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Vista WGA problems confirmed

By | February 26, 2007, 1:34pm PST

Summary: I’ve seen Vista’s new WGA problems up close and personal, and I’ve got the screenshots to prove it. Why are some programs able to convince Windows that the operating system has been tampered with? Why is Windows Defender allowing them to do it? And what can you do if you’re caught in the crosshairs?

This morning I reported on Vista activation and validation problems I've been hearing and reading about in the last few weeks. This afternoon I have a firsthand report.

When I installed a beta version of Acclaim's 9Dragons role-playing game (protected, apparently, by nProtect's GameGuard anti-cheating software), Vista dropped a bomb on me. A time bomb, that is. The software convinced the Windows Software Licensing service that the operating system was being tampered with, deactivating the system and starting a 72-hour countdown to "reduced functionality mode." This image gallery documents the process:

I'm baffled that this Windows error message doesn't actually mention Windows. It just says "your license" and "your software." How am I supposed to know which license and which software. And in the left-hand-meet-right-hand department, where's Windows Defender in all this? I'm installing a piece of software that is tampering with my operating system, according to the Windows Software Licensing module. So why is Windows Defender looking the other way while this dastardly deed is being done? Why doesn't it detect and block this software?

In this case, closing the game and restarting the computer allowed me to reactivate over the Internet, but other people haven't been so lucky, based on reports filed at Microsoft's Vista Validation Issues forum.

For the record, I think Acclaim deserves a share of the blame for this problem. This problem has been known for a month, maybe much longer. When I installed the 9Dragons software today, it auto-updated itself to the latest version. Supposedly, nProtect has had a patch available for some time, so why doesn't Acclaim include it?

Still, shifting the blame around is cold comfort to a Windows user who downloads and installs a perfectly innocent-looking program only to discover that they've actually pulled the pin on a grenade that will go off in 72 hours unless it's disarmed.

 

So far, it looks like most of these problems respond to simple treatment: uninstall the game or program and reactivate, by phone if necessary. Still, it's a hassle to deal with, and nontechnical users are likely to be thoroughly confused.

I was fortunate enough not to reach "reduced functionality mode." Adrian Kingsley-Hughes has an excellent image gallery showing exactly what that looks like. (Hint: not fun.)

I'm still waiting for a response from Microsoft.

Update 27-Feb-2007: Microsoft's David Lazar, Director of the Genuine Windows program, says a technical team is investigating this issue now. A Knowledge Base article on the subject (931699) was published on February 21 acknowledging the existence of the problem and listing options for fixing the damage. I'll be speaking with him and others later this week and will post a follow-up then.

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Ed Bott is an award-winning technology writer with more than two decades' experience writing for mainstream media outlets and online publications.

Disclosure

Ed Bott

Ed Bott is a freelance technical journalist and book author. All work that Ed does is on a contractual basis.

Since 1994, Ed has written more than 25 books about Microsoft Windows and Office. Along with various co-authors, Ed is completely responsible for the content of the books he writes. As a key part of his contractual relationship with publishers, he gives them permission to print and distribute the content he writes and to pay him a royalty based on the actual sales of those books. Ed's books written prior to fall 2011 have been distributed by Que Publishing (a division of Pearson Education) and by Microsoft Press. As of November 2011, Ed is a partner in the independent publishing company Fair Trade Digital Exchange, which exclusively publishes his books.

On occasion, Ed accepts consulting assignments. In recent years, he has worked as an expert witness in cases where his experience and knowledge of Microsoft and Microsoft Windows have been useful. In each such case, his compensation is on an hourly basis, and he is hired as a witness, not an advocate.

Ed does not own stock or have any other financial interest in Microsoft or any other software company. He owns 500 shares of stock in EMC Corporation, which was purchased before the company's acquisition of VMware. In addition, he owns 350 shares of stock in Intel Corporation, purchased more than two years ago. All stocks are held in retirement accounts for long-term growth.

Ed does not accept gifts from companies he covers. All hardware products he writes about are purchased with his own funds or are review units covered under formal loan agreements and are returned after the review is complete.

Biography

Ed Bott

Ed Bott is an award-winning technology writer with more than two decades' experience writing for mainstream media outlets and online publications. He's served as editor of the U.S. edition of PC Computing and managing editor of PC World; both publications had monthly paid circulation in excess of 1 million during his tenure. He is the author of more than 25 books on Microsoft Windows and Office, including the recently released Windows 7 Inside Out.

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RE: Vista WGA problems confirmed
beijing2008 14th Sep
I hope this article will be better. Chanel New Bags
View in thread
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"Windows was deactivated due to a hardware change"??!
Sabz5150 26th Feb 2007
Do what? Are you telling me that Vista will pitch a fit and stop working if I upgrade the PC it's running on?

Dunno about you, but if my car told me it wasn't going to start because I upgraded the stereo, I would run towards the nearest living thing and kill it.

Software will trigger it too? That is just pure nonsense.
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This does seem outrageous
Leria 26th Feb 2007
This does seem extremely outrageous. There wasn't any hardware change, there was a fracking SOFTWARE change!

Something tells me that WGA is a LITTLE too picky about software and registry key changes somehow.

I have a game that also uses Nprotects system, from WildGames. It's a good thing I didn't go out and buy Vista immediately, if it was going to do this.
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The truth
frgough 27th Feb 2007
The truth is, MS assumes you are a thief. The software triggered the de-activation
because Windows thought it was trying to hack your system files to remove the WGA
protection.

Remember, the ONLY thing that will get MS to break it's Tuesday patch cycle is a
hack to its DRM.
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What kind of hardware?
Bushta 27th Feb 2007
If software will trigger it, what about USB devices like external DVD writers or printers?
How long does it take to validate Vista on a dialup 24k connection?
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Never mind the hardware...what about the soft?
jinko 2nd Mar 2007
How long will it be before we see the first "prank" programs which do this to Vista?

Six months from now I predict a steady stream of Vista deactivation programs circulating on the net.
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Worse than pure nonsense
jt@... 27th Feb 2007
When I pay for something, I require that it work, and specifically forbid that it be designed to not work because I MIGHT have been up to something. What this amounts to is that everyone who DID buy the software has to be put through changes to USE what they paid for... because of those who did not buy the software and (may) be running illegal copies. Fankly, not my problem. I paid you. I expect, nay, REQUIRE working software. Now. Immediately and always. Maybe I don't have teh time to spare to go F around with verifying, validating, etc. Murphy's Law will insist upon me being on a deadline/run when something like this pops up.

Unacceptable, Mr. Gates. You have all the money and programmers in the world, and this sort of heavy-handed BS is the best protection you could come up with for your OS? I'd rather have a dongle!
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Microsoft has gone over the edge
Morey Copeland 27th Feb 2007
That's why I bought a new IMac. I run parallels (WinXP) occasionally for those Windows Apps I need once in a while. However, I do all my browsing, email, photo-editing etc on the Mac. No viruses, worms etc. And the stuff works first time!
What a concept!
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good so far except ....
oldheretic 1st Mar 2007
now windows XP has the update WGA and failures happen to Windows running under paralels on the same basis as any other machine. Yes, I know Windows under plls has been more reliable because there is a real operating system performing I/O, however, the long reach of WGA will now affect you too. We have 2 programs that only run on windows that we still have no alternative for on mac or linux, so we have to keep a couple of copies running. Already triggered WGA tonight and we think it was transferring a USB headset (not sure).
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if we wanted a mac
SO.CAL Guy 1st Mar 2007
i had a mac and they are idiot boxes i like having chose about the app's i use and there are to few for apple and i had my problems with mac and if mac had more than a 2.5 percent of computer users trust me they would be having viruses worms and all the nasties windozz does right now it's just not worth the writers time and effort to write them for mac
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Re: "Windows was deactivated due to a hardware change"??!
dan2003uk 27th Feb 2007
I posted something similar in the thread under the image gallery of this story.

Why should it matter if you upgrade your pc, replace the graphics card or whatever, Vista shouldnt stop working because of that. Vista sucks and I won't be touching it with a 60 foot pole anytime soon.
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But you agreed
drew@... 27th Feb 2007
While I agree that WGA is unreasonably harsh here is a quote from the license agreement that YOU agreed to: "Some changes to your computer components or the software may require you to reactivate the software."

It goes on to explain but you get the idea.

I'd sure like to see license control that actually works.
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This is not new.
msalzberg 1st Mar 2007
XP would do the same thing. If you changed enough of the hardware (and Microsoft
would never say how much that was), XP assumed it was running (illegally) on a
computer other than the one for which it was licensed.
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In SANSKRIT language VISA means ****
Web Smart 3rd Mar 2007
Now you know why MS VISTA behaves like that too. All Microsoft always enjoy is making using end-users as beta testers. They have never tested anything inhouse prior to release. What is evident to people in just a week's use was not caught when Microsoft's programmers or approvers or beta-testers tested it.

They have stopped to think coherently in trying to apply various stupid laws and restrictions on users. The future is no more unpredictable for them.
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RE: Vista WGA problems confirmed
beijing2008 14th Sep
I hope this article will be better. Chanel New Bags
0 Votes
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Blame
Harry Bardal 26th Feb 2007
The tolerance that technical users have of these kinds of issues is far greater than
that of non-technical users. The ability to diagnose and solve these kinds of
problems isn't something everyone has pursued. They may have had better things to
do. To them, a problem like this is not an intriguing puzzle to solve.

I'm not suggesting anyone is taking the wrong tone; but there has to be some
advocacy on behalf of those who can't make it to the lofty threshold where blame is
assigned.
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Contributr
I agree completely
Ed Bott 26th Feb 2007
Somewhere (or, more accurately, everywhere) in this process there has to be an Easy button for those who are truly innocent victims.
0 Votes
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However...
zkiwi 26th Feb 2007
If there was an "easy button," doesn't that just demonstrate that this whole new improved WGA thing was a monumental waste of time?

For me, I think considering the amount of money they pumped into developing Vista something as fundamental to its operation as WGA is should have been tested to the limits. But, it seems that they are only now realizing that it sucks. Now that's probably enough for someone to decide to try and press a class action suit against Microsoft.

Also, and somewhat tangentially, people have been complaining about Vista and hardware issues. Perhaps the "why" the hardware people haven't done much with Vista is because they saw the WGA fiasco happening before Microsoft did, and have decided to wait until things get to a stage where it's worth their while developing "Vista compliant" drivers etc.
0 Votes
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Vista and hardware issues
msolgeek 26th Feb 2007
"Perhaps the "why" the hardware people haven't done much with Vista is because they saw the WGA fiasco happening before Microsoft did, and have decided to wait until things get to a stage where it's worth their while developing "Vista compliant" drivers etc."

These vendors probably couldn't develop drivers because each time they went to test the driver, WGA kicked them out and after 10 or 20 times, MS wouldn't even let them activate over the phone. How much does it cost to develop software for an OS that will constantly tell you that you're a pirate and need to buy (another) license?

No wonder there is no software for Vista!

LOL
0 Votes
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Oh, please...
uno@... 27th Feb 2007
Not even Microsoft should do something like that.
They know they need to have the developers on their side. I'm quite certain that this only happened in your imagination.

However, the vulnerability of the licensing system is a very real problem. The problem in the article was an accident caused without malice. What if somebody actually was out to get them.

It is quite clear that Microsoft have been too concerned about protecting their software, and too little protecting their customers.
0 Votes
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Not even Microsoft should do something like that...
msolgeek 28th Feb 2007
Well there's a great number of things that MS just shouldn't do, but they have anyway. What makes you think that this is just imaginary? Have you ever develop drivers for any flavor of NT (this includes NT, W2K, XP, or Vista)?

Windows driver development is real unpretty stuff and if the driver you're rolling and testing causes the system to think it's been tampered with, well guess what? You're reactivating, like it or not. There is no more intrusive way to tamper with Windows than to write and debug a driver for it.

Now some might go as far as to say that they should be running a virtualized "Vista" so you can reset the VM and go back in time easily like apps developers usually do. But you can't debug hardware specific drivers from a VM. So every d@mn time you do something that makes Vista think you're tampering, you gonna get to reactivate. Now does that seem fun?

Maybe MS releases a Vista debug kernel that bypasses the WGA for development, but that's risky for MS as that can get into the wild and let hackers do all kinds of things as well as become a source for piracy. So MS's gonna be real tight chested with that binary. I have my doubts that this is widely available to most hardware vendors.
0 Votes
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Easy Button
dolph0291 27th Feb 2007
Yeah, computer use should be like an easy button, with or without WGA. Why do so
many computer shops and "experts" recommend Windows? Job security. Lots of
service calls sure to come...
0 Votes
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*sigh*
xuniL_z 3rd Mar 2007
I know when you see something like this your heart skips a beat and elation runs through your veins, but there are nearly zero hardware vendors who "haven't done much" and most all involved are ready. This is just more of your usual spin. I would think you'd even get tired of yourself by now.

And to make things worse the problem was with the application and this could have been avoided.

I suppose MS has little chance of "restoring their honor" here as Google did after shutting business down for 24 hours however.
0 Votes
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Easy button
Suicida| 27th Feb 2007
We already have that its called OSX.

/just sayin'
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Bardal scores
klumper 26th Feb 2007
... as I nod in quiet and somewhat bemused astonishment. Succinct and dead on all at once.

Things like this are not funny at all. What Microsoft really needs to add to its WGA notifications is a big fat GO AWAY button. PRESS HERE [+]
0 Votes
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Every once in a while . . .
jlhenry62 28th Feb 2007
even people who are normally diametrically opposed can find common ground. This is one of those occasions. Personally I think MS has much to answer for concerning this travesty disguised as an OS . . . People shouldn't have to be techies to own a computer. This is exactly the kind of thing that will, if MS doesn't fix this NOW, will give Apple and the Linux crowd the opportunity to make some serious inroads against Windows, if they move quickly.
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So Ed...
Linux User 147560 26th Feb 2007
can you now understand the stance of a Linux user? Just imagine all the poor little old ladies that install a knitting program they bought... yes this is really a great display of customer care. devil
0 Votes
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hmm....
Badgered 26th Feb 2007
"Just imagine all the poor little old ladies that install a knitting program they bought"

I'm trying to imagine my "poor little old lady" mother trying to get Linux running on her PC to begin with. I'm not sure which would be worse, watching her try to DL and install Linux, and configure it for her PC... or deal with WGA puking.

I think it would be a tie.
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No, it'd be worse
zkiwi 26th Feb 2007
Because the little old lady would have paid money for Windows, whereas they would most likely not have paid anything for Linux (or at least a whole lot less than for Windows).
0 Votes
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Of course if the little old lady had Linux pre-installed
Michael Kelly 26th Feb 2007
that argument goes out the window.
0 Votes
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Absolutley correct
Badgered 26th Feb 2007
I haven't looked recently... how many PC's at BestBuy come with Linux preloaded?

My guess is she's be more likely to buy a Mac.
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Not if you took the time
Linux User 147560 26th Feb 2007
to help the little old lady out... devil
0 Votes
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Yes, but....
Badgered 27th Feb 2007
That was not the premise of your original statement. We are assuming the "poor little old lady" does not have someone to fall back on to get her knitting program, much less her OS to to run smoothly.

"Just imagine all the poor little old ladies that install a knitting program they bought"

Sorry, but Linux (unless she finds it preinstalled) won't fit the bill. A Mac would probably suit her best. Windows would do, but TBH since she wouldn't know how to deal with the WGA problem (assuming it arose at all), and its tendency to be attacked by malware and viruses... Windows probably wouldn't be the best OS for her.
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I don't
Linux User 147560 26th Feb 2007
devil
0 Votes
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Of course you don't. Your name gives your bias away (NT)
Badgered 27th Feb 2007
NT
0 Votes
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What ?
LightSpeed 27th Feb 2007
What are you talking about?
0 Votes
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ok....
Badgered 27th Feb 2007
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you didn't read the previous posts. Here's a quick summary....

Linux User 147560 said...

"So Ed... can you now understand the stance of a Linux user? Just imagine all the poor little old ladies that install a knitting program they bought... yes this is really a great display of customer care."

To which I said...

"I'm trying to imagine my "poor little old lady" mother trying to get Linux running on her PC to begin with. I'm not sure which would be worse, watching her try to DL and install Linux, and configure it for her PC... or deal with WGA puking.

I think it would be a tie."

To which Linux user 147560 said...

"I don't"

To which I said...

"Of course you don't. Your name gives your bias away"

To which you said....

"What are you talking about?"


Now, which part didn't you understand?
0 Votes
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I Stand Erected
LightSpeed 27th Feb 2007
You're right. I got lost in the tree. I thought this was
a reply to the main article.
I would have deleted this post shortly after scruitinizing
the whole thread. The "Light" has been getting dim.....
my appologies.
0 Votes
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No problem, happy to clarify (NT)
Badgered 27th Feb 2007
NT
0 Votes
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My mom would handle it as usual
merc2dogs` 27th Feb 2007
Pick up the phone an call me.

First computers I set up for my mom and sister were dual boot, 98 and Mandrake. they used mandrake mostly for online use, and 98 for games etc.

Ken.
0 Votes
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why....
ambercromby 27th Feb 2007
I would like to see that same little old lady download and install any Windows OS.

You can get pre-installed linux systems too.
0 Votes
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Where?
Badgered 27th Feb 2007
I'm not doubting you, I just haven't seen them.
0 Votes
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It's not that hard...
Sxooter_z 27th Feb 2007
Yeah, Knoppix is so hard to use. Put it in, turn on the machine, wait 4 minutes, use the machine. Grandma will be stumped.
0 Votes
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RE: Grandma will be stumped.
Badgered 28th Feb 2007
She will be when her wheel mouse doesn't work.

"Q: How do I get support for my wheelmouse's mousewheel?

A: Type "knoppix wheelmouse" at the boot prompt. Unfortunately, wheelmice cannot be auto-detected, and the wheelmouse protocol is incompatible with the standard ps/2 protocol. Therefore, the "normal" ps/2 protocol (without mousewheel support) is the safe default."
0 Votes
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bullpuckies
Sxooter_z 28th Feb 2007
I've used knoppix, and even a 2 year old version knows how to work with a wheel mouse.

Your troll-fu is weak. Very very weak.
0 Votes
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Fine, read for yourself
Badgered 28th Feb 2007
http://www.knoppix.net/wiki/Hardware_FAQ

If the Knoppix Hardware FAQ says that it won't work (without typing something at a boot prompt).... and since I like to read up on an OS before I install or use it, how exactly would I know that it does work?

Look, if the documentaion for the OS can't even be correct in it's own FAQ.... why would I want to use it?
0 Votes
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odd.
Sxooter_z 28th Feb 2007
I've got both a ps2 and usb wheel mouse, and they both work just fine. Maybe the FAQ needs an update.
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I agree
Badgered 28th Feb 2007
and this is perhaps an example of the larger issue some people have with even trying Linux. I (and many others) don't know the first thing about Linux, and looking at it as something to perhaps convert to appears to me to be a daunting task.

Will my apps run?
Will my hardware work?
Where do I get it?
Where do I get support if something doesn't work?

are just a few of the questions I have. And the attitude of many Linux gurus is... "well it's easy, just do x... and you're an idiot if you don't already know that". Which kind of makes us not want to move to Linux or even try it.

It can be the absolute perfect OS, yet will die a painful death if the Linux community can't do a better job of bridging the gap between guru and ordinary user.
0 Votes
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For the average user, Linux is more than capable.
MageOfChaos 28th Feb 2007
Better questions for the person considering switching to Linux are:

-Are there any analogs to apps I already use, and can they read and write to my old formats? Also, do they behave in an intuitive manner? (in a good chunk of cases, yes)

-Will my hardware work? In most cases, yes, especially with the entry-level OS's.

-Where do I get it? A high-speed internet connection and some easy-to-follow instructions, and you can burn your own. Ubuntu will even send you a disc for free.

-Where do I get support if something doesn't work? There are plenty of distributions that offer commercial support, and all of the major ones also provide community support.

In the end, it all comes down to advertising, and on that, Microsucks will always have FOSS beat. I'm not a tech. Before switching to Linux, the last time I'd done anything in the command line was when I was in school, and that was just to play games. I think it's achingly close to being as easy as earlier Windows, and is probably easier than Vista already.
0 Votes
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Capable....
Badgered 1st Mar 2007
I'll take your word for it. That's not the problem Linux has with what I think of as an ordinary user.

Practically zero market visibility. That is the problem as I see it.

The average user may have heard the word Linux, but knows nothing about it. They see Windows OS, and Mac OS commercials everywhere. When they go to Bestbuy to pick up a new TV, they can look at Windows PCs and Macs, but where are the Linux boxes? I haven't seen any on display.
0 Votes
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and...
Badgered 28th Feb 2007
just where was the "poor little old lady" supposed to find out about Knoppix in the first place? Do they advertise it at her local BestBuy? Perhaps she would see it on her knitting website? Or... maybe.... it's sent out on CD in the mail, like an AOL coaster?

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