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Microsoftie: KIN failure was an embarrassment across campus

By | July 7, 2010, 2:53pm PDT

Summary: An unnamed Microsoft employee tells a tech blog that the death of the KIN was an embarrassment across campus

It’s almost like being a fly on the wall when the execs at Microsoft decided to kill the mobile phone failure known as the KIN. The Business Insider blog today posted a comment from an unnamed Microsoftie who said that embarrassment over the KIN’s demise was felt among the rank and file across campus.

Granted, it’s just one Microsoftie emailing a tech blog with his/her own assessment of the mood on campus when the news broke - but I can’t imagine that anyone on the KIN team was feeling all that upbeat when the news of killing the KIN hit the blogosphere.

Apparently, the team wasn’t all that happy with the launch of the product either, commenting that “no one thought it was great product” to launch to begin with.

The blog post includes some quotes - again, all anonymous - from what appears to be employees sounding off on an independent message board of sorts. As you can imagine, none of it is too flattering for Microsoft. In fairness, the blog post solicited comments from company representatives or employees who were proud of what the company accomplished, despite how it turned out.

So far, it doesn’t appear that there have been any.

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RE: Microsoftie: KIN failure was an embarrassment across campus
Ritz009 16th Dec
I agree with NonZealot

me to have a MacBook. OS x is extreme worse
View in thread
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?no one thought it was great product?
Cylon Centurion 7th Jul 2010
Did they think anyone would? What is going through Ballmer's head, and why isn't he part of the upcoming layoffs?
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Ballmer
Economister 7th Jul 2010
@NStalnecker

Yup, that is the question. Ballmer is slowly taking MS down the tube IMHO, but I am not a shareholder, so I don't really care.
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RE: Microsoftie: KIN failure was an embarrassment across campus
soskert 10th Oct
Most of MS new ventures have really solidified my shared opinion of Ballmer. MS id going down hill fast.
sam - seo tips
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And, Embarrassing? Heck this makes them look like the Village idiots.
DonnieBoy 7th Jul 2010
How stupid can you get???
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Hang on!
SpikeyMike 8th Jul 2010
@DonnieBoy - "How stupid can you get??? "

Hold on! The best is yet to come! Wait until WinMo 7 hits and competes with Droid!
  • Flagged
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RE: Microsoftie: KIN failure was an embarrassment across campus
Jkirk3279 8th Jul 2010
@NStalnecker

Hey now ! Don't diss Ballmer.

As an Apple Stockholder, I confidently proclaim Mr. Ballmer as the BEST CEO Microsoft has ever had.

Oh, wait. Forget what I said about being an Apple Stockholder.
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Microsoft has been successful in several areas
pkatz Updated - 7th Jul 2010
While Kin is a high-profile failure, Microsoft has had more than its share of successes over the last couple years.

Windows 7: Very Successful Launch

xbox 360 and xbox Live: An established brand that is now profitable

Microsoft Office and SharePoint 2010: So far very well received

SQL Server 2008: Very solid product that is gaining market share

Netbooks: Microsoft was pulled kicking and screaming into them, but it doesn't change the fact they are now the successful software leader in the category

Bing: A minority player, but one with a loyal following

Yes, Kin sucked. But don't count out MS in mobile. Once they put their A-team on it, expect something good.
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More of the same: windows and office
Richard Flude 7th Jul 2010
Please:
-Xbox is barely profitable, and still owes a fortune.
-Bing is nowhere
-Netbook fad has passed and only undercut windows revenue

SQL Server is no better than the day it was spun off from Sybase. It's one of 3-4 commercial RDMS in the space.

Sharepoint is the only light in an otherwise dim room. Even this is a faint flicker from a small candle.

"But don't count out MS in mobile. Once they put their A-team on it, expect something good."

Where has their A team been all these years?

It's surprising MS campus is upset, it hasn't seemed to affected the delusion of the MCSE talkbackers;-)
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RE: Microsoftie: KIN failure was an embarrassment across campus
ScotlynHatt 8th Jul 2010
@Richard Flude I am not sure "owes a fortune" is accurate. 360 has turned a profit since 2008. Monies spent on 'R&D' are written off to some degree, so I am not convinced that they have a hole to dig out of. I think Zune is a bigger issue than 360 in the E&D division.
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The A-team?
symbolset 7th Jul 2010
@pkatz expect something good.

When are they going to put the A-team on it? According to the comments in the linked article the Windows Phone 7 team is where they sent the folks responsible for Vista and now the've sent the Kin team in after them. Setting aside the mythical man-month adage that adding developers to a late project just makes it later, putting that much failure in one place could cause a rift in space/time and destroy us all.

XBox - yeah, it's not bleeding cash any more. Does it have any hope of winning back the billions sunk into it before it broke even? No. Is this what 'softies call a win?

Bing and Live: reportedly a $3B/Yr money pit. Leasing 6% of the search engine market for $3B/yr. Good job. Where can I get a job burning money like that?

Netbooks: strongarmed the OEMs into licensing Windows with every unit shipped. Nicely done. Try to repeat that on ARM-based tablets. We'll wait here.
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Excellent points
NonZealot 7th Jul 2010
@pkatz
Windows 7 is what OS X might become 5 years from now.

XBox Live: $1,000,000,000+/year.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/07/bloomberg-estimates-xbox-live-to-be-worth-1-billion/
Those are numbers that the Apple fanboys cheer and scream and high five and clap when Jobs announces it for App Store. Watch them try to downplay it because this is MS. Cue the double standards...

MS's enterprise software is still raking in billions of $$$/year.

Netbooks may have lowered profits per sale but when sales are that high, who cares? happy

Bing and WP7 are big maybes though. It will be hard to dethrone Google in search and in mobile, MS has taken a major step backwards from WM. Instead of focusing on what makes MS a truly great company, they decided for the first time ever to copy Apple. Unfortunately, they decided to copy Apple from 3 years ago. Too bad.
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RE: Microsoftie: KIN failure was an embarrassment across campus
Pete "athynz" Athens 8th Jul 2010
@NonZealot I agree with most of what you are saying with one exception: Instead of focusing on what makes MS a truly great company, they decided for the first time ever to copy Apple. This is not true at all - Windows came from the original Mac OS Lisa... So WP is not the first time MS has copied from Apple, this time they won't be as successful with their copy.
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RE: Microsoftie: KIN failure was an embarrassment across campus
SmokinTechie 8th Jul 2010
@athynz Newsflash: Both Apple's OS and Windows evolved out of the Xerox PARC. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
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RE: Microsoftie: KIN failure was an embarrassment across campus
use_what_works_4_U 8th Jul 2010
@Smokin'Techie
The key difference being that Apple was shown the GUI work going on at PARC by Xerox and they licensed it, building a new OS. Microsoft looked at Apple's work and then essentially tried to copy it by putting a GUI on top of MS-DOS.

It's a fine distinction, but an important one. Xeorx abandoned the GUI they were developing at the Palo Alto research Center (PARC is a place not a product) and the execs sold the work to Apple. Apple then took the next logical steps. It wasn't imitation, it wasn't invention (not by Apple anyway) it was innovation - taking what exists and making it more useful/successful. You could argue that Microsoft innovated further from there. Personally I don't think their OS really became truly innovative (as opposed to imitative) until last year, but that's strictly my opinion.

Nearly all human endeavor builds on what came before it. We are iterative, innovative, and sometimes imitative creatures. Nothing new on that score.
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More joking around from Mr. NonZealot (Not!!)...
pbromelkamp 8th Jul 2010
@NonZealot

You always crack me up with your delusions.

I've been running, configuring and testing Windows 7 since the Beta was released. As improved as it is over Vista, there's no way it even begins to match the simplicity, reliability and elegance of Mac OS X... from five years ago!
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RE: Microsoftie: KIN failure was an embarrassment across campus
nix_hed 9th Jul 2010
@NonZealot
Thanks for the laugh, I needed it. The only place where OS X isn't caught up to Windows is gaming, but at least for me, Steam games run better under Snow Kitty than they do under 7 on my machine at home.
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@nixhed
NonZealot 9th Jul 2010
I have a MacBook so I have first hand experience with OS X. It truly is the worst OS to ever have been unleashed on mankind.
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RE: Microsoftie: KIN failure was an embarrassment across campus
PollyProteus 8th Jul 2010
@pkatz - While the KIN itself wasn't beloved by the tech world, the IDEA of what the KIN was trying to accomplish, complete with the Studio (which has actually gotten kudos from the tech world), was laudible and brought some great ideas to the mobile world.

The KIN was never intended to be an iPhone replacement (which is what most of the tech rags compared it to), and yet that's how it was always reviewed.

Sure it has some shortcomings, none of which couldn't have been rectified, but we will never know for sure because someone decided to kill it before it could really get rolling.

That said, from what I've read, some of the folks from KIN will move over to Windows 7 phone as KIN released a product and has some great domain knowledge, both in what worked and what didn't work, and can provide that useful experience to make Windows 7 phone great.

Now they just have to execute to make it a reality.
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Talk about being delusional
wackoae 8th Jul 2010
If you actually believe what you are saying ..... you need to contact some professional help.
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Windows Phone 7 will fail just like Kin
gjafg 7th Jul 2010
Microsoft's mobile failures run deep.

It's not just the failing of a little phone. It's a failure of the core management of Microsoft, it's a failure of the strategy, execution, design and marketing departments throughout Microsoft.

Kin was a public display of the incredible ineptitude of Microsoft management. The industry looks on in horror. Developers and OEMs look on in horror.

Whatever little credibility Microsoft had in the mobile business has now evaporated. Microsoft has finished in mobile. That's it. Game over.
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Memories of failures only last until the next good model - and vice versa!
Patanjali Updated - 7th Jul 2010
@Market Analyst
The thing about mobile is that eveybody seems to have short memories - the landscape has changed dramatically by the time the next phone contract comes around.

Android took several iterations before it got to where it got today. If failure was so detremental to future investment in mobile, it would have died early on.

I think that an implementation in far more important than the OS per se, with make and model name being the most significant identifiers of phones for the majority of consumers.

Mobiles are boxes, and it is more important for most that the box works than what OS it uses. A lemon is a bad model, not a bad OS, and the mobile market is still fickle enough that a good functiona phone (of whatever OS persuasion) will be successful.

And the internet is fast to identify the failings and benefits of particular models, because users are readily willing to share both.

In all this, MS has still got a very good chance, but it needs to get a right model, coupled with a sustainable store model. The failures will soon be forgotten if that is done.

By the way, an app store does not have to make money for the developers, it just has to be there. Almost all iPhone apps store developers will not make back their investment of time or money, but it does make money for Apple because they make a cut on all sold, regardless of whether the developers broke even.
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I disagree
Cylon Centurion 8th Jul 2010
@Market Analyst

WP7 will do just fine.
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Based on, what?
ahh so 8th Jul 2010
Predictions? Crystal balls?
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RE: Microsoftie: KIN failure was an embarrassment across campus
Rama.NET 8th Jul 2010
@Market Analyst
I am a developer and I don't look on in horror.
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RE: Microsoftie: KIN failure was an embarrassment across campus
ItsTheBottomLine 8th Jul 2010
@Market Analyst: Mobile users/general public have short memories. Geeks and Techies seem to have long term memories (myself included).
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RE: Microsoftie: KIN failure was an embarrassment across campus
use_what_works_4_U 8th Jul 2010
@ItsTheBottomLine
Very well said. Often we forget that we are not the market in general. WP7 can do one of three things:
1) Fall flat on its face and fail - unlikely IMHO
2) Be so ground breaking that it unseats Apple, RIM, and the various Android phones to rule the mobile landscape - unlikely IMHO
3) Be a competent competitor that sells reasonably well, carves out a market space for itself and helps to push further innovations on all fronts from all manufacturers. This is my hope. I am unlikely to buy a WP7 phone. In fact I am seriously thinking of going to a Plain-Jane "feature phone" and a tablet the next time around. Anytime competition spurs new thoughts and innovation, though, it's a good thing. The iPhone did it. Android has followed up and done it. WP7 may well do it also, and I wish it success because even if I don't own a WP7 phone, success by that product will spur the makers of whatever product I do own next to keep innovating and that is when we all win.
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KIN failure was inevitable
jpdemers@... 8th Jul 2010
When you take 3 years to copy someone else's system, you end up 3 years behind the times. The product cycle in mobile devices is too short for MS to ever succeed in me-too mode. The KIN is a bust for the same reason the Windows tablet (what was it called again?) was a bust. It's innovate or die, and MS is not innovating much these days. Rumors of their death are greatly exaggerated, however, as they should be able to milk the Windows and Office franchises for many years to come.
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Why do people measure success in hours?
rarsa 8th Jul 2010
When reading comments like the original post and replies, I wonder if people think that one day, or a year make something a success or a failure.

I don't like Microsoft practices, but arguing that they are a failure is ridiculous.

Any successful person/entity, knows that to be successful you need to fail, the sooner you fail and the sooner you realize you failed, the better.

Have you heard about the two kind of people?
- the ones that fail and
- the ones that don't even try.

Real failure would be if they don't learn from this experience.
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RE: Microsoftie: KIN failure was an embarrassment across campus
jerry@... 8th Jul 2010
I am just a Windows Mobile user on a Moto Q and I don't blame MS for its problems rather I blame Moto & AT&T for their fiddling with the software making it almost useless unless you use their APs. I would buy a new mobile phone if it was more like purchasing a copy of Windows 7 and installing it on my PC the way I want to use it and the APs I want to use.

One of the posters mentioned next time he's considering buying a tablet and jut a plain jane mobile phone. I'm leaning in that direction but then again I want a tablet that lets me choose the "look" (preferable MS) and APs I use, not all the rest of the crap.
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Then why WinMo sucks in EVERY model and carrier
wackoae 8th Jul 2010
Although there is a lot to blame, the fact is that WinMo SUCKS no matter the brand/model/carrier.

When you ask the people who claim to love it, almost always you find that they barely use any features. The few that do, claim they like while down playing all the issues they are having.
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RE: Microsoftie: KIN failure was an embarrassment across campus
Traxxion 9th Jul 2010
@wackoae I use one - multitasking....
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Apple Delusions
Traxxion 9th Jul 2010
@pbromelkamp:
And Apple fanbois crack me up with there delusions. Where is Apple's corporate presence? DB? AD? CMS? Web? Aside from a few desktops owned by fanboy marketers, gfx designers and CEO's, Apple has NO technology in this space. Comparing Windows to OSX is a joke - Windows has FAR more capabilities, but as long as Apple users can single mouse click and watch their windows 'glide' around, they are happy.
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Apple Licensed Xerox GUI
amywohl 9th Jul 2010
Where did you get that idea? In fact, Steve Jobs saw the Xerox GUI on a tour of PARC and built an Apple version. Years later Xerox tried (unsuccessfully) to sue them.
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RE: Microsoftie: KIN failure was an embarrassment across campus
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RE: Microsoftie: KIN failure was an embarrassment across campus
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RE: Microsoftie: KIN failure was an embarrassment across campus
Ritz009 16th Dec
I agree with NonZealot

me to have a MacBook. OS x is extreme worse

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