Between the Lines

Larry Dignan, Andrew Nusca and Rachel King

Is XP finally dying or is it the PCs it's been running on?

By | August 2, 2011, 11:35am PDT

Summary: Microsoft really, really wants you to move to Windows 7, but you still really don’t want to leave XP do you? Besides, you’d rather be using a tablet or a smartphone anyway wouldn’t you?

At long, long last, Windows XP is no longer the number one, end-user operating system. It only took, Microsoft, what? Not quite two years to get desktop users off XP to Windows 7? Well, you could look at it that way, but you’d be wrong.

The truth is that users haven’t been moving from XP to 7 of their own free will. They’ve been moving only because their old XP PCs are finally giving up the ghost. Then, and only then, are they getting Windows 7. Or, are they? If you look closer at Net Applications’ latest end-user Web statistics you’ll see that desktop users are Not moving to Windows 7 in droves.

While XP has dropped to 49.69%, Windows 7 use is only up to 27.92%. So, where is everyone else? Have they finally moved on to desktop Linux!? Ha. I wish! No, while almost 10% of users are still running Vista-the poor sods-many other people are moving on to Mac OS X.

You didn’t need a survey to tell you that though. All you need to do is look around any coffee shop and you can see that for yourself. In one of my own local favorite hangouts-the Dripolator in Asheville, NC–I just did a quick count and there’s eight Mac laptops is use; three Windows PCs, two Windows 7 and one XP; and yours truly with my Samsung Chromebook.

What’s far more telling though was the one woman who was using her iPad 2 with a Bluetooth keyboard. Two others were working with older iPads and one was using a Galaxy Tab using just their fingers. Everyone in the place, of course, had a smartphone. The phones were evenly divided between iPhone and Android models with one guy getting ticked off at his Blackberry. It’s the tablet and smartphone users who are really pointing the way to the end-user operating system future.

According to a recent IDG global smartphone survey, 69% of users are now using their phones for business. Specifically, “70% browse the Internet regularly and use mobile applications. These devices are no longer limited to calls, email, and text messages as people go online from home, on the move, and in the office. When surfing the web on smartphones, respondents indicated that general and IT news are most popular, followed by social networking access.”

In addition, 20% of this group, who were self-selected, tech. savvy users, already own tablets. Half of them are using their tablets for work. They’re using them for “Web browsing (93%), email (84%), mobile apps (72%), watching videos (69%), and reading publications (66%).”

The world is leaving fat-client desktops, like Windows, and yes, Mac OS X and desktop Linux behind. The desktop operating system isn’t going to die out, but it’s already becoming less important. In the next few years, more and more of us are going to be using tablets and smartphones for both home use and business.

In the long run, the question isn’t going to be “Which desktop operating system is going to be the winner?” No, it’s going to be, “Which mobile operating system will be the winner.” In 2021, we won’t be comparing Windows, Mac OS X and Linux as much as we will be Apple iOS; Google Android; HP webOS; other Linux-based mobile operating system such as MeeGo; and, possibly, Windows 8.

“XP? WIndows 7? Those old things?” We’ll say. “I don’t know how the old folks ever coped with them!”

Related Stories:

Windows XP finally dips below 50 per cent mark

Windows’ Endgame. Desktop Linux’s Failure

As Microsoft’s monopoly crumbles, its mobile future is crucial

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Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols, aka sjvn, has been writing about technology and the business of technology since CP/M-80 was the cutting edge, PC operating system. Elsewhere on ZDNet, SJVN covers Networking and Open Source.

Disclosure

Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols

Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols is a freelance writer. He does not own stocks or other investments in any technology company.

Biography

Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols

Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols, aka sjvn, has been writing about technology and the business of technology since CP/M-80 was the cutting edge, PC operating system; 300bps was a fast Internet connection; WordStar was the state of the art word processor; and we liked it.

His work has been published in everything from highly technical publications (IEEE Computer, ACM NetWorker, Byte) to business publications (eWEEK, InformationWeek, ZDNet) to popular technology (Computer Shopper, PC Magazine, PC World) to the mainstream press (Washington Post, San Francisco Chronicle, BusinessWeek).

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RE: Is XP finally dying or is it the PCs it's been running on?
kiwisewi77 24th Aug
It's called IE6. People MUST run IE6. Why?

I hate the backlog of crap that is stored on IE5 and 6.
Altho the memory on my XP is only 525MB the C and D drive are quite large.
Problem being C (9GB) drive is hogged up with such a huge MSOS data the C drive runs at 1/3 of capacity.
Yes I wish to upgrade, when my book is published and I make some money okay! happy
Til then I'm broke and my XP is super fast.
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LOL! What a bunch of BS!
William Farrell 2nd Aug
The truth is that users haven?t been moving from XP to 7 of their own free will. They?ve been moving only because their old XP PCs are finally giving up the ghost

I guess you could look at it that way, as opposed to accepting the truth.

It's not like Windows 7 is the catalyst that gets people to want to buy a new PC, right?

Or was that the part that you skipped over and I wasn't supposed to mention?
@William Farrell
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I know no one is going to read comment #234 in an interface that does NOT allow users to even view posts in the modern convention of last posted first -- but does it strike anyone else who has fought their way down to the bottom of this stack of posts that maybe if ZDNet put a little more attention into improving their clunky infrastructure and less into prodding their tech-pop scribblers into ginning up one more non-story that ZD might not be circling the virtual drain?

Any other old-timers remember when ZD's old flagship PC Magazine fielded 500+ pages almost every fortnight?
@William Farrell - not so much. Let me give you a couple of examples...

1) My supervisor's wife had a laptop that died, so she was given a new laptop with Windows 7. She didn't like 7 and wanted to go back to XP, mostly because of the familiarity with XP. He had no idea how to get rid of 7 and install XP (thanks to the board's BIOS forcing ACHI mode), so I got 2 days at work to install Windows XP and a free USB floppy drive. I also convinced him to get a new hard drive for the computer, so if they ever wanted to move back to Windows 7 it would be as easy as swapping the hard drive.

2) When my mom's PIII tower died in 2007, she ended up paying more for a new system with Windows XP Pro installed on it than she would have for the same system with Windows Vista Business. She didn't want Vista, not because of the whole stability issue caused by 3rd party hardware manufacturers; she didn't want Vista because it wasn't familiar to her.

3) A friend my wife worked with bought a laptop with Windows 7 on it right around the time 7 was released, but she didn't like it (same reasons). So I was asked to make it a XP laptop. A hard drive swap (she wanted an SSD) and an XP installation later, and she is still a happy camper.

4) Finally, one for the Mac haters - One other friend of mine bought a first generation MacBook Air "because it was cute". She had no desire to run Mac OS on it. I had the unhappy task of installing Windows XP using bootcamp and an overpriced external DVD drive. Again, it was the familiarity issue in play - she wanted an OS that she knew.

So yeah, I'd say that many Windows users in the consumer space aren't moving to Windows 7 of their own free will, but instead are moving to Windows 7 because they feel they don't have much of a choice. As for me, I like 7 - not as much as Snow Leopard or Lion, but it's definitely an improvement over XP and Vista. It just wouldn't be my OS of choice while Mac OS is still Mac OS.
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  • Flagged
Yeah, that's why Microsoft even now is letting people buy XP:

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/windows-xp-gets-yet-another-reprieve-from-microsoft/6819

It's because 7 has done so well at replacing XP.

Steven
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What people? The ones from July 12, 2010?
William Farrell Updated - 2nd Aug
@sjvn@...
and yet here it is a year later, and I know of absolutely no-one who's taken advantage of that offer.

Have you?
Back to the question, though - Is Windows 7 is the catalyst that gets people to want to buy a new PC?
@sjvn@...
The user has always been able to downgrade any "professional" (non-home) Windows OS to a previous version (provided you have access to installation media). You can downgrade it to NT 3.1 if you really really want to. You could have downgraded XP Pro to NT 3.1 10 years ago if you wanted to.

What that article was really referring to was the ability of *OEMs* to pre-install that previous version, instead of the end-user. I haven't seen too many OEMs still offering XP; maybe some mom & pop shops still do...
@sjvn
Who are you trying to confuse, seriously?

Just because you can buy Volumn Licenses and exercise downgrade rights to XP doesn't mean it's supported.

There are legitimite reasons for enterprise exercise downgrade with their VL and if they want to downgrade to XP without support, good luck to them

And I don't have to remind you that they're already paid for a Full license of Windows 7. MS got their money anyway.
I guess you could look at it that way, as opposed to accepting the truth.

Why is he so 'definitely' wrong? That's the reason I bought one. The XP machine died.

It's not like Windows 7 is the catalyst that gets people to want to buy a new PC, right?

No it's just stuck on there because the sheeple accept it as part of the package. Or they have to have it on there for business, like I do.

Try not to confuse that for "love" or "reverence".

and yet here it is a year later, and I know of absolutely no-one who's taken advantage of that offer.

Does the world surround you and your immediate surroundings? Many enterprises out there are still using XP as we speak. Some will wait until the last minute before they change.
@sjvn@...

http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp

You might want to go to this website because their sample group is larger. I am going to put Windows 7 on as an upgrade. Look at it this way, no one installs Linux from any major OEM because they want to sell a PC. And portable devices cannot create content. PCs will be here for a long time.
@sjvn@...
It's called IE6. People MUST run IE6. Why? Corporations that are STILL running legacy crap web applications that are written so horribly wrong that no modern browser will work with it. Not FireFox, certainlty not Chrome and definetly not IE7 or higher....all puke and die when running these legacy web apps that are running these major corporations.

Just try running Deltek CostPoint or SAP over one of those modern browsers. Most financial departments in any company with 40,000 or more employees would be dead in the water. And if you try convincing those same companies to jump onto the XP Mode virtualization band wagon of Windows 7 you're in for a lot of red tape to get such a change request to move forward.

It wouldn't matter if Windows 7 had a direct neural link interface with 3D holographic projections and could make changes to 10,000 high definition feature length movies all simultaneously while playing the star spangled banner all on a 80286 processor with 8MB of video memory.
@osreinstall@... You used w3schools as evidence that the article is incorrect. Read this part of that web page you posted:

"From the statistics below, collected from W3Schools' log-files over a period of seven years, you can read the long term trends of operating system usage."

The statistics are from w3schools, not for all Internet users. Most users don't visit w3schools. Most who visit it do it from the system on which they are doing development work.
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Love the coffehouse sample.
Lester Young 3rd Aug
@sjvn@... It proves that posers who want to look busy with their status symbols while wasting time in coffee shops use smartphones, tablets, and MacBooks. Get one to go, walk around, see the sights, do something social, and get some exercise you nerds. Then budget some time to do what you really need to do digitally. The use case for mobile connectivity isn't about sitting in coffee shops.
@sjvn@...

Another thing which may skew the statistics of Windows XP:

My old machines, most of them, were converted to VMs before they died or mothballed, from Win98 on up thru Win2k SP4 to XP.

I stopped there, not even trying to convert my one Vista based Quad CPU tower, which runs the XP VMs much faster than the older Pentium boxes did. All of the XP VMs are stripped down to 4 or 8 GB virtual disks for speed, security, and DVD archive. Since VMs have rather generic drivers, etc. the "one OS fits all" fluff can be stripped out.

I never had a problem upgrading with service packs on a VM either, if the software demanded it.

It was just simpler to clone entire old machines than take time and effort to reinvent old familiar wheels.

Generic virtual machines are simpler to deal with multi booting various operating systems and SECURELY running dedicated applications, without conflicts, when using a newer CPU with solid state 'disks' and terabyte slow disk archives as host.

If I use a Virtual browser, it will be counted as an XP box even if it running under a different OS Host. Given how easy XP VMs are to create as old machine backups, I wonder how many of them are counted as "running" now?

I doubt that XP will die, even for decades from now, and even if no longer supported by Microsoft, if Virtual machines can continue to support it.
@PB_z

Is Lenove a mon and pop operation? One customer received 900 of their M70e machines in the last 3 weeks. Come with a nice Windows 7 Pro sticker and Windows XP SP3 installed on the hard drive.
@William Farrell@...and yet here it is a year later, and I know of absolutely no-one who's taken advantage of that offer.

Entire enterprises have taken advantage of the offer. My employer, a state agency, has been doing it ever since more recent versions have been introduced. We, as most state governments, don't have the revenue to replace the entire infrastructure that more recent Windows versions would require.
@sjvn@...
I have to say with all the new laptops I have ... I really really REALLY want to go back to XP
@sjvn@...
AND ...
ie6 is the most customizable too .. sorry
@davidr69

It still shows that adoption of Windows 7 is still higher than using some coffee shop as a standard. It also shows that Linux is higher than the 1% so the global study would skew towards a open source favoritism. A coffee shop as a base of study, come on, really? That is based on a small sample that accuracy is basically luck. Most people that have a smart phone also have a PC. Smart phones do not replace. They add to it.
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@William Farrell If you don't know anyone that is still buying PCs with XP you are pretty disconnected from IT.

large corporations are still using it so new refresh PCs will have XP. The timeline to fully replace with Windows 7 computers is years down the road in many cases.

And I know noone that has bought Windows 7 to install on an existing computer or that has bought a new computer just to get Windows 7. I guess my world is as small as yours.
@sjvn@...
You've hit it with that. Windows 7 would be struggling as Vista did, if only Windows XP was still available as a pre-load, or even at retail.

The only reason the cottage industry that was formed when Vista appeared has died down is because XP is no longer available, and during it's run, Microsoft began tying installs to the motherboard. As someone with 5 {full} copies of XP Pro, and 4 {full} copies of XP Home, I have no fear of losing its usage, save for driver availablity. I have 3 copies of Windows 7 Ultimate (1 is a Steve Ballmer edition! ) yet I prefer, most of the time, to work on an XP machine. If I had gotten hold of several copies of XP Pro x64 at a good price, I would certainly be using XP beyond 2014.

BTW, I am still awaiting a version of Linux that has complete man pages, so that I can use it as I would an old copy of System V.
and bothered to buy a new PC. The fact is and alway has been that the majority of Windows sales happen because of corporate buys. The last time any Windows user was dancing excited to upgrade the OS was Windows 95.
@fr_gough

Windows 7 actually created buzz here. I still have people asking me about it.
@fr_gough Not Windows XP that integrated the NT kernel into the consumer-facing OS? No more Win98 out of resources issues?
@fr_gough
Right...Im mean its not like it became the fastest selling OS of all time or anything. I would REALLY love to know what OS you fell gets people "hot and bothered"?
@fr_gough Don't minimize the home users, when XP rolled it was the ******** gamers platform of choice and Windows 7 is still a better gaming platform than most.

reality is, when MS pushed people towards the 360 their desktop platform lost some steam but a lot of home users still use it.
@timotim He's a mac guy!
@fr_gough
I have people asking me about Windows 7 all the time too. It definitely created a buzz. Most are novice users who are still running XP btw. And when I tell them my thoughts on Windows 7 based upon my own expereinces, that Vista was just a horrible repeat of the Windows ME fiasco and Microsoft got it right with Windows 7, they say that is what they have heard elsewhere as well. So that is the word on the street. Not just my own opinion.
@fr_gough

Looks like you touched a nerve. All the Windows Trolls are out to 'prove' you wrong. But, they know you are really right. There is nothing in Windows 7 that is a new improvement that common users 'must have'. It does have hardware requirements that manufacturers 'must have', as it means that they will need more powerful computers to run it.

It unfortunately means that there is more "Windows Hell" out there for the poor non computer people, as the appearance changed enough that they no longer recognize the buttons they so painfully memorized a few years ago.

Avoiding Windows Hell is the main reason most people won't leave a computer system. If Windows or Apple was so painful to learn, then anything else must be just as painful.

I believe that most of the posters here who flail so badly at any possible replacement for Microsoft/Apple/Whatever are really low level users who think they are 'Power Users' but really are just button pushers who can't understand what is really happening in a computer.

As an Engineer who has designed such systems, I do understand these things on a register level. As such, I don't find any real problem going from one system to another.

So, I find most of these posts quite entertaining. So many think they are experts, but really have no clue.

The eventual death of XP will mean that the virus writers, and other criminals will have to find other low hanging fruit. So far, Apple looks easier to crack than Windows 7. But Windows 7 is still not a secure system.

Unfortunately, there are also a lot of Linux users out there that are also vulnerable. True, Linux CAN be secured, but most installs aren't secure.

I'm not sure that windows or Apple can be secure, without major modifications. Apple could be secured, as the BSD Unix it's based on can be secured, but doing so would make it a pain to use for most users. Windows, of course has too many holes to ever be secure. Securing Windows would mean that no legacy applications would work. Windows update wouldn't work either.

Oh, well, in 20 years, we will have very different operating systems.
@Peter Perry

360 didn't' really kill the PC market there at all. So what, Consoles are cheaper, but I haven't seen a good xBox live game that didn't land on the PC weeks later. The only thing that xBox has is a 200 Price tag. Real Gamers aren't' gonna stop PC gaming because of the xBox. Not happening. We know PC gaming will last threw the down time of the Consoles, and just like every other generation of Console gaming PC brought it back!

The only thing Consoles do is dumb down gaming as a whole, and by the end of each generation then you see declined PC hardware sales. FACT!! Takes about 6 years, and in 10 it will hit low.
@William Farrell

Our enterprise continues to buy Lenovo laptops that we immediately image with WinXP, at least until we get a change in our licensing agreement from Microsoft.
@benched42
Since XP does all I need it to do, and since I can run it on any machine that I own, the only thing that would get me to install Windows7 is if somebody gave me a new computer AND win7 for free. Any invention or program will evolve to a point when You don't really need anything more. (Like, what does Office 2011 have that is so much better that I wouldn't want to use my Office 2000 anymore? I can't think of anything.) XP works well today and tomorrow, and I don't have to buy any new licenses or computers for a long long time.
@William Farrell

Oh, and one more thing. In this economy, how many people are going to go out and buy a new computer because they want Windows 7? Not many. Most will keep using Windows XP until their computer hardware dies. As the old saying goes "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". Too many people don't have the several hundred dollars lying around to get new computer bling.
@benched42 Am I the only one here who, if I was using Windows XP and wanted Windows 7, would just go to a store and buy a copy of Windows 7 without buying a whole new PC in the process? Where is this idea that you have to buy a new PC to get Windows 7 coming from?
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The idea, if idea it is, came from this
ego.sum.stig@... Updated - 3rd Aug
That over the course of PC history a new OS version typically required a far beefier set of hardware. Windows 7 (by all accounts) kind of bucks that trend, but I guess people are suspicious that they're going to have to pay a lot more by buying an upgrade to the OS and then finding they're going to have to buy a newer/bigger/beefier computer (which will come with Windows 7) to get a decent experience.
@jgm : I think that b/c in general, machines running XP usually don't have enough hardware resources to run 7. And buying a retailed Win7 license is quite expensive compared to a new machine + 7 included. There is an interesting alternative that people should probably attempt, re-using the same machine and use Linux instead.
@benched42
We upgraded my wife's laptop, and that will be it for awhile.
@jgm
The problem with the Windows 7 upgrade process, for novice users, is that it dumps their entire hard drive into an archive folder and installs a fresh clean copy of Windows 7. That's exactly how it should be done, but it leaves the novice user wondering where all of their documents just vanished off to and what happened to all of their applications that they don't have installation CD's for because of this or that reason....some legit reasons like they lost the cd and some not legit like they never owned a legal copy of that application to begin with.
@jgm,

Yes.

Most computer users don't have the experience or knowledge to replace all the old drivers. Win 7 doesn't use the old drivers very well. Unless you have a lot of fairly new devices, you won't find Windows 7 drivers for them.

For such people, when the old XP won't do any more, as it slowly clogs up with malware, Linux will be the only viable solution. Linux still supports hardware from 10 years ago.

Of course, those who got an install disk, and kept it, can format the Hard Drive and install XP new. But, most of these users don't know how to do that. The rest have already moved on. To Windows 7, Linux, or both.

Still, this is a mere snapshot in time. For the future, Windows will be obsolete someday. Unix seems to have staying power. 40 years and counting. Since Linux is a near clean room re-implementation of Unix, it is a power in the world today.

That's why Linux in large servers is overwhelming Microsoft. In the really big number crunchers, Linux is well above the 95% share that Windows once enjoyed on desktops. On the desktops, Unix based systems have eroded over 15% of Microsoft's one time desktop share.

In mobile devices, Unix based systems already dominate smartphones and tablets. While Microsoft claims that it's new mobile platforms will soon conquer the entire market, Microsoft has been saying that for the last 15 years, and has yet to be more than a minor footnote.

Well, if not this time, then maybe next time, or the time after that.

But, we've all heard this before. It's getting boring.
My point is, if you want to upgrade to Win7, you'll need more horsepower than most XP machines have. I've seen Win7 run on a single core CPU with 1 Gb RAM PC... it ain't pretty. I've seen Win7 run on a dual core CPU with 2 Gb RAM PC, and it's "usable" but not nearly as fast as WinXP on that same machine. That is why so many need to buy a new PC to get Win7. Plus, upgrading from WinXP you MUST back up your data and then wipe the partitions to install Win7 - there is no in-line upgrade path. And MSRP for Win7 is $199.99 for Home Premium; you have to buy the full version if you currently have WinXP because there is no in-line upgrade path. That's an awful lot to spend on software that may or may not work well with your WinXP hardware.
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RE: My Point is....
bobiroc 5th Aug
@benched42

"My point is, if you want to upgrade to Win7, you'll need more horsepower than most XP machines have."

My experience has been different and I have Windows 7 running fine on many 5+ year old machines and some of them are single core Pentium 4's. Had the memory upgraded to 2Gb and use the 32bit version but it seems to actually run better than XP did on that same computer. Win7 runs fine on a moderately powered dual core system with 2Gb ram so I will give you the ram part but that is about it. I do recommend if you have an older system with 2GB - 3Gb ram that you use the 32bit version but other than that I can honestly say that Win7 performs better in most cases than Windows XP did. The only other exception that I can think of is if it has underpowered video. This affects mainly machines with the older Intel Integrated Chipsets but if you have NVidia or ATI on board it seems to be fine as those have more power.
@benched42

Actually most the Computers that run smooth with XP work decent in 7. 7 can run and work well with only 768 MB and as low as 512. lower then 512 yes it becomes worthless. 512 to 768 feels like XP stability but more capable of recovery. So what some will have to buy a 60 Video Card
@William Farrell You're both wrong. You can get a new PC and still install XP on it (as opposed to Win98, for instance - no chipset drivers), and most people don't need to buy a whole new PC to use Windows 7. That's like buying a Honda to get new floor mats.
@William Farrell
The article is correct. You Microsoft shills will do or say anything to avoid the truth or the facts.

With the costs of replacing systems, software applications (both customized and out of box), and the costs of labor to do the upgrades, XP, as long as it works, will be there until the hardware fails and the systems are replaced through attrition.

Those are the facts and no amount of spinning will change them.

-10
@linux for me Right, which means XP was and still is a more desirable OS than Linux. Those are also the facts.
@gombowa

You wish.

XP is mostly used on older machines. There is a slow movement to Linux. It's currently running on a little less than 10% of the desktops out there. That's just a little less than Apple's share. There are more people trying out Linux. Kicking the tires, and experimenting with it.

Most keep using both OS versions. Windows for MS Office, and games. Linux for creation, and safe web access. But the numbers keep shifting. There are more every year who just wipe the Windows Partition. It's a slow shift. You probably don't notice it happening. But, Microsoft does notice it.

I think that Linux will in about 15 more years top out at around 25% of the desktop market. In tablets and phones, maybe higher, but not more than around 50%. Large machines are already either Linux or Solaris. For the real power systems, it is already Linux.

If you work for a large corporation, and are more than a help desk guy, you already know this.
@William Farrell
Despite some not-so-educated guesses, the desktop machine isn't dying anytime soon....much less the laptop.

There are things that I need to do that require too much hardware to fit in a laptop (much less a tablet) worth toting around everywhere unless you just like carrying around the equivalent of a cast iron skillet that feels like it just came off the stove top.
@VRSpock

Indeed. Here we go again. PC's (and that includes Apple's products) to do PC things, utilising an individuals choice of OS. Laptops to do laptop things, utilising individuals choice of OS. Tablets when tablets are needed, utilising individuals choice of OS (usually also dictating choice of hardware). Horses for courses, and all the arguments are pointless.
It's called IE6. People MUST run IE6. Why?

I hate the backlog of crap that is stored on IE5 and 6.
Altho the memory on my XP is only 525MB the C and D drive are quite large.
Problem being C (9GB) drive is hogged up with such a huge MSOS data the C drive runs at 1/3 of capacity.
Yes I wish to upgrade, when my book is published and I make some money okay! happy
Til then I'm broke and my XP is super fast.

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