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With Windows 8, Microsoft can't forget past antitrust issues

By | October 19, 2011, 11:20am PDT

Summary: Why won’t Microsoft tell PC manufacturers how to implement secure boot on their computer designs? Because anything they say can be used against them in a court of law. Literally.

In the brouhaha over UEFI, Microsoft, and secure boot, a couple of key facts have been left out of the discussion.

Microsoft will require OEMs who want their systems to be certified for use with the Windows logo to meet certain requirements. For Windows 8, one of those requirements is that the secure boot feature be enabled on any systems they sell that are built with UEFI firmware. As I wrote yesterday, that is a crucial security measure for PC buyers in an increasingly hostile security landscape.

In its public statements on the issue, Microsoft has been extremely careful to describe its requirements in the most measured and narrow terms. Here’s how the company phrased their stand on the Building Windows 8 blog:

Microsoft does not mandate or control the settings on PC firmware that control or enable secured boot from any operating system other than Windows

[...]

Microsoft is working with our partners to ensure that secured boot delivers a great security experience for our customers. Microsoft supports OEMs having the flexibility to decide who manages security certificates and how to allow customers to import and manage those certificates, and manage secure boot. We believe it is important to support this flexibility to the OEMs and to allow our customers to decide how they want to manage their systems.

That statement reads to me like it was carefully vetted by multiple lawyers.

That hasn’t stopped the company’s opponents from speculating that Microsoft is working behind the scenes to undermine competition. For example, my colleague Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols notes“Microsoft’s long history of strong-arming OEMs” and “how Microsoft used to attack competitors in 90s.”

The Free Software Foundation says, “we are concerned that Microsoft and hardware manufacturers will implement these boot restrictions in a way that will prevent users from booting anything other than Windows.”

University of Cambridge Professor Ross Anderson wrote last month, “I hear that Microsoft (and others) are pushing for this to be mandatory, so that it cannot be disabled by the user…”

I am going to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that their suspicion and mistrust is genuine. But it ignores a crucial fact.

The behavior they are accusing Microsoft of plotting was expressly prohibited by the Modified Final Judgment in the case of U.S. v Microsoft. Under the heading “Prohibited Conduct,” section C includes this wording:

Microsoft shall not restrict by agreement any OEM licensee from exercising any of the following options or alternatives:

[...]

Offering users the option of launching other Operating Systems from the Basic Input/Output System or a non-Microsoft boot-loader or similar program that launches prior to the start of the Windows Operating System Product.

I do not know much plainer the language could be.

It is true that oversight of Microsoft by the U.S. Department of Justice ended in May of this year. That does not mean that the company gets free rein to return to its old behavior. In fact, you can bet that if Microsoft were to directly or indirectly engage in the kind of behavior that forced it into court more than a decade ago, they would find themselves right back in court. That language from the final judgment would be on the very first page of the complaint.

And don’t forget Europe and Korea and other jurisdictions that continue to scrutinize Microsoft for any signs of anticompetitive behavior. The EU already fined Microsoft billions of dollars for antitrust violations. Nobody likes writing a check that large.

So, yes, Microsoft has the right to set conditions on how PCs are configured when Windows is preinstalled on those systems. They will insist that secure boot be enabled. They require certain minimum hardware requirements to be met, and they mandate that the system drive be formatted using the NTFS file system.

But there is a very good reason you will not see Microsoft making any statement of any kind on how PC manufacturers should or should not implement the secure boot feature in their BIOS.

Because anything they say can be used against them in a court of law. Literally.

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Topics

Ed Bott is an award-winning technology writer with more than two decades' experience writing for mainstream media outlets and online publications.

Disclosure

Ed Bott

Ed Bott is a freelance technical journalist and book author. All work that Ed does is on a contractual basis.

Since 1994, Ed has written more than 25 books about Microsoft Windows and Office. Along with various co-authors, Ed is completely responsible for the content of the books he writes. As a key part of his contractual relationship with publishers, he gives them permission to print and distribute the content he writes and to pay him a royalty based on the actual sales of those books. Ed's books written prior to fall 2011 have been distributed by Que Publishing (a division of Pearson Education) and by Microsoft Press. As of November 2011, Ed is a partner in the independent publishing company Fair Trade Digital Exchange, which exclusively publishes his books.

On occasion, Ed accepts consulting assignments. In recent years, he has worked as an expert witness in cases where his experience and knowledge of Microsoft and Microsoft Windows have been useful. In each such case, his compensation is on an hourly basis, and he is hired as a witness, not an advocate.

Ed does not own stock or have any other financial interest in Microsoft or any other software company. He owns 500 shares of stock in EMC Corporation, which was purchased before the company's acquisition of VMware. In addition, he owns 350 shares of stock in Intel Corporation, purchased more than two years ago. All stocks are held in retirement accounts for long-term growth.

Ed does not accept gifts from companies he covers. All hardware products he writes about are purchased with his own funds or are review units covered under formal loan agreements and are returned after the review is complete.

Biography

Ed Bott

Ed Bott is an award-winning technology writer with more than two decades' experience writing for mainstream media outlets and online publications. He's served as editor of the U.S. edition of PC Computing and managing editor of PC World; both publications had monthly paid circulation in excess of 1 million during his tenure. He is the author of more than 25 books on Microsoft Windows and Office, including the recently released Windows 7 Inside Out.

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Doesn't say much
RobertMfromLI 21st Nov
Hate to say it, but that statement from Microsoft doesn't say much. I wish people would re-read it:

"Microsoft does not mandate or control the settings on PC firmware that control or enable secured boot *from any operating system other than Windows*"

(Umm, duh? How would you do it from a different OS?)

Controlling secured boot from Windows can be problematic for other operating systems, for instance in a dual boot configuration, or if a non-Windows user buys a PC with the intention of removing Windows and installing something else. And if Windows is running, and thus controlling secured boot, what happens then?

I'm not saying anything nefarious is underlying this. I'm saying their statement really doesnt allay any fears. OEMs are going to want to minimize support headaches - so even if they control the initial secured boot process (and let Windows, when booted, take over from there), it is still likely they are going to lock it down. When it comes to other operating systems, statements like their most recent ones (such as noted on Mr. Bott's other post) don't say much other than "we'll have a couple machines that will run operating systems other than Windows"

And finally, the Linux world is probably worried because of previous track records of both Microsoft and the OEMs. The OEMs, because Microsoft creates a scenario where with little to no pressure, will create an OS lockout. And Microsoft, because history has shown nearly countless cases of Microsoft intentionally inserting code into Windows (or DOS) to break competitor products. The DOJ case was chock full of what amounted to a tiny handful. In this instance, with subtle pressure (or by simply creating something to alleviate support headaches that they also know the vendors will enable in a way that locks out other operating systems), they can avoid antitrust issues.

And, quite frankly, what do they have to worry about antitrust issues for? How'd that work out for them last time? If I did a tiny fraction of what they did (that led up to the DOJ case), I'd be in jail for a very long time. They got off virtually scott free. And how long did it take? They've, in the past, "seemed" to have a mentality that even losing such things is simply (a) the cost of doing business, and (b) the cost of killing a competitor. Not exactly sure what's changed. Hopefully something. And whether things have changed or not (in their "mindset") will determine whether the complaints about secured boot are valid or not. Time will tell.
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RE: With Windows 8, Microsoft can't forget past antitrust issues
LoverockDavidson_-24231404894599612871915491754222 19th Oct
Exactly, so they aren't going to tell the OEMs what to do. However if an OEM wants any sales they will implement secure boot and put Microsoft Windows on the PC. Any other operating system just won't sell on this hardware.
@LoverockDavidson_

The problem is that UEFI is a VERY new technology and well..... it's had some hiccups with it.
@Lerianis10 It's been running on Macs and enterprise PCs for quite some time. It's just new on consumer PCs.

My HP Slate has UEFI it and it's almost a year old.
@Lerianis10 UEFI on Mac has seemingly worked well, unless you're considering video card issues. But then again, when have NVIDIA and ATI/AMD's Graphics Division put out perfect code for their cards on the first, second, or 53rd attempt?
@Lerianis10 that does not mean they will. Having said that, I agree that MS does not intend to get in more trouble with the law and never intended their secure boot requirement for the Windows logo to be a shot against alternative operating systems. But intentions and outcomes are different things. And in any case, you'll note that most of the outcry, while pointing fingers at MS (perhaps more strongly than they should), is directed at the OEMs who have the final say in the final implementations. And if this overreaction to a simple problem with a simple solution helps to guarantee that OEMs do use that simple solution, then it's worth the overreaction in the end. Then the only bad outcome would be that Windows fanatics got their drawers in a bunch in the process, but they'll get over it.
@LoverockDavidson_

The easiest way to prevent Linux running is to use new hardware. By the time a driver appears, everyone will have moved on wink
@LoverockDavidson_
Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both. (Benjamin Franklin)
@daikon
Franklin didn't say that - he printed it, but someone else wrote it - and that's not the correct wording, either:

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Notice the two words i've emphasised, which rather change the meaning from what you said.
@fairportfan
Paraphrased derivative, have a good day.
@daikon, note that fairportfan's direct quote pretty much throws out your implication. This is a fairly solid and permanent security, that only a digitally signed OS will boot with UEFI. Whitelisted operating systems is a good security solution.
@daikon
You misinterpet LIBERTY, much. You don't have the liberty to tell a manufacturer how to make a certain product. You do have the "liberty" to make suggestions, and the grandaddy of them all, the "liberty to not to buy the product. See, "liberty" is intact
@LoverockDavidson_

Whats hilarious about this entire spat is that UEFI isn't just sponsored by Microsoft on its board are:

AMD
American Megatrends Inc.
Apple Computer, Inc.
Dell
Hewlett Packard
IBM
Insyde
Intel
Lenovo
Microsoft
Phoenix Technologies

IBM have been shipping UEFI based x86 blades for a while with linux or windows installed and no one has complained.
@the.nameless.drifter There's nothing wrong with UEFI, so there's nothing "hilarious" about your list. Well, what is hilarious is that you left off Red Hat, which started the whole issue. There's nothing wrong with secure boot either. What there IS something wrong with is the possibility that it will be mandatory and non-disableable.

What's hilarious about Ed's post is exactly the issue Loverock, of all people, pointed out: the claim that Microsoft can't tell OEMs to make the secure boot optional, but of course can use its monopoly power to force them to do it in the first place. Maintaining that doing the right thing to make sure systems don't exclude the competition would be in violation of the law, while adding a feature that has the potential to exclude your competition is completely competitive and not an abuse of monopoly power, is the mind-boggling theme here.
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And Linux will already work with it.
spdragoo@... 20th Oct
@the.nameless.drifter

Both the GRUB and elilo bootloaders are already configured to work with & use UEFI.

So, as always with Linux, the distro developers can choose to incorporate the existing tools into their distros... or they can program their own.
@LoverockDavidson_

But you've cleverly left out the key point... And they'll let the customer turn it off in the BIOS settings because they don't have any compelling reason to make their laptops "Windows-only" when it costs nothing to make it work with any system.
freepuzzlegameonline.com / full-house-design.com

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I doubt you'd take one. You're a product of marketing, as most of us are, and cannot stomach using anything other than what you find precious. When you choose style of cost, you simply pay more for something that is nothing more. That's the brilliance of marketing and why some of us make a fortune off people like you. Thanks. seeds hulling machine
"Microsoft will require OEMs who want their systems to be certified for use with the Windows logo to meet certain requirements." - thats the blackmail....
@deaf_e_kate. Are you for real? Do you actually think before you type?

This isn't blackmail, it's a series of pre-requisites that the OEM is entirely free to say "no thanks" to if they wish.

They won't be able to put the Windows stickers on their PC's or laptops, but they can go ahead and sell their PC's with Windows preinstalled if they want ... or Linux for that matter.

But customer beware if you buy from an OEM without a certified for Windows sticker on the box: your shiny new PC will be susceptible to rootkits and other forms of malware that could destroy your data and your life.
@bitcrazed

But customer beware if you buy from an OEM without a certified for Windows sticker on the box...

Yeah because the Vista Capable stickers worked out so well.




happy
@deaf_e_kate How? How is requiring hardware to meet the software requirements "blackmail" in Microsoft's case but perfectly fine and legal when you Linux fanatics want hardware and software configured YOUR way?

Cue the Double Standards!
@Pete "athynz" Athens
example is i wish to buy a system with linux and later decide to install windows, I would have the right. VS
Buying a machine with windows but the Hardware won't allow me to install linux..
Not a double standard.
BTW if you buy a machine with windows but wishes not to use it and never agree to windows EULA, You can get a refund of that windows license & additional software..
I'm still amazed that the Linux community still thinks that Microsoft would do something like this just to restrict users' ability to run Linux (or other alternative OSes for that matter). Haven't they realized the cold hard truth yet? Linux has been around for years and years and most people don't want to run it. If there was a groundswell of activity around people switching from Windows to Linux, I could see how people might be worried that Microsoft would use their position to block people from switching. But come on ... Microsoft doesn't NEED to block people from using Linux. The users have chosen for themselves not to use it.
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So wrong.....
linux for me 19th Oct
@sirtwist99

Born in a cabbage patch??? RedHat is a billion dollar company that is linux, IBM, Google, all top 10 fastest supecomputers, almost all of the top 500 supercomputers, and yes even Microsoft uses linux. That doesn't even include over half the internet servers, most hubs, routers and switches too!

Any attempt to lock out other OS WILL result in anti-trust actions. Sorry Ed...wrong again.
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Contributr
Um, dude?
Ed Bott 19th Oct
@linux for me

You write: "Any attempt to lock out other OS WILL result in anti-trust actions. "

THAT IS EXACTLY MY POINT. Which would make me RIGHT, AGAIN.

We need better trolls here.
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@linux for me

"Any attempt to lock out other OS WILL result in anti-trust actions. Sorry Ed...wrong again."

Clearly you don't get it. Yes, if you were to purposefully lock out other operating systems from being run, then yes. But that's not what's going on here.

The boot loader is being secured, to protect against malware.

Think only Microsoft is using this? Well, then where are the anti-trust suites against Apple for locking Linux off the iPad and iPhone? Where's the complaints against Sony for locking Linux off the Wii? Where are the complaints against Google for locking other Linux operating systems off the Chromebook?
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Over half the internet servers?
William Farrell 19th Oct
@linux for me

" most hubs, routers and switches too!"

Do you have any hard facts backing that up? Just curious.

Yes, it's a known fact that every Linux company uses and supports Windows for the vast majority of their machines inside the company, but where does MS use Linux?
@linux for me

I was assuming we were talking about client operating systems, since we were talking about Windows 8 (a client operating system). Considering that Linux has less than 2% market share on the desktop, I think my original point is valid.
Yes, it's a known fact that every Linux company uses and supports Windows for the vast majority of their machines inside the company

Well no duh. Doh? Doh?

but where does MS use Linux?

Apparently Microsoft sometimes uses Linux servers for their own needs.

http://www.backwoodrealm.com/home/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=87:microsofts-bingcom-running-on-linux-servers&catid=74:general&Itemid=78

Anybody wanna Bing?

lol... grin
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Linux for desktops
slam5 19th Oct
@linux for me But they are used for servers mostly. Yes, some of these machines had completely switched to Linux but they have more than a few IT guys support the secretary and such. And even then, they only can run vertical applications.
@linux for me "Any attempt to lock out other OS WILL result in anti-trust actions."

Which is why Microsoft has posted in numerous blogs and websites that THEY are not mandating it. It is being left up to the OEM. If I understood right, it was even the OEM's choice whether to implement it in a way that the end user either has or does not have the choice to disable it.

It's most likely a moot point. The way I see it happening is OEM's may enable it to meet the requirements, but leave the option to disable it if needed. And then there will be the systems for enterprise/business that DO NOT allow the end user to disable it. It's flexible like that I believe.

I'm guessing even though MS is covering their butts on this and saying they are not at fault for what the OEM's do or don't do... someone will be filing against MS anyway. And I'm almost certain the EU will.
@linux for me
Talk about desktops, and you have a listener! Otherwise just "FUD."
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@Ed Bott,

Ed, you are a little mistaken here.

First, the oversight in the US ended last year. Microsoft has a free hand here. At least until the next Justice Department action.

Second, Microsoft is setting this up so they can blame the computer maker. But, the maker has to follow the specifications that Microsoft wrote. I believe that this will end up in court in about two years. I also believe that Mr. Balmer and company will lose. The loss though will take around a half a decade. The wheels of justice move slowly.

Third, contrary to what you and several of the die hard Microsoft folks here have said, the courts have found in two previous anti-trust cases that unlike GM or Ford, Microsoft does in fact have and exercise abusively a monopoly in the PC business. They need to be held to a tighter standard, as they have a record of multiple abuses in the past. Those are abuses that have been tried in Federal Courts, and which Microsoft as a company, and Bill Gates and Steve Balmer personally directed in the deliberate and intentional violation of Federal Law.

There are also abuses they were found guilty of in Korea, Japan and Europe. It isn't just a one time thing, it is a worldwide pattern, and has been consistently followed over decades.

There is a reason that the Linux Desktop users are worried.

Microsoft could easily put an end to this, if they added a layer into the Windows boot to recognize and allow other operating systems. They already do this with older versions of Windows.

It wouldn't even hurt Microsoft revenues to do it.

Many Linux users (I am one) use a dual boot configuration to use both Windows and Linux. For a 'power user' there are reasons why each OS is superior to the other in certain conditions. That is why the real usage statistics for computer operating systems add up to more than 100%.

I am also worried that if I ever buy a Windows 8 computer, that a simple memory or video upgrade will disable the machine. I remember that the same problem happened with some Windows units over ten years ago, the last time Microsoft tried this system. A simple default to the operator on start up with a changed system might also solve the whole problem.

With so many simple ways to fix the issue, why doesn't Microsoft just pick one.

If they don't, then the Linux people will have to resort to breaking the Windows security setup.

Microsoft has enough criminals doing that. They really don't need to have the majority of the computer research community doing it too.

How long would it last anyway? The last time, it was broken in less than two days.

I'd really rather not have to support people breaking big holes in Windows security, just so I can run a better environment for development, selected games, office applications and hosting.
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@sirtwist99

... is because users are still dependent on win32 programs on the PC. That won't last forever. Even MS recognizes that, which is why Metro apps are such a huge part of their future plans.
@Michael Kelly

That's part of it ... but another part is that Linux on the desktop isn't all the great an experience. Even when you put a pretty face on it (like Ubuntu), it's still inscrutable to the vast majority of users out there. People who use Linux on the desktop today seem to be incapable of realizing that most people don't understand computers. Organizations like the FSF rant and rave about "freedom" being taken away from users ... and ignore the fact that users don't want the "freedom" to use computing systems that cause them more work than they help them accomplish.

Most people simply want to use email, check Facebook, keep track of their pictures, video and music, etc. They don't want, nor have the ability, to manage their system at the granular level that an OS like Linux requires.
@Michael Kelly

No. It is because if you misconfigure xorg.conf the average user will buy a new computer.

I know Linux has a bad rap for being user unfriendly, but it is actually worse than most people admit.

There is a reason why MS doesn't ship Server-Core as an option for a client OS.
@Michael Kelly: Guess what API's get called when Metro apps allocate/free memory, open network sockets, draw to the screen, handle IO, etc?

Yep, Win32 API's. They're just wrapped by a (very attractive) new API: WinRT.
@Sir Twist 99

Linux on the desktop is perfectly adequate for most uses. For many it is even superior. This has been the case since 2000.

In the mid 1990's, Linux windowing systems were comparable to old Windows 3.1 in performance, and not up with what became Windows 98. Since 2000, Windows has never caught up with Linux in the performance of the windowing systems.

The case with other software is a similar story. Much of the real creative software currently coming to Windows is being ported from Linux, where it has been used for years.

The only area where Windows has a clear advantage is in running programs that are only available for Windows, and which are tricky to install, and so not suited for Wine.

Areas where Linux has a clear advantage include complex programs that are built out of smaller programs which are 'piped' together, quick small applications, well secured applications that are needed to run for extended periods of time (24/7/365) and for Unix applications that have never been ported over to Windows.

Linux also has an advantage where machine performance is critical, where the machine needs to be customized, or where many processors are required for massive parallel processing. By many processors, I mean more than 32, but less than say 1,000,000.

I do know people who can get some acceptable performance out of 8 way Windows systems, but by 64 processors, it's really just Linux and a few versions of Unix.

As things are progressing, what was a supercomputer 10 years ago is a desktop computer today. This trend is continuing. Within 10 years you may be running your Windows with a different instance of the operating systems for each application, all inside a containerized Linux.

It's not where you are comfortable, it where we are going, and what can be done right now, or later.

For example, IBM's Watson is a Linux computer. So is the Navy's centrally controlled battleship, and the Army's battlefield intelligence system. So is your DVR for that matter. It's all really just a question of scale and pieces.
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So right
Lerianis10 19th Oct
@sirtwist99

You hit the nails on the head. For the past 4 years, I have tried Linux every time that a new version of Ubuntu comes out, and the problems and flaws make me run SCREAMING back to Windows within a few weeks.
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Which just makes one scream and run. Not to anywhere. Just screaming and running. It's almost as bad as expecting an American to understand English.
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@Lerianis10
you should have checked it out way back on the "breezy badger" release. I think that was like version 5.10. It was far less of a pain back then. was actually reasonably enjoyable. version 8.04, sure it had a couple minor problems, but it was the last good release of Ubuntu, all the newer ones have been crap, plagued with a bunch of annoying issues...I've not checked the latest release, but I intend to. 10.04 was a nightmare. Ubuntu One, their cloud service, screwed up so many other things I needed, I simply had to abandon it. definitely will be looking at different distros if this trend keeps up. Just hate using windows for anything but gaming. *sighs*
@Lerianis10 It really all depends on what you want. If you want a professional computer system, then Ubuntu won't give you what you want.

Debian or Red Hat Enterprise Desktop would be better for that.

If you want to experiment a lot, then Fedora would be a good choice.

If you are a serious researcher, then Scientific Linux is something you should look at.

And so it goes. Linux isn't just Ubuntu, and each Linux distribution is different. Many have specific and limited audiences.

But you should be aware, Linux is not Windows. It won't act like Windows, it will never BE Windows. If you want Windows, the use Windows.

But then, Windows will never be any better than a poor imitation of Linux either.

You will need to take time to learn what Linux really is. After a time, you will find that you look at things in Windows and say "This would be better done in Linux." It is at that time that you would be able to really say which is better. But that would probably mean which is better for which task.
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Just because they should mind the law
Michael Kelly 19th Oct
that does not mean they will. Having said that, I agree that MS does not intend to get in more trouble with the law and never intended their secure boot requirement for the Windows logo to be a shot against alternative operating systems. But intentions and outcomes are different things. And in any case, you'll note that most of the outcry, while pointing fingers at MS (perhaps more strongly than they should), is directed at the OEMs who have the final say in the final implementations. And if this overreaction to a simple problem with a simple solution helps to guarantee that OEMs do use that simple solution, then it's worth the overreaction in the end. Then the only bad outcome would be that Windows fanatics got their drawers in a bunch in the process, but they'll get over it.
Nothing personal, but people like SJVN are morons ...refusing to change and grow up.
@owlnet +1
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the problem won't be Microsoft's public statements. If OEMs wind up enabling secure boot without any option to disable it, the question will inevitable arise "Why was that decision made?". Microsoft has a documented history of saying one thing publicly, then forcing OEMs hands privately using their dominant market position to illegally lock out competition. There are no indications that this will indeed happen, but old memories die hard and old behaviors are even harder to break. I appreciate the attention being paid to this issue. The more Microsoft is aware of eyes on their every move, the less likely they are to slip back into predatory monopoly mode.
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Contributr
Sigh
Ed Bott 19th Oct
@jasonp@...

And those conversations become the subject of testimony in court trials. Go read the transcripts of US v Microsoft, which includes many such conversations in addition to e0mail messages.

Sheesh.
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The question is...
John L. Ries 20th Oct
@Ed Bott
...have they actually stopped, or are they just being more careful. MS' behavior in the patent arena suggests the latter.
@jasonp@... "If OEMs wind up enabling secure boot without any option to disable it" the OEM's will potentially be hauled into court and asked why THEY chose not to allow users to manually disable SecureBoot.

Again: The ability for users to turn off SecureBoot is nothing to do with Microsoft.
@bitcrazed Agreed!!
@jasonp@
Plus let's get real, here. In the "patent arena" Microsoft is gouged 10-to-one in the "patent arena."
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Doesn't say much
RobertMfromLI 21st Nov
Hate to say it, but that statement from Microsoft doesn't say much. I wish people would re-read it:

"Microsoft does not mandate or control the settings on PC firmware that control or enable secured boot *from any operating system other than Windows*"

(Umm, duh? How would you do it from a different OS?)

Controlling secured boot from Windows can be problematic for other operating systems, for instance in a dual boot configuration, or if a non-Windows user buys a PC with the intention of removing Windows and installing something else. And if Windows is running, and thus controlling secured boot, what happens then?

I'm not saying anything nefarious is underlying this. I'm saying their statement really doesnt allay any fears. OEMs are going to want to minimize support headaches - so even if they control the initial secured boot process (and let Windows, when booted, take over from there), it is still likely they are going to lock it down. When it comes to other operating systems, statements like their most recent ones (such as noted on Mr. Bott's other post) don't say much other than "we'll have a couple machines that will run operating systems other than Windows"

And finally, the Linux world is probably worried because of previous track records of both Microsoft and the OEMs. The OEMs, because Microsoft creates a scenario where with little to no pressure, will create an OS lockout. And Microsoft, because history has shown nearly countless cases of Microsoft intentionally inserting code into Windows (or DOS) to break competitor products. The DOJ case was chock full of what amounted to a tiny handful. In this instance, with subtle pressure (or by simply creating something to alleviate support headaches that they also know the vendors will enable in a way that locks out other operating systems), they can avoid antitrust issues.

And, quite frankly, what do they have to worry about antitrust issues for? How'd that work out for them last time? If I did a tiny fraction of what they did (that led up to the DOJ case), I'd be in jail for a very long time. They got off virtually scott free. And how long did it take? They've, in the past, "seemed" to have a mentality that even losing such things is simply (a) the cost of doing business, and (b) the cost of killing a competitor. Not exactly sure what's changed. Hopefully something. And whether things have changed or not (in their "mindset") will determine whether the complaints about secured boot are valid or not. Time will tell.

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