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Oracle sues SAP; alleges 'corporate theft on a grand scale'

By | March 22, 2007, 11:39am PDT

The war between Oracle and SAP is about to move beyond enterprise applications to the courtroom.

Oracle said Wednesday that it has sued SAP "about corporate theft on a grand scale" seeking undisclosed damages. Oracle also argues that the theft formed the basis of SAP's "Safe Passage" program, which is designed to entice Oracle customers to switch to SAP. SAP won't comment until it has reviewed the complaint.

"We have just been notified of the lawsuit, and have taken note of the Oracle press release," said an SAP spokesman. "We are still reviewing the matter, and, until we have a chance to study the allegations, SAP will follow is standard policy of not commenting on pending litigation." 

According to the complaint, Oracle discovered in November "heavy download activity on Oracle's customer support Web site for PeopleSoft and J.D. Edwards products. The site contained information on program and software updates, patches and instructions. Oracle, however, alleges that software and technical support materials, which have limited download rights, were downloaded en masse from an IP address originating in Bryan, Texas, home of SAP's TomorrowNow (SAP TN) subsidiary, which offers support to PeopleSoft and J.D. Edwards customers.

"Oracle’s server logs have recorded access through this same IP address by computers labeled with SAP identifiers using SAP IP addresses," said Oracle, which noted that customers didn't partake in downloading. The lawsuit is just the latest volley in an ongoing war between SAP and Oracle.

The two parties increasingly take jabs at each other. And the fight has increasingly become one of collecting support and maintenance fees from technology buyers. Indeed, SAP bought TomorrowNow in 2005 partially as a way to convince Oracle customers to switch to SAP.

In the complaint Oracle said:

"Oracle brings this lawsuit after discovering that SAP is engaged in systematic, illegal access to – and taking from – Oracle’s computerized customer support systems. Through this scheme, SAP has stolen thousands of proprietary, copyrighted software products and other confidential materials that Oracle developed to service its own support customers. SAP gained repeated and unauthorized access, in many cases by use of pretextual customer log-in credentials, to Oracle’s proprietary, password-protected customer support website. From that website, SAP has copied and swept thousands of Oracle software products and other proprietary and confidential materials onto its own servers. As a result, SAP has compiled an illegal library of Oracle’s copyrighted software code and other materials. This storehouse of stolen Oracle intellectual property enables SAP to offer cut rate support services to customers who use Oracle software, and to attempt to lure them to SAP’s applications software platform and away from Oracle’s."

Oracle is seeking "to stop SAP’s illegal intrusions and theft, to prevent SAP from using the materials it has illegally acquired to compete with Oracle, and to recover damages and attorneys’ fees."

Oracle is alleging that SAP used the company's support documents to undercut pricing in an attempt to gain customers. Oracle claims it saw a spike in downloads in November and December of 2006 as SAP employees downloaded information.

From the complaint:

"SAP employees using the log-in credentials of Oracle customers with expired or soon-to-expire support rights had, in a matter of a few days or less, accessed and copied thousands of individual Software and Support Materials. For a significant number of these mass downloads, the users lacked any contractual right even to access, let alone copy, the Software and Support Materials. The downloads spanned every library in the Customer Connection support website. For example, using one customer’s credentials, SAP suddenly downloaded an average of over 1,800 items per day for four days straight (compared to that customer’s normal downloads averaging 20 per month). Other purported customers hit the Oracle site and harvested Software and Support Materials after they had cancelled all support with Oracle in favor of SAP TN. Moreover, these mass downloads captured Software and Support Materials that were clearly of no use to the “customers” in whose names they were taken. Indeed, the materials copied not only related to unlicensed products, but to entire Oracle product families that the customers had not licensed."

Apparently, the downloading continued into the new year. In January 2007, Oracle claims that SAP logged in as Honeywell International and accessed the company's support materials "in virtually every product library in every line of business."

Oracle continues:

"This copying went well beyond the products that Honeywell had licensed and to which it had authorized access. In other examples, users from SAP logged in using the credentials of recently departed customers, like Metro Machine Corp., and downloaded Software and Support Materials even after the customer had dropped its support rights with Oracle. Oracle has found many examples of similar activity. Across its entire library of Software and Support Materials in Customer Connection, Oracle to date has identified more than 10,000 unauthorized downloads of Software and Support Materials relating to hundreds of different software programs."

The techniques allegedly deployed by SAP's Tomorrow Now unit were also detailed.

"SAP employees used the log-in IDs of multiple customers, combined with phony user log-in information, to gain access to Oracle’s system under false pretexts. Employing these techniques, SAP users effectively swept much of the contents of Oracle’s system onto SAP’s servers. These “customer users” supplied user information (such as user name, email address, and phone number) that did not match the customer at all. In some cases, this user information did not match anything: it was fake. For example, some users logged in with the user names of “xx” “ss” “User” and “NULL.” Others used phony email addresses like “test@testyomama.com” and fake phone numbers such as “7777777777” and “123 456 7897.” In other cases, SAP blended log-in information from multiple customers with fake information. For example, one user name connected to an SAP IP address appears to have logged in using the credentials of seven different customers in a span of just 15 days – all from SAP computers in Bryan, Texas."

The common thread in these intrusions according to Oracle: All of the accounts accessed were about Oracle customers that became or were about to become SAP TomorrowNow customers.

"In the course of this investigation, Oracle discovered a pattern. Frequently, in the month before a customer’s Oracle support expired, a user purporting to be that customer, employing the customer’s log-in credentials, would access Oracle’s system and download large quantities of Software and Support Materials, including dozens, hundreds, or thousands of products beyond the scope of the specific customer’s licensed products and permitted access. Some of these apparent customer users even downloaded materials after their contractual support rights had expired."

"Oracle’s support servers have even received hits from URL addresses in the course of these unlawful downloads with SAP TN directly in the name (e.g. http://hqitpc01.tomorrownow.com). Indeed, for many of these downloads, Oracle noticed that SAP TN did not even bother to change the false user information from customer to customer when it logged in."

Oracle goes on to document the war between the database and applications giant and SAP for customers. The customer accounts allegedly accessed read like a who's who of corporate America.

Oracle has uncovered unlicensed downloads linked to SAP TN on behalf of numerous customers, including without limitation, Abbott Laboratories, Abitibi-Consolidated, Inc., Bear, Stearns & Co., Berri Limited, Border Foods, Caterpillar Elphinstone,Distribution & Auto Service, Fuelserv Limited, Grupo Costamex, Helzberg Diamonds, HerbertWaldman, Honeywell International, Interbrew UK, Laird Plastics, Merck & Co., Metro Machine Corp., Mortice Kern Systems, Inc., National Manufacturing, NGC Management Limited, OCE Technologies, B.V., Ronis, S.A., Smithfield Foods, SPX Corporation, Stora Enso, Texas Association of School Boards, VSM Group AB, and Yazaki North America.

If this lawsuit goes to trial, it will be interesting for another reason: Details about the cutthroat nature of the enterprise applications business, pricing practices, customer testimony and corporate espionage precedent are likely to emerge.

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Larry Dignan is Editor in Chief of ZDNet and SmartPlanet as well as Editorial Director of ZDNet's sister site TechRepublic.

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Larry Dignan

Larry Dignan has nothing to disclose. He doesn’t hold investments in the technology companies he covers.

Biography

Larry Dignan

Larry Dignan is Editor in Chief of ZDNet and SmartPlanet as well as Editorial Director of ZDNet's sister site TechRepublic. He was most recently Executive Editor of News and Blogs at ZDNet. Prior to that he was executive news editor at eWeek and news editor at Baseline. He also served as the East Coast news editor and finance editor at CNET News.com. Larry has covered the technology and financial services industry since 1995, publishing articles in WallStreetWeek.com, Inter@ctive Week, The New York Times, and Financial Planning magazine. He's a graduate of the Columbia School of Journalism and the University of Delaware.

For daily updates, follow Larry on Twitter.

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RE: Oracle sues SAP; alleges 'corporate theft on a grand scale'
ujhrdngjk 12th Aug 2009
MKV to XVID Converter || MKV to PS3 Converter both are brili tools for mkv convertible videos.
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0 Votes
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Framed?
Yensi717 22nd Mar 2007
This sounds more like a disgruntal employee trying to take down his own company. Armed with logins for your biggest competitor, why else would you use your own company network to download the files? Use a local coffee shop's wifi!
0 Votes
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Not hardly...
No_Ax_to_Grind 22nd Mar 2007
SAP did it, they are going to pay the price.
0 Votes
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SAP isn't ever gonna pay a penny
shipsone@... 22nd Mar 2007
Oracle's security is easy to intrude, anybody can do it. They only have themselves to blame.
Besides Larry Ellison is megalomaniac. - He still hungers to become the richest man the world. Also will never happen.
0 Votes
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Hmmmm
maldain 22nd Mar 2007
So if the door is unlocked it's ok to steal anything that's not nailed down? I don't think so. It looks to me like SAP got caught with their hands in the cookie jar up to their elbows. Just because you don't like Ellison (and what sane person does) doesn't mean that SAP has the right to steal the property of a competitor.
0 Votes
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Hmmm...
bportlock 22nd Mar 2007
... but if you had valuables that you left in plain view within reach of an open window, the court would not offer you much sympathy.

In ways this does not look all that different from a careless homeowner moaning that their property has been nicked.
0 Votes
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unfair competition
james.strange@... 22nd Mar 2007
Theft is theft. It doesn't matter if it was easy to steal or hard.
Think about this situation the next time a hacker penetrates a hole in your company's security. It is the same thing. You left a window open. Someone chose to reach in and grab what wasn't theirs.
In the case of the Oracle software, they had to obtain a password and accept an online agreement about fair use of the software. In your company's case, you setup a firewall that you thought was good enough. Both cases left a hole for people who are unscrupulous.
Both situations also run up the cost of doing business.
SAP's actions are bad for everyone.
0 Votes
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RMS Smiling all around
Too Old For IT 23rd Mar 2007
After all, the data wants to be free, right?
0 Votes
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WHAT
Aussie_Troll 23rd Mar 2007
so every shop owner should not be allowed to display their product and have a door available for cusomters to enter the building.

and if you happen to see a shop with an open door, and products on display, its your "RIGHT" to enter and take those products,, !!! YOU MORON,,
0 Votes
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silly
georgef 24th Mar 2007
It seems oracle lets paying customers download what they - its called marketing. Allowing custoemrs to educate themselves before buying more modules. It also keeps it simple for oracle - they dont have to classify each document, note , tip and technique by module whic would be crazy as so many things interlap. What oracle expects is that customers will not use this material to compete with them for customers. Guaraunteed this excessive downloading would not be a problem if the people doing the downloading werent competing with oracle for customers and using the collateral oracle created to do it
0 Votes
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Larry Ellison is Megalomaniac? Offensive to Meglomaniacs!
Too Old For IT 23rd Mar 2007
I know megalomaniacs that would be offended to be included in the same sentance as Larry Ellison.
0 Votes
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Oracle can't foresee the future?
archetuthus 22nd Mar 2007
May the heads soon roll at SAP!

But??aside from whether anyone at SAP broke or didn't break any signed agreements, or Website usage agreements??*one* parameter of judging whether "trade secrets" were stolen (or just that information was taken) is how well the information was protected and treated as "secret."

If you keep your customer lists on a lobby desk, photocopying them is not seen as being as grave an offense as if you kept them under lock and key near a security camera, which the perp must have had had to breach. Your treatment of your data defines its value to you.

If you don't proactively keep your information *secret* in at least a couple of possible ways??e.g., stating so in policy and contracts, background checks on employees, physical measures, cameras, passwords with tough standards, sign-out/in sheets, access audits??you only have data, not "trade secrets."

The SAP employees were (apparently) entirely dishonest, but Oracle failed to foresee and forfend the obvious.
0 Votes
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This is the same Oracle ...
Too Old For IT 23rd Mar 2007
This is the same Oracle that used to root around in Microsoft's transh bins, right?
0 Votes
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Who's in charge of security at Oracle?
cicuta 22nd Mar 2007
I'm still amazed Oracle itself is telling everyone about such massive unauthorized downloads without even trying to explain why their systems allowed them in the first place. If I understand correctly, anyone can access their servers and download anything by just providing any kind of fake credentials. Hello?
0 Votes
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Security defined.
Narg 22nd Mar 2007
OK, go to your local store. You see items on the shelf for purchase. What's to keep you from taking something and walking out without paying for it? Same applies here. The data was stolen, period. That's against the law. DUH!
0 Votes
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Not the same thing here
georgeou 22nd Mar 2007
We're talking about a wide open website here that allowed anonymous downloads. There was no security broken at all. Oracle might as well have put buckets of fruits on their sidewalk with a "help yourself" sign.
0 Votes
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Not quite right, George
Zeppo9191 23rd Mar 2007
Oracle didn't have a "help yourself" sign on the document site. The proper security might not have been in place, but SAP still knew they were accessing Oracle's intellectual property. If they claim otherwise, they're also insinuating their own stupidity on a grand scale.

A closer analogy would be if Oracle placed buckets of fruit in their lobby and put a sign on them, "For our customers." SAP should know that this would not include them, because they hadn't purchased anything from Oracle.
0 Votes
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SAP encourced their customers to download docs legally
georgeou 23rd Mar 2007
SAP encourced their customers to download docs legally; all of them. Here's a good read.
http://blogs.zdnet.com/Greenbaum/?p=105
0 Votes
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Theft's OK when it's easy?
blunderdog 23rd Mar 2007
I live in NYC.

I walk down the street where there are thousands of carts of fruit, racks of clothes,
shelves of books, all FOR SALE on the sidewalk.

Often, these goods are "protected" by a single (overweight, venerable) person who
sits on a folding easy-chair and smokes cigars.

Would George say such practices are invitations for me to take the displayed
goods without paying?

Could I use that as a defense if I took such things and found myself arrested?

I find it amazing that responses to this case are so polarized. The vast majority of
the responses are either, "I hate Oracle, so SAP should get off" or "SAP are thieving
bastards who should be eviscerated."

As someone who has no direct experience or interests in either company, I find it
fascinating. The case really goes to the heart of "intellectual property" debates in
so many ways.

I know for certain that neither simple answer is correct.
0 Votes
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It's not the same as taking fruit
georgeou 23rd Mar 2007
The accounts being used were from former Oracle customers who were entitled to download those documents. As for downloads from "User" or "Null", Oracle would need to prove beyond just their own server logs.

As far as comparing this to taking fruit, they weren't taking it. It was the copying of publicly available data.
0 Votes
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Red Herrings and EULAs
blunderdog 23rd Mar 2007


Well, not exactly, according to Oracle...

They claim that customers are only "entitled" to download documents/software
pertaining to the products that they purchased/licensed.

In other words, any given customer would have had to buy every single product
Oracle sells in order to be "entitled" to download everything on the support site.

What I think is really at issue is "how binding are end-user agreements?"
Seriously.

Example: MS says you can't run Vista basic in a VM.

But how are they going to STOP you? If they can't stop you, are you "entitled" to
do it, even though it violates the license agreement?

Same thing here. The "end user agreement" to use the Oracle support site says
you can't download stuff for products you didn't buy. If Oracle "tried" to prevent
people from downloading stuff but failed, does that change the equation?
0 Votes
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Sort of but not really.
osreinstall 23rd Mar 2007
If I was a customer of Oracle, I could download that data from any place in the world. Just because I happen to be at TomorrowNow, it doesn't matter. Just like I could download any of the data from MS and validate it from any desktop with any IP. Not only that, I can give out that name and password to my support folks on my behalf that happen to be a third party for they will treat it confidentially anyway. They are working for me and they are getting paid. Who cares other than Larry if the parent corporation is SAP.

I believe what happened was that these customers of TomorrowNow a SAP subsidiary was downloading patches for their customers with them sitting at their terminal or on the support line. They would also download a lot, for all of their customers have a wide area of services. They are supporting JD Edwards and Peoplesoft customers for a fraction of what Larry boy would do it for. That is what he is really pissed over. If he was so concerned about it, why didn't Larry block the competition with his firewall. Sounds like a setup and the tool was a infringement honey pot. I bet he will try to wrestle away TomorrowNow from SAP as a settlement to get the customer base. Good luck Larry for they are definitely not going with Oracle.
0 Votes
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security defined
Al_nyc 23rd Mar 2007
The store analogy does not apply. The data was served up. Someone went to the store and said, 'can I have this?'. The store owner said, tell me who you are and you can have it. The store owner should have been more selective on who they give their product to.
0 Votes
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re: who's in charge of security
akautz2@... 22nd Mar 2007
Good point. I'm and Oracle Certified Professional, (for what it's worth), but I'm allowed to access their download center and support center and get whatever is there. And they have everything available for download. In fact, anybody can go fill out the form and start downloading trial products, documentation, etc.
What must be bugging Oracle is that SAP just took advantage of it and actually (oh, my)downloaded things!
0 Votes
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That's right...
guevaradavid@... 23rd Mar 2007
I would like to apply for the -newly vacant- possition of Security Manager of Oracle. I don't think I could do a poorer job than that poor bastard...

LOL
0 Votes
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My Oracle Rep Just Called ...
Too Old For IT 23rd Mar 2007
My Oracle rep just called. He was out on Larry Ellison's yacht getting a suntan and called to tell me that Oracle has never had any security holes and never will, and if a re-negotiate my support agreement at a higher rate, this will always be true.

I'm still trying to figure out what he meant by "tan lines on your butt" in the context of my support agreement ...
0 Votes
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Well done! 9.0
John L. Ries 23rd Mar 2007
Mike Cox couldn't have said it better.
0 Votes
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That's a good Mike Cox impression
georgeou 23rd Mar 2007
nt
0 Votes
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I don't think it's a security issue
CaptainDave 25th Mar 2007
From what I read in the articles, SAP is accused of using valid customer id's and passwords, but faking the rest of the information (employee name etc).
So maybe we could call it a phishing scheme but not really a security hole.
I'm more interested to see the reactions from the "customers" whose accounts were used. Those are big companies with big legal departments. If they see that they've been exposed to legal risk, they should have something to say as well.
This could turn into a great spectator sport.
0 Votes
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Send in the RIAA/MPAA - that'll learn 'em!!
Carrion 22nd Mar 2007
Oracle should put some music on their servers and let the entertainment industry go after them. They have this sort of stuff down to an art!! happy
0 Votes
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Let me get this straight
John L. Ries 22nd Mar 2007
SAP is accused of downloading and misusing publicly available support materials from Oracle's website? And they call them "confidential"?

Looks more like copyright infringement to me (maybe), but I'm no lawyer.
0 Votes
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Alex
Alexandre Jaquet 22nd Mar 2007
I hate them happy They doesn't really provide appropriate products.
0 Votes
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Oracle sues SAP
bill@... 22nd Mar 2007
Theft is illegal period whether or not it was easy to penetrate ORACLE security. Appparently some think that ORACLE should make their customers access more burdensome to prevent common thieves from downloading useful support info and using it to an unfair advantage.

What has happened to ethics and integrity? Of course if ORACLE has participated in similar subterfuge I would allege the same lack of ethics and integrity in their regard.
0 Votes
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no use your sense
sen_smiles01 22nd Mar 2007
Even in a regular store there are security mesures put in place so the common joe can't steal from the company. If Oracle did not do more to secure their database then that's their fault and SAP have nothing to do with it. Oracle's just upset their losing business.
0 Votes
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Sense?
Fred Nurks 22nd Mar 2007
Theft does not require circumvention of security. SAP stole pure and simple. Oracle are clowns for their sloppy security, but this does not protect SAP from prosecution for the theft.

If lack of security is key to SAPs defense then nobody is safe, no matter what security you use, it could always be argued that you could have more.

I just hope Oracle learn to have the verification of users actually happen in future and when rights lapse so do login details. They should also limit the access users have to only what they should be entitled to, its just basic security.
0 Votes
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There are laws against enticement and entrapment
georgeou 22nd Mar 2007
Oracle is claiming security measures were broken, but if you post information that?s available for anyone to see and download, then no security measures were bypassed. Last time I checked, Mr. NULL isn?t someone you can pretext.
0 Votes
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... there are people named Mr Null...
CaptainDave 25th Mar 2007
I checked the phone book. I'm sure Mr Null would be offended if Oracle wouldnt do business with him... wink

Now, I haven't checked the site in question, but according to the quotes from Oracle's suit, they used valid customer credentials and passwords (Honeywells) then gave false info on which employee they were (Mr Null)

I'm not sure whether it would be fair to state that the material is available to the public
0 Votes
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Agreed, Good Drama Potential
blunderdog 22nd Mar 2007
At face value, this should be a great ride if SAP doesn't immediately settle, which I'd expect.

It looks like SAP-TN is a company that wants to compete with Oracle for support contracts. Providing support for software is a business in which your fundamental asset is information. The information which Oracle provided as support for its software was largely available on its website.

Logons are required for access to this information. This security can be defeated fairly easily, and was. More significantly, logons of Oracle customers were used to access the information.

The terms of use of the site hold users (heh, CUSTOMERS) responsible for the activity that occurs with your account if the passwords are compromised and you make no effort to notify Oracle.

Oracle claims that SAP is guilty of stealing their intellectual property for the furtherance of competing with them for business.

Assuming their complaint is factually accurate, obviously, that's a very strong argument Oracle makes that SAP "broke the rules" and should pay them tons of money.

The catch is, SAP was largely enable to break the rules in this way (and to the degree they did) through either the collusion or negligence of a bunch of their former customers.

If SAP acknowledges the corporate wrongdoing, they could point out that Oracle should be naming the former customers in the case as well as themselves. Is there any way for them to countersue the former customers for assistance with damages?

SAP can also make the argument that Oracle's terms of use of their "information and software" which was downloaded _precludes_ it from being assigned a significant dollar value. (You know, the part that says: If Oracle's support contract is priced/modeled completely as a "service," rather than any form of "sale of information," how can a financial value be meaningfully assigned to the data?

This'll be great if anything comes of it. LOTS of IP interests involved, and both the players can afford to really slog it out.
0 Votes
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Great post Blunderdog
marty@... 23rd Mar 2007
You pull out many of the key points to watch here. It sounds like the recent
acquisition (SA-TN) was looking to make and impression on its new corporate
masters or as someone else has suggested a disgruntled employee at TN was trying
to make problems for them. In any case, bad dogs...no biscuit.

Can't wait for the testimony to begin.
0 Votes
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Think again...
metalcrit 22nd Mar 2007
If Oracle can prove that SAP employees did in fact download product and support related materials while pretending to be Oracle customers, it may constitute theft.

As already mentioned in one of the posts, Oracle should review their access policies to ensure that the information is properly protected, and could only be accessed by an authorized person/organization.

For example, try getting support or confidential information off MSDN, TechNet or better yet, Microsoft Partner Portal, without having a valid user ID and password. Does not happen too often, does it?

On another note, the comparison between a retail store and Oracle website is simply absurd. If a retail store wants to protects products on the shelf, the tag them with the security devices, and install video cameras to monitor their precious stocks. If Oracle did not care enough to safeguard commercial software, blaming SAP for stealing information that is available to the public is also absurd.

In any event, I look forward to the day when Microsoft or Google buys either Oracle or SAP, or both to end this madness.
0 Votes
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MS or Google buying them thats funny
jfp 23rd Mar 2007
MS has already looked into and rejected merging with SAP, they prefer to compete with them using the Dynamics product line. MS won't buy Oracle, simply because any such deal like that would never be allowed by the anti-trust people. As for Google I don't see them getting into the Markets that SAP or Oracle serve, and if they did they would go after one of the Software as a service providers of ERP software, since that fits there business model.
0 Votes
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Thinking again about theft...?
idea-catalyst 23rd Mar 2007
If the defense of "you didn't secure it" becomes a legitimate defense against theft, they you'd better install security cameras, dogs, concertina wire, chains, and other devices to be sure that someone doesn't think the unattended barbecue grill in your back yard is fair game. Absurd is thinking that theft is not theft just because it's easy.
0 Votes
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it was a TRAP!!!
mandodanda@... 22nd Mar 2007
I am sure Oracle does have the security, it was a nice honey trap to damage SAP... and SAP is gonna pay.

I am sure it will be settled outside the court, since probably both parties have illegal practices they will not like to disclose.
0 Votes
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Something' doesn't sound right
John Zern 22nd Mar 2007
You would think that a company the size of SAP would download this info from sites not traceable to them, yet how convenient that Oracle can produce "server logs" with IPs and identifiers easily traceable right back to SAP.

I'm figuring a company run by a person with an ego and ambitions as large as Larry Ellison's would stop at nothing to discredit the largest player in the game, so if SAP hasn't given Oracle any ammo, why not make it up for themselves?
0 Votes
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Oracle server logs are worthless, they need to have ISP server logs
georgeou 22nd Mar 2007
Oracle server logs are worthless, they need to have ISP server logs corroberating the transactions.

Furthermore, the fact that Oracle performed ZERO due dillegience means that Oracle may as well have put some carts of fruit on their side walk fully exposed to the public. There were no security measures broken because there were no security measures.
0 Votes
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Message has been deleted.
jerryleecooper Updated - 23rd Mar 2007
0 Votes
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For the love of...
darcyfreak 23rd Mar 2007
For the love of all things green and my hard drives; I hope you are being sarcastic.
0 Votes
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The Fault of the Young
blunderdog 23rd Mar 2007
Yeah, totally.

The current generation raised itself from babies and instilled its own set of morals
and values with no influence from the previous generations or parents.

PS: Lemme tell ya, it was rough foraging for myself at the tender age of ZERO. How
can anyone blame ME for having no respect for the authority that failed me so
horribly?
0 Votes
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linux and the devil
llval@... 23rd Mar 2007
I'd recommend you use the restroom in seattle
- not that it would help you any getting serious,
but after all you'd not expose as unskilled ms spammer.
0 Votes
+ -
WTF is this gentleman serious...?
c_vanwinkle1951@... 23rd Mar 2007
will the MSCE cert guaranty the ethical position of an GEN Z%$zY executive? not likely...it certifies that one can take a test and that one know something, not the level of one's moral compass...
so get real, Dude!
0 Votes
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9.5 +/- .001
osreinstall 23rd Mar 2007
For 4 fish on that Colbert Report. Nice to see you put the irresponsible youth on notice.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: Oracle sues SAP; alleges 'corporate theft on a grand scale'
ujhrdngjk 12th Aug 2009
MKV to XVID Converter || MKV to PS3 Converter both are brili tools for mkv convertible videos.

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