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Google engineer calls Google+ a "pathetic afterthought" and "knee-jerk reaction"

By | October 12, 2011, 11:33am PDT

Summary: A Google software engineer who accidentally broadcast a 4,578-word rant about the company’s failings saved his toughest criticism for the Google+ service. A list of features can’t make up for a complete lack of vision and a company where “not getting it” is endemic.

Something has been bothering me about Google+ since I first signed up for it months ago, when it was still a “limited field trial.”

I’ve been trying to put my finger on it ever since then, but I couldn’t connect the dots until someone from Google did it for me.

I refer, of course, to Google software engineer Steve Yegge, who wrote a 4,578-word rant about the failings of Google as a company, intended as a no-holds-barred internal critique, and then inadvertently published it to the entire world. (Read this post from our own Larry Dignan if you want the background.)

Yegge saved some of his choicest words for Google+, which Google has poured seemingly bottomless development resources into with negligible effect. Here are some samples:

Google+ is a prime example of our complete failure to understand platforms from the very highest levels of executive leadership (hi Larry, Sergey, Eric, Vic, howdy howdy) down to the very lowest leaf workers (hey yo). We all don’t get it. The Golden Rule of platforms is that you Eat Your Own Dogfood. The Google+ platform is a pathetic afterthought. We had no API at all at launch, and last I checked, we had one measly API call. One of the team members marched in and told me about it when they launched, and I asked: “So is it the Stalker API?” She got all glum and said “Yeah.” I mean, I was joking, but no… the only API call we offer is to get someone’s stream. So I guess the joke was on me.

[...]

Google+ is a knee-jerk reaction, a study in short-term thinking, predicated on the incorrect notion that Facebook is successful because they built a great product. But that’s not why they are successful. Facebook is successful because they built an entire constellation of products by allowing other people to do the work. So Facebook is different for everyone. Some people spend all their time on Mafia Wars. Some spend all their time on Farmville. There are hundreds or maybe thousands of different high-quality time sinks available, so there’s something there for everyone.

Our Google+ team took a look at the aftermarket and said: “Gosh, it looks like we need some games. Let’s go contract someone to, um, write some games for us.” Do you begin to see how incredibly wrong that thinking is now? The problem is that we are trying to predict what people want and deliver it for them.

“…a knee-jerk reaction, a study in short-term thinking, predicated on the incorrect notion that Facebook is successful because they built a great product.”

And there’s the problem with Google+ in a nutshell. It’s a clone of Facebook, built by engineers for people who think like engineers. I now realize what it was I couldn’t put my finger on: this service started out as a list of features. But it didn’t start out with a vision. In fact, I’ve never heard anyone articulate, from a customer’s point of view, why Google+ came into existence in the first place.

My best guess? Someone with an engineering degree looked at Facebook and said “this is too messy—let’s clean it up.” Which they did. But by doing that they made a beautiful, simple service that only Google employees and Silicon Valley geeks with oversized left brains want to use. I know. I’ve spent my entire career trying to explain technically complex stuff to people who do not have engineering degrees and are intimidated by technology.

Clearly, Google+ didn’t start out with a vision. If it had, then Google would not have been blindsided by the controversy over its insistence on people using their real names. That little detail should have been part of the very first discussion, before a single mockup was sketched and before a single line of code was written.

An even bigger design blunder was the idea that sorting your contacts into Circles would allow users to control the privacy of everything they post. Again, it’s a reaction to Facebook and its privacy headaches. But somebody really, really didn’t think that one through.

As others have pointed out, Google senior executives don’t use Google+ publicly. That’s odd, given that the company has tied employee bonuses to their ability to make its social strategy a success. Sergey Brin has exactly two public posts in the first 12 days of October. He posted three times in September and four times in August. Larry Page has four public posts since August 15. Eric Schmidt doesn’t seem to have a public Google+ profile. Last week, Michael Degusta assembled a devastating analysis of how little Google, its top executives and its board members actually use this service.

Now, I think we know why. They’re all using the service, but they’re doing so privately. They’re using Google+ as an internal bulletin board and water cooler, and they expect their employees and customers to do the same, through the magic of Circles.

Just ask Steve Yegge how well that worked out:

Facebook gets it. That’s what really worries me. That’s what got me off my lazy butt to write this thing. I hate blogging. I hate… plussing, or whatever it’s called when you do a massive rant in Google+ even though it’s a terrible venue for it but you do it anyway because in the end you really do want Google to be successful. And I do! I mean, Facebook wants me there, and it’d be pretty easy to just go. But Google is home, so I’m insisting that we have this little family intervention, uncomfortable as it might be.

“You do a massive rant in Google+ even though it’s a terrible venue for it …”

Exactly. Everyone has embarrassing stories to tell about the time they accidentally hit Reply All and sent something embarrassing to the entire company. Google has designed a social media system with a Reply All button that goes to the whole damn world.

Anyway, we all know Google+ isn’t a social service. As Eric Schmidt has stated, bluntly, it’s an identity service. It’s a way to tie all of Google’s products together with a single identity so that Google customers who use one will use the others, and to provide an ever wider stream of information to the mothership about those customers so they can be targeted with better ads.

The trouble with Google+ is that there’s no vision behind it. Instead, there’s a feature list that someone tried to turn into a single, one-size-fits-all product. That’s a recipe for failure, as Yegge bluntly argued:

[T]he “not getting it” is endemic across the company: the PMs don’t get it, the engineers don’t get it, the product teams don’t get it, nobody gets it. Even if individuals do, even if YOU do, it doesn’t matter one bit unless we’re treating it as an all-hands-on-deck emergency. The problem is that we’re a Product Company through and through. We built a successful product with broad appeal — our search, that is — and that wild success has biased us.

The failings that this Google engineer describes are especially familiar to me, because they sound exactly what afflicted Microsoft during its messiest days, from the mid-1990s through the launch of Vista. I’m sure somewhere on a private Microsoft list server there is a 1998 rant from some Microsoft engineer making the same points that Yegge is making today.

Thankfully, that engineer didn’t have the opportunity to accidentally share those thoughts with the public.

Update: After deleting the public version of his post, Yegge added a new public post on Google+, addressing it to “external-world folks.” In it, he notes:

I posted a long opinionated rant tonight about how I think Google could be doing a much better job of thinking from the ground up in terms of services rather than products. Sadly, it was intended to be an internal post, visible to everybody at Google, but not externally. But as it was midnight and I am not what you might call an experienced Google+ user, by the time I figured out how to actually post something I had somehow switched accounts.

You can read the rest of the post here.

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Topics

Ed Bott is an award-winning technology writer with more than two decades' experience writing for mainstream media outlets and online publications.

Disclosure

Ed Bott

Ed Bott is a freelance technical journalist and book author. All work that Ed does is on a contractual basis.

Since 1994, Ed has written more than 25 books about Microsoft Windows and Office. Along with various co-authors, Ed is completely responsible for the content of the books he writes. As a key part of his contractual relationship with publishers, he gives them permission to print and distribute the content he writes and to pay him a royalty based on the actual sales of those books. Ed's books written prior to fall 2011 have been distributed by Que Publishing (a division of Pearson Education) and by Microsoft Press. As of November 2011, Ed is a partner in the independent publishing company Fair Trade Digital Exchange, which exclusively publishes his books.

On occasion, Ed accepts consulting assignments. In recent years, he has worked as an expert witness in cases where his experience and knowledge of Microsoft and Microsoft Windows have been useful. In each such case, his compensation is on an hourly basis, and he is hired as a witness, not an advocate.

Ed does not own stock or have any other financial interest in Microsoft or any other software company. He owns 500 shares of stock in EMC Corporation, which was purchased before the company's acquisition of VMware. In addition, he owns 350 shares of stock in Intel Corporation, purchased more than two years ago. All stocks are held in retirement accounts for long-term growth.

Ed does not accept gifts from companies he covers. All hardware products he writes about are purchased with his own funds or are review units covered under formal loan agreements and are returned after the review is complete.

Biography

Ed Bott

Ed Bott is an award-winning technology writer with more than two decades' experience writing for mainstream media outlets and online publications. He's served as editor of the U.S. edition of PC Computing and managing editor of PC World; both publications had monthly paid circulation in excess of 1 million during his tenure. He is the author of more than 25 books on Microsoft Windows and Office, including the recently released Windows 7 Inside Out.

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0 Votes
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The manifesto was a long read, but it was worth it.

Your comparison to Microsoft is spot on. It's easy to see why Google isn't a platform company though. You require strong partners for your platform to work. Remember PlaysForSure? Great idea but the hardware was awful. So, Microsoft makes "Zune", great experience but no vision. Windows Phone has fixed both problems (though the hardware still isn't anything to write home about yet).

I don't know how many more failures Google will go through before it either "gets it" or becomes Yahoo. Maybe it will take an anti-trust case and a decade of being humbled.
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Contributr
Well put!
Ed Bott 12th Oct
@Rich Miles

Is it evil of me to want to +1 this comment? wink
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+100500
DeRSSS 12th Oct
@Ed Bott:

(100500 is 100500 times better than 1 is definitely not evil.)
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RE: Google engineer calls Google+ a
Roger_Jennings 12th Oct
@Ed Bott Go for it!

--rj
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@Ed Bott
grin. Why not? definitely.
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Of course it is......
linux for me 13th Oct
@Ed Bott

Your articles are filled with hate for anything that is not Microsoft, just as some of the trolls who post here on ZDNet. So it comes as no surprise to take a disgruntled employee's rant out of context to prove your point.

Talk about evil.....Sheesh!!!!
  • Flagged
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RE: Google engineer calls Google+ a
Alan Smithie 14th Oct
@Ed Bott

Welcome to Ed Bott's "We've changed our name (Honestly!) report" Pssst... but not our spots
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@Ed Bott
when talking about spots and what not. wink
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@Rich Miles
+1
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@Rich Miles I thought Microsoft had vision with Live spaces. The tie in with my Hotmail, Skydrive, Office Web Apps, Messenger, and Windows Phone are all great. The problem is, I think my girlfriend and I are the only two people in the world using it. And she only uses it because I won't get on Facebook so she can add me as a friend.....
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RE: Google engineer calls Google+ a
kris_stapley@... 13th Oct
@Bookmark71
I, too, tried to get in to Live Spaces... but I couldn't get anyone interested. Then facebook came along...
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@Bookmark71 You would be wrong. Tons of people use Skydrive. Hotmail is far bigger than Gmail. Messenger has somewhere around 350 million users. As for Live Spaces, I wouldn't know. But the products within that have a massive amount of users.
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RE: Google engineer calls Google+ a
TardHugger@... 12th Oct
@Rich Miles +1, but if Google gets hit like MS for a decade they will die. They don't have the wide footprint of diversity that MS does to fall back on. In fact they are pretty much a one pony show (advertisement).. get hit in the face of public opinion like MS was and they will wither quickly.
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Too short sighted.
thoiness 13th Oct
@TardHugger@... Having the largest (and for all intents and purposes: only) search engine in the world makes them bulletproof. A billion people can hate them, but those same billion will be Googling for toaster ovens and Googling their favorite blogs to rant about Google.

See the problem here? They can't die.
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RE: Google engineer calls Google+ a
thoiness Updated - 13th Oct
removed for duplicate
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RE: Google engineer calls Google+ a
RobertMoore12@... 14th Oct
@Rich Miles Maybe, if they fired that stupid engineer and got more talent in they could fix it. It was his job to help Google work. Why wasn't he doing something instead of griping about it.
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@RobertMoore12@... Why are you assuming he was in a position to fix it? Do you think that simply because he works at Google, that he's automatically working on Google+? He could be in an entirely different division.
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RE: Google engineer calls Google+ a
anono Updated - 12th Oct
The guy makes some excellent points. Making great products will only get you so far. Google now needs to be more of a platform or in other words make a living off other people's work like MS and Facebook have been doing. It is indeed an incorrect notion that they are successful because they built great product.
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RE: Google engineer calls Google+ a
khawaja.umar.farooq@... 12th Oct
@anono: being a platform company is as much about letting other people make money off your platform as it is about making money off other people's work. The 3 major platforms of modern times, i.e., Microsoft's Windows, Apple's App Store and Facebook all allow developers to monetize.
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@anono LOL! Google has been making a living off of other people's work. It's why every Android OEM is paying Microsoft a patent license. It's why Oracle is going to win a suit against Google for ripping off and stealing their Java code. It's why they're being sued left and right for property theft. Last time I checked, Microsoft and Facebook were not being sued for this.
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that engineer should go back to M$
The Linux Geek 12th Oct
that sent him to google as an undercover agent.
Google should fire him at once for not embracing corporate and FOSS ideals.
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@The Linux Geek

Are you serious? Asking his company to build platforms with open APIs is fundamental to FOSS. That way people can build on top of your platform.
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@Shmythey I guess you are new here !!! The Linux Geek is our resident jester and a fantastic troll !!!
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RE: Google engineer calls Google+ a
ItsTheBottomLine 13th Oct
@1773 and easy money! We bet on the posts and who will respond 1st... like money in the bank that one is!
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@Shmythey
The Linux Geek is to Linux as Loverock is to MS. Don't bother reading.
  • Flagged
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@The Linux Geek
Epic how this moron can keep spreading his FUD against Microsoft, while my reactions get deleted. Thanks Ed!
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Contributr
I am not a moderator
Ed Bott 13th Oct
@Martijn2

I don't know how many times I have to say that. I cannot delete anyone's comments, not even my own.

Our moderators cover hundreds of sites at ZDNet and have to deal with many thousands of comments per day. It is a thankless job and I know they work very hard at it. I would not want to trade places with them.
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@The Linux Geek
You need to take the Google Plus source code and create your own site. Call it Linux Geek Plus. I'll join your polyhedron. (You want to differentiate and not use circles, right?)

Oh wait, where is that link to the Google Plus source code again...?
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RE: Google engineer calls Google+ a
ItsTheBottomLine 13th Oct
@The Linux Geek Ahhh poor baby. Did you get a slap in the face with this? That's OK smoke break is over back to the fry station.
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RE: Google engineer calls Google+ a
LoverockDavidson_-24231404894599612871915491754222 12th Oct
He ripped Google a new one and he is right. Glad to see someone at Google who finally gets it.
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Steve Yegge seems to be a European type of guy thinking in a circular way trying to think through all aspects before acting. Too bad for him. That is not the way most Americans work: They think in a linear way. "Hey, great idea, let's give it a try!" It's try and error based. If it works, do the next step, if not, Americans can turn on a dime. That's Google. With simple products this is an excellent approach. For complex systems this is deadly because there is not enough time. Americans want instant gratification. Zuckerberg, Steve Jobs, Larry Ellison are some exceptions.
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Promote the man to product development and making a running joke of the broadcast so he never does it again. happy
G+ is just the tip of the iceberg here.
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Contributr
Mixed metaphor alert
Ed Bott 12th Oct
@Johnny Vegas

Can I wrap some of that thread around a piece of the iceberg and then use it to knock all the pieces off the chesssboard?

Seriously, I get what you're saying. Stay tuned.
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RE: Google engineer calls Google+ a
Third of Five 12th Oct
@Ed Bott Well, to be fair, it could be argued that what you wrote hit the bullseye, thus making all the rest of the dominoes fall like a house of cards. Checkmate.
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RE: Google engineer calls Google+ a
Roger_Jennings 12th Oct
I tried Google+ a couple of months ago and quickly decided that the time and effort to add yet another social platform (without any merit I could ascertain) would be a total waste.

I'll stick with LinkedIn, Twitter and Facebook, thanks.

--rj
After all that is what the linux fan bois and mac fan bois said about me when I have been making these same assessments for the last year here. The only difference is that I did not have to wait and see Google+ to fail before it would fail. I already knew that it will (it has). Google does not get integration and platform. And until that changes, each of their niche offerings will never be as successful as their advertising search engine. Never.
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Well, I don't know if it's a pathetic after thought (Okrut, anyone?). But it's definitely a "me too" kind of a product. One that still needs to appeal to a wider base.

POLL: Is Google+ little more than a pathetic afterthought?
Vote: http://www.wepolls.com/p/3740179
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Google should have kept G+ in beta for more years than just RTMed it. If it had Beta stamp around, they could easily pull the plugs like they did with Wave easily and without this type of mess.
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I may have oversized brains, though I am not working for Google. But I fail to see what everybody else does: where is the lack of vision? Goggle+ is a decent service, quite different from most of the other things out there and its usefullness justifies its vision or lack of such. Perhaps the vision of the engineer doesn't fit the company vision, but then since when does the management need to share its vision for the rank and file? So that they can loose competitive edge by everyone talking about it ahead of time?
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RE: Google engineer calls Google+ a
Rich Miles Updated - 12th Oct
@vpasman2@...

Scalable innovation.

If you build a platform instead of a product you are no longer limited by the resources in your company. You can add value without adding overhead.

Google+ is merely one example of a systemic problem at Google. The point is that if they create a platform they don't need to anticipate that Farmville or Angry Birds will be the "next big thing."

I don't know anyone who uses Windows because Paint and Wordpad are all they need.
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@Rich Miles

You are very wise. Nice to see some commentary with substance.
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@vpasman2@...

Not everyone has the same opinion about things.

You find Google+ a "decent service, quite different from most of the other things out there" and because thats the way it appeals to you you feel "its usefulness justifies its vision or lack of such". And thats completely understandable. For you and others who may feel the same as you.

The problem is what we are dealing with is whats known as the "Edsel" factor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edsel

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=ford+edsel&view=detail&id=52E296DDFC22304F2649C3E3B633E57E284DD385&first=0&FORM=IDFRIR

A car filled with many innovative designs but missing the mark horribly on esthetic's. And thats not to say that Google simply missed the mark on esthetic's, but the Edsel factor simply represents a situation where a product misses the mark so badly on some elements of importance to the purchasing public that it leads to the products demise despite whatever else the product may offer in an entirely positive way.

Some people bought the Edsel, they felt it offered enough to make them happy, but there were clearly not enough to feel that way and the line ended as an abrupt failure leaving a name behind as a reminder of the fact that there are always going to be products that just will not sell even if there are some good things going for it. And that brings us to people like you who seem to get plenty of value from Google+.

The problem is if you do much reading on Google+ its not hard to see the kind of complaints come back to the Edsel factor.

To bad...so sad.
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I wonder if he still has a job with Google?
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RE: Google engineer calls Google+ a
dynamind-seo Updated - 13th Oct
@Trucker01: Let's say internally it doesn't look good for him. I was diggin into this topic last night and the person behind this leak - steve yegge - is very down at the moment, maybe from loosing a friend/colleague or something else that made him thinking bout restructuring his own life.

Ok, his statement was sharp & oversubscribed but definitely true. He get's a lot of public reaction showing the users acceptance.

Fact is that the most company leaders won't understand such external + personal releases very coaxed.

The most interesting part at all is that some people really think this was a PR move from google.
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@dynamind-seo

If this is a PR stunt, then Google marketing is even more clueless that the product development folks. The classic gambit (see "New Coke") theoretically is to drive consumers back to the original product. So Google is driving users back to... Facebook?
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very interesting Ed. I am a dev and my boss is thinking about a new product. I am thinking about a new platform instead. I can win the battle with this argument now.
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Typical Ed Bott Report?
Dietrich T. Schmitz * Your Linux Advocate 13th Oct
No this is not typical Ed Bott.
Why this one Man's mistakes are noteworthy, I don't know.
For a start, Google+ works for me. I don't like Facebook.

There are many who like Google+. MANY.

Ed, please write one of your typical interesting stories.
This isn't newsworthy.
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@Dietrich T. Schmitz * Your Linux Advocate


In a way it is... When you have another blogger praising Google and calling it a success when it really isn't you need some Factual information to counteract the fanboism of that other blogger. Of course you will not see that other blogger write anything on how many people activated and account but hardly any of them use it and many people signed off.

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