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Microsoft's licensing mess

By | June 7, 2007, 7:44am PDT

Summary: If you’ve been selling a product for more than 10 years and you’ve shipped hundreds of millions of units, you’d think your customers would know what they’re buying. For Microsoft, that’s not the case. The culprit is the hopelessly confusing, practically Byzantine Windows licensing structure, which consists of a maze of terms and conditions that define (and ultimately restrict) what you can do with Microsoft Windows in your home or business. I’ve identified five problems with Windows licensing. If you think they don’t affect you, think again.

If you’ve been selling a product for more than 10 years and you’ve shipped hundreds of millions of units, you’d think your customers would know what they’re buying. For Microsoft, that’s not the case.

The culprit is the hopelessly confusing, practically Byzantine Windows licensing structure, which consists of a maze of terms and conditions that define (and ultimately restrict) what you can do with Microsoft Windows in your home or business. Worse still, the license terms are only partially aligned with the activation and validation tools that are supposed to ensure that your copy of Windows is “genuine.” If you fill a room with 10 PCs, each running an apparently identical version of Windows, there’s no easy way to tell what kind of license restrictions apply to each one - or, indeed, whether any or all of those PCs are properly licensed.

The result? Mass confusion. The most damning piece of evidence is a document prepared by Microsoft for its partners in the distribution channel, which contains this remarkable admission:

The Windows Desktop operating system is the only product on the Volume License SKU list that is UPGRADE only. The full versions of all other products, including Windows Server products, are available through Volume License. This is not a new policy, but we have recently become aware that it has caused confusion with many customers. Microsoft’s Windows Desktop OS policies have been in effect for over 10 years and the policies are written in the Volume License Agreements. However, we have found that nearly 44% of Volume License customers believe that Volume License rights include the full OS and 40% of Volume License customers report they have acquired naked or unlicensed PCs, putting themselves at risk of non-compliance with their Volume License Agreement.

When 44% of your customers believe that they’ve legitimately bought and paid for something and you think they still owe you more money, you have a big problem.

The technical solutions designed to ensure license compliance aren’t exactly foolproof. For that matter, they’re not even easy to understand. Even Windows experts are confused. In the last nine months, I’ve read authoritative-sounding articles offering advice on Windows licensing written by two well-known Windows experts. In each case, the information they presented was flat-out wrong. They make the same mistake that all those corporate customers make, assuming that clearing the activation hurdle makes you legal. The reality is that a properly licensed copy of Windows can fail activation or validation, and an improperly licensed copy can sail through with flying colors. (And that doesn’t even consider Microsoft’s acknowledgment that bugs and poorly written code can cause the activation and validation processes to falsely identify legitimate installations as “non-genuine” copies.)

I’ve identified at least five problems with Windows licensing that Microsoft needs to deal with:

1. The license agreement is not understandable on its face. The new license agreement for Windows Vista is dramatically easier to read than its predecessors, but it’s still infested with jargon and gobbledygook, which is why practically no one reads it. Why can’t there be a one-page summary written in language that anyone can understand?

2. Multiple license types cause confusion. If you buy an OEM license, your license can be upgraded but can’t be transferred to a different machine. If your copy of Windows was an upgrade under the Volume License program, it can’t be transferred to another PC even within your organization. Retail copies, on the other hand, including the Windows Anytime Upgrade flavor sold online, can be transferred to a new PC as long as they’re removed from the original PC. The trouble is, Microsoft provides no easy way to tell which type of license you own. Why can’t Microsoft provide a simple tool that generates a license report showing your version, product ID, and whether the license can be transferred to another PC?

3. Multiple versions of media and product keys cause unneeded headaches. This problem is especially bad with Windows XP, where you need to find exactly the right type of Windows media to reinstall Windows. If you have a Dell system and a Dell product key, for example, you can’t use a retail copy of Windows to reinstall. Windows Vista appears to have simplified this process, with a single set of installation media for all retail and OEM copies (enterprise customers still get separate media). But there are still silly restrictions on the product keys that require customers to jump through hoops to reinstall an upgrade copy on a system that is properly licensed for that copy.

4. Record-keeping requirements are burdensome. If you have a large shop, you need to keep a paper trail for every PC and be prepared to prove that each one is properly licensed. In the UK, midrange companies with around 350 licenses are especially vulnerable to surprise inspections under the Software Audit and Asset Management program.

5. There’s no way to deactivate a Windows PC’s license. Even though you can legally transfer a retail Windows license from one PC to another, doing so is almost certain to fail activation, forcing you to contact a Microsoft representative over the phone and activate manually. Wouldn’t it make more sense if you could deactivate a system as easily as you can activate it? Doing so could tell Microsoft’s activation servers to remove the record for the current system and would allow activation on a new PC.

Do you have any comments or complaints about the Windows licensing process that I missed? Hit the Talkback button and let me know.

 

 

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Topics

Ed Bott is an award-winning technology writer with more than two decades' experience writing for mainstream media outlets and online publications.

Disclosure

Ed Bott

Ed Bott is a freelance technical journalist and book author. All work that Ed does is on a contractual basis.

Since 1994, Ed has written more than 25 books about Microsoft Windows and Office. Along with various co-authors, Ed is completely responsible for the content of the books he writes. As a key part of his contractual relationship with publishers, he gives them permission to print and distribute the content he writes and to pay him a royalty based on the actual sales of those books. Ed's books written prior to fall 2011 have been distributed by Que Publishing (a division of Pearson Education) and by Microsoft Press. As of November 2011, Ed is a partner in the independent publishing company Fair Trade Digital Exchange, which exclusively publishes his books.

On occasion, Ed accepts consulting assignments. In recent years, he has worked as an expert witness in cases where his experience and knowledge of Microsoft and Microsoft Windows have been useful. In each such case, his compensation is on an hourly basis, and he is hired as a witness, not an advocate.

Ed does not own stock or have any other financial interest in Microsoft or any other software company. He owns 500 shares of stock in EMC Corporation, which was purchased before the company's acquisition of VMware. In addition, he owns 350 shares of stock in Intel Corporation, purchased more than two years ago. All stocks are held in retirement accounts for long-term growth.

Ed does not accept gifts from companies he covers. All hardware products he writes about are purchased with his own funds or are review units covered under formal loan agreements and are returned after the review is complete.

Biography

Ed Bott

Ed Bott is an award-winning technology writer with more than two decades' experience writing for mainstream media outlets and online publications. He's served as editor of the U.S. edition of PC Computing and managing editor of PC World; both publications had monthly paid circulation in excess of 1 million during his tenure. He is the author of more than 25 books on Microsoft Windows and Office, including the recently released Windows 7 Inside Out.

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RE: Microsoft's licensing mess
beijing2008 14th Sep
Everything in this post is so perfect replica chanel bag
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Proof of ownership of the license
DMWCincy 7th Jun 2007
Another issue we ran into is the proof you own the license. The receipt my company received when we bought CALs did not include the price of the CAL. That wasn't good enough when we were audit and we had to have the company track down their records(2 yrs pass the sell) for that information so we could pass the audit.
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Accounting 101
ibabadur1 7th Jun 2007
I don't really see how that's Microsoft's problem. Every business should know that you need to have receipts for all assets that show the cost and purchase date.

That IS the point of an audit. A 3rd party verifies the financial status of a company. Can't do that if your company doesn't keep good records.
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Wrong kind of Audit
maldain 8th Jun 2007
The type of audit is what we in my organization refer to as a fishing audit where some law firm files a law suit and demands a discovery audit of your licenses. The latest twist in this extortion game is the lawyers then claim that you don't own those licenses and must produce proof of owner ship. Possession of the holographic tags isn't enough you must prove that you bought them and that the vendor was legitimate or pay off the scum.
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RE: Microsoft's licensing mess
beijing2008 14th Sep
Everything in this post is so perfect replica chanel bag
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Proof of ownership of the license
ajv123 29th Jun 2007
I hear you, brother. As soon as we find a viable alternative Microsoft will be off our radar. I venture, I'm not alone. This is what should keep MS up all night. However, like a classic monopolist the rage in their base does not concern them. We are actively testing other OS's and in a few month we will make a choice and by next year, this time we will inform Microsoft we no longer need their products.
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Be careful what you wish for...
sordito 7th Jun 2007
I agree that it is a mess, but it could be worse. Enterprise licenseing with Symantec is a complete nightmare. They make MS licenseing look like a mid summer nights dream.
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Intriguing image...
brendthess 8th Jun 2007
I could easily believe that Puck was in charge of MS Licensing. In fact, a lot of things about it fall into place if we make that assumption, don't they?
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-2 Days, +0 Gain in Knowledge
tkliem 7th Jun 2007
I've spent the past two days trying to sludge my way through this licencing business. This includes printing out a 6-page document from CDW explaining licencing, and over 20 pages from the MS Partner website JUST to figure out what licenses we might need to switch to Server 2003.

The message I get is that Microsoft wants every last cent they can get from an organization. I applaud their attempt to simplify network licensing.

From what I've been able to figure out, it seems as though I'm buying a license for EACH machine as well as EACH user.. If that's the case, then there is no way the execs will ok a migrate to Server 2003.
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Which is why
Linux User 147560 7th Jun 2007
Linux or even FreeBSD is such a spectacular deal. There are no restrictions on how many and if you absolutely must have vendor support you can get it at a price, but the OS and applications are with in reason and without stupid restrictions. The GPL v2.0 is so much easier to read and understand. devil
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Which is why
ajv123 29th Jun 2007
Exactly. Since software is the deciding factor we will migrate to Linux. We need to determine which distribution. We have eliminated those distros that are associated with MS. Any favorites?
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Re: -2 Days, +0 Gain in Knowledge
none none 7th Jun 2007
From what I've been able to figure out, it seems as though I'm buying a license for EACH machine as well as EACH user..

So if you have 200 users each machine needs 2001 licenses?

WOW!



happy
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2001. Sorry. (NT)
none none 7th Jun 2007
.
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It's easy (if you know how)
Al S Cook 10th Jun 2007
The sad thing is that Microsoft's documentation is often contradictory and incomplete, and the vendors don't have a vested interest in saving you money. Microsoft doesn't care if you're confused. Most confused customers overbuy.

But if you want to bring Windows Server 2003 into your organization, here's what you need.
One Windows Server 2003 license for each server.
One Windows Server 2003 CAL for each user or device.

So if you have 10 servers and 200 users, you buy 10 Windows Server licenses and 200 Windows Server 2003 CALs.

Al S Cook
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Hmm, not that easy
magpie_z 14th Jun 2007
As an example, a copy of Server 2003 Enterprise comes with 25 cals, server 2003 premium comes with 5.

So the best thing is to determine which versions will be needed and read the literature on that version. I know that for some people knowing how to read is inconvenient but the RTFM statement holds true in everything that we do.
Server 2003 (now 2008) Enterprise comes with 25 CAL?s, server 2003 (now 2008) premium comes with 5...

And when you purchase Open licensing, or Select licensing it doesn't come with any CAL's at all...

Always know what you are buying... Consult a knowledgeable sales professional, and reward them with your business, while demanding a fair price (I didn't say the lowest)...

Caveat emptor... Let the buyer beware...
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It's easy (you don't know, do you)
ajv123 29th Jun 2007
You are forgetting you printers (a stand alone device)
and than there are your NAS

You either count the seats OR the devices not both.
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It''s easy (if you know how)
Al S Cook 9th Aug 2007
Printers and NAS don't need CALs. A CAL is a client access license and these devices don't "access" Windows.
But your question illustrates an important point: how quickly this gets complicated. In fact, Microsoft defines certain types of access as requiring a CAL, while others don't. If you use Windows as a Web server, for example, anyone who accesses the server as an "anonymous" user doesn't need a CAL.
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CAL's are for clients...
sjoconnor3 15th Sep 2008
Microsoft CAL's are for Client devices, not peripherals...

Client devices are users PC's, Network enabled phones, Networked PDA's, and laptop/tablet devices.

Forgive me if I messed any but Printers and NAS devices, projectors, or other peripherals do not require CAL's for windows server...
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EACH machine as well as EACH user..
sjoconnor3 Updated - 15th Sep 2008
Each machine and each user? Depends on what we are talking about.

I think you are talking about CAL's or Client Access Licenses. CAL's are either Per User or Per PC/Device. There are some instances where using both can save you money.

CAL's are purchased on a least needed basis:

Most companies will pick per-user so they don't need a CAL for each person's smart phone, laptop, and desktop used by one person.

A company running multiple shifts with different people using the same PC would want to opt for the Per Device CAL's

Banks are an example where using both saves more money. The executive offices would license per user, and then the branch locations per device if the number of branch users exceeds the number of PC's. Fast food companies are another such example of where mixing Device and User CAL's are of a benefit.

Cover yourself with the least number of CAL?s needed, and document it.

To illustrate my example:
? If you have 100 employees but 200 devices (desktop and laptop each)? buy 100 User CAL?s
? If you have 300 employees but only 100 client devices? buy 100 device CAL's.
? If you have 100 executives that each has a network PDA/Phone, a laptop, and Desktop? And you have 100 terminals accessed by 300 part time employees? You would need: 100 User, and 100 Device CAL?s. Not 400 User CAL?s or 400 device CAL?s? This example requires the best documentation?

I've sold Microsoft licensing for the past 10+ years, and yes it is a mess (but it is better than when I first started).

Get an experienced, software sale, professional that that you can trust. Sticking with them is your best option. Make sure they have sufficient resources for all your software needs. Going with the lowest bidder is a plan for failure. Also, most small local VAR?s just don?t have the experience or resources when it comes to Software Licensing. Going with a global or national large account reseller will save you time and money in the long run. Our company finds tens of thousands of dollars of unnecessarily purchased licenses, or over purchased licenses because of the scare tactics of other resellers, and anti-piracy laws (see http://www.bsa.org). There are also plenty of companies that don't purchase enough or the correct licenses too...
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Old technology
Charles Norrie 22nd Apr 2009
What, our friend here is considering moving to a 2003 Microsoft package.

Ubuntu hadn't been invented 5 years ago, and is now on it's 10th release!

Do let me come to your company and help migrate you to safe, open, freeware.
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Licensing Simplification...
notlehs 7th Jun 2007
It is quite easy in my mind to simplify this.

1) Eliminate product activation..it was, is and always will be stupid and ineffective at its intended purpose.
2) Change all licenses so they are transferrable.
3) Have ONE piece of source media.. .the retail version. It should do a full install when you enter the full install key and an upgrade when you enter an upgrade key. In better terms, the OEM version should not be different from the retail version in anyway.

These changes will make life much easier for everyone and will have a positive effect on Microsoft Profits as customers will be more likely to upgrade if it isn't such a nightmare.

They arent stopping piracy, pirated copies of windows install very easily with no activation and dont even ask for a key to be entered.... it is crazy that the real version is more of a challenge than a pirated copy.
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Contributr
OK, question...
Ed Bott 7th Jun 2007
With no activation, what is to stop an unscrupulous system builder from just entering the same product key over and over again on a single copy of Windows and selling it to every customer who walks in the door?
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Absolutely nothing, happens ALL THE TIME.
No_Ax_to_Grind 7th Jun 2007
Both in and out of the US.
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Contributr
Right, except...
Ed Bott 7th Jun 2007
With activation, a single product key cannot be used multiple times with a legitimate copy. It won't activate on the second and subsequent systems. In your "happens all the time" scenarios, the system builder has to use hacked copies or tamper with the activation process to get the system to work.

In the scenario that kicked off this thread, the system builder can buy one legitimate copy, use the single legitimate product key over and over, and not risk any consequences, because Microsoft would never be aware.
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So, naturally...
Dr. John 7th Jun 2007
...the answer was to put hundreds of millions of legit users through the added download times, the added resource overhead, the added annoyance and aggravation, the false positives, and all the added etc's. included in WGA.

The answer was to invent an ever more complicated licensing schema, while adding ever increasing numbers of product options, while increasing pricing, pushing more and more users over the edge.

The answer was to make it impossible for a repair shop to replace a failed drive on a major OEM machine that didn't come with OS installation/recovery media without spending 10-15 minutes talking to a computer, followed by someone in an Indian sweat shop. And, God help you if you also have to reinstall their MS Office, or other WGA protected software.

The answer was to take the WalMart approach and assume everyone a criminal until proven otherwise, with WGA standing in for the "Greeter" with the Sharpie.

The answer was to harken back to the early days of Micro-Soft, when Bill said that all computer users were thieves.

I think someone at MS must have misunderstood the question.
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Contributr
Answering the wrong question
Ed Bott 7th Jun 2007
I didn't defend WGA. I asked how this supposed dream world where media had no restrictions of any kind would work. You haven't answered that question either.
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Lower the price
orasac 7th Jun 2007
Anyone remembers massive illegal bootlegging of the VHS movies from the 80? and the early nineties? Studios then got smart and lowered the tape prices and subsequently DVD?s which brought pirating to a virtual halt. There is very little piracy going on right now since the ?PRICE IS RIGHT?!!!
The greed of Mr.Bill is creating this problem and confusion. Just lower the price of the OS (it?s only an OS, for God?s sake!!!!) and people will buy it!
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Contributr
Still not answering the question
Ed Bott 8th Jun 2007
Lower the price? Gine, let's say it's $50 instead of the $100 or so that a System Builder typically pays for Home Premium.

My original question still stands. Without some way to restrict the use of the product key, what is to stop a system builder from using a single key to install Windows on multiple machines? Are you saying that they would steal the software at $100 but would pay for it at a lower cost?
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WHAT dream world?
Resuna 8th Jun 2007
"I asked how this supposed dream world where media had no restrictions of any kind would work."

WHAT dream world?

That "dream world" is this world. That "dream world" is the rules that Microsoft was operating under up through Windows XP. Under those rules they managed to become the de-facto and de-jure monopoly operating system company, the de-facto monopoly office suite company, and build up a billion dollar war chest.

That "dream world" works perfectly well for Microsoft. They weren't suffering. They weren't losing money. They don't need to catch the last few percent of potential sales to continue to be immensely profitable, with margins that make anyone envious.

If that few percent isn't worth spending some money tracking down and taking legal action against unscrupulous box shifters directly, then it's not worth the billions of dollars it's going to cost Microsoft's *honest* customers before this plays out.
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Like locking your front door
Dr. John 8th Jun 2007
Just as locking your front door does nothing more than keeping the relatively honest out, WGA does nothing more than keep the relatively honest paying. Like gun control only manages to punish the honest by adding onerous hurdles to the purchase and use of firearms, WGA adds onerous hurdles to the installation and use of legally acquired goods.

As long as there are dishonest people, there will be pirating. It's a simple fact of life, and part of the cost of doing business. Software cannot be secured against pirating without locking it down to the point of being useless to the honest buyer.
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Well, I have an idea...
mustang_z 8th Jun 2007
Remember when each processor chip was going to get its own identification number so a pc could be identified? I think they still do but the unique ID chip is disabled by default in the BIOS, I believe.

Now I know that many will scream and yell about privacy but are they NOT identified as individuals via birth certificates, social security cards, driver licenses, work badges, and for suspected crimes via finger prints, photographs and DNA? The identification process of an individual is not an option but a requirement in order for those individuals to have or perform certain privileges or vocations. Not everyone can be a COP, doctor, lawyer or DEA agent, as examples. And ?we? would want to know that a COP is a COP! Wouldn?t we? Besides, those who yell and scream could run to Linux, if they find Windows usage requirements too invasive.

And since folks have made such a big stink about those cpu ID chips, Microsoft could require that various versions of Windows be registered to be used. During this registration a unique identification number or code could be generated at Microsoft and placed somewhere in the Windows folder (or a location unknown or inaccessible to the user) to identify that specific computer with a specific coded copy of Windows. When switched to another computer, the current copy would have to be unregistered first.

And YES, WGA and any other licensing schemes are designed to keep honest folks honest. Remove the schemes and you might be surprised how many "honest" folks think about getting a pirated copy, thus undermining Microsoft's revenue source, which is what keeps it healthy as a company.

The pirates are going continue until caught. Activation or registration is really not designed to stop them. Microsoft would have to make Windows totally unusable until activated or registered, which they could do but know that customers would be greatly upset by that. Those without Internet connections (I guess there are some still) would have to call Microsoft to activate and be given a code to be typed in to a dialog box before Windows could startup completely. (Isn't it nice that we, our corporations, believe the selfish individual customer is almost as important as itself?)

I believe that Microsoft, or any other company, has the right to protect it?s intellectual property ? its revenue source. This is NOT a new concept. happy
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Questioning the wrong answer
Ole Man 8th Jun 2007
Microsoft should ask a customer what he
wants instead of telling the customer
what Microsoft wants.

Questioning answers does not produce the
correct answers to questioning.
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What answer are you looking for?
daveklein 12th Jun 2007
The answer to the question is that making illegal copies of software is illegal and is punishable by law in most countries.

No physical mechanism in my car keeps me from driving 100 miles an hour on the Interstate, but I'm not going to do it because I might get caught.

That's the way consumers like it in this country. We want to be treated like honest individuals like most of us are. Will unscrupulous dealers and thieves take advantage of that? Probably. Will consumers respond by purchasing more if they have less hassle and more trust? Probably. I don't know which way will affect MS's bottom line the most, but I suspect the consumers would lose.

But at some point, I'm going to use the product that has the most positive effect on my bottom line, that's more efficient, that's easiest to use. Perhaps in the larger market there will be a tipping point in which the WGA no longer works and consumers will go elsewhere in droves. Clearly that's not today.

But it pretty much is for me.
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Been to a computer show recently?
mds_z 12th Jul 2007
Granted there aren't as many as there used to be. For a while after XP came out, machines all came with Windows 98. Why? Because it was easy to install a single licensed copy onto multiple machines (note that I NEVER say ME on these machines). Some vendors were honest enough to state that it was an "evaluation" copy" and to be legal, the OS would have to be purchased. But recently, I've seen more machines with XP on them. And I'm fairly certain that most of them aren't legitimately licensed. There are also used machines that have academic or volume licensed versions installed. I'm pretty sure that these aren't legal, since the person getting the machine isn't in any way, shape or form related to the owner of the license. And there are fixes out there to disable activation. Some don't work, but some do. So activation isn't stopping vendors who are less scrupulous.

So, in answer to your question, it works. Because it's more or less the world we've been living in for the last couple of decades. Windows 95 had huge sales and no real protection. Nor did 98 and ME. Neither did 2000, although sales were probably less. As one poster stated, MSFT isn't exactly facing bankruptcy in the near term.

I'm not defending piracy. I don't use unlicensed software. I believe in paying my way. If something is too expensive, I find other legal options. But people I know can't understand why computers have dropped in price, but the OS that most of them use hasn't and may now cost as much as the PC's hardware (hint: it's the difference between competition and the lack thereof).

WGA may prevent some people from becoming thieves. Then again, in some cases, it apparently forces people to buy an unneeded license. And most people I know buy the OS with the machine. So if the vendors are honest, then the copy is legit. If they aren't, it isn't. But making the end user go through hoops to activate and validate the machine ultimately alienates the customers who haven't done anything wrong, if there is a problem. It may catch others, but they are likely to be ones who wouldn't just buy the software in any case.
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According to the law, you are innocent until guilt is proven. According to Microsoft, you are guilty if they say so!

Microsoft has a right to protect what is their, (although much what they claim to be theirs is the work of others.)

Microsoft does not have a right to assume anytime someone changes a computer part or transfers ownership, that Microsoft may assume that person is a crook! Protecting their copyrights does not mean that Microsoft may harm others. Many of their protection schemes go way beyond resonable and are outright harmfull.

To cause others to lose the use of their computer because they may have a pirated copy is like arresting everyone in California until they prove they were not the one person who was speeding last Wednesday!.
I imagine that if MS offered a "free for non-commercial or private use license" version of Windows, then I bet 100% of OEM's would use it on computers sold.

M$ could charge a nominal monthly fee ($1) subscription for updates instead of HUGE $$ for overly restrictive licenses, and also lose the WGA crap at the same time.

A PRO version of the same software intended for commercial use (ie: needing to connect to an enterprise level network access controls.) might require registration online with MS beyond the update scheme (more $$ for the extra functionality is fair) and this would then allow the necessary tools to be download directly from MS, allowing MS 100% of control and knowledge of how many licenses have been sold, and who their customers are.

Wala. MS lowers the cost of technology ownership, has greater market penetration in emerging markets, and allows "the little guy" to breath easier.

In the past 3 months, I built two gaming PCs (both with X2 5600+ chips and SLI) and neither have Vista. I've transferred the retail upgrade copies of XP to the new boxes.

And my wife now wants a MAC. MS is pricing themselves out of the market, they are alienating their customers, and they are causing market anxiety.

btw - I can report something - first time it's happened that a MS rep has asked me when reactiving XP over the phone "did you buy this software from a store or did you get it with your computer?" I thought to myself "It's a retail upgrade copy of XP slipstreamed with service pack2 so I can install it on this 500M SATAII drive, and it's the same darn copy that I used to upgrade from Windows 98 in 2001. Where do you think I bought it Einstein?"

I think we agree that MS is going to experience serious customer flight in the next few years if they don't find a solution to this license mess, one that allows them to regain the trust of the market.

I don't think Ballmer has the guts personally. He doesn't trust the market, and the feeling is becoming more mutual.

Of course - folks could get the same stuff for zero cost from somebody else. It's only a matter of time before the market shifts, and MS doesn't know any better than to play defense when they should be on the offense IMHO.
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Nothign stops them now...
JustMichael 8th Jun 2007
Ed, I hate to tell you this, but I am here in the Philippines and (as in other countries in this area), you go to any computer store and buy a PC, you are GUARANTEED to get an illegal copy of Windows. In fact, you have to GO LOOKING for a real copy if you want to buy one. Heck, you can go into the mall and all the kiosks are selling pirated Windows for $1.50 per CD.

Previously we had to transfer licenses (as mentioned by a previous poster), and had to spend lots of time on lots of calls to MS getting them to OK the software moves (involving Windows and Office) when we got new computers (and we are an MS partner). It was really a nightmare, and took more than 10 man hours to get it all approved.

Can I bill someone for that? No, I can't. It's an additional cost I must pay for using MS products (and why 10 of our PC's went to Linux several months back). The deactivation scheme mentioned is an excellent idea, and why MS didn't do that, well, no answer would really be acceptable for MS customers.
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Inspections
Resuna 8th Jun 2007
Companies are perfectly willing to send secret shoppers out to verify that vendors are honoring their agreements over products that cost more to manufacture and sell for less than Windows. It's cheap, effective, and specifically targets the people violating their contracts. Why can't Microsoft do the same thing... it's not like their margins wouldn't cover the costs?

I'll tell you why... because people are willing to put up with stuff like WGA so they can play the next videogame, and it's even cheaper. When has Microsoft (or to be fair any other company) ever resisted pushing the costs of a policy onto their customers if they could get away with it... even if it costs more over-all to do it that way.
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Answer: Whistleblowers
Mercutio_Viz 8th Jun 2007
With no activation, what is to stop an unscrupulous system builder from just entering the same product key over and over again on a single copy of Windows and selling it to every customer who walks in the door?

Answer: One honest person who calls 1-888-NOPIRACY.

The formula is simple: even the unscrupulous system builder is trying to make money, so having the FBI raid your home and/or office is bad for business. We'll all concede that removing on-line registration will make it easier for some to sell pirated software, at least initially. However, what is gained by forcing all of the honest users to jump through flaming hoops at a three-ring circus? Not much - it just makes it incrementally more difficult for the pirate to acquire software to pirate.

Think about this - how difficult is it for the unscrupulous to acquire hacked/modified/read-to-be-pirated copies of Windows, Office, etc.? I'd wager it's incredibly simple now. Removing the registration process makes what is already very simple only slightly more simple.

The question Microsoft needs to ask themselves is one on ROI: are they getting bang for their buck? How much money do they invest in handling the registration process, having reps answer calls for registration, etc.? Balance that with people dropping MS products out of frustration, and the legit users' ill will toward MS for making life difficult for paying customers.

I think MS could make more money and prevent piracy by taking a more effective approach:
#1 - get rid of the registration process, freeing up potentially millions of dollars worth of employee time, servers & databases, etc.
#2 - use some money from #1 to hire some 'secret shoppers' who can pose as Joe Q. Customer trying to buy a computer with Windows/Office, etc. Instant whistleblowers! They can be trained in the art of gathering evidence, making prosecution of the unscrupulous ones more likely. (How would you like it if MS focused time, energy, money, and attention on the BAD GUYS instead of the legit users?!)
#3 - offer rewards for employees (not to mention ex-employees) who blow the whistle on corporate piracy. This would make it much less likely that the corporate IT departments would behave in an "unscrupulous" manner, i.e. buying one legit copy of Windows and installing it on 100 machines.

Bottom line: I respect the question you posed, but I don't think it's a very important one for the simple fact that registration is, at best, only marginally effective at preventing piracy.

Everyone who pays mega buck$ to MS for their products would much rather see MS focus on the bad guys instead of making life difficult for the good guys.

-MC
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Include Disk with sale of OEM computer
hdougp@... 8th Jun 2007
"With no activation, what is to stop an unscrupulous system builder from just entering the same product key over and over again on a single copy of Windows and selling it to every customer who walks in the door?"

Also, including the original disk with the computer when it is sold could greatly reduce the number of units on which a builder could use the same original. As a matter of course I have always asked for the original disks when I've purchased a computer. Had to go to a different store a couple time too happy
-DP
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Excellent point! (N/T)
Mercutio_Viz 8th Jun 2007
Excellent point! (N/T)
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Large oems..
johnfatz@... 9th Jun 2007
have agreements with Microsoft to provide customer support in exchange for a killer price on agreed upon OS configuration to be used.

Smaller OEM or system builders are required to include the COA and the disc with the OS preinstalled on the hard drive. But due to licensing are not allowed to make restore discs as the large OEMs can. Also the OS must be preinstalled with the support information of their business hours and contact information.

But the System Builder must build an image to pre-install the OS and from there it is loaded on the HDD. So as to including the disc with system, the large OEMs are not required (but usually is included with Pro version since business needs are different than the Home user), and the small system builder is already required to supply the COA sticker, OEM OS disc, and literature with a legal system.

As for WGA, it takes seconds to complete not minutes, and as for re-authorizing the OS due to hardware change, I have never had more than 5 minutes total to perform it on the phone. Any other information is just plain "that which comes out of the back end of a horse".

As for large Volume Licensing accounts that is another story, and as for a better way to determine what version is installed would be a great improvement if MS could give us the tools to do so.
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Court.
frgough 8th Jun 2007
The kind of piracy you are talking about is easy to find and shut down using
traditional law enforcement methods.

Punishing end users with an asinine activation scheme because an unscrupulous
builder is complete and utter BS.

It's no different than the police telling you you can't enter your house without their
permission because someone in the neighborhood MIGHT be a burglar.
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Uh... They already DO that...
Wolfie2K3 8th Jun 2007
With no activation, what is to stop an unscrupulous system builder from just entering the same product key over and over again on a single copy of Windows and selling it to every customer who walks in the door?

Ed...

When you buy a system from ANY major vendor, be it Dell, Gateway, HP/Compaq, Lenovo or anyone else, you get a machine with what amounts to a copy of Windows that has been setup with ONE key.

Case in point. I recently bought a used Gateway laptop that had it's hard drive wiped. I had to restore the hard drive using the included DVD that first restored the restore partition and the usual C: drive partition. At NO time did I get a prompt to type in the Windows product key from the sticker on the bottom of the laptop. Nor was I prompted to activate the license. I WAS, however, prompted only to REGISTER with Gateway and Microsoft.

Now then, you can't tell me that Gateway somehow manages to incorporate the product keys from the bottom of EACH and EVERY one of their laptops into EACH and EVERY restore disc. Especially when the DVD is of the factory STAMPED, not burned variety. That would be impossibly impractical and prohibitively expensive.

So, in effect, they have ONE image for each type of system and they use ONE CD key to preactivate their systems. And last I checked, Gateway is one of the "good guys". I can't see any of the other major vendors being all that much different.

And for what it's worth, the OS partition restored correctly, WGA got installed on the laptop during the first session with Windows Update and it passed WGA with flying colors - so I'm going to have to guess that Microsoft has given Gateway their blessing for this practice.
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Indeed they have
bill_sanderson@... 8th Jun 2007
Such an OS install is bios-locked. It is keyed to install on a Gateway machine. I haven't tested this, but I would not expect such media to install on a Dell, for example.

This is one reason for WGA--those keys don't get used in Activation, but they were required for WGA, in early iterations. I think this has been relaxed, though.
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Contributr
I know all about SLP
Ed Bott 8th Jun 2007
I've written some authoritative articles about it. You're taking about 20 or so very large companies with well-audited systems so that MS gets paid properly for every single copy sold. There's no comparison with the system I asked about, which involves a single sale and infinite copies.
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Uhhmmm...
Cardinal_Bill 8th Jun 2007
Why don't they just go after the unscrupulous system builder instead of the poor sap who bought it? Seems simpler...single point to fight with, etc. Yep, they lose some money in the license from the individual. But they just might gain some points for not going after the little guy like they do now.
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A system builder is one who may build and sell several pc's but to do so they must have a way of marketing and maintaining a market. To do that, they have to have a website, address or physical way of contacting which can be traced to a specific location. Microsoft has gone to a lot of extreme methods to sort these sellers out and prosecute them for doing exactly that. This leaves the buyer short but hey, anyone who chooses to buy from a fly by night website or a questionable builder, has little in the way of sympathy coming from me. If you can't build it yourself, buy what products you need to make it work the way you want it, then seek out a local builder and ask him to do it for you. He can provide you with a list or what is needed and either buy the items for you, maintain receipts and build it or tell you where to buy the parts and build it for you for an agreeable fee of course. Forget the pussy direct with rebates that have no real intentions of selling you their products for a high price and high rebate as the rebate is lost in the mail and you're out of more money than you should be.
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and if you ask 5 "experts" you get 5 differnt opinions. Even the MS folks can't get it right when asked.

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