has apparently fixed the back-end issue that caused this outage. They have not issued any statement on the issue, however. My e-mail to a corporate contact went unanswered. My support ticket has not been responded to. The official @cisco_support Twitter alias opened a discussion thread that has also not received any response from Cisco support. 

Update 9-Nov 1:00 PM PST Cisco’s Director of Corporate Communications, Karen Sohl, sends the following comment:

Wanted to let you know the issue for the DMAs have been resolved and were back online yesterday.  This server was down as a part of a maintenance procedure Friday.  We encountered a reboot issue but were able to find and fix the issue.

We apologize for any inconvenience this has caused to our customers. 

Via a follow-up e-mail, I askedCan you tell me what Cisco is doing to ensure that this situation doesn’t happen again? Do these products have an official end-of-life date after which they will not be supported at all?”

This response was immediate:

As far as ensuring this will never happen again - its hard to guarantee 100% - but our goal is have it working all the time.  Sometimes we and other companies run into unforeseen issues - but we do the best we can to fix quickly and get people up and going again.  The plan is to continue to have servers run for these products so customers do not have to worry about a shut off date.

I’ve confirmed that this glitch is fixed, at least for now. A permanent fix would replace the firmware on affected devices so it no longer checked for updates, but doesn’t appear to be on the table for a discontinued product.

 

 

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Ed Bott is an award-winning technology writer with more than two decades' experience writing for mainstream media outlets and online publications.

Disclosure

Ed Bott

Ed Bott is a freelance technical journalist and book author. All work that Ed does is on a contractual basis.

Since 1994, Ed has written more than 25 books about Microsoft Windows and Office. Along with various co-authors, Ed is completely responsible for the content of the books he writes. As a key part of his contractual relationship with publishers, he gives them permission to print and distribute the content he writes and to pay him a royalty based on the actual sales of those books. Ed's books written prior to fall 2011 have been distributed by Que Publishing (a division of Pearson Education) and by Microsoft Press. As of November 2011, Ed is a partner in the independent publishing company Fair Trade Digital Exchange, which exclusively publishes his books.

On occasion, Ed accepts consulting assignments. In recent years, he has worked as an expert witness in cases where his experience and knowledge of Microsoft and Microsoft Windows have been useful. In each such case, his compensation is on an hourly basis, and he is hired as a witness, not an advocate.

Ed does not own stock or have any other financial interest in Microsoft or any other software company. He owns 500 shares of stock in EMC Corporation, which was purchased before the company's acquisition of VMware. In addition, he owns 350 shares of stock in Intel Corporation, purchased more than two years ago. All stocks are held in retirement accounts for long-term growth.

Ed does not accept gifts from companies he covers. All hardware products he writes about are purchased with his own funds or are review units covered under formal loan agreements and are returned after the review is complete.

Biography

Ed Bott

Ed Bott is an award-winning technology writer with more than two decades' experience writing for mainstream media outlets and online publications. He's served as editor of the U.S. edition of PC Computing and managing editor of PC World; both publications had monthly paid circulation in excess of 1 million during his tenure. He is the author of more than 25 books on Microsoft Windows and Office, including the recently released Windows 7 Inside Out.

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RE: Extendergate: What an obscure hardware glitch says about Microsoft's future
glennmcc64 10th Nov 2010
terjeb@...

That was one of the funniest things I have read in ages!
extendergate? Really dude?
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Contributr
That actually makes me feel validated
Ed Bott Updated - 8th Nov 2010
Truly, the sun always shines on Microsoft in your world. Amazing!

Updated to add: My intent was certainly ironic. I thought having the word "obscure" in the title would make the irony more obvious. Humor is tricky stuff and in this case too subtle. No, this isn't a scandal of epic proportions. Rather, it's a small example of how weak links in a large ecosystem can affect the most loyal of customers.
@Ed Bott

Hmm. I think he was referring to the "gate" as a hackneyed media phrase. This is not MS anyway, it's Cisco.

I had a similar thing happen when I bought a hideously expensive licence for Thinstal. After being told their virtualisation didn't quite work with Vista, they turned off the authorisation servers (yes they had a server to be checked everytime their software ran) and I was out money and functionality.

I'd like to meet the software engineers who decided a server would always be up and didn't bother to code a Plan B
@tonymcs

I think he was referring to the "gate" as a hackneyed media phrase.
Exactly right! That is what I was implying with everything being a "gate" now.
  • Flagged
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Perpetual server uptime? PSSHH!
Joe_Raby 7th Nov 2010
@tonymcs:

"I'd like to meet the software engineers who decided a server would always be up and didn't bother to code a Plan B"

Welcome to the eventuality of cloud computing.
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I go with LD on this one, Ed
John Zern 8th Nov 2010
Does everything have to be a "gate" anymore?

What would Nixon say?
@Loverock Davidson I had the same reaction.
My intent was certainly ironic. I thought having the word "obscure" in the title would make the irony more obvious. Humor is tricky stuff and in this case too subtle.
@Ed Bott You have to be careful with irony around an American audience Ed, it is difficult for the average person, but (as I have discovered after living 10 years in the US) irony is especially hard for Americans, always was it seems.

I think most Americans today thinks that if something is "irony", you can probably stick a magnet to it.
terjeb@...

That was one of the funniest things I have read in ages!
This is one of my concerns about technology in general. One of the worst abusers of this are the cellular companies. You buy a phone, commit to a 2yr contract and usually within the first year they stop updating them and go the, "Oh if you want that you can buy our new phone" route. I'm hoping with WP7 and updates coming directly from Microsoft we won't be left out in the cold as quickly, although I don't kid myself. At some point support will dry up for it, like all technology. As long as the support lasts as long as any committments I have to make I'm good with that. Beyond that I look at it as icing on the cake.
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@bleeman : as per my view, WP7 will be out the door just as swiftly as Kin, PlaysForSure (really?!), Spot, SideShow, Smart Display, Media Center Extender, and the list goes on and on...

So next time you see a "Windows" plus something or "Windows Media Center" plus something, it's shelf life is going to be measured in days, not years.
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So true
happyharry_z 8th Nov 2010
@cosuna MS has not had a very good track record for supporting their hardware initiatives.
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Windows XP, since 2001 = how many days?

Okay, how many years?

The support for that system won't be up until sometime around 2014? Again, how many days is that?
@cosuna This is simply blatantly false and ignorant. Not a lot of companies in the world support their products for as long as Microsoft and maintain reasonable compatibility throughout.

Also, this isn't a Microsoft issue, it is a Cisco issue. Why even bring Microsoft into the discussion? A Cisco device stopped working, it was a Cisco dumb-ass thing and it is Cisco that needs to fix it. Should MS give them a helping hand? Why would Cisco need a helping hand getting a dumb webserver up and running again?
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Support, full vs minimal
Aesculapian 9th Nov 2010
@bleeman
I think that Full support should be available through the end of contract, expiration date, warranty date, whatever applies. Beyond that, I expect the minimal support required to let the hardware continue to operate in (possibly limited) function for a reasonable lifetime.

I don't think that a Windows Media Extender, or a laptop, or a cellphone, or the original Xbox should become COMPLETELY nonfunctional at the end of two years. Perhaps new games, features etc won't play, work, but the old ones should continue, and your cell phone should remain active for phone calls assuming you pay the bill, at least for a 5 year life.

If its just a matter of running a rarely touched server, keep it up. If you're going out of business, perhaps a goodbye patch on the server to delete the requirement to phone home.

I've used many "bleeding edge" devices. My Nokia 770 was never as functional as I wished, but it didn't LOSE functionality, and some updates occurred before its marginalization. I expect at least that much from Cisco and Microsoft.
Ed - thanks for posting this and giving it the coverage it doesn't deserve. I'm 1/2 kidding -- I have 2 extenders and they are core to my whole-home DVR ecosystem. They are, as they say, "in a production system." So I can't afford to have them fail.

I was somehow able to kill their internet access just yesterday before they bricked themselves. Not sure why I was so fortunate, but I'm counting my blessings.

What is also the shame of all of this is just how remarkable the WMC + Extender solution really is if you have the wherewithal to get it all setup and configured. For those who are capable of putting in that effort, the result is a whole-home media management solution that trumps all but the multi-million dollar custom media solutions millionaires get to enjoy.

Microsoft never figured out how to properly monetize and popularize this amazing solution, unfortunately, which is why OEMs gave up on extenders and the like.

It pains me to see Google stealing the spotlight with a quite inferior product from most perspective.

You can read my analysis of WMC vis-a-vis GoogleTV at The Green Button (http://thegreenbutton.com/blogs/digitaldreams/archive/2010/10/30/windows-media-center-vs-google-tv.aspx)

Cheers, and here's to hoping that Cisco comes through for the bold, the elite, the almost extinct Media Center enthusiast. I'm proud to be one of them.
Apple TV. Just Works, 'nuff said!
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Contributr
Hilarious
Ed Bott 7th Nov 2010
@james347

Andy Kaufman would be proud.
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as a doorstop, too! wink
@John Zern I thought it was too small and light to be a doorstop!
@Levinson - Not if you use it to hammer in a door stop wedge... happy
@james347

So does my Xbox 360. What's your point??
@Orangy

Mine too and it plays High Definition Games. I guess he missed the point about how this was a problem of the Linksys/Cisco device and not Windows.

Oh and I know 1 person with Apple TV (I know, amazing right that someone actually bought it) and it does not always work.
@james347

Unless you count all the "111" and "112" errors during Netflix playback:

http://discussions.info.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=12548171

I have an AppleTV (puck version) and these errors are quite annoying. But unlike this Cisco product, I'm expecting a firmware update to be released from Apple.

-M
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Original AppleTV
use_what_works_4_U 8th Nov 2010
@betelgeuse68
I have an original AppleTV and it's terrific for what it does. Unfortunately what it does is far too limited so I hacked it to install Boxee and XBMC. I am much happier now, but my next such device will undoubtedly be the $99 Roku.
@james347 I bought a mac mini and it runs windows 7 media center through a projector in the living room.

Just work better. (and I have an all-mac house, and do everything -- except watch video -- on os x)
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Oops? No, bad design.
lars626 7th Nov 2010
You would think Cisco would understand redundancy and error handling. Was this a project they gave to the interns so they wouldn't bother anybody?
Don't that teach any engineering principles to programmers any more?
At this rate I'm going to make sure I stock up on #2 pencils and dig my slide rule out of the box in the basement.
This has nothing to do with Microsoft. It's Cisco problem. Original Apple TV owners won't get any updates or features of new Apple TV like Netflix or Airplay. They're the ones getting shafted by Apple. I won't even mention Xserve machines that Apple just orphaned.
It's a Cisco failure that perhaps Microsoft should have thought of as a possible failure mode and specified a workaround for; these things presumably had a 'works with Media Center' logo from the Microsoft test labs, right? More importantly, every time you get a less than stellar experience from a Microsoft partner, Microsoft has lost an opportunity to guarantee a good experience. When Microsoft doesn't do the work in advance to make sure partner products give you the best possible experience, it doesn't matter that it's not Microsoft's 'fault' - it's still the Windows ecosystem looking bad. Microsoft can't afford that; they can't go down the Apple route of offering only their own hardware with minimally functional third-party accessories, so they have to up their game on making sure what partners sell with a Microsoft licence in is a great experience. That's what the Windows Phone team is trying really hard at; the Windows team are pushing too, but given how much bloatware comes on the average PC, I think they need to crack the whip more (and yes, Microsoft is between a rock and a 'we can switch to selling Android netbooks' hard place here but that's business).
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Contributr
Yes, these are logo'ed devices
Ed Bott 8th Nov 2010
@mary.branscombe

They've got the Compatible with Windows 7 logo for 32-bit and 64-bit operation. http://is.gd/gPPv9
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Another way to block internet access...
simonneedham 8th Nov 2010
I spotted in some of the lengthy Green Button discussion that somebody had circumvented his extender issue by noting the MAC address of the unit and blocking internet access for that MAC address on his router. Looked like an easier workaround to me, if you're router offers that functionality.
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Contributr
Mine's bricked in the UK
zwhittaker 8th Nov 2010
nt.
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Vista developed a bad reputation it never recovered from.

KIN is great example. Executed shortly after birth.

Probably best to avoid Windows Phone 7 also.
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Doesn't make much sense.
@dfolk2

Wow you know nothing other than to preach your Microsoft hatred. I guess you missed the part where this is a problem with the Cisco/Linksys device and not Windows. And while Vista was rough out of the gate Windows 7 is well received and used by millions happily every day. The only ones that keep saying that all Microsoft is bad are trolls like you.
@dfolk2
Nice way to try and reflect people's uncertainty with this issue with the release of WPH7. This issue will not notably impact Windows or the Windows phone. Nice try! Please play again!
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Title....
maclovin 8th Nov 2010
Please fulfill the obligations of your own title.

You said "What an obscure hardware glitch says about Microsoft's future".

Okay, concretely, what does THIS issue, caused by a device's manufacturer outside of Microsoft say about MICROSOFT'S FUTURE? Sounds a bit convoluted doesn't it?

Look, I'm no fan of MS(you could call me an Apple fanboi), but when you put something like that into a title, methinks you're only doing it to try to get reads. In other words, your lack of credibility is showing.

Sorry, but maybe I'm a stickler for facts....perhaps this is why I don't believe much that comes out of FOX News.....

Ah well.
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Did you read the last paragraph?
Ed Bott 8th Nov 2010
@maclovin

It's all about consumer confidence in the Microsoft ecosystem and its partners.
@Ed Bott

I guess I expected a bit more than just a single paragraph summation on an entire company's (as large as Microsoft's) future...
@Ed Bott

Well ed if this is a problem of the Linksys device then the only confidence loss would be on their end and not Microsoft's right. After All Microsoft did not make the extender and the extender that has their name on it (The Xbox 360) works fine. Unless I am missing something from your article.
@bobiroc

What you are missing is the Microsoft logo on this device, and the fact that it is a crucial piece of a feature that Microsoft sold to its customers: Windows Media Center. One day it works, the next day it doesn't. We used to have this box in the living room. If it failed, the whole Media Center system became useless.
@Ed Bott

I guess I am still lost? Is it or is it not a problem with a Cisco Firmware that broke the device or is it an update to Windows that broke the device? If it is the Cisco Firmware then when that Microsoft Logo was slapped on there it did work and then something changed and now it doesn't. If it is an out of date firmware or something on the Cisco/Linksys side then I fail to see how Microsoft can be blamed in any way. Many items have been slapped with a "Designed for Windows" logo only to have the manufacturer ignore it and not make an update or driver for it when Windows gets a new version or updated. Am I wrong. I am not familiar with the device so I am not sure if I should take this as Microsoft somehow wrote the software that powers the device as a Media Center Extender.
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Title....
maclovin Updated - 8th Nov 2010
Removed, whoops.
Maybe I'm missing something, but how is this Microsofts fault? Maybe I read it wrong, but it sounds like you're saying this reflects poorly on Microsoft. Yes, KIN was a monumental failure, and that is all on MS's shoulders, but when I have a device from a 3rd party and it fails, I look at that device manufactuer for answers and not Microsoft. Put the blame where the blame deserves to be, CISCO.

By the way, anyone else starting to think that CISCO for the consumer SUCKS? I was very disappointed when they changed the form factor of the Linksys products so that they couldn't be stacked neatly any longer, and there have been reports of some of these cisco soho devices overheating, and having been a Linksys consumer from very early on I can tell you that their customer service and phone support was very good up until Cisco bought them. Not so good any more. I have 4 Linksys devices at home (2 are pre cisco) and the 3rd is probably one of the first devices that cisco had a hand in developing and the 4th is from 2007 or 2008. All of them perform fantastically. The two switches (BEFSR41's) have been pretty much in constant use for 11 years now, and not so much as a hickup. No dead ports, or anything. Same with my cable modem that I bought to replace the POS the cable company was installing. However, the newest device, which is a wireless router (802.11 G I think) seems to be a little bit more tempremental. I have to "reboot" it from time to time, and sometimes I drop my wireless connections for no good reason. The point is, I'm not at all pleased with what CISCO has done to the Linksys brand. IMHO, they ruined it. And I think CISCO is to blame in this fiasco as well, not Microsoft!
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Yes, this is Cisco's fault
Ed Bott 8th Nov 2010
@mgrubb@...

But it's also a Microsoft-logoed device. People bought it as a part of the officially certified Microsoft ecosystem. When it fails, it's a failure of the ecosystem and absolutely does reflect on Microsoft.
@Ed Bott

I guess it depends on how you look at it. I tend to blame the actual maker of the device and to me it is like the many that blamed windows when Vista/Win 7 didn't work with their old printer or scanner because the manufacturer didnt make an updated driver for it. I have a Visioneer Scanner made in 2005 that did not have a 64bit Vista Driver and obviously no Windows 7 driver. They had a 32bit driver but no 64bit support. Now that scanner was only 2 years old when Vista came out and I blamed Visioneer for it. Now with XP Mode in Win7 I can actually use the scanner again but for a few years during Vista I could not. I blamed Visioneer and on the scanner and the box it has a "Designed for Windows" logo on it.
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xbox360
none none 8th Nov 2010
Ugh, Don't even mention this device to me. One of the reasons I bought one is I thought I could use it to watch my Netflix queue. I was "delighted" when I realized Microsoft has put its Netflix app on the xbox behind a $50/year paywall.

Fortunately, there are other devices at home with a Netflix app whose manufacturers are not as "classy" as Microsoft. They haven't yet realized that consumers "like" devices that double as little annuities by erecting toll booths in customers' homes.





happy
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Netflix for Media Center is free
Ed Bott 8th Nov 2010
@none none

I haven't looked at an Xbox interface lately. Have a brand new one with Kinect arriving this week so will have to compare.
@Ed Bott - It's my understanding that Media Center Netflix still won't stream through XBox as a MC Extender without some third party plugin to hack around it.

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