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Larry Dignan, Andrew Nusca and Rachel King
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Microsoft's Windows 8: Can a mashup of various features work well?

By | April 3, 2011, 5:40pm PDT

Summary: There’s good news on the Windows 8 front: Microsoft may be learning from its more nimble units such as Xbox and Windows Phone 7. The bad news: It’s unclear whether this Windows 8 mashup can result in a coherent user interface.

There’s good news on the Windows 8 front: Microsoft may be learning from its more nimble units such as Xbox and Windows Phone 7. The bad news: It’s unclear whether this Windows 8 mashup can result in a coherent user interface.

The weekend was abuzz with Windows 8 possibilities. For starters, Windows 8 may incorporate an Office ribbon, a handy little navigation tool. That tidbit comes as a Windows 8 start screen looked downright Windows Phone 7 and Xbox-ish. Toss in some Windows Live hooks and it looks like Microsoft is borrowing a lot of existing features to craft something new.

Of course, these Windows 8 builds are early. In fact, you shouldn’t take them all that seriously. Who knows what will wind up in the real Windows 8. Microsoft isn’t talking anyway.

Todd Bishop at GeekWire put it best. Windows 8 has a hint of Office, a dash of Xbox and an ounce of Windows Phone. That’s what happens when you have a massive company trying to thread every phone, laptop, desktop and tablet needle with one operating system.

Given that these features come from units that largely run independent of each other you have to wonder how this user interface will come together. Perhaps, Windows 8 will offer personalization. Pick you tiles. Pick your ribbon. Pick your Kinect connection.

Where’s the glue?

If you zoom out a bit the Windows 8 talk comes along as Fortune ran a story about how Microsoft has lost its way. Former employees say Microsoft is too insular and can’t innovate. The conclusion: CEO Steve Ballmer has to go. And while we’re at it let’s break up Microsoft to be more nimble. Sound familiar? That same storyline runs almost every quarter.

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Topics

Microsoft Corp., Mashup, Windows 8, Microsoft Windows, Operating Systems, Software, Larry Dignan

Larry Dignan is Editor in Chief of ZDNet and SmartPlanet as well as Editorial Director of ZDNet's sister site TechRepublic.

Disclosure

Larry Dignan

Larry Dignan has nothing to disclose. He doesn’t hold investments in the technology companies he covers.

Biography

Larry Dignan

Larry Dignan is Editor in Chief of ZDNet and SmartPlanet as well as Editorial Director of ZDNet's sister site TechRepublic. He was most recently Executive Editor of News and Blogs at ZDNet. Prior to that he was executive news editor at eWeek and news editor at Baseline. He also served as the East Coast news editor and finance editor at CNET News.com. Larry has covered the technology and financial services industry since 1995, publishing articles in WallStreetWeek.com, Inter@ctive Week, The New York Times, and Financial Planning magazine. He's a graduate of the Columbia School of Journalism and the University of Delaware.

For daily updates, follow Larry on Twitter.

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RE: Microsoft's Windows 8: Can a mashup of various features work well?
kidneyy 9th Oct
@CobraA1 This is really interesting, You are a very skilled blogger. I've joined your feed and look forward to seeking more of your wonderful post. Also, I've shared your web site in my social networks! exchange student
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RE: Microsoft's Windows 8: Can a mashup of various features work well?
jaime.gibertoni@... 3rd Apr 2011
so these people is either confusing everybody or totally out of the box (or nuts?)... thanks for this article!
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RE: Microsoft's Windows 8: Can a mashup of various features work well?
g@... Updated - 3rd Apr 2011
@jaime.gibertoni@...
Yes these are just alpha builds. MS is just tinkering with the UI (as anyone would do)
Personally I think Ribbon in the explorer in a good idea. It exposes a lot a functionality and it's more intuitive.It's not too different from the menubar as it autohides.
I don't see why the different UI paradigms cannot coexsist .mouse and keyboard for desktop , touch for phone/tablet . motion for TV .
Where did Larry get the idea MS is going to mashup all these experiences into one
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Internal battles, my friend, internal battles...
cosuna 5th Apr 2011
If you follow the common thread, you see an internal battle between two groups.

First the most successful one: Office which has switched their whole experience to a touch centric Ribbon, although since there's no Word or Excel for iPad or Honeycomb, we can't be sure that in practice, this interface works in touch-only environments. It looks like it could, but again, we don't know for sure.

Second group: Zune / Surface / Courier / Windows Phone team. So far, they have created several interesting touch centric, but only one mass market product (WP7) which hasn't been that successful on the market place (at least compared to Office).

Neither one is game changing, much like iPad team was for Apple (lets remember that was the original product developed and the iPhone was just a mere second thought).

Ironically the (full) Windows side was supposed to lead the way, but apparently it carried too much legacy burden to move fast enough. So now it's been pressured by both groups to follow suit. Which road should it take? I think the final solution was to take both roads, just in different segments. SoC and ARM slates will take the WP7 route and Intel/AMD PCs will take the Office route, what they call the "TwinUI".

Let see if this is the actual route and what the final outcome will be.
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RE: Microsoft's Windows 8: Can a mashup of various features work well?
shellcodes_coder 3rd Apr 2011
How about they fix Windows and get rid of DLL hell, viruses, registry garbage? will that ever happen? No, it won't. How about a more secure kernel? They just keep refining and copying things w/o proper implementation. Just look at flip3d how useless it is, have heard they will finally make a good implementation of Expose in Windows 8 that means it will take them 11 years to make a proper implementation of Expose. Dock is far more better than ugly taskbar. Windows 7 caught up with Panther and which version of Windows will catch up with Snow Leopard? forget Lion, it will be light years ahead
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RE: Microsoft's Windows 8: Can a mashup of various features work well?
Michael Alan Goff 3rd Apr 2011
*yawn*

It's kinda obvious you've never actually used Windows before.
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RE: Microsoft's Windows 8: Can a mashup of various features work well?
Michael Alan Goff 4th Apr 2011
-DLL Hell is gone
-Taskbar is better than the Dock (which is why Ubuntu is using it too)
-The kernel isn't insecure
-Notice how OSX is getting more Malware now that it's getting marketshare?
-Registry is not garbage.
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Suggested feature for Lion...
dazzlingd Updated - 3rd Apr 2011
@shellcodes_coder
Dude, I hope they install a grammar checker in Lion for you.
"Dock is far more better than ugly taskbar."

You should try formatting your text in Microsoft Word. I hear that there is even a version for Mac.
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RE: Microsoft's Windows 8: Can a mashup of various features work well?
overoll 3rd Oct
Good post but I was wanting to know if you could write a litte more on this subject? I'd be very thankful if you could elaborate a little bit more. Cheers! hot girls
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RE: Microsoft's Windows 8: Can a mashup of various features work well?
CobraA1 3rd Apr 2011
@shellcodes_coder

"and get rid of DLL hell"

Maybe time to brush up on your .NET, eh? The DLL issues are slowly fading away.

"viruses"

There's malware for every major platform. 'tis a problem everybody has to deal with.

"registry garbage"

Actually, the registry itself is garbage. I say it's time to get rid of it altogether.

"How about a more secure kernel?"

The kernel itself is rock solid, hence why malware these days tends to be the kind that takes advantage of poorly coded applications. I haven't heard of anything that gets to the kernel level in Windows 7.

"have heard they will finally make a good implementation of Expose in Windows 8 that means it will take them 11 years to make a proper implementation of Expose."

You can actually do something similar in Windows 7 right now. It's not as cool looking, but you can click on a window that is showing up while switching tasks with alt+tab, which will switch to it instantly.

"forget Lion, it will be light years ahead"

In coolness, perhaps, but dunno about in market share.
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RE: Microsoft's Windows 8: Can a mashup of various features work well?
shellcodes_coder 4th Apr 2011
@CobraA1
.NET? haha, I do windows programming in C++ (RAW code execution) that's a language for kids and BTW am a game developer and in our work we have to use all windows specific apps like 3ds max and visual c++. BTW when Microsoft fixes all those faults let me know, guess what that will never happen. Yes Windows will be ahead in market share but if you have use OS X and Linux, can you tell me which is the worst operating system out of three? it's def Windows
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RE: Microsoft's Windows 8: Can a mashup of various features work well?
CobraA1 4th Apr 2011
"I do windows programming in C++ (RAW code execution)"

Actually, if you want raw code execution, you should try assembler.

"that's a language for kids"

-1 for thinking that .NET is a language. You can actually use C++ to develop .NET applications.

"BTW am a game developer"

Your knowledge of languages is pretty terrible for a game dev.

"BTW when Microsoft fixes all those faults let me know, guess what that will never happen.'

When you find and fix all of the faults in your games, let me know happy.

"but if you have use OS X and Linux, can you tell me which is the worst operating system out of three?"

Your opinion is noted, and rejected. There isn't really any objective way to measure the "goodness" of an operating system.
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RE: Microsoft's Windows 8: Can a mashup of various features work well?
mgaul 4th Apr 2011
@CobraA1
At least someone someone is being objective and logical.
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RE: Microsoft's Windows 8: Can a mashup of various features work well?
xplorer1959 4th Apr 2011
@CobraA1
Your post and others were "flagged" because those posts are actually informed, sensible and (God save us all from the ios and linux fanatics) pointed out some things about ms products that are good (of which there are far more good products than bad). Some people- donnieboy, et al- merely post comments out of hatred of all thing ms or simply out of ignorance. Viruses because windows is inherently insecure, for example. The fact is that windows has been proven in test after test after test... ad infinitum- to be the most secure OS in existence and mac os the least secure, yet ms-haters really don't care about actual facts when it's so much easier to just rant about things they don't understand! But I do give Apple credit for one thing at least- they make some of the coolest toys around! But, toys are for children, not adults. And my post will surely be flagged by one of the no-nothings posting here.
c'est la vie!
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RE: Microsoft's Windows 8: Can a mashup of various features work well?
LTV10 4th Apr 2011
It seems both sides are flagging one another.

~

@xplorer1959
Duly noted and flagged.
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RE: Microsoft's Windows 8: Can a mashup of various features work well?
kidneyy 9th Oct
@CobraA1 This is really interesting, You are a very skilled blogger. I've joined your feed and look forward to seeking more of your wonderful post. Also, I've shared your web site in my social networks! exchange student
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RE: Microsoft's Windows 8: Can a mashup of various features work well?
Cylon Centurion Updated - 3rd Apr 2011
@shellcodes_coder

DLL Hell? Really? Are you still using Windows 98?

Viruses? You might want to look into properly using a computer and browsing the web responsibly. Malware has become a user issue more than anything now since Vista's UAC, and x64's kernel level protection. PEBKAC is not a Microsoft issue. It's yours.
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RE: Microsoft's Windows 8: Can a mashup of various features work well?
SlithyTove 4th Apr 2011
@modicr

From your link:

Things are better with Windows 7

It went from "DLL-HELL" to "in some unusual cases it may still be possible to have issues with versioning." Don't think that qualifies as "back".

Myself, I haven't seen DLL Hell since the dark, dreary VB6 days.
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RE: Microsoft's Windows 8: Can a mashup of various features work well?
Cylon Centurion 4th Apr 2011
I don't buy it. The article you linked to doesn't mention any other OS but XP, so what I'm supposed to take from it is beyond me. DLL Hell went away after 9x went away.

Maybe by some off chance, the author had a case, but I just haven't seen any cases myself in years. Sorry.
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RE: Microsoft's Windows 8: Can a mashup of various features work well?
shellcodes_coder 4th Apr 2011
@shellcodes_coder
To all the fan boys: yes I do use Windows because am a developer and the only reason I still use Windows is because of the programs that we use in our work which are specific to Windows and that really sucks. Neither OS X nor Linux users are affected by viruses and worms, only Windows is. If you don't know the difference between virus, worm, trojan then it's time to go and learn. Microsoft don't listen to their customers, see what happened with Vista and how they screwed customers. They had to fix it and come up with something new so that they can compete with OS X. Market share, that's funny, but Windows is worst OS, even Linux is far more better than Windows
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RE: Microsoft's Windows 8: Can a mashup of various features work well?
dvm Updated - 4th Apr 2011
@shellcodes_coder,
"Neither OS X nor Linux users are affected by viruses and worms, only Windows is."
Although there is less chance of virus and worms on Mac OS X, maybe it is not the most secure OS, at least that's the Charlie Miller POV. Here is one of his comments,
"Because Snow Leopard lacks fully-functional ASLR, Macs are still easier to compromise than Windows Vista systems, Miller said. Snow Leopards more secure than Leopard, but its not as secure as Vista or Windows 7, he said. When Apple has both [in place], thats when Ill stop complaining about Apples security.
Based on the results of the Pwn20wn events, maybe he is right. Hope to see Mac OS X Lion steup with their security features. BTW, if Apple is not vulnerable to viruses, why they have this advise on their Mac OS website?
"Security Advice
The Mac is designed with built-in technologies that provide protection against malicious software and security threats right out of the box. However, since no system can be 100 percent immune from every threat, antivirus software may offer additional protection."

"see what happened with Vista and how they screwed customers"
From what I saw, lot of people didn't liked Vista because it was slow, something that was fixed with SP1. Interesting that a Arstechnica compared Mac OS X with Vista on Photoshop, and Vista was faster. So, how do you call an OS that was slower than Vista, in your opinion, the worst OS?
http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2008/10/adobe-cs4-review.ars/5

And there were the Pwn20wn events from 2008, where Mac OS X was hacked in less than two minutes, while Vista stood a lot longer.
http://dvlabs.tippingpoint.com/blog/2008/03/27/day-two-of-cansecwest-pwn-to-own---we-have-our-first-official-winner-with-picture

My point is that there is no completely secure OS, and all are trying to the their best security and peformance wise.
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RE: Microsoft's Windows 8: Can a mashup of various features work well?
anothersmartguy 4th Apr 2011
@shellcodes_coder You are blinded by fanboyism. I can run Windows without any antivirus software except for the default built-in protection and not get infected. I'm sorry but in 2011 if you get infected, regardless of the OS you're using, it's simply your fault for being unforgivably ingenuous.
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RE: Microsoft's Windows 8: Can a mashup of various features work well?
Cylon Centurion Updated - 4th Apr 2011
@shellcodes_coder

Neither OS X nor Linux users are affected by viruses and worms, only Windows is.

That's bull and you know it. Malware today is most a user issue. PEBKAC. It can't just sneak onto users systems like in the dark days of Windows XP. It just can't, unless you have some click happy user running wild and care-free, it just doesn't happen. Users running an x64 copy of Vista or 7 are protected by both UAC and kernel level protection. Not to mention the safety features of IE8/9 that XP wouldn't allow.

Also, the Mac platform does have malware for it, and so does Linux, but considering the nature of Linux users (Desktop users anyway - Android is another issue, one which invalidates your statement above), is unaffected by this crap.
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RE: Microsoft's Windows 8: Can a mashup of various features work well?
CobraA1 4th Apr 2011
@shellcodes_coder

"If you don't know the difference between virus, worm, trojan then it's time to go and learn."

Not that it matters, considering any of them can be a major security and integrity risk. It's also the case that malware authors have been creating malware that can use several methods to attack systems and spread themselves to new systems. The distinction between the different types of malware isn't as useful as it used to be.

"Microsoft don't listen to their customers . . . They had to fix it . . ."

Umm, fixing it is listening to their customers. Would you rather they not fix it?
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RE: Microsoft's Windows 8: Can a mashup of various features work well?
shellcodes_coder 4th Apr 2011
@dvm
Dude, ASLR and DEP? LOL, there are ways to by pass ASLR and DEP even Snow Leopard has those features implemented though a proper implementation of ASLR is lacking. And don't you guys get tired of restarting your computer almost every week after installing updates? On OS X and Linux I can go on for ages w/o restarting my computer grin
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RE: Microsoft's Windows 8: Can a mashup of various features work well?
dvm 4th Apr 2011
@shellcodes_coder,
"LOL, there are ways to by pass ASLR and DEP even Snow Leopard has those features implemented though a proper implementation of ASLR is lacking."
I already knew of people bypassing DEL/ASLR. What is interesting is you ask for MS to fix up Windows security while Mac lacks a right implementation of DEP/ASLR, something MS has since Vista.

"And don't you guys get tired of restarting your computer almost every week after installing updates?"
MS release updates once every month, unless there is an emergency issue. So I don't get tired of updating once a month.

"On OS X and Linux I can go on for ages w/o restarting my computer"
Maybe I'm missing somehting, but my customers Mac's ask for a restart after applying updates. Are you sure that you don't need to restart?
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Longhorn was always "next year" too. For quite a few years.
DonnieBoy 4th Apr 2011
Then, it turned into Vista and they released it a couple of years later.
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RE: Microsoft's Windows 8: Can a mashup of various features work well?
spicycheeks 4th Apr 2011
@shellcodes_coder
I think you were in VB era. Microsoft does have solved the dll hell problem through .NET framework. And for your information, as you seems to be from past. .NET framework 4.0 is available.

And light years represents distance. Not time frame. Please do some research before posting.
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RE: Microsoft's Windows 8: Can a mashup of various features work well?
shellcodes_coder 4th Apr 2011
@spicycheeks
Well, most of the applications are written in C++ even Windows itself, not .NET
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so that means yhat Windows now s*ucks less
theo_durcan 4th Apr 2011
@spicycheeks
than a few years back
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RE: Microsoft's Windows 8: Can a mashup of various features work well?
rhonin 4th Apr 2011
@shellcodes_coder
Please dig a little deeper before you rant to such a degree.
Your overall knowledge of Win and OSX functionality and coding appears to be a wee bit light.

wink
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RE: Microsoft's Windows 8: Can a mashup of various features work well?
windozefreak 4th Apr 2011
@shellcodes_coder
They would, except fanbois of competing systems would not have much to bleat about. Thank you for playing!
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RE: Microsoft's Windows 8: Can a mashup of various features work well?
shellcodes_coder 4th Apr 2011
@All Windows fan boys:don't you guys get tired of restarting your computer almost every week after installing updates? LOL On OS X and Linux I can go on for ages w/o restarting my computer (Unix) grin
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RE: Microsoft's Windows 8: Can a mashup of various features work well?
Cylon Centurion 4th Apr 2011
@shellcodes_coder

LOL! Every WEEK? What planet are you living on? Updates are applied monthly. Would you rahter they be applied bi-monthly or even yearly? How about not eve applied at all?
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RE: Microsoft's Windows 8: Can a mashup of various features work well?
Gis Bun 6th Apr 2011
@DonnieBoy : So why do Linux zealots like you love to check up on *BETTER* operating systems? I guess to see what you are missing. And before you start, Linux still only has 1.2% market share and that combines probably over a hundred different distros. If it was so good, I think you would see it doing better than 1.2%. Probably still more Windows 9x/ME systems than Linux!
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So you're looking at random leaks
Michael Alan Goff 3rd Apr 2011
and wondering why they don't all make sense together? Really?
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I think Windows 8 will be great
P. Douglas Updated - 3rd Apr 2011
If you zoom out a bit the Windows 8 talk comes along as Fortune ran a story about how Microsoft has lost its way. Former employees say Microsoft is too insular and can?t innovate. The conclusion: CEO Steve Ballmer has to go. And while we?re at it let?s break up Microsoft to be more nimble. Sound familiar? That same storyline runs almost every quarter.

MS seems to be on the right track. I believe Ballmer made a number of important course corrections - in particular in the area around the primacy of UX when developing user facing software. If Windows 8 turns out to have an improved GUI, as well and new touch UI, it will breathe new life into the company and its image.

The company also has to establish a network of media outlets - mostly blogs, as well as at least a news cable channel - to get its word out. MS is like the Republicans who were continually lambasted by the liberal media for decades, up until the emergence of blogs, talk radio, and the Fox News cable channel. Ordinary people can now turn to several news sources, and make relatively sound judgments about things that are going on - being able to hear several sides to a story. The only independent source that stands out to me as being fair to MS, is wmpoweruser.com. The overwhelming majority of tech news outlets are negatively biased. MS has to proactively correct this situation, to get its stock price, and its employee morale up.
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Excellent idea!
dfolk2 Updated - 4th Apr 2011
@P. Douglas

The collaboration of Microsoft and FOX news that you implicitly suggest sounds like an excellent idea. Both organizations have the same keen dedication to accuracy in the information they put forth- it could be a match made in heaven.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Halloween_documents_leak
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RE: Microsoft's Windows 8: Can a mashup of various features work well?
gavin142 8th Apr 2011
Really? What possible infraction does this post (or it's initial reply) commit so that it deserves being flagged?

I guess calm, cool, reasoned arguments are no longer allowed here, thanks to all the rabid fanatics running around here. I mean, seriously, don't you guys (and we all know who you are) have something better to do? Work maybe?
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The Ribbon is not a navigation tool
Mr. Dee Updated - 3rd Apr 2011
Its a set of tools in respect to it being added to Windows Explorer in Windows 8 to better manage and share files. To be honest, Windows Explorer is heavily dumbed down since Windows Vista, which both good and bad. At the same time, it needs some serious power when you need it and I think the family Ribbon UI should add that. Not to making it seem bloated or jarring though, the Ribbon should be off by default with a single click it appears when you need it with simple tools displays for simple task.

I see where Microsoft is going with Windows 8 and its about cohesiveness across multiple screens, form factors and devices. The familiarity of Windows Phone should translate to the desktop and vice versa and what works best on a small screen should work there and what works best on a big screen should work there. At the same time, there can be some welcome pollination.

The new Welcome Screen is a welcome example of displaying elements such as the dynamic slideshow themes on the lock screen, date and time, music playing the background, makes it a lovely synergy.

I hope better advantage of Windows Live services are taking advantage of especially for streaming and roaming data across multiple systems running Windows 8.
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I think they're experimenting
CobraA1 3rd Apr 2011
"Can a mashup of various features work well?"

I don't think the final form will be a mashup. I think Microsoft knows better than that.

I think it's just the case that Microsoft is just trying out lots of stuff to see what works and what doesn't.
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RE: Microsoft's Windows 8: Can a mashup of various features work well?
KBot 4th Apr 2011
man i friggen hate that office ribbon, I have been using Office 2007 for a while now and still can't find half of what I am looking for in a timely manner. While they made finding other functionality easier, finding the basic functionality is far harder.
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Mashup?
Will Farrell 4th Apr 2011
Taking the best of everyhing and unifying them?

Isn't that what everybody does?
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RE: Microsoft's Windows 8: Can a mashup of various features work well?
jeremychappell 4th Apr 2011
I think the most important thing Microsoft should do is get it done pretty quickly, and don't make it too different. This is where Vista failed, it took too long, and it changes too much.

Windows 7 on the other hand was done quickly, and refined the Vista experience but didn't add too many changes.

Where Vista made lots of software stop working, had few drivers (and many of the ones available at launch were buggy) and had a jarring UI (if you'd grown used to XP). Windows 7 meant almost everything worked, drivers weren't an issue, and the UI felt "pure Windows". It added a few new features to give a little excitement, and was well received.

This play is pure Apple. Mac OS X comes out often, doesn't make too many changes in each release, but still evolves quickly.

Microsoft should do this again - Windows 7 shows they can.

Integrating something like "XBox Live" probably makes sense, I can see how seeing your "friends" might be useful, and even being able to join them within the software they are running might also be useful. It's a familiar metaphor, and could be extended to business software too. Windows Phone 7, I know less about. It seems far harder to integrate this. The needs of "touch" and the needs of "mouse" seem mutually exclusive. I imagine pointless "touch integration" like current Windows 7 - demos well, but in practice isn't worth much. Still didn't hurt Windows 7, so probably won't hurt to leave it in and make it look like WP7. I could be wrong, maybe they can make it work - but it'll be difficult.

The "Ribbon" will probably creep in everywhere, that makes sense. They seem fairly successful within office, they can be a challenge for smaller displays - especially those with a "portrait" aspect ratio (9:16 being really problematic). In general the case for consistency would outweigh any negatives. I do think an option to use traditional drop-down menus might be useful (especially for users who need help with accessibility).

But whatever they do, they shouldn't miss their ship date. and they shouldn't change too much at once.

I do agree with other comments - the Taskbar is ugly, making that look better should be high on their agenda.

In general, these things don't seem at odds with each other - I don't see how WP7 fits in, but maybe that is more about my lack of imagination than Microsoft's (though they've never done "multitouch" well, and as a feature in current Windows it is eminently forgettable). What I do think is they should avoid breaking the current "mouse orientated" Windows paradigm in favour of multitouch. While "multitouch" is the current "new hotness" with Apple's iPad, I think it will always remain secondary to more traditional pointer UIs. The danger is they will end up with a hybridised UI that does neither completely successfully, or a "schizophrenic" UI that is confusing, lacks consistency, and has functions available in one mode that aren't available in another. I don't think (given what Microsoft have done in the past) this is very likely, I think more likely we'll have a fundamentally pointer based UI with some half-baked multitouch feature tacked on (this would seem acceptable).

Certainly Apple haven't made this work and have stuck to two UI design paradigms, without trying to create a kind of "Mac iOS". From what Apple have shown, Lion (Mac OS X 10.7) adds no multitouch features from iOS (other features are added) and treats the two UI metaphors as separate and distinct. Personally I think Microsoft would be well advised to follow this pattern, with Windows 8 for desktop/notebook and WP7 (needs a new name really) for phone/tablet.

What's needed for this to really work is "Microsoft Office for WP7" and good sync tools (probably cloud based). What users really care about is that their data is accessible on all devices, the underlying code used to achieve this is not relevant. Why does it matter if you run "Word for Windows" or "Word for WP7"? If each has a UI tailored to the device in question, and you can always edit your document without losing fidelity (so even features that aren't available in one version aren't "stripped out" in the round trip) what does it matter? Especially if you box the two versions together (so perhaps when you buy "Office" you get a desktop version AND a mobile version in the same box). I don't think end users will care that the executables are different.

I personally don't see the point of Windows 8 on SoC...
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RE: Microsoft's Windows 8: Can a mashup of various features work well?
windozefreak 4th Apr 2011
@jeremychappell
I'm not the smartest egg in the carton, so I'll ask the dumb question. Why update software and not make changes?? I thought that is the purpose of updates! "Those that cannot mordernize will be left in the past."
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RE: Microsoft's Windows 8: Can a mashup of various features work well?
jeremychappell 4th Apr 2011
@windozefreak Too many changes all at once are bad. They stop applications working (a lot rather than a few) they make users very confused. Better to change a little and release more often. You still move the OS forward, but it is easier on everyone.

Vista is an example of too many changes at once, after too long a delay. Windows 7 is an example of a few changes done in a short timeframe.

I think the "Windows 7" way is better than the "Longhorn" way.
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Excellent!
dfolk2 4th Apr 2011
The "ribbon" ,while liked by some, is also disliked by many and is found to be very confusing to non power users. Lets all hope Microsoft continues their downward slide, thus facilitating innovation in the computer industry.
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RE: Microsoft's Windows 8: Can a mashup of various features work well?
Cylon Centurion Updated - 4th Apr 2011
@dfolk2

I'm sorry, the Ribbon is 4 years old, how is it still "confusing" people? I didn't know paging through 5 or 6 different tabs highlighting each feature with descriptive icons was more confusing than paging through numerous nondescript, drop downs on top of a cluttered toolbar?
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Perhaps you get your ideas and info from this very curious crew
dfolk2 4th Apr 2011
@Cylon Centurion 0005

http://rcpmag.com/articles/2007/07/01/minding-your-microsoft-manners.aspx
(A highly recommended and hilarious link from a pro MS site)

For folks who get their information from a more expansive set of sources, it is very common to read complaints about the ribbon, as well as some folks who like it.
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Selective prejudice...
TheWerewolf Updated - 4th Apr 2011
"Thats what happens when you have a massive company trying to thread every phone, laptop, desktop and tablet needle with one operating system."

You mean like iOS - because moving the iPad to the desktop is going to work so well.

What I find so annoying about this entire discussion is that we don't even know what Windows 8 will actually look like yet - apparently the writers have forgotten the entire Vista thing where Microsoft floated all sorts of ideas and only small subset made it into the final product - some to show up later in Windows 8; yet here we are - already bashing Windows 8 before we even know for sure what's in it.

Very objective.
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RE: Microsoft's Windows 8: Can a mashup of various features work well?
puppadave 4th Apr 2011
@TheWerewolf
Totally agree... But you have to remember that negative critism is usually from those who have a negative mindset about almost everything and anything... I was an XP "holdout" and then finally went for Win7 Ultimate and could not be happier... Will wait for the Win8 to be fully developed before I criticise anything about!!!

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