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FBI joins Pennsylvania webcam school spying investigation

By | February 19, 2010, 5:01pm PST

Summary: The FBI joins the investigation of a school district accused of remotely activating the webcams on school-issued laptops to spy on students in their homes.

The Pennsylvania school district accused of spying on students by remotely activating Webcams on district-issued laptop computers is now being investigated by the FBI, according to an Associated Press report. (Techmeme)

Federal investigators want to know, specifically, if officials with the school district broke any federal wiretapping or computer-intrusion laws, an unnamed source told the AP.

District officials revealed more details about the controversial actions that led to a lawsuit filed by a student and his parents. The officials acknowledged that they remotely activated laptop webcams 42 times in the past 42 months - but only to locate missing computers and never to spy on students.

The district also acknowledged that documents that are signed when students receive the laptops did not contain a warning that webcams might be activated without their permission.

The district also said that the only people authorized to activate the laptop webcams were the two employees in the technology department. The district has halted the use of the remote-activation technology.

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RE: FBI joins Pennsylvania webcam school spying investigation
desamuelson 6th May 2010
@darije.djokic@... so children going to school are to be equated to convicted criminals? (Strange world you live in). While it is challenged often, so far in the US it does take a judges order to enable the spying on people (everyone in the US, not just citizens). A law enforcement agency takes the information they have, and a judge makes a determination if there is sufficent evidence to issue a warrent to gather the information requested.
A laptop which is issued to a student which may be stolen would still have to be reported as stolen and the police request a judge to issue a warrent.... remembering that laws concerning child protection are rather strict.
View in thread
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might be no case after all
Linux Geek 19th Feb 2010
but only to locate missing computers and never to spy on students.

If they were looking for lost/stolen laptops I don't see the issue.
Criminals don't enjoy privacy laws.
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If something is stolen, why randomly look?
unredeemed 19th Feb 2010
Usually the S/N would be associated to a user, and
more so the MAC address. That is probably what is
being used to even identify and activate the
machines.

This was a breach of privacy or plain
incompetence. Someone will be getting fired I
hope.
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Well
JasonJD48 20th Feb 2010
"Criminals don't enjoy privacy laws"

I think the problem with your argument is that pesky 'innocent until proven guilty thing' not to mention that no one said the kid in question stole it, but rather that he was issued it, then there's the issue that school officials do not constitute law enforcement personnel.
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Yeah, right
M.R. Kennedy 20th Feb 2010
"but only to locate missing computers and never to spy on students.

If they were looking for lost/stolen laptops I don't see the issue.
Criminals don't enjoy privacy laws."

Uh huh. Latest I heard was that the moron that did the snooping turned the kid in because the candy the kid had "looked like drugs". Seems that it was the kid that the 'puter was issued to, as well. Hmmm. Don't think that the 'puter was "stolen"...

My take on the whole thing:

The school district didn't inform the students OR their parents that the district had the ability to use the webcam (or other potential spyware that *may* have been installed on the 'puters) to monitor the use of said 'puters. That's a big No-No. The district is liable. They *may* have to cough up all of the records of the supposedly "42" computers they remotely activated, along with any other supporting documents related to *any* monitoring that's been done since the program was initiated.

That school district, as well as the State School Board may be in a heap o' trouble over this.

Oh, I hope so!
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You missed something LinuxGeek
midenginedrift 22nd Feb 2010
The reason the student (and parents) are suing the school is because the student was suspended for "inappropriate behavior at home."

This led to the revelation that the school had remotely activated the webcam to spy on said student. Which led to the case.

Personally, I don't think the school has the right to suspend the student for what they do at home. That's the issue here.
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What linuxgeek is missing
sackbut 22nd Feb 2010
is a brain.
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Schools have every right to suspend students
Cyberjester 24th Feb 2010
for activities outside the school.

If a student peddles drugs outside school grounds, the school finds out, they are definitely allowed to suspend/expel them. That's probably a bad example, but there's quite a few things which schools have on their 'absolutely not' list. And you don't have to be at school for it to apply either.
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So what ?
Oreamnos_americanus 25th Feb 2010
Where in your logic are schools empowered to conduct warrantless searches of students bedrooms? Peep on them where any normal person has an 'expectation of privacy'.
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Everyone enjoys privacy laws
richardw66 Updated - 22nd Feb 2010
Criminals don't enjoy privacy laws.

All people are subject to the same laws.

Have you not ever broken any law? ever?

If you break a law you do not suddenly lose the protection of the law.

Not to mention innocent until proven guilty!

The webcams on the stolen laptops can be used to recover them
though - this is different. The camera being activated does not belong
to the thief and it is their problem if they put the camera somewhere it
shouldn't be and it happens to be activated.

If they were looking for lost/stolen laptops and they activated a
lost/stolen camera then probably this is OK.

If they activated any other camera they are most likely in trouble.
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Yea
Cyberjester 24th Feb 2010
That innocent until proven guilty thing.. That has been causing more problems than it solves going by cases in the past few years. That and your "unalienable rights".. I've got a hunch that you're going to be losing a lot of those rights in the next few years, too many people getting away with murder. Quite literally.
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Wiretapping Laws
ceh4702 23rd Feb 2010
If they activated one computer that was not stolen, then they should be found guilty of wiretapping. In some states this requires mandatory jail time.

I question the intelligence of giving underage teenagers and grade school kids a webcam. On the surface, a webcam seems harmless. However, pedafiles love using webcams to get picures of underage children. Webcams are extremely dangerous in the wrong hands. If the parents knew the full potential of a webcam to pedafiles and child predators, they might be a little more worried.
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Citizens have a right to privacy.
rj_wilson@... 23rd Feb 2010
Citizens have a right to privacy.
Due process & all that.

Something else to think about - the school was putting remote control cameras in the bedrooms of minors. A pedofile & pervert dream.
I wonder if the network geeks just looked away as the under age girls & boys changed into PJs,
as they were getting ready for bed - thinking they were alone.
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RE: FBI joins Pennsylvania webcam school spying investigation
wizard57m@... 19th Feb 2010
Hmmm...maybe the FBI, under the guise of "investigation", is actually recruiting whomever used the webcams for their use!
Hehe...
{;-)
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RE: FBI joins Pennsylvania webcam school spying investigation
doug.hanchard@... 19th Feb 2010
Aaron Sorkin titled one of his West Wing episodes:
"Somebody's Going to Emergency, Somebody's Going to Jail"

One part of the episode is about a friend of Donna Moss
who asks Sam to consider a pardon request for an alleged
Cold War spy.

D?j? vu or what!!!
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RE: FBI joins Pennsylvania webcam school spying investigation
classicmacos@... 19th Feb 2010
Most news outlets overlook one big important clue: These schools are all IB schools, i.e., RUN BY THE UN, with UNESCO AGENDA 21 as the basis.

They are political. So it is no wonder they would spy on kids!

This www.ibo.org program should be run out of the USA on a rail!
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paranoid..
Bradish@... 19th Feb 2010
they are going to get you too ....
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New Hat Time!
M.R. Kennedy 20th Feb 2010
Isn't the tinfoil on your beanie getting a bit ragged?
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Thought you were right, then I researched IB schools WOW scary stuff
invmgr@... 22nd Feb 2010
New world order indoctrination of our children. Sponsored by elitist hard core lefties like George Soros and his ilk. This is a public funds siphon that needs to be turned off.
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Way out of line here
Louis Ross Focke 19th Feb 2010
The School district is way out of line here. Lots of people leave their computers on all the time, even laptops. If the district activated the web cam say when a student was changing their clothes or getting ready for bed, that is definitely a violation of privacy at least!! Please....
lrf
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Hear Hear!
JasonJD48 20th Feb 2010
Its bad enough that for some reason, school districts want to hold students responsible for what they do at home, on the internet, etc. that should be parents domain, now they are watching them, its absurd.
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Things don't add up
Importfan1 20th Feb 2010
"The officials acknowledged that they remotely activated laptop webcams 42 times in the past 42 months - but only to locate missing computers and never to spy on students."

If they only used the webcams to locate missing laptops, why did a student get in trouble for "inappropriate" activity at home?
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Hmmm
JasonJD48 20th Feb 2010
Not to mention, one of these go missing per month?
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Does not compute!
Isocrates Updated - 20th Feb 2010
"The officials acknowledged that they remotely activated laptop webcams 42 times in the past 42 months - but only to locate missing computers and never to spy on students."

All of these computers were assigned to students. If the student assigned the laptop and who was accused with a compromising photo did not report the laptop as stolen, then why was the Webcam activated?
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Who wouold believe the Lower Merion, PA School District?
Isocrates Updated - 21st Feb 2010
"The district has halted the use of the remote-activation technology."

Really? This is the district that had a school official show a student a photo of himself taken through his school issued laptop's Webcam, who has now denied that event took place. What kind of leadership and authority lies to those it serves and expects to be believed?

Oh...

Our state and federal governments who steal from us and then disrespect our privacy???

Our politicians who make false and unfulfilled promises to get elected and who then make laws that violate our rights of privacy?

Our corporations' executives who make and squander excessive profits, take and lavish upon themselves public handouts, and who also disrespect our privacy?

Our Hollywood entertainers who tell us that homosexuality, adultery, all out-of-wedlock sex, violence, skinny bodies, and etcetera are all normal?

Our teachers who teach us the Theory of Evolution as fact, treat students as prisoners and subjects of their concentration camps, and also disrespect students' and families' privacy?

Our medical practitioners who kill patients with impunity, turn children over to state agencies, turn parents over to law enforcement, and also disrespect our privacy by making our medical records public knowledge?

Our parents who tell their children there is a Santa Claus and an Easter Bunny?

These are but a few leaders and authorities who lie to us and expect us to continue believing them...

I think we have a national culture of lying and disrespecting others!
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You are clearly part of that disrespecting culture
richardw66 22nd Feb 2010
@ Isocrates

It is nice to see that you believe that unlike others, you have the right
to say what is normal.

Our teachers who teach us the Theory of Evolution as fact, treat
students as prisoners and subjects of their concentration camps, and
also disrespect students' and families' privacy?

This is an interesting mix of ideas, along with a big disrespect to
concentration camp victims.

Sorry, but the church teaches many things as fact - and likes to call
them such, then talks about faith - totally contradictory.

The Theory of Evolution is a theory, and it is supported very well by
evidence.

The alternate theories are not supported by evidence.

Nice of you to impose religious views on this forum and talk about lies
by others. Really nice going!!!

Also I value your disrespect - I really do. I feel so much better for
it,and I am sure that I will be glad of whatever discrimination comes
my way supported by your propaganda.
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/sigh
Cyberjester 24th Feb 2010
You may have missed it, but Zdnet has several related articles at the moment.

One has to do with privacy and "unalienable rights". Do you believe in those? "Endowed by their Creator". Oh, wait a sec.. Evolution is right, there's no such thing as a Creator. Thus, you dont' have unalienable rights.

When you take out religion and morality, you are left with nothing but what is written down in your laws. And what's there is a lot less when you're finished culling.

Be carful, you are rapidly losing everything you hold dear.
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RE: FBI joins Pennsylvania webcam school spying investigation
ObserverNY 21st Feb 2010
Glad to see someone else is noticing the IB connection.

(3rd story down)

http://truthaboutib.com/breakingnewsopinions.html
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Simple solution
garydavis 22nd Feb 2010
One little bit of duct tape over the camera lens solves the whole issue of whether or not someone is spying on you.

Building in a "phone home" with a traceroute would be a far more effective way of finding a stolen laptop, assuming that the thief didn't have the sense to wipe the machine before allowing it to connect to the internet.

Of course, if it was wiped, then trying to remotely activate the web cam wouldn't help much, would it now?
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Beat to the punch
Azathoth 22nd Feb 2010
I was going to suggest electrical tape or painter's tape.

The phone home idea sounds good as it's been around for a while and should be simple to implement. I just wouldn't advertise that it was set up on the laptops.
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RE: FBI joins Pennsylvania webcam school spying investigation
michael.tindall@... Updated - 22nd Feb 2010
Actually, ALL citizens are covered by privacy laws...and ironically, OUTLAWS enjoy them the most, while the law-and-order establishment enjoys them the least.

Why?

These laws were created to protect ALL US citizens from wrongful intrusion. Law enforcement would LOVE to no longer be bound by the Fourth Amendment...imagine the efficiency! Just search EVERYONE'S homes, and arrest/fine everyone breaking any law, for any reason. Got drugs? Unregistered firearms? Too many cats? Books from banned authors? In the world of 1984, to be watched in our own homes is simply accepted as a fact of life. Privacy laws (starting with the Fourth Amendment) where passed to PREVENT our nation from turning into the police state that it is headed towards.

I hope the litigants in the lawsuit go for SCORCHED EARTH on this one. Firings and punitive fines, for EVERY activation not related to theft, for every picture taken, and if any of them are of underage bodies, child porn convictions all around, starting from the people who ran the webcam activation, all the way up the chain of command through EVERYONE that had knowledge of it.

The sad part is that the TAXPAYERS will foot the bill...but this CAN NOT be allowed to stand unchallenged.


addendum: While we're at it, check for any MULTIPLE activations of the same computer...if any are found, how much do people want to bet that said machine was issued to an attractive female student?
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RE: FBI joins Pennsylvania webcam school spying investigation
smitty135 22nd Feb 2010
Just my 2cents worth, why are taxpayers money being used to supply school children with laptop computers? Just like in a business if you supply employees with a computer it is still the companys computer so the laptop belongs to the school and not the student. There is no expectation of privacy in this situation.
0 Votes
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2 cents doesn't buy a lolly these days
richardw66 22nd Feb 2010
why are taxpayers money being used to supply school children with
laptop computers?

Maybe for the same reason taxpayers money was used to build the
school buildings and employ the teachers?

Just like in a business if you supply employees with a computer it is
still the companys computer so the laptop belongs to the school and
not the student. There is no expectation of privacy in this situation.

These are school children, they have been issued laptops to do school
work on, and will most likely use them in their bedrooms.

The school has no right to look into the bedrooms of the students,
and if they did look they would be expected to find the children doing
what children do in bedrooms, which is likely to make the viewing of
such images illegal.

In a situation where a company supplies a laptop, they may have the
right to limit what is done with the laptop, they would not have the
right to observe what is done in front of the laptop, they do not own
the space in front of the computer.

Just my 2cents worth To be able to look into the bedrooms of
school students you may need more than 2 cents to buy a lolly these
days.
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RE: FBI joins Pennsylvania webcam school spying investigation
pookiecrickett2@... 22nd Feb 2010
Who authorized the installation of the remote web cam software. Was it the school board or just the technology department. So many loose ends about this whole ordeal. I say do a full background investigation
on the technology department....probably pervs.
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Really?
SMparky 22nd Feb 2010
And the only reason they drilled holes in the girls locker room wall was to make sure boys weren't sneaking in. Ridiculous.

Their own argument doesn't hold up since they had no reason to activate this kids laptop since it wasn't stolen.

And I don't think they'd have much legal grounds anyway. Forcing someone to sign a form to obtain a required computer doesn't mean you can sign away their legal rights.
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RE: FBI joins Pennsylvania webcam school spying investigation
desamuelson 6th May 2010
@SparkyMaddy You can add to that that a minor CANNOT enter into a contract, let alone sign away their rights
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RE: FBI joins Pennsylvania webcam school spying investigation
rgray5711 22nd Feb 2010
the blacks that run the education system think they have the right to do just as they wish and being a racist is none of our business. I thought we were working to be equal but it seems to be one sided against the white race.
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This blog has attracted the bigots - wonder why?
richardw66 22nd Feb 2010
We now have anti-negro, homphobic, anti evolution and xenophobic
lunatics on here - what's missing?

Are there any more nutters out there who have missed this place to
spread hatred?

Oh, wait, maybe I shouldn't tempt fate - of course there are.
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I wonder...
Middle_Age_Man Updated - 22nd Feb 2010
Why isn't Kobe Bryant outraged about his alma mater spying on the kids? Maybe he is in on it. If the laptop wasn't reported stolen, there is no reason to turn on the laptop webcam.
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Is your employer entitled to spy on you?
Oreamnos_americanus 22nd Feb 2010
If you have a laptop issued by your company are they entitled to spy on you with it, when you are in your home after work hours, without notice?

What country do you live in where this is no expectation of privacy in your own bedroom

Do you really want to have O'Brien watching you through your telescreen?


That's from "1984" in case you don't 'get it'.
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Private VS Public Networks
ceh4702 23rd Feb 2010
It is one thing for an employer to monitor their private networks. However, when they are spying over the Internet then they are invading the public systems which are governed by federal laws and FCC rules.

If you activate a computer that you know is not stolen, then that is wiretapping.

Webcams are the favorite tool of child predators.
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What an employer can do,
dave@... 24th Feb 2010
on company supplied PCs or laptops, is install keyloggers and screen capture software. This software, if activated, only captures what you are doing on that "company supplied" equipment. You stop typing/working then the monitoring STOPS. Not to mention that people can walk naked past the PC and that event is not seen or captured.

No wiretap laws are broken here and the employee usually signs an agreement fully understanding that the equipment can be monitored.

However activating a webcam means that you are now monitoring events without a warrant and that now gets you into wietap laws. If you see or capture an underage child in underwear, or less, you now can have pornography charges added if the DA is looking to pad his accomplishments.

Police cannot legally activate a cam, webcam or mic without a warrant. If they do a judge will throw that evidence out in a blink of an eye. So why does a school think they can even for the poor excuse of recovering a lost/stolen laptop? Obviously they didn't consult their lawyer(s) or maybe my lawyer is smarter than theirs.
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No they can't, actually
Cyberjester 24th Feb 2010
I'm in Aus, but Aus follows USA law very closely, so I'm assuming there's some relation to cases here.

A while back there was an employer caught having video cameras installed in restrooms, of course there were complaints and last I checked the employer was out of business and possibly in jail. I lost interest long before the end so details are iffy.

But employers rights can and are fought. MSFT's XBL EULA stated that the user was not allowed to talk/state/etc several conversation items, one being sexual preference. A person wouldn't stop trolling about how they were gay, people complained, MSFT disabled their account. The user sued for discrimination and won, that's a USA court case I believe.

What an employer can do according to the law of the nation, and what an employer can do in the eyes of the public are two very different things. Keyloggers, screen capture software, all it takes is one sensitive conversation and that company is finished. It's a very fine line between legal and violating several privacy laws, illegal wiretapping being one of them.
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RE: FBI joins Pennsylvania webcam school spying investigation
I Hate Malware 22nd Feb 2010
The article says the only two people "authorised" to use the software were in the IT department. That doesnt mean some smart arse kid didnt find a way to hack in and play around.
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RE: FBI joins Pennsylvania webcam school spying investigation
StickmanMK 22nd Feb 2010
My 16yo daughter has a laptop (Non School Issued) without a web cam. It is usually opened up and turned on most of the time on her desk in her room. If I was a parent in this Pennsylvania school district I would be very concerned if their children had their laptop in their room while they were changing or after showering. Would the school district still be trying to justify the peep show?
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RE: FBI joins Pennsylvania webcam school spying investigation
jimmurray1946 22nd Feb 2010
Seems to me that If this district wanted to locate missing laptops then the GPS capability would prove more worthwhile than a remote picture. In order for them to identify any photo it would have to be passed around to others to try for an id. Even if they used facial recognition software then what happens if it was already out of the area? I guess the IT Dept has some voyeurs or even pedophiles working for the District.Also we probably should consider that most Desktop computers that use windows (possibly macs too but I am not familiar with that breed)have the capability to remotely wake from off by a usb activation or a web utility. Look in Control Panel-Administrative Tools-services-remote...oooops, maybe we should all be concerned about the web cams.
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Somewhat misleading
darije.djokic@... 23rd Feb 2010
The statement should be: some degree of privacy, varying on the
occasion. The privacy of criminals living in correction facilities is
extremely limited - and rightly so. Not only that; the police has the
authority to invade to a degree anybody?s privacy - that what an
investigation essentially is - and rightly so, for there would be no
way to catch a criminal ever, unless in flagrante delicto. Invading
The privacy in such an instance is considered socially and legally
acceptable even for suspects that are later proven completely
extraneous to the fact for were they known in advance to be
extraneous they would not be part of the investigation in the first
place.
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RE: FBI joins Pennsylvania webcam school spying investigation
desamuelson 6th May 2010
@darije.djokic@... so children going to school are to be equated to convicted criminals? (Strange world you live in). While it is challenged often, so far in the US it does take a judges order to enable the spying on people (everyone in the US, not just citizens). A law enforcement agency takes the information they have, and a judge makes a determination if there is sufficent evidence to issue a warrent to gather the information requested.
A laptop which is issued to a student which may be stolen would still have to be reported as stolen and the police request a judge to issue a warrent.... remembering that laws concerning child protection are rather strict.
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RE: FBI joins Pennsylvania webcam school spying investigation
wds21921@... 23rd Feb 2010
How is it that the government is going to investigate when they're doing the same thing to citizens under the guise of national security? Illegal wiretapping computer activity...all the same things this school is accused of doing?

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