Between the Lines

Larry Dignan, Andrew Nusca and Rachel King

Gauging the ThinkPad: Before (IBM) and after (Lenovo)

By | September 29, 2008, 2:16am PDT

Has Lenovo lost whatever mojo the ThinkPad had? That simple question raised a lot of discussion at TechRepublic and it’s worth pondering. The problem: Gauging Lenovo’s performance depends on a lot of anecdotes with few concrete  answers.

As background, John Sheesley asked a simple question: Has Lenovo ruined the ThinkPad? John outlined the history–IBM unloaded its PC unit to Lenovo in 2005–and noted that the latest ThinkPads just don’t seem to have the fit and finish as before. The questions about Lenovo have popped up before, but are quite current today since I smoked (literally) three T42s–older ThinkPads–on Thursday. The guts of the laptop started smoking so I have a loaner that will be upgraded to another Lenovo in the next few weeks.

Review: Lenovo ThinkPad X301

The talkbacks were lively and John called shenanigans after a bunch of responses spoke glowingly about Lenovo. He thought he was surrounded by a bunch of Lenovo plants.

Lenovo spokesman Ray Gorman replied:

I believe ThinkPads are just as good as ever and voted accordingly. Although I suspect there are other Lenovo employees who have voted in this forum, I would wager that you have also attracted voters who are employees of our competitors. While in either case, it’s fairly predictable how each would vote, the interesting fact is that there are really only two notebook PC brands that have their own fan forums and passionate enthusiasts. I’m pretty confident declaring that ThinkPad is one of those two.

In many respects, Lenovo isn’t different from any other PC maker–perception is reality. For instance, a lot of folks have had trouble with Dell’s customer service in the last five years. I haven’t had any problems. Obviously, if I get hit with a survey Dell will fare better than someone who was burned.

But the question about ThinkPad quality in the Lenovo era isn’t easy to answer. The data is inconclusive and what you really have is a bunch of folks opining about the ThinkPad when it was part of the IBM empire against the latest from Lenovo.

To settle this score I went to the place that has the most objective
historical data I could find: Consumerreports.org, a service I highly recommend. A Consumerreports.org subscription at $26 a year–$19 if you get the magazine–pays for itself many times over.

I perused the Consumer Reports ratings on laptops in articles published in 2004 and 2008. In 2004, the then-IBM ThinkPad did seem to rate higher in the niches covered by Consumer Reports. In a August 2008 story, Lenovo’s ThinkPad X300 scored second to last out of eight laptops in the 13.3-inch model category. Lenovo had second place and fourth place finishes out of five 14.1-inch models evaluated. Among 17 15.4-inch laptops rated, Lenovo had a sixth place finisher (ThinkPad T61), 11th place (ThinkPad R61) and last (IdeaPad).

Bottom line: Your feelings about Lenovo are a crapshoot. Lenovo’s X300 was the second most pricey 13.3-inch laptop behind the MacBook Air, but Consumer Reports dinged it in many areas. But corporate workhorses like the T61 did pretty well in the rankings.

Here’s a look at the 2003 repair history for laptops from Consumer Reports, which published the ratings in September 2004.

lenovo1.png

And then there’s the repair history for laptops tracked via a Consumer Reports survey from 2003 to 2007. Consumer Reports published it in August 2008.

lenovo2.png

One notable point: These repair figures are all within a 3 percent margin of error. Is it possible that’s because every PC vendor is outsourcing manufacturing to the same contractor? Nevertheless, Lenovo seems to be carrying the ThinkPad torch at least as well as IBM did.

Thoughts?

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Larry Dignan is Editor in Chief of ZDNet and SmartPlanet as well as Editorial Director of ZDNet's sister site TechRepublic.

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Larry Dignan

Larry Dignan has nothing to disclose. He doesn’t hold investments in the technology companies he covers.

Biography

Larry Dignan

Larry Dignan is Editor in Chief of ZDNet and SmartPlanet as well as Editorial Director of ZDNet's sister site TechRepublic. He was most recently Executive Editor of News and Blogs at ZDNet. Prior to that he was executive news editor at eWeek and news editor at Baseline. He also served as the East Coast news editor and finance editor at CNET News.com. Larry has covered the technology and financial services industry since 1995, publishing articles in WallStreetWeek.com, Inter@ctive Week, The New York Times, and Financial Planning magazine. He's a graduate of the Columbia School of Journalism and the University of Delaware.

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Talkback Most Recent of 72 Talkback(s)

  • I'm deeply dissapointed
    I've bought a business Thinkpad T61 for a premium price one year ago, hoping for the best of their product line. A few weeks ago their update tool pushed a BIOS and graphics card update to fix the famous overheating issue by nvidia. What I find very disappointing is that nowhere in the update did they mention what that was for, and that as a consequence now my laptop would run the side fan almost constantly. Needless to say this made my used-to-be-quiet laptop much louder. I guess battery life is also shorter although I couldn't quantify that.
    Nowhere in the internet was I able to find a reference to this update, or a formal statement to Lenovo's take in this issue. They've simply avoided talking about it, shoving to update on us and hoping that we wouldn't realize.

    When I've heard about the issue I would have expected a recall and a fix. Afterall, I've paid a premium for this laptop and it's not working in the same way as when I've bought it.

    I would never buy form Lenovo again. I only give companies one chance to prove their quality and Lenovo has lost it. My next one will probably HP.
    ZDNet Gravatar
    patibulo
    29th Sep 2008
  • Expectations - BIOS Upgrade DID address issu.
    I know how disappointing it can be when an update does not appear to do what you expect. In this case, however, I have to question your reaction to this one. It sounds like Lenovo recognized an issue with the heat and the video card, and they had an update for the BIOS that would address it. Even though you may not hae been informed of how this would modify the running of the fan, it sounds like an effective fix.
    I agree that any update should not only list what the fix will adress, but in cases where it has impact on the battery life or noise level, it should at te least make a note to the usr to allow the choice to install or not to install the upgrade.
    Just between us, I would rather deal with the slight noise from a laptop fan and the slightly shorter battery life than to have my video card or another component fail due to an easily fixed heating issue.... but that is just one man's opinion.
    ZDNet Gravatar
    jguzzo
    29th Sep 2008
  • It's an attempt to deal with the well-publicized NVidia problems
    NVidia has a serious problem -- a lot of their chips are failing because of localized overheating. It's worst in the notebook parts because they're more likely to cycle between hot and cold, but even desktop chips have been failing. Lenovo can't fix it with a recall because there are no good NVidia GPUs; the basic design of the entire generation of parts is defective. The best they can do right now is to minimize the problem by increasing cooling, and hope that NVidia eventually solves their problems and can supply good chips.

    For more background, read http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/07/09/nvidia-g84-g86-bad and the other articles linked to in that one.
    ZDNet Gravatar
    mark@...
    29th Sep 2008
  • I'd be hacked-off too, but
    not as much at Lenovo as nVidia.
    Lenovo owes their Customers an explanation and it would be nice if their was a tangible "spiff" of some sort. I expect that nVidia is going to get a thorough beating from their Customers - like $$$ returned over a defective product. Lenovo should have negotiated a settlement on your behalf but remember who is at the roor cause of this problem.
    I'm done buying nVidia cards - next one is going to be an ATI.
    ZDNet Gravatar
    pikeman666
    30th Sep 2008
  • nVidia
    @pikeman666 About a year ago i brought an nVidia card (I used to buy AMD's ATI Brand, but the nVidia was cheaper), it over heated and I have never brought a nVidia since!
    ZDNet Gravatar
    mesoftware
    28th Aug 2010
  • RE: Gauging the ThinkPad: Before (IBM) and after (Lenovo)
    A good gauge is how big is their refurbishment PC sales unit. I think price competition has made everyone cheapen their products. They look nice on the outside but inside they are crap. Poor engineering, poor quality control. System specs are revealing that most laptops and desktops are made for the unwary. The low prices are always for the real bottom feeding machines. The outsourcing of customer service is horrible. I like people who can actually speak english. I can only speak from my Dell experience. (BTW, I have an Inspiron 1525 laptop that runs so hot, the bottom doubles as a George Foreman grill). We need a standard upgradeable frame for laptops....
    ZDNet Gravatar
    M.M.Grimes
    29th Sep 2008
  • RE: Gauging the ThinkPad: Before (IBM) and after (Lenovo)
    I have a T61 and have had zero problems with it. Runs Linux (came pre-installed with SLED10) perfectly. It is my first Lenovo and based on my experience so far I will most definitely purchase another one. devil
    ZDNet Gravatar
    Linux User 147560
    29th Sep 2008
  • Lenovo X301 with a 128 GB SSD
    WOW ! a Laptop like no other. cost $4475.00 my $$$. 3 weeks 0ld. onsuite replacement 4year wantty 4GB men DVD burner 128SSD driver has all you can buy! ibm/Lenovo, AND IT IS WELL MADE .. and I DO not work for the CO. CVN76!!!!! TRY ONE, OS VISTA BUSS 64 AND/OR WINDOWS pro
    ZDNet Gravatar
    CVN76
    29th Sep 2008
  • RE: Gauging the ThinkPad: Before (IBM) and after (Lenovo)
    I have always been an IBM Thinkpad fan, and I did not miss a beat in getting Lenovo Thinkpads. I have seven year old Thinkpads that are still giving service, although they are heavy, the batteries have long since given up holding a charge for very long, and they are clearly out of date when it comes to ports, HD size. But they are functional.

    I have not detected a difference with my Lenovos. Only time will tell, but right now I see them as being built to the same standard. I like the business-like design they have stuck to. I like that they do not have a DVD drive in some of their ultra-portable models. I like the track stick. I didn't read the Consumer Reports article that put the X300 down near the bottom, but that organization often has a chip on its shoulder when it comes to something that is premium priced. Believe me, the X300 is a great laptop, although I will be replacing it with an X301 as soon as I can. Improvements? Sure - for example the LCD screen is not as good as Sony's premium screens. Ask me in about five years about durability. No, I do not work for Lenovo and we do have some Toshiba and Dell laptops in our company as well.
    ZDNet Gravatar
    jtimouri
    29th Sep 2008
  • RE: Gauging the ThinkPad: Before (IBM) and after (Lenovo)
    We are switching from Lenovo to Dell for our corporate laptops. The reason has nothing to do with performance or price. Our problem is with their corporate sales department. I can get a new laptop from Dell within a week. Sometimes it takes that long just to get a price quote from Lenovo!
    ZDNet Gravatar
    tom.lewis@...
    29th Sep 2008
  • I favor purchasing Lenovo over Dell.
    I find it surprising that anyone would prefer Dell's
    acquisition time over Lenovo.

    I have had Dell totally botch numerous large orders so
    that I didn?t receive product for up to three months.
    I?ve had prepaid orders with Dell canceled for ?no
    credit? AFTER they cashed the check! They are so far
    beyond ridiculous that I provide a disclaimer to
    clients that request that we acquisition Dell products
    for them.

    Lenovo, on the other hand, keeps several distributors
    stocked so that we can usually get a machine in a
    single day or two. I would suggest contacting an area
    channel partner instead of going direct to Lenovo.

    Tex Mitchell
    AllCity Technology
    www.AllCityTech.com
    ZDNet Gravatar
    TECHMERGENCY
    29th Sep 2008
  • Dell over Lenovo
    My son bought Dell for college. After his sophomore
    year it was useless. Bought him a T43 and 3 1/2 years
    later it is still going strong despite his heavy hand.
    ZDNet Gravatar
    elderlawyer@...
    1st Oct 2008
  • RE: Gauging the ThinkPad: Before (IBM) and after (Lenovo)
    I have an IBM R30 which is still ploughing along like the preverbial cart horse for over five years. I???ve had to do some fixes (cooling fan assembly, hard drive), and there are some that need work on (new keyboard, mainboard circuit issues (some soldering required)), but it???s been through some pretty rough abuse. The thing is that I would have been willing to buy another IBM Thinkpad, but not a Lenovo Thinkpad. I just can???t bring myself around to paying a premium when I can get a ???bottom feeder??? that???s a fraction of the price, that I can replace every year or so, and still come out ahead in the long run.
    ZDNet Gravatar
    cee_bee_cee@...
    29th Sep 2008
  • RE: Gauging the ThinkPad: Before (IBM) and after (Lenovo)
    I have an R60, my wife has an R61, and many of my clients are using fairly recent R and T series ThinkPads.

    Yes, there has been a little bit of reduction in quality, especially in QC; I've seen more lemons than I used to when IBM made them, or so it seems. And customer service and support has gotten somewhat worse, although everyone I have ever spoken to is 100% American, for whatever that is worth.

    So - episodically, my experience over the past 18 months has been that most of them are just fine, but if you get a lemon, you are better off getting the thing replaced if you can get it sorted out within the 30 day limit, than sending it off for repair or refurbishment. I had to send one R60 back THREE times, although it has worked fine since the last repair, about 14 months ago.

    All that said, I'll still take a ThinkPad over a Dell or HP - in my experience they have become even cheesier, with rotten design and manufacture.
    ZDNet Gravatar
    jns@...
    29th Sep 2008
  • RE: Gauging the ThinkPad: Before (IBM) and after (Lenovo)
    In the way back 90s I had a company thinkpad of some model. Now I have a lenovo R61i. They both worked well, meaning they did what I asked them to do and didn't hang or crash. The IBM was beefier. This lenovo feels cheaper, but not enough to be complain.
    ZDNet Gravatar
    bob@...
    29th Sep 2008

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