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Microsoft fires back at critics of its HTML5 strategy

By | May 3, 2010, 12:05am PDT

Summary: Last week, both Apple and Microsoft issued manifestos announcing their support for the H.264 standard in HTML5. Microsoft’s post drew an overwhelming response, and now the company’s executive in charge of IE8 has fired back. Why H.264? Are other codecs locked out? And who is this mysterious MPEG LA organization? I’ve got the answers.

Apple and Microsoft are at it again. This time, though, the two archrivals find themselves on the same side (more or less) of a tremendously contentious issue: Which video format will be adopted as the standard for the Internet over the next five (or more) years?

The answer from both companies is H.264. Coincidentally, both Apple and Microsoft issued manifestos announcing that support last week. But how they continued that discussion with developers, partners, and customers is a very different story indeed.

Steve Jobs’ Thoughts on Flash was published on Thursday morning, April 29, although the signature beneath the post simply reads “April, 2010.” It’s mostly a double-barreled blast at Adobe in general and Flash in particular, but references to HTML5 and H.264 are sprinkled throughout the 1681-word post. It’s abundantly clear that Jobs and Apple have placed their bets on H.264: it’s a “more modern format,” and H.264 videos “play perfectly” in Apple’s browser and “look great” on Apple hardware.

On Thursday afternoon, almost lost in the media frenzy over Jobs’ remarks, Microsoft’s Dean Hachamovitch, General Manager of the Internet Explorer division, hit the publish button on a post titled HTML5 Video. At a mere 364 words, Hachamovitch’s remarks got straight to the point:

The future of the web is HTML5. … The HTML5 specification describes video support without specifying a particular video format. We think H.264 is an excellent format. In its HTML5 support, IE9 will support playback of H.264 video only.

Despite the similar content, there was one dramatic difference between the two posts. Jobs’ remarks did not include an option for feedback. Hachamovitch’s post did. And as of Sunday evening, roughly 72 hours after the original post was published, it had attracted nearly 200 comments, some of them downright scathing. In addition, tech news sites and blogs offered all sorts of reactions to the post, many of them wildly wrong. So Hachamovitch did something almost unheard of: he published a new post, Follow Up on HTML5 Video in IE9, addressing many of those comments in detail. (When I asked Hachamovitch last night why he took the time to prepare such a detailed response, he told me: “At the end of the day, we’re building a browser for the Windows customer. Listening to that customer, in whatever form that takes, is not just important, it defines what we’re here to do.”)

I’ve been researching this issue for several weeks now, so I was especially interested in what both companies have to say—and equally interested in the parts they leave out of the discussion. Here’s a summary of some of the key issues in this very controversial discussion. (And if you’re wondering just who the mysterious MPEG LA organization is and why they control the “patent pool” for the H.264 standard, jump to page 3, where I explain.)

Why H.264?

Microsoft delivers software on a scale that is breathtaking. A billion PCs running Windows means a billion copies of one version or another of Internet Explorer. Making architectural decisions for a platform of that size isn’t something that’s done lightly. Apple’s installed base is considerably smaller, but it’s still large, especially when you factor in devices like iPhones and iPads, and its influence among the tech elite is much larger than its market share. For both companies, the decision to embrace H.264 is down to the same two reasons:

First, as Hachamovitch points out, it works—and works well:

[W]e think it is the best available video codec today for HTML5 for our customers. Relative to alternatives, H.264 maintains strong hardware support in PCs and mobile devices as well as a breadth of implementation in consumer electronics devices around the world, excellent video quality, scale of existing usage, availability of tools and content authoring systems

That performance edge isn’t just from software, either. Just about every modern graphic processing unit (GPU) now has H.264 decoding built into the silicon, and IE9 is going to take advantage of hardware acceleration for graphics and text. Jobs cited performance tests showing that hardware-accelerated H.264 video doubled battery life compared on an iPad compared to the same video not using hardware acceleration.

Second, and perhaps more importantly, the H.264 format has undeniable momentum. Hachamovitch pointed to one recent study from Encoding.com, which estimates that 66 percent of all videos on the web are now available in H.264 formats, up from 31 percent a year ago.

Next: What about those other codecs? –>

Topics

Ed Bott is an award-winning technology writer with more than two decades' experience writing for mainstream media outlets and online publications.

Disclosure

Ed Bott

Ed Bott is a freelance technical journalist and book author. All work that Ed does is on a contractual basis.

Since 1994, Ed has written more than 25 books about Microsoft Windows and Office. Along with various co-authors, Ed is completely responsible for the content of the books he writes. As a key part of his contractual relationship with publishers, he gives them permission to print and distribute the content he writes and to pay him a royalty based on the actual sales of those books. Ed's books written prior to fall 2011 have been distributed by Que Publishing (a division of Pearson Education) and by Microsoft Press. As of November 2011, Ed is a partner in the independent publishing company Fair Trade Digital Exchange, which exclusively publishes his books.

On occasion, Ed accepts consulting assignments. In recent years, he has worked as an expert witness in cases where his experience and knowledge of Microsoft and Microsoft Windows have been useful. In each such case, his compensation is on an hourly basis, and he is hired as a witness, not an advocate.

Ed does not own stock or have any other financial interest in Microsoft or any other software company. He owns 500 shares of stock in EMC Corporation, which was purchased before the company's acquisition of VMware. In addition, he owns 350 shares of stock in Intel Corporation, purchased more than two years ago. All stocks are held in retirement accounts for long-term growth.

Ed does not accept gifts from companies he covers. All hardware products he writes about are purchased with his own funds or are review units covered under formal loan agreements and are returned after the review is complete.

Biography

Ed Bott

Ed Bott is an award-winning technology writer with more than two decades' experience writing for mainstream media outlets and online publications. He's served as editor of the U.S. edition of PC Computing and managing editor of PC World; both publications had monthly paid circulation in excess of 1 million during his tenure. He is the author of more than 25 books on Microsoft Windows and Office, including the recently released Windows 7 Inside Out.

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RE: Microsoft fires back at critics of its HTML5 strategy
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Interesting piece
wright_is 3rd May 2010
Thanks Ed.

I am a big user of open and free software and standards, where they make sense. There are some places, where it doesn't.

H.264 is one of those, for me. As you stated, with hardware acceleration built into nearly all video chipsets on sale today, it makes sense to support this standard as the default (or one of the defaults).

For me, one of the biggest problems with Ogg Theora is the lack of hardware support. Also, if H.264 is used on my streaming media devices, why should I need a second format for the Internet?

There are some problems with H.264, in its "freeness" as opposed to its openness. But that I can use one format for my Windows, OS X, BluRay and streaming media client and Apple TV mean that I don't have to worry about it.

For my girlfriend, and people like her, it means they switch it on and it works. She has problems understanding how an Apple TV works - it is too complex. For such people, the whole discussion is pretty pointless. Either they can watch videos automatically, or the device doesn't support video. If they need to find an alternate codec or an alternate browser, the site doing the streaming is "broken" and doesn't work.

That it "could be made to work" by searching for the relevant codec is irrelevant. A "missing codec" error means the device or site is irreparably broken.

Unless the hardware manufacturers of media devices (as opposed to computer operating systems) suddenly jump on board with Ogg Theora, I don't see it making enough headway.
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When you have options you have freedom
TristanGrimaux 3rd May 2010
What is so hard on supporting multiple formats? Everything is done on those formats already, they are working.
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Until someone finds a vuln and exploits it
de-void-21165590650301806002836337787023 3rd May 2010
Software is NEVER done.

New advances in GPU hardware require codecs to be modified in order to offload decoding work to the GPU, freeing up the CPU for more useful tasks.

Improvements in decoding and encoding efficiency and performance require changes.

And vulns that are exploited by a$$hole hackers need to be patched.

If doesn't matter what OS you're on - you have plenty of choices. Want to implement your own codec for Windows, Linux or OSX? Go ahead - many others have.
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Forever cat and mouse
Crestview 3rd May 2010
It will never end. Code is code, and all of it can be manipulated one way or another. There is no such thing as "secure", only ignored.
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... which means video rendering has to be done in hardware, not
software anymore. Doing video in software drains batteries too quickly.
As the article states H.264 hardware acceleration is widespread already
in both desktop GPUs and mobile devices. In the new cross-platform,
my-content-on-whatever-screen-happens-to-be-in-front-of-me
world, vendors standardizing on H.264 is a good thing because that
leads to freedom of choice of viewing platform, which is where we really
want and need the freedom to be.

Codec, shmodec. I want all my stuff on my phone, my Mac, my PC, and
my TV, whenever I want it.
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Unfortunately....
cosuna 3rd May 2010
...it's not that simple.

H.264 has been plague with controversy ever since it started brewing with DVD's.

Just remember that originally the were called Digital Video Discs and Sony said the wanted nothing to do with them. Later the name was changed to Digital Versatile Disc and most of it had to do with codecs and encryption.

Long gone are the royalty free times of VHS. Every one wants a piece of the digital video money and that has essentially stalled the market rather than pushing ahead.

In real terms, this story reminds us of the GIF controversy of the 90's and the PNG fiasco. Ironically, today most browsers support GIF, JPEGs (the equivalent of H.264) and PNGs.

Why should video be any different? If HTML5 backers want to replace Flash video, they need to learn from them and support several alternatives and not just one (just as we have Flash Video and H.264).

Let's get real and don't let HTML5 video go the way of Real Video, whomever remembers that anyway.
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You're missing the point ...
RationalGuy 4th May 2010
Browsers can easily support multiple graphics formats because they are
rendered in software and take relatively few resources to do so, even in
the mobile context.

Now, remember back to the mid-90s where you might turn off
graphics altogether over dial-up because of the bandwidth scarcity.
Web graphics compression was a dark art, because every byte saved
really mattered in a metered pay-per-byte ISP plan.

Likewise today, every processor cycle and every joule of energy counts
in the mobile context. H.264 is being handled efficiently by dedicated
co-processors. Handling multiple video codecs in hardware will require
either multiple co-processors (bad for cost, heat and power) or
multiple codecs on the same chip in firmware (bad for cost, heat,
power and efficiency).

Until we see H.264 + VP7 co-processing on the same efficient chip,
then Flash video on mobile is a non-starter. Unless you don't mind
charging your phone two or three times a day.
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Too many options
Muttz 3rd May 2010
There are just too many options for codecs.

This is a great to spread malware. People have become so used to downloading yet another codec, many don't even question it anymore.

Then my phone rings and someone wants to know how to clean up the mess.
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The World is Changing
gigabot71 3rd May 2010
Options don't necessarily mean freedom. In many cases they typically
just equate to confusion and insecurity.

Computers and operating systems aren't being built for you any more.
They are being built for the average consumer who has a job that
doesn't involve sitting in front of a computer all day and whose home
life doesn't involve doing more of the same all night. Those people
want things to just work. They don't want to have to know about things
like which video CODEC is the best, they expect the manufacturer to
make that determination for them and build it into the system. This is
what both Apple and Microsoft have realized. It's not about some
proprietary lock in that benefits them in some cryptic manner (does it
even make any sense that they need to resort to that kind of thing?
they have enough lock in mechanisms already that are far more
effective than this). It's about building more secure, bullet-proof,
easier-to-use systems. In practically any engineering problem, the
simpler you can make the solution, the more reliable and stable it will
be. What's simpler, supporting one CODEC off-the-shelf or a plethora?
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while i agree..
thx-1138_@... Updated - 3rd May 2010
..with your comment on the importance of simplicity, you've clearly overlooked the flip-side of the coin (as it were):

"...It's about building more secure, bullet-proof, easier-to-use systems. "

No brainer.

"...In practically any engineering problem, the simpler you can make the solution, the more reliable and stable it will be."

While that's correct, those changes and technical adjustments in a product's development cycle aren't made out of altruism - they're made by organizations / developers that *expect* a return on their investment of time, invention and product development. So, again, you're obviously overlooking alot in your comments.

"...What's simpler, supporting one CODEC off-the-shelf or a plethora?"

And there its is! Right there: the Million dollar question. Well, if you paid attention to what Ed mentioned later in his write-up, you'd have noticed he mentioned the time-limit for the existing MPEG LA group of patents. Since you clearly didn't pay attention well enough, i'll reiterate what it could potentially mean for any self-respecting user of the Internet - post-2016 (granted, speculatory - but still highly possible):

* If Apple and MS hold sway over the other signatories / patent holders under MPEG LA, we could all be held to ransom with a pay-to-play type scenario becoming the license model.

* If the OGG working groups are locked out now, that could effectively kill off any - and all - other prospective open source codec developers trying to get a foot in the door with HTML5 video content compatibility.

SYNOPSIS: The long and the short of it is, no one knows for certain if the worse case scenario will play out. But heaven help us if it does, because it will effectively mean end-users will have a 'double-whammy' as far as internet usage fees go: to both ISP and video-content providers.

This is definitely not the time for absolutism.
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But now the mouse is in the trap ...
WhiteSand 3rd May 2010
... of the bis players and this is what these big software companies are aiming at since years. Now they are big enough and have a good coverage of the market. And if they play together (i.e. M$ & Apple), they can reduce the number of options for the consumer and kill indirectly all those smaller competitors. And the consumer has to pay for it: Copyrights for every little piece of software will raise the prices.
My solution: More support for Linux and the Open Source community !
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RE: Interesting piece
bb_apptix Updated - 3rd May 2010
> "For my girlfriend, and people like her, it means they switch it on and it works. She has problems understanding how an Apple TV works - it is too complex. For such people, the whole discussion is pretty pointless. Either they can watch videos automatically, or the device doesn't support video. If they need to find an alternate codec or an alternate browser, the site doing the streaming is 'broken' and doesn't work.

"That it 'could be made to work' by searching for the relevant codec is irrelevant. A 'missing codec' error means the device or site is irreparably broken."

Exactly!

Either it works out of the box- they can watch it automatically -or they can't. If they can't, then it needs to be fixed. Imagine buying a car and then finding certain features only work after you have an ad-on installed?

(BTW, this is also what hinders linux from becoming more widespread among the masses.)
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This kind of point is being well made in that what many who work and practically live in the IT world all too often forget the majority of the world want in a computer.

Although most of the world has probably come to a reasonably firm grasp that a computer, or computer driven device is not a simple appliance like a toaster, they still cannot understand why something can only work in certain instances on one computer and perhaps more or less instances on a different computer. The focus on video is a great example because its something that large numbers of average people are interested in viewing on their computer.

What they don't want is to see a copy of a great video on their friends computer only to find that when they go to show the same video on their own computer it dosnt work. The reaction is something along the lines of "What the...?? I don't get it...it ran on Jim's computer...my computer runs videos...how is it that I cant seem to get this one to go???"

It gives the user the impression that their computer is second rate when all they likely need is a free codec. But its a common kind of problem and its one the public has a low tolerance for.

It would do many in the IT world to look at this situation to remind themselves that whatever they personally think about this OS or that OS, or this software or that software, the public dosnt give a damn about what anyone "thinks" is the best. What the public wants more then anything in a computing system is by far in a way 2 primary things. They want whatever has worked in the past for them to continue to work just as good on anything new they get in the future. Although that dosnt appear to have to go on forever, but people expect that in most cases the software should have become antiquated and largely fallen out of use before the newer platforms reject it. Secondly, the public fully expects new things, as in applications and other kinds of software and hardware, to work on what they just purchased.

This is what the public wants first and foremost. For it to work. IT types are often more worried about security for example, because they can usually get things to otherwise work, or at least preemptively know what will and will not work and why that is the case. Much of the confusion and frustration dosnt surface the same way about this issue for people in IT so its often not seen as such an important issue and instead they exclaim the virtues of better security over backwards and forewords compatibility as well as cross platform compatibility. But thats not how the public sees it.

The fact is that for many who work in IT, looking at broken machines is what they do all day long so it really comes across as a high flying issue, but the fact is that for the most part even Windows based PC's are secure enough that they keep the world running just fine.

Push button simplicity is what the public wants and until things get to a point with security that the Apple Guy commercials actually make sense because PC's are actually filling up with thousands of viruses daily and endless lockups and BSOD's then things might be different because nothing will be working at that point.

Right now in this world there are not nearly a significant enough number of computers in the sad dilapidated state that the Apple Guy commercials like to pretend exist so dont expect the publics opinion on whats important in a computer or what makes a computer great or not to change for some time.
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You were doing just fine until...
ubiquitous one 3rd May 2010
...you got to the "Apple guy" dig. You just had to throw that in, huh?

Couldn't help yourself, right?
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playback. If I don't have that codex, I just convert it do the format I want. Right now I am converting my Library over to OGG. Microsoft will change the format in the future anyway, given MS and Apple's history, they won't be backward compatible, either. This software has is pattented for a reason, they will either change to something non compatible or will be willing to keep it going for a price. Because it is not open source, you can't do much about anything you really wanted to keep for the future.
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And you missed the point totally...
wright_is 3rd May 2010
For the average person, "codec" is a non-word.

YOU might be able to change convert the format, find the right codec etc. But the average user won't have a clue.
"given MS and Apple's history, they won't be backward compatible, either"
I lol'd.
Thank you for your sharing. fake rolex watches
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They could solve the trust issue.
LeoD Updated - 3rd May 2010
They could solve the trust issue by legally promising to continue to only charge reasonable prices for reasonable things forever, instead of only for a few years.

(Obviously "reasonable" would have to be defined, but if the licence cost was linked to inflation + some maximum percent, or whatever, that'd work.)

If the MPEG-LA did that then they'd stop looking like crack dealers giving out the first hit for free.

It reminds me of (UK) politicians bringing in draconian laws and verbally promising that they won't abuse the laws, yet refusing to make those promises part of the conditions of the laws. (Guess what, the laws got abused; in fact almost all uses of them were abuse.)

If they really plan to be reasonable (and they may well do) then they should have no problem putting that in the contract.

Another point, you say:

"If the MPEG LA patent pool didn?t exist, Microsoft and Apple would have to negotiate with 25 separate companies to license patents for modern, hardware-accelerated video playback."

While that may be true, people on the other side have pointed out that an effect of the MPEG-LA process is that companies try to get their patents into the pool so that they get discounts on licensing the pool. According to those claims, the process encourages more patents to be used where they may not be required. That seems perverse and may mean, if the MPEG-LA did not exist, that it would be far fewer companies/patents which had to be negotiated with.

http://lists.xiph.org/pipermail/theora/2010-April/003769.html

Of course, Theora isn't as good as H.264 and does not enjoy the same level of support in commercial hardware and software, almost certainly because fewer organisations want to invest R&D in a technology which they cannot charge fees for, so there is some truth on both sides.

The MPEG-LA process probably does increase the number of patents involved, but it may also make possible something which would not happen otherwise.

Anyway, I have no problem with paying for R&D, paying for software, etc., provided it is a reasonable fee and that there is no danger of being trapped with a technology that suddenly costs the earth. If the MPEG-LA could just guarantee that they won't do anything unreasonable in the future, I think many people's problems would go away.

(There would still be issue for FOSS browsers wanting to include video playback out-of-the-box, but those browsers seem to play Flash well enough via plugins so I see no real problem with doing the same for HTML5 H.264. Then again, I don't use or particularly care about Linux etc. so I may be blind to the issues on that platform wrt anyone being bothered (or having the money) to write a good H.264 plugin for those platforms.)

EDIT: Typo'd "H.265" in one place.
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The reason companies don't want to invest in Ogg is ...
de-void-21165590650301806002836337787023 3rd May 2010
... that they're not willing to carry the legal and financial liabilities it may expose them to.

If a commercial software vendor adds an Ogg encoder to its product and Ogg is later found to violate one or more patents, then that vendor will be legally and financially liable and may incur significant fines ... or worse.
Until software patents disappear, open source projects always have the potential to be at the mercy of some patent holder. Even if the patent holder's claims are not valid, a patent can be a means of scaring companies away from open formats.

Good video codecs are going to be developed with or without the existence of software patents. The patent regulations do nothing good here.

Europe may lead the way for open source projects/formats of the future because they don't have software patents.
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"open source [snip] at the mercy of patent holder". So what?
de-void-21165590650301806002836337787023 3rd May 2010
Welcome to the real world. Closed-source projects are also "at the mercy" of patent holders too, but you don't see the closed-source software world grinding to a halt do you?

Why should open-source projects be any different to any other project?

And why do open-source project advocates believe they're so morally superior to everyone else that they should not abide by laws that protect an inventor's rights?

Further: You CAN patent a technical solution in Europe:

"Within European Union member states, the EPO and other national patent offices have issued many patents for inventions involving software since the European Patent Convention (EPC) came into force in the late 1970s. Article 52 EPC excludes "programs for computers" from patentability (Art. 52(2)) to the extent that a patent application relates to a computer program "as such" (Art. 52(3)). This has been interpreted to mean that any invention which makes a non-obvious "technical contribution" or solves a "technical problem" in a non-obvious way is patentable even if that technical problem is solved by running a computer program.[12]

Computer-implemented inventions which only solve a business problem using a computer, rather than a technical problem, are considered unpatentable as lacking an inventive step (see T 258/03). Nevertheless, the fact that an invention is useful in business does not mean it is not patentable if it also solves a technical problem."
I mentioned oss specifically because the previous posted had mentioned Ogg. I think patents are detrimental to closed source projects as well and many closed source projects HAVE come to a halt or were never begun because of patents.

Point is, software patents do more harm than good. I've never seen a piece of decent software that wouldn't have been created anyway had patents not existed.

So what purpose patents serving? Seems like a bunch of un-needed regulation and legal headaches to me. Maybe one day as more people begin to understand this, the laws will be changed.
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Its funny, you OSS zelots
Stan57 3rd May 2010
Its funny, you OSS zealots want everything to be free. Its So painfully obvious why OSS doesn't like patents"Money" Not freedom or anything else.
OSS wants a free ride for everything,thats why they don't like patents. They want to copy everyones Else's hard work and on there dime as well. OOS zealots are nothing more then freeloaders,nothing more.
It is not limited to OSS.
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Some of us refuse to pay extortion fees
ubiquitous one 3rd May 2010
...or be price gouged into pay & play vendor lock-in and restrictive copyright licences. That's why Open Source exists.

Remember what Ed said about those MPEG LA contracts after 2016. There's no guarantee after that date that you won't be paying out the_ass for content.
Google and others have included Ogg Theora (for video) in shipping software products.

Many companies have, for years, included Ogg Vorbis (for audio) in hardware products (e.g. portable music players) and software products (e.g. several games have used Ogg audio files over the years).

If it's such a liability compared to everything else, why have those companies chosen to use it and why have they run into zero problems doing so so far?

Also, why is H.264 somehow immune to the same problems?

There is a risk of patent trolls with any codec, or just about any piece of software for that matter, but that's about all you can say.
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What product incorporating Ogg has Google *SOLD*?
de-void-21165590650301806002836337787023 3rd May 2010
For the real rewards of patent violation, IP owners are waiting for someone to SELL and make significant profit from a product that violates patent.

Chances are that most IP owned in this area is around creating and encoding content, rather than playing it back.

Why has nobody yet been sued? Because nobody has yet made billions of dollars in profit necessary to pay all legal fees and still return sufficient cash to make it worthwhile.

The point of h.264 is that it is essentially covered by an enormous expanse of patent licenses that there's little (if any) room for an unexpected violation.
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Sold products using Ogg Vorbis
LeoD 4th May 2010
Several commercial games have used Ogg Vorbis:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vorbis#Usage

Not from Google those are some high profile games from major publishers (including Microsoft) which used Ogg Vorbis, were sold for money and where nothing at all happened as a result of using them.

Several commercial digital audio players have shipped with Ogg Vorbis support as well. Nobody got sued for that, either.
@de-void

They have

Android.

They also owns the patents in Theora through their acquisition of On2. Theora is patented, but released under broad royalty free terms as per agreement when donated as VP3 to Xiph. MPEG-LA doesn't guarantee at all that they license all the required patents. VP3 was designed by On2 to not infringe any third parties patents.

But I guess HTC, Motorola, Sony-Ericsson, Samsung, LG, Acer, Dell, Huawei and Google themselves (Nexus One) aren't big enough.
@de-void MPEG LA is just another form of Co-operative no different than Open Source being a form of a Co-operative. But..... those were idol threats by MPEG LA. That's why you didn't see them run and hide for fear.

All kinds of legal reasons any patent suits wouldn't fly any longer than shooting a pig in the air without wings against OGGs; there is such a thing as "Time Constraints", once you neglect to protect a patent, you can not go back years to do so. MPEG LA's Patents are only good against new codecs that are given adequate notice of infringement!

There are Ogg and Theora Codecs, but there are ways you can use just about any codec you want in an Ogg container. Here's a chart:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_container_formats
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Google to open source VP8 video codec
Dietrich T. Schmitz, Your Linux Advocate 3rd May 2010
FYI,

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1600832/google-source-vp8-video-codec

It is anticipated that Google will announce their plan to open source VP8 at the May Google I/O Conference.

This move will definitely neutralise the effects of H.264.

Seems Ed made no mention.

Dietrich T. Schmitz
Linux Advocate
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And the average user doesn't care.
No_Ax_to_Grind 3rd May 2010
Oh well.
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You seems to always know ...
n0neXn0ne Updated - 3rd May 2010
... what the "average user" wants. Are you the "average user" spoke person? Self appointed i suppose.

PS. I'll like to meet one of these so call "average luser". Or are you one?

^o^

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Ok, and? So? Well what?
Cylon Centurion 3rd May 2010
What does this have to do with anything?
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As far as you know? Probably nothing.
Dietrich T. Schmitz, Your Linux Advocate 3rd May 2010
nt
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No it won't
DevGuy_z 3rd May 2010
It will have the same impact as ogg which is
already Open sourced.
No one with deep pockets wants to use open source software that violates dozens of MPEG patents.

Now if google indemnifies all VP8 users then there's a story.

Wake us up when that happens, until then this is just more oss bs...
0 Votes
+ -
...amazingly it doesn't infringe on any patents
and people would buy and use it. But what you're
saying is that as soon as its opened it going to
infringe on patents? Oh.....I guess you didn't
realize they bought a closed codec to open source.

Get outta here with that BS.
0 Votes
+ -
Do you know how to read?
Johnny Vegas 3rd May 2010
Where did you read anything about it not violating patents when it was closed? What makes you think On2 didnt violate patents? Just cause they dont have ms/apple size bank rolls.
No. And thats my point. But they can keep on with
this patent FUD'ing and watch the federal
regulators step in and put an end to this software
patent mess altogether. We already see they have
Apple under the gun for closing off their
development options.
0 Votes
+ -
It's only infringing when money is involved
Yax_to_the_Max 3rd May 2010
There's no point in suing someone unless they are making money or taking marketshare.

The problem with google is that they are nowhere to be seen when a company gets sued for using their products.

Take HTC for example. When they got sued by Apple for using android, not a peep from Google.

So we'll see if google steps up to defend this video codec when it starts making money and taking marketshare from other codecs.
0 Votes
+ -
How are they going to make a peep...
storm14k 3rd May 2010
...they are intentionally not named in the
lawsuit. I think its quite interesting and
telling that nobody actually goes after Google.
If I'm not mistaken they make a small amount of
money off licensing the Google Experience on
Android phones. So why not cut off the
distribution of the offending code at the
source. Well....they can't.

And who really needs to come to the defense of
Apple's patent claims. Half of them won't stand
up anyway. A patent on "easing"....seriously?
...or incredibly stupid. Apple and MS can try to
push any codec they want. The end user doesn't
care much like NoAx said. The end user cares
about content. Oops...guess who has one of if
not THE most viewed video content sites on the
internet. Guess what that site will switch to
for its video format. Guess who has a browser
(actually 2) to ensure its users have a way to
view their favorite content no matter what.

Apple and MS can grandstand all they want. When
Google switches to using the VP8 codec and open
sources it they will have to follow or be left
out. And theres no amount of federal regulation
that can help them as the codec is open source
and they simply choose not to implement it. And
on top of that you'll have at minimum two
browsers in FF and Chrome using it. If they
don't want to lose any more share you'll see it
in IE9 and Safari.
it would not take MS long to support VP8 in IE.
0 Votes
+ -
And now we have Google fanboiz
Rndmacts 3rd May 2010
Where did you get the idea that Youtube was going to VP8, last I heard is that the are standardizing on H.264. It costs them nothing because they are not doing any development work, the videos are produced by 3rd parties, the players are actually in the OS. And the two player argument is what all video sharing sites are doing as some videos are still submitted in other codecs such as flv and swf. If you have a modern camera which uploads to Youtube then your file is H.264 format.
0 Votes
+ -
My Guess...
WarhavenSC 3rd May 2010
>> Oops...guess who has one of if not THE most viewed video content sites on the internet. Guess what that site will switch to for its video format.

h.264?

http://youtube.com/html5/
0 Votes
+ -
Interesting effect
rahbm 4th May 2010
Apparently it is OK to have MS sycophants posting put downs of the opposition, but not to point this out.

Personally, I think that bipartisan support for a common codec, such that video will play natively on Windows or OS X, can only be a good thing. Even better if it can be supported easily on Linux.

Additional support for alternatives may help keep MPEG from lapsing into complacency.
0 Votes
+ -
Hopefully likely...
dogmo1001 3rd May 2010
VP8 *could* change things up even more
extraordinarily -- welcome news to fans of open
software -- but we just don't know for sure
what Google's plans are.

And -- frankly -- the damage has largely been
done by the agree-to-disagree decision that
leave as HUGE GAPING HOLE where a video codec
standard was supposed to have been.

And we can largely thank the interests vested
in the licensing time-bomb H.264 for plunging
the web back into a morass of conflicting
implementations of not-quite-standards.

As a web developer, an advocate of real
standards, and a believer in open software and
free competition, this is one of the most
frustrating and rather saddening turns of event
in quite a while.
0 Votes
+ -
The MPEG-LA Rabbit Hole: Bat $hit Crazy?
Dietrich T. Schmitz, Your Linux Advocate 3rd May 2010
fyi,

Why Our Civilization's Video Art and Culture is Threatened by the MPEG-LA:

http://www.osnews.com/story/23236/Why_Our_Civilization_s_Video_Art_and_Culture_is_Threatened_by_the_MPEG-LA

"In my opinion, while the current MPEG-LA execs still seem to have some small common sense, there's nothing protecting us from changing their current somewhat-common-sense execs in 5 or 10 years time, with some bat $h1t crazy ones. Their license agreement is so broad, that ALLOWS for crazy lawsuits against 99.999% of the population (most people have watched a Youtube video, you see, even if themselves might not even own a PC).

Think about it."
[Note to self: Bat $h1t crazy indeed!]


And here's hoping Google will open source VP8.

Dietrich T. Schmitz
Linux Advocate
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