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Between the Lines

Larry Dignan, Andrew Nusca and Rachel King

Google missed a marketing turn with the 'decision engine' thing

By | June 14, 2009, 6:31pm PDT

Does Google have Bing envy? Is the search giant running scared over Microsoft’s search marketing blitz?

The New York Post seems to think so. In a report the Post blares:

You’d think nothing would get under the skin of search giant Google.

But co-founder Sergey Brin is so rattled by the launch of Microsoft’s rival search engine that he has assembled a team of top engineers to work on urgent upgrades to his Web service, The Post has learned.

Brin’s mission: Find out how Bing’s algorithm differs from its own.

Is Brin really running scared? Probably not, but Google has always carried a bit of healthy paranoia. Bing is optimized around verticals such as shopping, travel and health. As noted last week, Bing works fine as a default search engine and I have no qualms recommending it to others.

What’s really going on? Google has commoditized search and now competitors are doing this “decision engine” spiel. Google’s big challenge right now is marketing. How does a company that has talked search since its inception push this decision engine thing?

The first hint that Google was pondering a repositioning was Brin’s Founder’s Letter to shareholders. Wolfram Alpha clearly got under Google’s skin with its mission to create something that understands what people are pondering. At the time, Brin said:

I think it will soon be possible to have a search engine that “understands” more of the queries and documents than we do today. Others claim to have accomplished this, and Google’s systems have more smarts behind the curtains than may be apparent from the outside, but the field as a whole is still shy of where I would have expected it to be.

And now Bing enters the picture. Bing also hopes to be a decision engine with a “deep understanding” of how folks use the Web.

Now Google has to position itself as an understanding engine. In many respects, Google is already there but with shiny new search objects launching all the time the search giant is going to have to nail its messaging.

More reading:

  • Schmidt: Bing Has Not Changed What Google Is Doing
  • My Bing experiment: Can it be the default search engine?
  • Bartz: Bing isn’t all that (and neither is a Microsoft search deal)
  • Kick off your day with ZDNet's daily e-mail newsletter. It's the freshest tech news and opinion, served hot. Get it.

    Topics

    Larry Dignan is Editor in Chief of ZDNet and SmartPlanet as well as Editorial Director of ZDNet's sister site TechRepublic.

    Disclosure

    Larry Dignan

    Larry Dignan has nothing to disclose. He doesn’t hold investments in the technology companies he covers.

    Biography

    Larry Dignan

    Larry Dignan is Editor in Chief of ZDNet and SmartPlanet as well as Editorial Director of ZDNet's sister site TechRepublic. He was most recently Executive Editor of News and Blogs at ZDNet. Prior to that he was executive news editor at eWeek and news editor at Baseline. He also served as the East Coast news editor and finance editor at CNET News.com. Larry has covered the technology and financial services industry since 1995, publishing articles in WallStreetWeek.com, Inter@ctive Week, The New York Times, and Financial Planning magazine. He's a graduate of the Columbia School of Journalism and the University of Delaware.

    For daily updates, follow Larry on Twitter.

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    RE: Google missed a marketing turn with the 'decision engine' thing
    hwr 7th Nov 2009
    The Best iphone ringtone maker, a smart iPhone ringtone creator and uploader, provides an all-in-one iPhone Ringtone custom solution.
    0 Votes
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    New York Post? Are you serious?
    MisterMiester 14th Jun 2009
    Anything written in the New York Post should be taken with a grain of salt. I believe Google worries about Bing about as much as a water buffalo worries about a gnat on its backside.
    0 Votes
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    I agree. Microsoft is running scared from everything and everyone.
    No More Microsoft Software Ever! 15th Jun 2009
    Only a Microsoft shill would paint Google as being scared instead of secure.
    0 Votes
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    Right. Whatever you say.
    GuidingLight 15th Jun 2009
    Like we could take anything someone with the screen name No More Microsoft Software Ever as an accurate assesment on anything Microsoft.

    Nice try No More Microsoft Software Ever, but never good enough
    0 Votes
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    You Serious?
    dplant@... 15th Jun 2009
    Seems like turn around is fair play. Microsoft has been putting up with this kind of BS forever. All those Windows, Exchange, Outlook, Explorer Killers are having great success...oh wait MS still has 70% plus share in all those markets hmmm... Interesting how one article gets so much attention when there have been thousands the other way.

    If you don't like MS fine, but at least try a product before having an opinion about it. All these commenst by people who don't try the products are lame. I use MS products by informed choice. I also use Linux, Google and others as the situation warrants.

    This anti MS BS is just that BS.
    0 Votes
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    totally agree....
    animageofmine1 15th Jun 2009
    I totally agree @dplat. People have just a norm that MSFT s/w's are rubbish, blah blah blah...without even using them. I have been using MSFT products for my lifetime and I have had no problems. Agree, that there are a few products which are not the best out in the market, but that does not mean every other software from MSFT is a crap. Bing, in this case is amazing...I am impressed by the user friendly interface, the travel, shopping and multimedia search. Its totally amazing. getting 15% share is a big thing. Almost every person on this planet is googling. It is really difficult to change the habit, will take time and Google knows that they have to start thinking seriously now. They just cannot take it casually.
    0 Votes
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    I have had no problems!?
    don_pederson@... 16th Jun 2009
    I have been using MSFT products for my lifetime and I have had no problems.

    Surely you jest! That is a completely unbelievable statement for software from any source, and especially MS with the thousands of security issues and service packs.
    0 Votes
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    Not problems? Not even a single tiny one?
    InAction Man 16th Jun 2009
    There goes your credibility.
    0 Votes
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    It's not about their products. It's about the company.
    No More Microsoft Software Ever! 16th Jun 2009
    Microsoft could sell the gold standard and I still wouldn't buy it. I don't give my money to a lying, cheating, stealing unethical company.

    Microsoft can change it's stripes. They can't give back what was taken in order for them to become the dominant player.

    I won't forgive them for that. I won't support them. No matter how hard they try to make their history of horror disappear. No matter how much Bill Gates tries to redeem himself. Microsoft made their bed. No they can lie in it. And I hope it catches on fire.
    0 Votes
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    Severely Naive View
    andrej770 8th Jul 2009
    This is what cracks me up. You actually think that the world it not cutthroat and that everything has to be fair??? C'mon. Do you really think we had a bona fide reason for going into IRAQ? No!!! Haliburton got billions in uncontested contracts. Was that fair??? No. My point is this. If you were high enough up in the food chain at your job (if you work), you will find out that capitalism is synonymous with being cutthroat. America is built on dog-eat-dog. Our politicians lie and cheat, our preachers lie and cheat, our government lies and cheats...it is what big business does. If you are honestly telling me that you don't like MS just because they are executing the same way that all big business executes, then you are truly naive. Wake up! If you create a company and become a billionaire, you will never have done it without taking advantage of someone somewhere. Taking advantage is not always about doing people wrong. Many times its simply about knowing you have the advantage that others can't see. It works for the military, it works for government, it works for uppity kids and their families that get into the better schools, it works everywhere. Such is life. Deal with it!!!
    0 Votes
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    Brain Dead.
    Cayble Updated - 19th Jun 2009
    No more Microsoft software ever?? Is that where you are at? Well good for you. Such an insightful yet vacuous statement.

    I would like to take a little tiny bit of a higher road then the one you took that lead to such a ridiculous statement. Not a hugely higher road, just a little higher.

    Lets start with the obvious; if you are using computers and are not using a Microsoft OS then you must be using Apple/OSX or some version of Linux. If you are using OSX then that is fine for you, if it does what you want and provides you with something you feel you cannot get out of a Windows OS then fine. Apple makes good computers and everyone I have known thats used OSX says they really like it a lot so I imagine it is a good OS as well.

    If you use Linux, certainly thats fine as well. I used Linux SUSE myself for a while and I can say that I think in general terms Linux is a very good OS. And if Linux is meeting your needs then great, especially if it gives you something you cannot get from a Windows OS that is important to you. Very good.

    Although it seems an overwhelming number of Apple enthusiasts and Linux zealots cannot even give that much to the multiple hundreds of millions of happy Windows users, that is the fact that they actually like Windows and find Windows provides something for them that they want that Linux and Apple do not have.

    What I do think needs to be said is that the vast majority of Windows users just find that Apple computers plain and simply cost way too much for a computer that hardly plays any popular games, does not allow for many kinds of upgrades, such as new monitors, high end multiple graphics card installations etc. and for the most part comes only in white and provides for no real individual style or selection. I'm not even going to spend significant time going over the fact that Apple makes the most proprietary computer systems generally available to the public and of course installing OSX into anything deemed to be non-Apple is a recipe for disaster.

    And Linux, while at least will usually install and run great on a users hardware of choice it can result in a search for specific drivers to get all hardware operational in some circumstances. And using Linux results in giving up all your Microsoft software unless you go the route of Wine that helps but simply relies on the use of another layer of software. Running Linux may provide for various levels of increased functionality, and even security but the methods used to come to those increased levels also typically requires that a Linux user has to use the operating system in ways that are more complex and completely foreign to former Windows users. While for some who use Windows now, the move to Linux may indeed provide for a great alternative but, for the majority it results in headaches and frustration as Linux can make former simple tasks into research projects for the uninitiated. And for those who run "must have" programs that refuse to operate on Linux its a non starter from the word go.

    So if it is the case for you "No more Microsoft software ever" then fine, but if your trying to make some kind of blanket statement of a position that the rest of the world should take, your narrow vision only exceeds your short sighted opinions.



    0 Votes
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    Google is scared of bing...
    InAction Man 15th Jun 2009
    as the fox is scared of the chicken.
    The EC: Losers for the losers...
    0 Votes
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    ZDNet: By the clueless for the clueless
    schmandel@... 15th Jun 2009
    You can't make this stuff up, but ZDNet thinks no one will notice when they do.
    0 Votes
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    Staff
    Umm does it say anywhere
    Larry Dignan 15th Jun 2009
    that the NY Post is gospel? "Is Brin really running scared? Probably not..."

    0 Votes
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    They have great sources (don't forget... Wall St. is in NYC) and frequently break big business stories. The Sports section is great, too, of course.

    I'm not saying that this story in particular is accurate or not, but I am saying that I trust what they have in their Business section more than I trust most things on the Web.

    My 2?.

    And, seriously, if you were Google, would it be smart to sit around and say A) "Ha! Microsoft sucks, I don't care what they're doing!" or would it be smart to say B) "Hmm... I wonder what Microsoft is doing that we can learn from. They're getting some pretty solid press right now."

    If you answered A), please do me a favor and become CEO of one of my competitors. Duh.
    0 Votes
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    When Bing bombs...
    eposter Updated - 14th Jun 2009
    When Bing bombs watch Google stock skyrocket and Microsoft stock crash hard like Vista on your new laptop. Bill Gates will have to give up saving the African continent from diseases to find a cure for MSFT stupidity.
    0 Votes
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    Haha...
    TylerM89 Updated - 15th Jun 2009
    What makes you think people will quit using Bing? The author said it was already his default and it's my default. I know a handful of people I work with who use it now too.

    Your Vista comment is kinda... outdated... you do realize that the driver issue that plagued Vista (Which caused the crashing) lasted all of 6 months after release, due to hardware vendors playing catch up.

    Not like you care, right? Didn't think so. Continue with your mindless zealot rage on the evil machine, which you still think is Microsoft.
    0 Votes
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    Nuff written.
    0 Votes
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    all things Bing equal
    mark16_15@... Updated - 15th Jun 2009
    I did a few searches with Bing but they just didn't have as good a result as I got with Google. Some top results indicated a poor page ranking system. All things bing equal I'll stay away from Microsoft. I just installed Ububtu as the proncipal OS on my eee pc. I want to see if I can live as well with it as with XP. I'm not a linux fanatic but as I see it, the only problem with Linux is not that it's weaker than Windows, but simply not enough people use it to attract enough peripheral makers to develop drivers. It's a viciuos cycle. Netbooks and people fed up with MS could change all of that.
    And in this case you are clearly wrong and as time passes, it will become clear just how incredibly wrong you are. Bing is getting used, and by a whole lot more people then I ever thought there would, but, its working.

    See you back here when you apologize for making yourself look so foolish? Or no? Probably not. It seems to be the mainstay of the anti-Microsoft crowd to spout barefaced lies and then fail to show their faces afterwords when the truth is on the front pages.
    0 Votes
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    lol..yeah
    animageofmine1 15th Jun 2009
    i agree Tyler. I don't know what that guy was talking about ? Where do they land up from ? My default is also bing. I used to google before, but now i use both...especially image/video search, travel and shopping happy

    Comon, appreciate what is good. MSFT had a bad time coz of vista issues, but they improved now and back on track. Win 7 is super fast, Project Natal is gonno rock, Zune HD is gonno be awesome with its new set of useful features, Bing is super, virtualization is super duper, sql server rocks anytime. Dude, they are coming back.
    0 Votes
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    Crash like Vista?
    OhTheHumanity 15th Jun 2009
    Well if it crashes like Vista is won't be much of a crash. Not had a crash on Vista in the 2 years I have had it. Same for many others I know. You must not use it.

    Bing is a good search engine. It will take a long time to take market share if they do, but if you use it you can see it works pretty well. For some reason I believe you don't speak from experience. Just what idea's pop into your head at any given time.
    0 Votes
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    After the last round of auto-updates
    Mahegan 15th Jun 2009
    My Vista HP has crashed everytime the wireless transceiver fails.
    Didn't used to...
    0 Votes
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    Yeah right
    cyberbull 15th Jun 2009
    Yeah man, dead on. MS stock TOTALLY depends on Bing's success, everybody knows that Bing is THE core competence and cash cow of MS. Keep buying that Google stock, mate!
    0 Votes
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    Bing is good.
    BigTipper 15th Jun 2009
    My little laptop, running Vista, has never blue-screened once. Runs great. Gotta say, too, that I like Bing, so far. I haven't committed to it as my default, but I am very impressed, so far.
    0 Votes
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    I like Bing too
    TruckerTomPodcast 15th Jun 2009
    Bing is giving me the search results that I want, plus links to valid sites never ran into before that don't seem to exist in the world of Google. I made it my default search engine in a bunch of my browsers a couple of weeks ago and so far out of literally dozens and dozens of searches I've only deliberately gone to Google.Com perhaps two or three times at most. I also really like the way that Bing's image and video searches work, far superior to Google's.
    0 Votes
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    BING BONG!!
    phoenixcomm 15th Jun 2009
    oh no said the wise owl: Its MS Live Search Rebranded, with a webaster console added.

    who is scarad? the wolf or the fox..
    0 Votes
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    phoenixcomm, new brand has a purpose happy. It makes you look lame...do some research next time.

    The new brand has a lot of new features visually and technically. The algoright is totaly different from Google and it yields results super fast too. Its my home page now happy. Do I need to comment more ?
    0 Votes
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    and Google are the good guys. That's exactly what they want. You
    probably still think OSX and Firefox are invulnerable to malware too.
    0 Votes
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    Pay no attention to facts
    comp_indiana 16th Jun 2009
    It's not that other browsers are invulnerable (as if that is even possible)
    but that they are much more secure and also make an attempt to support
    real standards (rather than perverting them to take control of the web as
    is so obvious with I.E.'s approach.)

    As always, MS is late to the game, but thinks they can just throw their
    weight/money around to win. They are running out of time. If Vista 7
    is another flop, then what?
    0 Votes
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    Oh! Sorry! We already know the answer to the what if question; what if OSX or Linux is a flop.

    They will just keep on truckin' with their meager market share and the Linux shills will carp about all the bad things they don't like about Windows and Apple will make misleading and insulting Apple guy commercials if for no other reason then to appease their fanatical fans because they haven't done much to inspire Windows users to switch.
    0 Votes
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    It looked like Google has bombed
    GuidingLight 15th Jun 2009
    in our offices. Everybody seems to be using Bing alot more then I would have anticipated.

    Nice troll, but even you do not believe it, so please cease wasting our time here.
    0 Votes
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    Your 'Joke' fails.
    dreslough 16th Jun 2009
    Bill Gates will have to give up saving the African continent from diseases


    You say that as if it's a bad thing what Bill is doing. That's sad. I'm glad he finally decided to apply common sense to his everyday life and put his time and money where it would do the most good. Don't ostracize him for it. The world needs more people like Bill Gates. What he's doing makes the whole MS vs. Google argument seem petty by comparison.
    When you talk garbage and plain reality of what is really going on makes that obvious, you come across like a whining maggot thats running scared.
    I think Cuil is the new Google-killer... no wait, Wikia
    Search... no wait, Wolfram|Alpha... no wait, Bing... no
    wait...
    0 Votes
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    Well said!
    JBLarcomb 15th Jun 2009
    Exactly! I've been running searches in both Google and Bing (same searches) and Google's results are almost always more useful.

    This leads me to believe that Bing is all hype (like most Microsoft software). It's okay, but not better than Google.

    Marketing strikes again!
    0 Votes
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    Lol, yeh it is almost as tired as "This is
    AboveAverageJoe 15th Jun 2009
    the year of the GNU/Linux Desk top." Been hearing that since 1995 when I bought RedHat Work Station.
    0 Votes
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    Speaking about Wolfram
    JonWayn 16th Jun 2009
    Has anyone noticed the behavior of text on the homepage while scrolling? Not cool
    The share percent is higher because of club BING! Club
    bing/ Microsoft is giving away free prizes such as Xbox's
    and free games when you play word games and the word that
    are answers are also searched on Bing. this make the
    search numbers go up. I wish journalists would do a
    better job of researching the story before they just
    publish the story. Bunch of Morons, they should be *****
    slapped hard! Get you facts right....
    0 Votes
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    Wow.....
    OhTheHumanity 15th Jun 2009
    I love to see people call others morons without even having the hard facts themselves. I take it you work for microsoft having the inside knowledge of what is really making the searches go up?

    Kick the damn American habit of jumping to conclusions and ridiculing others with your made up facts. If you got this info from a factual report please post. Until then don't look so worried about Bing.
    0 Votes
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    Facts
    tmsbrdrs 15th Jun 2009
    Bing has been reported on daily by either CNet or ZDNet.

    IE6 now uses Bing as its default search engine.

    IE6 is still used by the majority of businesses with IT professionals.

    Bing commercials are being played on television.


    Now, take all of that into account and you will see a pattern start emerging. If Yahoo were putting out commercials to push its search engine, you'd see numbers going up. It's not a bad search engine either, has a different look than Google. It gets search results which are normally on topic.

    If Ask.com were putting out commercials, you'd see a rise in its search market share.

    Now, imagine that Yahoo or Ask.com were placed as the default for IE6 instead of Bing, would you not see more people using one of those and not see as large a rise in market share for Bing?

    I've done a few searches, Bing isn't bad but it's not nearly good enough to replace Google as my default and Yahoo as my backup. It's not as innovative as Wolfram-Alpha and it's not as good for vertical searches as the search for each respective topic.

    There's a reason Google is at the top. It does a good job quickly, it blends in with your daily routine and it's a very humble search engine (not trying to be a destination more than an index).
    0 Votes
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    Yahoo did advertise
    LiquidLearner 15th Jun 2009
    and it really didn't help them all that much. Bing on the other hand is a new brand name with fresh advertising. It's apparently working some because I'm asked about it more and more. But I really hate giving blanket statements about something like a search engine. Bing is absolutely wonderful at certain tasks. Maps, yellow pages, encyclopedia (not wiki), travel and shopping are all much better with Bing. Which is what most people use search engines for that aren't tech orientated. For technical searches and things of that nature then Google is better. When you want lots of raw info to parse through, Google is better. When you want to see the best price on a Wave Radio, Bing is the winner. Google has Youtube in its pocket which seems to make it better at Video search, even if I do like the live previews on Bing. Images are a wash.

    Yahoo... Well, Yahoo seems to be the loser. Google+Bing is quite a bit better than Google+Yahoo. I've almost never found anything useful on Yahoo.
    I am hoping, both professionally and personally, for the search engine that finally provides accurate results to specific queries.

    I recently searched for - private clubs in Barcelona - and - membership business clubs in Barcelona - (for Spain).

    For the first query Bing returned a sponsored link for a vip personal training and top three links were for hotels, and Google returned nightclubs and nightclub events for the first three links.

    For the second query Bing gave me an organisation that promotes cultural events and Google gave me hotels and the same club.

    It has been a long time since I have felt lucky with Google and the Bing experience has not proven more effective as of today.

    SEO, SEM and inaccurate algorithms are making it tremendously difficult to find what you are looking for using existing search engines, when the answer is right in front of our faces. Focus on CONTENT and there will be better results.

    Use the query, determine accurate synonyms of the query and make sure that it is reflected in the page content. Somewhere on that page it should say Barcelona - Spain, it should say Business (professionals, entrepreneurs, executives) Club (network, society, organisation) and it should say membership (private, invitation only, closed door, exclusive). Anything else should be paid advertising.

    The one that rights (pun intended) the algorithm to return accurate results will have a chance and capturing a gigantic market and if current leaders don't realise that, they will miss out on a lot more.

    Maybe it's time for the Yellow Pages of the world to rethink their online possibilities?
    0 Votes
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    Wrong Focus
    Bebedo 15th Jun 2009
    You are arguing against the random and open nature of the internet, to be more of an organized organism. That will never happen.

    You search for "club", for example, could mean anything from club soda to a thick stick of wood to a dance hall. How is a search engine supposed to know what you meant?

    As for private, you could get porno images of privates to the military rank, to "excusive" spots -- private beaches, private showings, privacy concerns and more.

    What YOU need to focus on is ow to execute a successful search, instead of complaining about the internet, which will NOT change fo ryour benefit. I find that most people do not know the best methods to search for information on the internet. It's not their fault, there is simply no instruction manual for it. Although Googling online does show me a number of hints and tips -- if you know where to look!

    0 Votes
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    Why not
    terjeb@... 15th Jun 2009
    That will never happen.

    Why not? Because Google doesn't want it? People
    are making noise about Web 2.0 and they think it
    is Ajax and some child-play stuff where you can
    update web pages in-situ. That's not Web 2.0.
    Web 2 is the semantic web. A web where you
    publish documents that are self-describing. Not
    how they look. What they contain.

    Google didn't want it. For obvious reasons - no
    point in having a cool free-form search engine
    if everybody and their mother can put together a
    semantic search engine that will give
    significantly more relevant results.

    It's not too late. Implementing a semantic web
    can be done today. Easily. You just need someone
    with brains leading the charge, and I have no
    reason to believe there are such beasts at
    Google (nor at Microsoft).
    0 Votes
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    Am I doing something wrong?
    i8thecat Updated - 15th Jun 2009
    "You search for "club", for example, could mean anything from club soda to a thick stick of wood to a dance hall. How is a search engine supposed to know what you meant?"

    I tried searching for "club" on Bing and all I got were pictures of dead baby seals. sad

    Apparently, aluminum bats make a "bing" sound when you club a baby seal. shocked
    0 Votes
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    I just searched for "club" on Bing
    GuidingLight 15th Jun 2009
    and I did not get even one dead baby seal picture.

    I did get pictures of Brin and Page "clubbing" their employees with aluminum bats for screwing up so badly on this shocked
    0 Votes
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    I hate Liars. NT
    AboveAverageJoe 15th Jun 2009
    .
    0 Votes
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    Google's fault
    terjeb@... 15th Jun 2009
    and inaccurate algorithms are making it
    tremendously
    difficult to find what you are looking for using
    existing search engines


    Actually, I'd lay the blame squarely on Google
    for
    this. Google could have lead the way to a real
    Web 2.0,
    you know, the semantic one, not the toy one
    where
    people think that stuff that updates on a web-
    page
    without a reload is "AMAZING".

    Google worked against the semantic web from the
    get-go.
    No wonder of course, as a search engine they
    didn't
    really have anything to gain. Still, the fact
    that the
    semantic web never caught on was to a degree
    caused by
    Google and now you are suffering from it.

    We can hope things improve, but I am not
    hopeful. For
    one, I don't think there are enough smart people
    at
    Google to understand what the semantic web is.
    Nor at
    Microsoft for that matter.
    0 Votes
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    Since you're a judge on "how smart"
    LiquidLearner 15th Jun 2009
    the engineers at either company are, I highly suggest you get to work. Apparently you've already got it all figured out in your head, now just write the algorithms and data centers and off you go!

    Oh, you can't? Much easier to believe that engineers are incompetant rather than processing power isn't really capable of understanding human intention... Of course I can get an e-mail from my boss and it may have multiple meanings that you don't get from written word. Until computers can actually understand the emotion in our voice and how those inflections dictate word and phrase meaning, a truly semantec web experience is out of reach. Text-only does not convey enough information.
    The Best iphone ringtone maker, a smart iPhone ringtone creator and uploader, provides an all-in-one iPhone Ringtone custom solution.

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