Between the Lines

Larry Dignan, Andrew Nusca and Rachel King

Apple gives Google TV a raspberry: Apple TV to hit 1 million units

By Larry Dignan | December 21, 2010, 8:58am PST

Apple said it expects to sell more than 1 million new Apple TV units this week in a move that is timed perfectly to mock Google TV.

Steve Jobs’ “hobby” is a $99 box that brings iTunes, Netflix, YouTube, Flickr and MobileMe to an HDTV. The first Apple TV didn’t sell so well. Jobs took those lessons, simplified and made some headway.

But more importantly for Apple’s announcement is the timing. Apple is almost taunting Google with 1 million units of Apple TV even as connected Google TV sets aren’t selling all that well. Best Buy has said 3DTV and Internet connected TV hasn’t lived up to industry expectations. Meanwhile, Google seems to be slowing its Google TV reviews over mixed reviews. Google TV won’t be making a huge splash at the Consumer Electronics Show.

Google’s problem is that it saw Google TV as a blend of the Internet, TV and computer. The problem is that Google TV may have been too complicated. No one is going to use a keyboard and mouse on the couch.

Like Apple learned, scaling down a TV effort can work—even though modestly. Google will learn the same. At some point these tech giants will get TV right.

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Topics

Google Inc., Google TV, Apple Inc., Apple TV, TVs, Tv & Home Theater, Personal Technology, Home Entertainment, Larry Dignan

Larry Dignan is Editor in Chief of ZDNet and SmartPlanet as well as Editorial Director of ZDNet's sister site TechRepublic.

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RE: Apple gives Google TV a raspberry: Apple TV to hit 1 million units

birumut Updated - 17th Jun

Well done! Thank you very much for professional templates and community edition
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I have always viewed the Apple TV/iOS AirPlay combo as ..

kenosha77a 21st Dec 2010

a potential game changer. If those mystery emails responses (from Jobs) are to be believed, the AirPlay potential partially unlocked by some early jailbreaking hacks will become an official Apple AirPlay feature.

That would make bringing the Internet to the TV in a very simplified Apple type way where the iOS device would be used instead of the first gen Google TV "klunky" hardware.

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RE: Apple gives Google TV a raspberry: Apple TV to hit 1 million units

rhonin 21st Dec 2010

@kenosha7777
I looked at the functionality and what it would take to make it useful.... not there.

I'd like to know who is really buying this and why? Would not be a surprise that most sales are upgrades.....

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Well, if that were true, it would put the lie to the statement

frgough 21st Dec 2010

that the first generation AppleTV was a dud.

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RE: Apple gives Google TV a raspberry: Apple TV to hit 1 million units

kenosha77a 21st Dec 2010

@zenwalker
Those are good questions (who are the buyers and what are they using them for).

I suspect most (if not all) of the buyers are heavily invested in an Apple ecosystem .. as I am. The second source of Apple TV buyers "might" be first time iOS device owners that have bought into .. or wish to make use of .. the iOS / AirPlay features.

Again .. Apple TV's current AirPlay capabilities have only scratched the surface (as shown by varios jailbroken iOS hacks) and, as such, I understand your "non useful" comment applied to this device so far.

As for myself, I have found the device - coupled to my iOS iPad device - quite useful on occasion.

Now .. about a month back, NonZealot and I discussed the relative pro and con merits of this device in an Apple ecosystem versus a Win 7 media home system. (That is, when my good "north of the border" friend wasn't in discussions about Win 7 phones on an Apple and Google TV topic. Grin.)

That was a good discussion (which I enjoyed) and even though NZ blasted AirPlay as a non-essential bit of software tech, apparently his is waiting to use that tech on his home Win HTPC system when software support becomes available. Grin.

So far, all I have used my Apple TV for has been to watch movie trailers and help display home digital photos and videos on my home theater system .. oh .. and an occasional audio stream of some songs to my home theater surrond sound system. I have not downloaded any NetFlix movies although I just might stream "Inception" (downloaded from iTunes) in the upcoming days.

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RE: Apple gives Google TV a raspberry: Apple TV to hit 1 million units

Pete "athynz" Athens 22nd Dec 2010

@zenwalker I've considered buying the Apple TV now as it is priced far less than it's predecessor... Now it could be there are some sales that are upgrades but that $99 bucks I'd say that more of the sales are first time Apple TV buyers - ones that were thinking it's something neat but not worth the price of the original.

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RE: Apple gives Google TV a raspberry: Apple TV to hit 1 million units

rhonin 22nd Dec 2010

@kenosha7777
Thanks!
I think my biggest issue at this time is I have a multi-OS / device base...
PC and WinMedia for my streaming (Netflix, etc...)
PS3 for games/Blu-Ray/streaming
iPad for tablet (for now. Looking at 2011 devices eagerly)
Android/iOS for phone

Adding an Apple TV device to this is currently NVA for me - it would involve more fragmentation and work-arounds than I currently have. My idevices are jb - did look with interest on some of the offered tv functions....
I did come to the same basic conclusion forthe Google stuff at this time.
If / when Apple TV matures I'll take another look.

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RE: Apple gives Google TV a raspberry: Apple TV to hit 1 million units

TechTeach_z 24th Dec 2010

I got one as a gift, and I'm sorry my kids wasted the money. The download times from the apple store for a rental were counted in hours. I went back to on-demand on cable, the rental price was the same but it was actually streaming and playing right away. I now have a $99 device for showing slideshows from my computer, something I could already do with a $5 cable. Don't waste your money.

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Love the concept, and I probably want one but 1 million

stevey_d 21st Dec 2010

that's a pretty small number to be ringing the bells over.

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RE: Apple gives Google TV a raspberry: Apple TV to hit 1 million units

kenosha77a 21st Dec 2010

@stevey_d The Apple TV is a pretty small device. Grin.

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Absolutely amazing. Only with Apple is one million

frgough 21st Dec 2010

sales in a few months considered a failure.

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rumor has it that 25% of them

Ron Bergundy 21st Dec 2010

have been returned

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PLEASE!!! Rumor!?!

James Quinn 21st Dec 2010

@cyberspammer2
Please provide the sources of this rumor. Not that I think a rumor has any reliability since again it's a "RUMOR" but the source of said rumors can often be telling. Take for instance a blog run by someone like NonZ titled "I HATE everything Apple" and the article begins "I've heard from a very reliable source (My mother) that 25% of Apple TV's have been returned"

Pagan jim

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Um, no

NonZealot 21st Dec 2010

@frgough
WP7 is widely considered to be a failure by you and your zealot friends and it sold 1.5 million (which is more than "less than one million") in far less time.

So no, only with MS is 1.5 million sales in 1.5 months considered a failure. AppleTV is a failure because Apple has had to cut the price, cut the price, cut the price, and they still can't sell more of these things than the $300+ XBox!!!!

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@cyberspammer2: Yup, I read that too

NonZealot 21st Dec 2010

Turns out that when Apple cut the price, they cut the quality.

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RE: Apple gives Google TV a raspberry: Apple TV to hit 1 million units

cyberslammer2 21st Dec 2010

@NonZealot RTFA...1.5 million units SOLD TO OEM CARRIERS...NOT CUSTOMERS.

Cue the double standard.

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@cyberslammer: No, 1.5M units sold to CUSTOMERS

NonZealot 21st Dec 2010

1.5 million units SOLD TO OEM CARRIERS

Who exactly do you think is the customer for MS's WP7? Can you, as a consumer, buy the WP7 in a box on a store shelf? No? Then you clearly aren't MS's customer. MS has sold 1.5M WP7 licenses to its customers. I'm so happy to see that this has you so upset. happy

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RIGHT ON Cybey!!

Ron Bergundy 21st Dec 2010

and all the shows and stuff downloaded from itunes is 100% FOR THE APPLE TV - non of those downlaoded shows are atributed to iphones, ipods or ipads so it means it has to be a 100% success because nobody watches TV shows on those devices!!!

And of course apple has no need to say how many are in the channel because we know they sell EVERYTHING they make!!!

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RE: Apple gives Google TV a raspberry: Apple TV to hit 1 million units

cyberslammer2 21st Dec 2010

@Nonzealot no, it shows you FAIL at comprehension...if the OEM has it that doesn't mean a consumer purchased it...

Take for example the iPhone 4...there were two inventories in stock...the inventory of the customers who reserved the phone, then an additional inventory purchased for people who walked in the store to purchase it.

1.5 million units to OEMs includes both...and Microsoft is not reporting how many people actually reserved the phone and have purchased and activated it and how many phones still have not been purchased due to walk-ins.

You fail miserably at understanding how all this works, but I wouldn't expect anything less of you.....especially since you have bipolar disorder when you praise the iPhone in one instance, then deride it here.

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RE: Apple gives Google TV a raspberry: Apple TV to hit 1 million units

THavoc 21st Dec 2010

@NZ
Ok, let's correct your mistake. The WP7 sales are to carriers NOT customers. See below:

http://www.itworld.com/mobile-amp-wireless/131459/wp7-not-a-runaway-hit-not-a-disaster-either

Microsoft sold more than 1.5 million WP7 smartphones since their October debut, according to Achim Berg, vice president of business and marketing for Windows Phones. Those sales, it should be noted, are from manufacturers to carriers, not carriers to consumers.

http://www.itbusinessedge.com/cm/community/news/mt/blog/microsoft-releases-wp7-sales-figures/?cs=44810

Microsoft announced figures regarding sales of Windows Phone 7 devices. In a Q&A posted on Microsoft's website, Achim Berg, Microsoft's vice president, mobile communications business and marketing group, said manufacturers sold 1.5 million phones to mobile operators and retailers in the first six weeks. However, this number does not represent how many of those devices were sold to consumers.

Do I need to keep going w/ the examples? A simple Google search showed up these two articles.

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@NZ

frgough 21st Dec 2010

feel free to show where I said Winmobile 7 was a failure.

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Got any proof of that

Pete "athynz" Athens Updated - 22nd Dec 2010

@cyberspammer2 or was this just a trolling post to rile up the Apple faithful?

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Can you tell me where

Pete "athynz" Athens 22nd Dec 2010

@cyberslammer You fail miserably at understanding how all this works, but I wouldn't expect anything less of you.....especially since you have bipolar disorder when you praise the iPhone in one instance, then deride it here.

NonZealot has said anything bad about the iPhone 4 on this thread? because so far I'm not seeing anywhere where he even mentioned the iPhone - just WP7. So it looks like you fail miserably at reading comprehension.

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that's the problem with cyberknobslobber...er, um cybersLammer2

SonofaSailor 22nd Dec 2010

@athynz

he makes up in his own mind what you said, he pulls his "facts" out of thin air, and deludes himself into thinking he understand sales models for global corporations.

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@NonZ...

SonofaSailor 22nd Dec 2010

Don't you just love idiot fanboi logic?

It takes a 'special' mind to try to differentiate between MS' sales and Apple's sales. Example: when Apple says '1 million sold'...they are including Apple store sales, apple online sales, and sales to retailers, or carriers (best buy, AT&T). In that case, sales to carriers means something.

But when we're talking MS, because they are the anti-Christ, sales to carriers means nothing, only sales to consumers means anything. Even though, as far as MS is concerend, when a phone is sold to a carrier, that constitutes a unit sold, according to GAAP accounting methods.

Also, the "Sold to consumers" part is important when we're talking phones, because that would translate over to marketshare...which is important if we are talking about the iPhone. But if we are talking about Macs? nope, marketshare means nothing, and it never will mean nothing.

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RE: Apple gives Google TV a raspberry: Apple TV to hit 1 million units

dave95. 22nd Dec 2010

@NZ

"Who exactly do you think is the customer for MS's WP7? Can you, as a consumer, buy the WP7 in a box on a store shelf? No? Then you clearly aren't MS's customer. MS has sold 1.5M WP7 licenses to its customers. "

Wow. I know you're out to defend anything MS (the irony), but I'm not so sure even MS would want you repeating the above statement. The goal for MS is not to stuff carriers with WP7 phones that may or may not be sold (their customers as you say). It is to bring actual new users/customers to the platform. Device sold, activations.

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Depends.....

James Quinn 21st Dec 2010

@stevey_d
On what your competition is doing. Also depends on profit margins and other sources of income. For instance at 99.00 your not going to make a huge profit if the profit margin is 5% or worse still less. if you are making 20% more or that would be better (Note I have no idea what Apple's profit margin on this product is). Then there is this. What other sources of revenue does this product represent? Like movie rentals and sales on iTunes? Song sales? TV shows being sold and or rented? So what does each sale mean to Apple in terms of revenue made on each and every sale and potential revenue by the very same sale? It's also nice to beat out your competitor if you can:P

Pagan jim

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RE: Apple gives Google TV a raspberry: Apple TV to hit 1 million units

murving 21st Dec 2010

@stevey_d A million units in a week isn't bad. Don't forget they have already sold a million units before this so 2 million units for a new product in a few months isn't that bad.

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You read that wrong

NonZealot Updated - 21st Dec 2010

@murving
A million units in a week isn't bad.

That would be right if Apple TV is selling a million units a week. It isn't. Apple expects to sell their one millionth Apple TV this week. Considering when it was released, those are actually extremely poor sales figures. To put it into context, the $150 Kinect is selling far better. Even the XBox, Apple TV's true competitor, is selling far better than Apple TV is. happy

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So Xbox is apples "true" competitor?

i8thecat Updated - 22nd Dec 2010

@NonZealot wrote: " Even the XBox, Apple TV's true competitor, is selling far better than Apple TV is."

Wow... So Apple is competing with Microsoft on a gaming console and Apple didn't even need to bother with the games nor the controler and still sold 1.5 mil...

That Xbox must suck balls if Apple can compete with it with a simple Apple TV and take away market share... LOL

Cue the double stupid... (that would be you NZ).

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The real problem, for Apple AND Google, is content.

matthew_maurice 21st Dec 2010

The content providers just don't seem eager to play ball. iTunes has a limited selection of current TV and movies, and Google has basically been blocked from scraping content from websites. Apple's approach isn't going to work until the studios realize they need Apple as much as the music labels do. Google's approach isn't going to work at all, Google represents a huge threat to content provider's livliehood, advertising sales. Now if Google decides to cut them in for a piece of the action, all bets are off, but for the time being, GoogleTV is just a complicated way to watch YouTube or Tweet while watching a cable movie.

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RE: Apple gives Google TV a raspberry: Apple TV to hit 1 million units

jv9274@... 21st Dec 2010

Apple got it right, though I like my X360 setup. You can have it all with X360, WMC and playon.tv. Now if only MS and/or playon develop a better interface w/ search.

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Huh, I guess MS gives Apple a raspberry every week

NonZealot 21st Dec 2010

http://www.dvhardware.net/article46981.html

In November 2009, Windows 7 managed to surpass Apple's Snow Leopard market share in just two weeks.

And keep in mind that Windows 7 costs more than 10 times what Snow Leopard costs!!! After all, Windows 7 Ultimate costs $400. And Snow Leopard only costs $30. Right? These are the prices that you Apple zealots always trot out. So please don't mention that Windows 7 actually costs less than $400 because then you would be exposing yourselves for the liars that you are.

PS http://www.engadget.com/2010/12/21/airplay-hacked-onto-xbmc-ubuntu-pc-windows-next-video/
So for those of you that feel AirPlay is a big deal, guess what, you don't need to buy Apple's "hobby" Apple TV device. Soon my Windows 7 HTPC running XBMC will support AirPlay too. And even better, I won't have paid Apple $99 for it. happy

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Take it easy tiger!

CowLauncher 21st Dec 2010

You're going to hyperventilate dude! LOL

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but its not like any of those Winblows 7 sales

Ron Bergundy 21st Dec 2010

are running on a apple computer so the numbers don't meen a thing.

winblows users are locked into M$ and don't have a choice

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RE: Apple gives Google TV a raspberry: Apple TV to hit 1 million units

Pete "athynz" Athens 22nd Dec 2010

@cyberspammer2 So those people who say they are running Windows 7 on a mac are lying? Because one could get a retail version of Windows 7 and install it on a Mac with no issues. But troll away dude, it's what you are good at.

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RE: Apple gives Google TV a raspberry: Apple TV to hit 1 million units

maskman01 22nd Dec 2010

@NonZealot

This is exciting news. This means that Apple will rent/download more media to more devices. They'll then increase iTunes video downloads and my Apple stock will go up.

That should lead to finally being able to negotiate those better content deals which will mean my Apple stock will go up. And once the content is finally there the AppleTV will move to a focus from a hobby. If it sells one million as a hobby I can only guess what it will do as a focus. Oh yeah, my Apple stock will go up.

Apple wins again.

Are you excited about your Apple Stock?

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RE: Apple gives Google TV a raspberry: Apple TV to hit 1 million units

non-biased 4th Jan 2011

@NonZealot Cherry Pick your information much? Not sure what pricing was at the time but your $400 isn't really an accurate statement for several reasons. First you go with the top version versus the base Home version which costs half what you said. Again, might have been priced higher just over a year ago but right now you can get Ultimate for $319 from the first national retailer I checked, not even shopping around. Second, for less than $400 you have a vast number of choices of complete systems running Windows 7, not just getting the OS.

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You read that wrong

murving 21st Dec 2010

Sorry my mistake. I wouldn't compare the Apple TV to a Kinnect or an Xbox 360. I have a Sony PS3 and I don't view them as competition. The only competition for Apple TV today is the Roku player, Boxee Box and Google TV today.

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Consoles are huge competition against Apple TV

NonZealot 21st Dec 2010

@murving
www.zdnet.com/blog/gadgetreviews/study-gaming-consoles-are-taking-over-living-room-entertainment-hubs/20871

In fact, XBox and PS3 are ANNIHILATING Apple TV!!! People are buying "game" consoles in order to play games and watch TV, movies, and other videos and pictures. Then when Apple tries to sell them an Apple TV, they don't buy because Apple TV can't do anything that they want that they can't accomplish easily with the "game" console they already have.

Try telling an Apple zealot that the iPad doesn't compete with the Kindle and you will get hordes of them coming in and calling you an idiot.

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Actually the only thing I do on my XBox 360 is games

James Quinn 21st Dec 2010

@NonZealot
Don't find it's "other" abilities all that interesting.....

Pagan jim

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RE: Apple gives Google TV a raspberry: Apple TV to hit 1 million units

cyberslammer2 21st Dec 2010

@James Quinn

Agreed, I don't find the other features appealing at all either James, I use the 360 for games, I have a DVD player for movies, and I watch TV shows online either on my PC or on the iPad.

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RE: Apple gives Google TV a raspberry: Apple TV to hit 1 million units

OffsideInVancouver 21st Dec 2010

I use the other functions on my 360, I have a lot of movies and TV shows on my desktop machine and I'd much rather watch them sprawled on my couch on a big TV screen than on my laptop screen or desktop monitor.

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Which is how many feel about AppleTV/GoogleTV/cct

John Zern 21st Dec 2010

@James Quinn
Nothing against the Apple TV, but a million sold is minor number compared to the number of cable and satalite subscribers alone (over 241 million), and that's not counting people with standard, over the air viewing habits

At least with the Xbox, if you're not that into downloading movies and stuff, games work really great on it, and the other stuff really didn't cost extra in terms of purchasing devices and what not, so interesting to experiment with as there's no buyers remorse if you find downloading movies isn't your thing.

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RE: Apple gives Google TV a raspberry: Apple TV to hit 1 million units

Badgered 22nd Dec 2010

@Pagan Jim Don't find it's "other" abilities all that interesting.....

meh, I don't use one at all.. though my two teenagers use them all the time, for just about everything it's capable of. Younger generation, go figure... Though I would suspect those would be the customers these companies are targeting, not us old fogies, 'eh? wink

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RE: Apple gives Google TV a raspberry: Apple TV to hit 1 million units

lelandhendrix@... 22nd Dec 2010

@NonZealot Bait bait bait bait bait.

STOP FEEDING TROLLS PEOPLE!

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RE: Apple gives Google TV a raspberry: Apple TV to hit 1 million units

non-biased 4th Jan 2011

@NonZealot You sir are a such a joke but troll well. Now lets try another comparison that is about as relevant as your XBox/PS3 to AppleTV comparison. The iPhone sales absolutely eclipse MS Zune sales. Both play music so that's a relevant comparison right? Sure the iPhone does more but the fact that they both can do one thing makes it appropriate to compare them right? No, I didn't think so. I wouldn't put any relevance on a comparison just as your's has no real relevance what so ever.

I am by no means an Apple zealot but in my view the only times an iPad competes with a Kindle is if the buyer is only going to use it to read books, nothing else what so ever. In that case the Kindles is the obvious choice. Now to make your earlier comparison work lets see figures of people buying the XBox/PS3 versus the AppleTV that are ONLY going to use it to download TV shows and Movies? If you choose the XBox or PS3 to only be used for this over an AppleTV you are an idiot just as somebody that would buy an iPad over a Kindle to only read books would be an idiot.

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RE: Apple gives Google TV a raspberry: Apple TV to hit 1 million units

rhonin 21st Dec 2010

@murving
chuckle - and Roku's sales figured have soared since the iTV announcement......

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RE: Apple gives Google TV a raspberry: Apple TV to hit 1 million units

partman1969@... 22nd Dec 2010

@murving
Imagine that you got it right. I wonder if NZ will ever learn. I have to admit though I think removing or never having storage such as flash or a hard drive to give pvr capability is a downer. I use Windows Media Center and an xbox 360 and WD Live for tv viewing, and now even the new WD Live includes hard drive storage. Had the older version of Apple Tv not had heat issues I think it was a better Apple product, but then again I'm not trying to sell Apple movies or Apple tv episodes either.