ie8 fix
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Mozilla to enterprise customers: "Drop dead"

By | June 23, 2011, 7:57pm PDT

The Mozilla Corporation shipped Firefox 5 this week, almost exactly three months after it shipped Firefox 4.

Does that seem like an insane tempo? Ha! Fasten your seatbelts, because Mozilla plans to ship Firefox 6 in exactly six weeks, with Firefox 7 six weeks after that, and Firefox 8 … well, you get the idea. Not coincidentally, that release schedule perfectly matches up with browser archrival Google Chrome.

At that pace, in June 2014, a mere three years from now, Firefox will be on version 29.

If you’d prefer to opt out of that breakneck development cycle, Mozilla has some guidance for you: Fuggedaboutit.

Remarkably, that is Mozilla’s direct, uncensored response to its corporate partners.

If you are even considering migrating your business to Firefox, I strongly recommend you read two recent blog posts by consultant Mike Kaply.

Kaply, whose consulting company specializes in customizing Firefox for enterprises, calls the new rapid-release policy “a really bad idea.” The worst part is that with each new release, Mozilla is completely dropping support for the previous one.

Unlike consumers, who are thrilled at the chance to install new code every six weeks, enterprises crave stability:

Companies simply can’t turn around major browser updates in six weeks (and each one of these is a major update). With security releases, there was a reasonable expectation that web applications wouldn’t break as a result of changes. With these releases, there is no such expectation. So a full test cycle needs to be run with every release. By the time this cycle is completed and the browser is piloted and deployed, another version of Firefox would already be released so they’d already be behind.

In a follow-up post, Kaply quotes two fellow enterprise admins who are extremely worried about their ability to support Firefox.

So, has Mozilla reached out to Kaply to reassure him that they’ve got his back? No. In fact, Firefox evangelist Asa Dotzler showed up in the comments of Kaply’s post to tell him, bluntly, that he can expect zero support:

Mike, you do realize that we get about 2 million Firefox downloads per day from regular user types, right? Your “big numbers” here are really just a drop in the bucket, fractions of fractions of a percent of our user base.

Enterprise has never been (and I’ll argue, shouldn’t be) a focus of ours. Until we run out of people who don’t have sysadmins and enterprise deployment teams looking out for them, I can’t imagine why we’d focus at all on the kinds of environments you care so much about.

Some 14 hours later, after Kaply argues that Mozilla should “throw a few resources at [the problem] and try to solve it,” Dotzler doubles down:

A minute spent making a corporate user happy can better be spent making many regular users happy. I’d much rather Mozilla spending its limited resources looking out for the billions of users that don’t have enterprise support systems already taking care of them.

You hear that, enterprise admins? You don’t count, and Mozilla has no intention of supporting your extensive investments in testing browser releases before deployment. And if you think that’s just a misunderstanding, Dotzler wants to make it very, very clear that Mozilla is serious:

As for John’s concern, “By the time I validate Firefox 5, what guarantee would I have that Firefox 5 won’t go EOL [end of life] when Firefox 6 is released?”

He has the opposite of guarantees that won’t happen. He has my promise that it will happen. Firefox 6 will be the EOL of Firefox 5. And Firefox 7 will be the EOL for Firefox 6.

Back in March, when Firefox 4 was released, I looked at the browser space and concluded that Microsoft and Google were in a superb position to squeeze Firefox into irrelevance.

I didn’t count on Mozilla actively participating in its own annihilation.

In a world that will increasingly be defined by HTML5 apps, providing a stable channel for businesses is crucial. The response from other enterprise-focused customers in that thread is scathing.

Meanwhile, I hear maniacal laughter and sighs of relief coming out of Redmond, where Internet Explorer has just solidified its once-shaky position at the top of the enterprise heap.

Update: As of June 24, 2011, less than six weeks before the scheduled release of Firefox 5, this is the published product roadmap for that release:

  • TBD
  • TBD
  • TBD
  • …anything that improves responsiveness and is ready
  • …anything that improves stability and is ready
  • …anything that polishes the user interface and is ready
  • …anything else serving product priorities and is ready

That’s also the “roadmap” for versions 6 and 7, both due before the end of the year. If you’re developing on the Mozilla platform, is that enough information for you?

 

 

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Ed Bott is an award-winning technology writer with more than two decades' experience writing for mainstream media outlets and online publications.

Disclosure

Ed Bott

Ed Bott is a freelance technical journalist and book author. All work that Ed does is on a contractual basis.

Since 1994, Ed has written more than 25 books about Microsoft Windows and Office. Along with various co-authors, Ed is completely responsible for the content of the books he writes. As a key part of his contractual relationship with publishers, he gives them permission to print and distribute the content he writes and to pay him a royalty based on the actual sales of those books. Ed's books written prior to fall 2011 have been distributed by Que Publishing (a division of Pearson Education) and by Microsoft Press. As of November 2011, Ed is a partner in the independent publishing company Fair Trade Digital Exchange, which exclusively publishes his books.

On occasion, Ed accepts consulting assignments. In recent years, he has worked as an expert witness in cases where his experience and knowledge of Microsoft and Microsoft Windows have been useful. In each such case, his compensation is on an hourly basis, and he is hired as a witness, not an advocate.

Ed does not own stock or have any other financial interest in Microsoft or any other software company. He owns 500 shares of stock in EMC Corporation, which was purchased before the company's acquisition of VMware. In addition, he owns 350 shares of stock in Intel Corporation, purchased more than two years ago. All stocks are held in retirement accounts for long-term growth.

Ed does not accept gifts from companies he covers. All hardware products he writes about are purchased with his own funds or are review units covered under formal loan agreements and are returned after the review is complete.

Biography

Ed Bott

Ed Bott is an award-winning technology writer with more than two decades' experience writing for mainstream media outlets and online publications. He's served as editor of the U.S. edition of PC Computing and managing editor of PC World; both publications had monthly paid circulation in excess of 1 million during his tenure. He is the author of more than 25 books on Microsoft Windows and Office, including the recently released Windows 7 Inside Out.

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yes it is
emaleroland@... 14th Mar
And, it makes a failed argument for Firefox not being a player in that market. While enterprise may lead in giving us options in software, they're generally very vertical and bloat to others. You can't really compare IE to the other browsers because it's tied to the OS and the others do not want that liability. Hopefully, nobody at the enterprise level is arguing in favor of Chrome because it would never pass QC and with their recent policy change at Google, the search engine should not be a choice either.
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And people wonder why Internet Explorer isn't going anywhere in the enterprise. Internet Explorer supports more, is more customizable to enterprise needs and every install can be centrally managed via policy. I really don't get Mozilla's stance on this, it seems like they're taking 10 steps backwards.
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They're doing like Apple
Mikael_z 24th Jun
@jmiller1978
Picky enterprise-users are not interesting when they are just a tiny, almost indiscernible part of all possible users.

Apple understood a long time ago that the users at home all over the world are the ones to please to get success.

Just look at the success of Apple's i-products. happy
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Just look at the lack
sackbut 24th Jun
@Mikael_z --- of success for safari. itunes would be but a blip on the pages of software history were it not for the i-products.

Ed is talking about software, not hardware.
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RE: Mozilla to enterprise customers:
Fan_of_Tech Updated - 24th Jun
@Mikael_z

I work for a corporation. The last time I checked corporations with enterprise-users are a substantial driving force in the economy.

I have 2 computers at home and 2 at work. That's a 1-1 ratio if we don't talk about work phones, tablets, etc! I am fairly confident that enterprise users are a fair amount of the market share.

There is simply not enough time to test a new browser for active implementation that quickly in a corporate environment, especially if its updated every 6 weeks.
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Apple
davidr69 24th Jun
@Mikael_z
Apple actually charges for their products. Plus, it IS businesses who have sustained Apple. Find any reputable music studio - they're Apple and Pro Tools based. Film production? Apple. Graphics departments in corporations? Apple.
When there were no i* products, Apple stood alive because of paid products. I don't know of anyone who has paid for Firefox.
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RE: Mozilla to enterprise customers:
hayneiii@... 24th Jun
@Mikael_z Microsoft still dwarfs apple on the number of machines. Apple is bigger because of the hardware, Ipod, Iphone, and Ipad, not by being on more computers. This include the home computers as well.
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@Fan_of_Tech
You would be wrong in that assumption as the enterprise standards are IE still. i as a public user have about 30 computers myself plus smartphones and tablets and firefox is my prefered browser of choice on all. Now take all IT units and compared to all non IT machines out in use and let me know that ratio.
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@Mikael_z
What are you smoking? Have you not graduated from college yet and haven't join the work force??? You do know that enterprise users are what drives tech sales and microsoft's 90% share of desktop right? You sir have spent too much time breathing the air at apple stores. Its made you insane.
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@fletchguy

I?m not sure what assumption you are referring to? Corporate entities and enterprise-users make up a significant amount of any computer market. In our environment we deploy IE, not Firefox, as I would assume is true for many corporations.

Within the post I responding to, he was suggesting that Apple grew based on their software marketed to non-enterprise users. Apple survived based on their hardware which they chose to tie to their own software (iTunes, etc.) and their professional software (such as ?final cut? or ?pro-tools?). It was not their software that got Apple where they are. Regardless, enterprise and corporate users are still a large part of the overall numbers.

I?m assuming as a public user you are talking as a small business? I can?t imagine that you have 30 personal computers and multiple phones all for yourself; they are most likely for employees and are a part of a business. Regardless of what you run on them, they aren?t your personal computers and would still leave a reasonable work to home computer ratio.
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You have to please both
Will Pharaoh 24th Jun
@Mikael_z
Apple got lucky they hit onto something at the right time, but they in a sense got help from the carriers and internet adoption - alot of things had to fall intoplace for smartphones to be a success, and they did.

But for years they scorned the enterprise and it cost them quite alot.

You can say that "Apple understood the consumers" but that's hindsight, an easy thing to say today. History shows that for 15 years that if they understood the home users why such a tiny percentage of the market?

Mozzilla has to keep both happy.
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RE: Mozilla to enterprise customers:
Amanda123456 23rd Aug
vintage airstream
let me inform you, you have got hit the nail on the head. Your concept is outstanding; the difficulty is one thing that not sufficient people are speaking intelligently about
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Interesting post. I have been wondering about this issue,so thanks for posting. Cheap Car Rental London
  • Flagged
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RE: Mozilla to enterprise customers:
Amanda123456 15th Sep
here is the same, I dont see any differance. Maybe they just repair their bugs? Dissertation Help
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RE: Mozilla to enterprise customers:
Amanda123456 18th Sep
This is my first time i visit here. I found so many entertaining stuff in your blog, especially its discussion.
Dissertation Help
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RE: Mozilla to enterprise customers:
john7334 Updated - 18th Oct
@Mikael_z Yeah, Apple has been able to narrow down its market it nail it down. A very good lesson for any business. Reverse Cell Phone Lookup | Landscape Lighting | Outdoor Patio Lights
@jmiller1978: ... with all these numbers of versions jumping. So enterprises just treat this 5.0 release as 4.1 release and that is it -- mostly bug-fixes and very minor feature update.

While Mozilla does not really steps backward, it does not step forward in direction of enterprises either. Though, they can not do much about it since Microsoft is obviously not going to support enforce of Firefox policies from Windows Server.
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RE: Mozilla to enterprise customers:
GoodThings2Life 24th Jun
@DeRSSS ... Treating releases as .1 releases would work fine except that they're making major changes to their rendering engines in the process which really negates that consideration.

It's also more than just the release pace too. Ed didn't even bring up the issue of being able to "lockdown" the browser via Group Policy to prevent users from installing things they ought not install.
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Microsoft doesn't have to
LiquidLearner 24th Jun
@DeRSSS

Anyone can write an .adm file for group policy management for their application. They do exist for Firefox as well as Chrome. But this is insane. "The Billions of consumers". Really? Billions? Wow, that's impressive. Considering there aren't "billions" of computers worldwide. I'm not sure why your answer to any customer would be "piss off".
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@DeRSSS
I disagree. If you stop supporting the previous version, you just did a major breaking change, no matter how you try to spin it.
What this really means is that Mozilla cannot cope with providing any sort of service level agreement demanded by Enterprise, whereas the poor home user will just take what you throw at them. Trouble is, Enterprises are the places that develop the websites! Are they going to continue testing their sites with constantly changing Firefox versions? More likely we will start to see the dreaded "Please download a compatible browser" messages coming back.
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RE: Mozilla to enterprise customers:
neilpost Updated - 24th Jun
@jmiller1978
IE is not more customisable, it just doesn't break the ****** Intranet somone built for you, doesn't break the Web Reporting Services front-end no-one can find the source code for, ad nauseum..............

Which IE8 onwards
Chrome
Safari
Opera
Firefox

do............

down to crappy/incompetant programmers doing shonky code and sites.
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@neilpost
What are you talking about? I'm a web developer and i can assure you that making a web application work on Firefox it's a lot easier that making it work in IE.

The reason why most of the "new" applications only works fine in IE it's because the companies DEMAND IT.
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@jmiller1978
Mozzila is a public browser standard company. They are correct in the idea that with limited funds you cater to your masses of customers rather then a smaller market when you have only so much money for developemnt. He is not saying enterprise is unimportant just that mozilla has to get the biggest bang for it's buck which means the main users who are not enterprise. If they had bigger funds they could have a specialized team for enterprise but when you either pay you house payment or buy new sod for the yard you pay the house payment to keep a roof over your head. If they take away from the core target users to ssatisfy a smaller group then they loose out to bigger money browsers like google and microsoft and that can't happen.
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@jmiller1978
enterprise operations are very different from the market that Firefox serves. They don't WANT new features, or industry changing technologies. They want something that only rarely changes, and they want to CONTROL everything. This is inconsistent with the fast moving browser market, and Mozilla doesn't have the time, or personnel to serve that kind of vastly different market. Funny no one seems to be saying that Google Chrome is ignoring the enterprise market. Does anyone think that Safari is ignoring the enterprise market?
Mozilla has limited resources, and they have to allocate them carefully.
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sorry dude
emaleroland@... 14th Mar
That makes no sense. Mozilla can't serve the enterprise level that wants very few changes because they're not big enough yet they can serve the non-enterprise users who want constant changes because they're smaller? Seems to me, the enterprise user would be what they should target since they're smaller and have to make less of an effort to satisfy them. I disagree with your premise but that's what you're saying. You're just saying it backwards to the way it makes sense to me.
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@jmiller1978 A better browser is a better browser, I'm sure many of the addons will still work, and be backward compatible. If the enterprises were smart they would develop custom addons that would follow along with the upgrade cycle no matter what they name it.
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Of course, you mean IE6...
cosuna 26th Jun
@jmiller1978 : Internet Explorer is going somewhere, definitely out!

It used to be that Microsoft ought for a stable route, like the one you mentioned. Until IE7, which was just a nonsense release with only last minute "enhancements" and no real improvement (just like Vista).

Microsoft saw that it was ill received and get back to the drawing board and created IE8. Much better, but still no IE6.

When things started to make sense, then came the Win 8 people (apparently the DirectUI guys) and created IE9, which only runs on Vista and 7 and totally recreates the browser. So if you're an enterprise, you're basically out of the migration, if you still have a mixed XP/Vista/7 setup.

So, of course, Ed's gonna cry foul when Mozilla does it, but when MS does it, it's perfectly fine.

Ed, quit the FUD and start learning true journalism.
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ahh you're so glam ! 3 chanel ********
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RE: Mozilla to enterprise customers:
reginebautista 7th Nov
freepuzzlegameonline.com / full-house-design.com

Free Puzzle Games
House Design
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Google?
aaron44126 23rd Jun
Um, doesn't Google have a very similar stance with their browser? Yeah, they do have some enterprise-friendly stuff (limited control via group policy, and an MSI installer). But they also drop a new major version every 6-8 weeks and they also don't support anything except the most recent release with security updates. They've been doing this for about a year (a year ago we had Chrome 5 and now we have Chrome 12) and it's been working out great for them.
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RE: Mozilla to enterprise customers:
danstl Updated - 23rd Jun
@aaron44126

Yes ! We have been managing Chrome deployments for a while now and have not had any issues - the GPOs are getting better and better with each release and give many options - pre-loading extensions, plugin settings, password/form control, etc... We still have IE on all machines as well, but default browsers are all chrome. Unless things have changed with Firefox - the biggest issue I see is the in-ability to have clients update without admin priv. (I know you can do a non-admin install, but that does not work well for a managed environment). Google update really works well, and other software should use similar methods - ADOBE anyone... I really hate using SCCM/WSUS to push out damn adobe updates every week

-Dan
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I use Chrome
emaleroland@... 14th Mar
but I have lots of issues with it and the main one is the memory leakage and some sites just don't work with it and no errors to let me know. So, I use 3 browsers. I have to have IE for intranet and ActiveX but Firefox is always more compatible on the net when Chrome isn't.

However, with Google changing it's privacy policy, I now mainly just use Chrome for Google Apps, which I only use for mail.
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RE: Mozilla to enterprise customers:
GoodThings2Life 24th Jun
@aaron44126 ... Just having a Group Policy feature is a huge benefit to Chrome. At least this way, administrators can block out installation of addons and such which greatly minimizes the impact of these major updates. It does NOT, however, change the fact that web developers can't keep up with the rendering engine changes meaning administrators have to keep testing these major releases. So GPO on its own isn't quite enough for many environments, although for many of us (certainly in my own case) it gets the job done. (Though admittedly, I don't trust Chrome for other reasons.)
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One question, why is it necessary for Enterprise to upgrade with every Firefox release? is there any strong reason why they can't skip version and say move to Firefox 7 from 4 directly?
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RE: Mozilla to enterprise customers:
Cylon Centurion Updated - 23rd Jun
@jeanshack

Support. You will never find an Enterprise running software that is no longer supported by its developers.

EDIT: Well, maybe some legacy software. But the main reason is support.
@Cylon Centurion
When I read the first part of your post, I was thinking, "Enterprises run software that is no longer supported all the time, just not software that faces the Internet." Then I saw your edit and knew that you realized your statement had been too much of a blanket one. happy
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RE: Mozilla to enterprise customers:
notme403@... 24th Jun
@Cylon Centurion
You said, "You will never find an Enterprise running software that is no longer supported by its developers."

I say, "Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!"
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Perhaps your employer would do well
ego.sum.stig@... 24th Jun
If they rightsized you. After all, you seem to have this fictitious belief that Enterprises care about "being current."

Mind you, you're always good for a chuckle, nay a guffaw, but not while trying to drink.
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RE: Mozilla to enterprise customers:
Cylon Centurion 25th Jun
@Everyone

Well, it's true. Maybe not current current, but you'll never find an business running unsupported software on the front end of things. You'll find some out of date software in the company, but nothing that regularly interacts with something outside the network.

It's too much of a security risk. Just look at what happened with Google when a careless employee used IE6 to access the Internet: China showed up.

Bam.
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and because you're obviously omnipotent ...
thx-1138_@... Updated - 26th Jun
@Cylon Centurion ... you're obviously in a position to know what every enterprise / organization / SMB is currently doing.

It must get a 'little overwhelming' knowing what everyone in the universe is doing and thinking at any given time.

(n.b. ...pfffffft)
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China will always show up
emaleroland@... 14th Mar
There's already knocking at the door. That has nothing to do with security. Your browser is not the only thing that puts you at risk of being on the net. Most infections on the net do not come from insecurities in the browser code itself.
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@jeanshack Security fixes will only be available in those releases. So if an enterprise chooses not to take those releases, they will be left insecure.

That's really the problem. There's no way to get security fixes without getting all the features and changes as well.
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@jeanshack One reason, 4 is no longer supported. Similarly, there's no assurance of support for a version as soon as the next one is out. Fx4 to Fx7 will be like IE6 to IE9, only the years turned into months. That is, the corporations running Fx4 will be like those running IE6 when Fx7 is released - outdated.
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So Firefox is now calling patches and minor updates new versions? Can't see the point, just like it's very hard to see any difference in 5.

FF use in enterprise has always just been paranoia caused by FUD.
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Good on you, Mozilla
mistercatworks@... 23rd Jun
jeanshack is right on - no one is holding a browser to your head and forcing you to upgrade. If the new features aren't worth it, don't buy in. I'm not sure about that consumers loving new code stuff but if your enterprise deals with its own customers who use Firefox, suck it up and patch your code. I don't even use Firefox but I can see that this is a non-story. The whole idea of "enterprise users" for a browser is ridiculous. The employees at every company download their browser of choice and except for those corporate sites where it won't work, stick with it. I don't know of any company having "browser police" who care how you get your web pages, as long as you don't come whining to IT on those occasions when it doesn't work. I've been in IT for fifteen years; I know what I'm talking about.
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@mistercatworks@...

Umm - most managed systems do not allow users to download their own software... just saying...
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true... but...
emaleroland@... 14th Mar
Most networks run on small businesses, not enterprise level and most of them are 3rd party support. If you're big enough to have an IT department, OK, you can put better security in place, but if you're not... Even so, I've seen very few enterprise level corps that actually evaluate everything before deployment. They are ALWAYS behind or they pass it because otherwise, that security fix makes them vulnerable. They pass it on the honor system it's not going to break anything else, it's going to fix what it says and not make a bigger hole.
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@mistercatworks@...

Yes they are. If you don't upgrade the browser, you don't get security patches. That's just not generally an option.
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so...
emaleroland@... 14th Mar
how does that make Firefox worse than Chrome? How many versions back does Chrome support?
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@mistercatworks@...
For most of the companies I've worked for, it would be a sackable offence to download and install and application on a company computer.

Plus, we use Terminal Servers here, which means that the users cannot simply install a new version.

On the other hand, FF4 is no longer supported (no security updates to fix known flaws allowing exploits), which means we cannot leave it on our servers... But it will take time to evaluate FF5. By the time FF5 is evaluated and installed, FF6 will be out and FF5 won't be getting any security fixes, so we'll have to take that offline and start from scratch.

That would probably mean that users would be able to use Firefox for a week or so every 6 weeks, not an option.

Even the likes of Ubuntu realise that it is not practical to continually bring out new versions and abandon their previous versions. That is why they keep releasing versions with extended support, so that it can be used in the enterprise.

Enterprises have better things to do with their time than continually re-evaluate Firefox.
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Hmmm
emaleroland@... 14th Mar
So, you're saying you do not allow ANY software to autoupdate? You do realize you're at just as much risk with patch or update as you are with an upgrade, maybe even more so, because the patch/update is generally bug fixes. If they can't get it right the first time, what gives you the warm and fuzzy, the second time is the charm? I thought was exclusive for the third?
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yes it is
emaleroland@... 14th Mar
And, it makes a failed argument for Firefox not being a player in that market. While enterprise may lead in giving us options in software, they're generally very vertical and bloat to others. You can't really compare IE to the other browsers because it's tied to the OS and the others do not want that liability. Hopefully, nobody at the enterprise level is arguing in favor of Chrome because it would never pass QC and with their recent policy change at Google, the search engine should not be a choice either.

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