Vista scare stories distort the real picture
Summary: Playing the old “I Googled this and got x gazillion pages back” game can be hazardous to the rest of your argument. That's what I discovered when I tried to find out more about an alleged performance flaw in IE7.
Playing the old “I Googled this and got x gazillion pages back” game can be hazardous to the rest of your argument. Today’s case in point comes courtesy of my blogging colleague, friend, and neighbor Marc Orchant, who wrote this chilling headline earlier today:
Vista IE7 issue remains unsolved for many users
The post itself, however, is based on a single anecdote, passed along secondhand. So where's the evidence that this is a widespread and unsolved problem affecting many users? Marc says only, “Problems like this are all too common and are being widely reported and discussed in the tubes. Do a search and you’ll see what I mean.”
That’s not exactly the strongest argument, and in the post’s accompanying Talkback thread a commenter asks the obvious question:
Why does this article's title say "for many users"? This is one guy's particular experience, and nowhere does he suggest that he has found other people encountering this same problem.
To which Marc replies:
Read my post again. Do a search in whatever engine you prefer for "Vista IE7 hang". It's not me generalizing from one person's experience. There were, at the time I posted this comment, about 362,000 results for that query. Even reducing that number This is not one person's issue as I said in my post. This is a pervasive problem affecting many people.
Oh dear. Whenever I try this argument it rarely ends well. Let’s see how it goes today for Marc. I tried Vista IE7 hangs (without quotes) and got 284,000 results. With Vista IE7 hang I got 368,000. (Does this mean the problem has gotten worse in the last six hours?)
Those are pretty damning Google results, right? Uh, maybe not. If that’s the new metric for product quality, there’s a long list of things you’re going to have to stop using before you get around to Windows Vista. Try a few of these searches for yourself:
Vista Firefox hang / Vista firefox hangs – 828,000 – 842,000 results
Safari hang / Safari hangs – 1,640,000 – 1,730,000 results
Ubuntu hang / Ubuntu hangs – 1,020,000 – 1,040,000 results
Tivo hang / Tivo hangs – 1,150,000 results
In fact, maybe the definitive search is this one:
computers hang – 3,520,000 results
At least in my experience, the smarter a device thinks it is, the more likely it is to hang, with or without the help of a browser. I’ve seen nothing to suggest that there’s a widespread problem with IE7. In fact, if you want a firsthand report to balance out the story Marc passes along, here’s my story.
On December 13, 2006, I upgraded my wife’s Dell Inspiron 6400 notebook (Intel Core 2 Duo, 1GB of RAM, 120GB hard drive) from XP Home to Vista Business. It’s been in continuous service ever since. Here’s what the Reliability Monitor looks like for this machine:
That perfect 10 is an accurate reflection of this portable PC's performance. It’s been rock steady for nearly eight full months, running Outlook 2007 (synced with a Windows Mobile SmartPhone), Word 2007, IE7, and a handful of other programs regularly. I’m the IT guy in this two-person office, and I simply don’t have to worry about this machine. Every other week, Judy asks me to explain some confusing dialog box, but I haven’t had to do anything other than routine maintenance on this system since New Year’s Day. It just works.
Now, I’m not suggesting that these two stories balance each other out or that either one has any significant evidentiary value on the question of Windows Vista’s reliability and performance over a larger sample size. But the two stories do accurately represent two typical buckets of Windows early adopters. Those who tried to retrofit Vista onto older hardware might have mixed results, especially when the target hardware is exotic, like the Toshiba Tablet PC in the example Marc points to. By contrast, if you use well-supported hardware and take the most basic precautions, you can have a nearly perfect experience.
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Talkback
My favorite is ....
It gets worse...
122,000 hitsd.
I am so busted.
you'd better reboot Ed
Ursulus
PS Ursulus Hangs gets 815 hits.. I'm famous!
Bill Gates Hangs
I think we have clearly showed that google, bless its cotton socks, can't be used like this.. it reminds me of all those 'statistics' we've had thrown at us for ever to prove or disprove this or that.. showing only the top of the graph, or distoring the information in other ways.. the original article was trying to make a point, and as is often the case, in lieu of real information, false statistics, were used.
It's a funny old world..
Ursulus
change the search to ... "Ubuntu 7.04 hang(s)"
Oh Jeez...he' just making a point
Good post. It's fine to bash but there needs to be specifics
Good Point as always from both of you.
You should know you can't boot all linux distro's
This works in reverse as well
IE7 Problems
IE7 and the whole plug-in / helper-app model needs major rework. I had IE7 crash immediately for over 3 weeks if I hit a web page that had a flash animation or caused a new window to spawn via a link (I guess a javascript issue maybe).
Reinstalling flash didn't help (and Adobe's stupid webside doesn't allow a user to load an older version of flash) and MS updates didn't do the trick. Then finally something updated itself and the problem went away after almost a month.
Give me a break. There is no way IE should be allowed to crash due to a plug-in.
Did *un*-installing Flash help?
I encountered some somewhat-frequent hangs on one of my Vista boxes. I had a hunch it was Flash... and after disabling it (in Managa Addons), I haven't had one hang since.
And, I don't know how you propose IE not crashing due to poorly-written plugins. Even Firefox doesn't make that claim. It's binary code running in IE's address space, meaning it can pretty much do anything.
Unless you propose running each plugin in a separate process (EXE)... which would balloon memory usage and slow down browsing to a crawl.
Uninstall + Disable
If I had to guess, I would bet money on Flash being the culprit for most of it.
As for your comment of each helper running in it's own process, why not? I practically need 2 gigs of ram on a Vista machine anyway, and if the helper only spawned a process when needed then really you might only have one or two extra processes running. I would bet on average, it would be flash most of the time.
The browser is more and more becoming a platform for running other apps and has the charactersitics of a mini-OS. I think it is time to give it some enhanced robustness.
Still a lot of problems with Vista
supporters, No_Fax:
http://talkback.zdnet.com/5208-11535-0.html?forumID=1&threadID=37011&messageID=680486&start=-9954
"Many more Vista and MS woes.
Hey, I like Windows in general and think
highly of XP (SP2) but I have to agree that
Vista has some very large and time consuming
issues."
Did you even read Ed's article.
How can that be?
He is well on the way.(nt)
You're right...
Problem is you have to consider the source.
I agree totally...