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Between the Lines

Larry Dignan, Andrew Nusca and Rachel King

Was Apple right? Adobe Flash crashes twice during mobile demo

By | May 10, 2010, 12:33pm PDT

Summary: With the spotlight on Adobe Flash for mobile, thanks to Apple’s distaste for it, an onstage demo of Flash crashing twice doesn’t help the cause.

updated below with response from Ryan Stewart

Nothing sucks more than being on stage in front of a bunch of techies and having your demo crash on you twice. Actually, the only way that sucks more is if you’re Adobe and it’s Flash that’s crashing on a mobile device, forcing folks to wonder if Steve Jobs was right about the stability of Flash.

This incident happened last week at FlashCamp Seattle, according to a blog post by Jeff Croft, a Seattle developer who also moderated a panel at the event. Flash Platform evangelist Ryan Stewart was demoing Flash Player 10.1 on a Nexus One phone during the opening keynote when things went bad and then got worse. Croft wrote in his blog:

Here’s what happened: On his Mac, Ryan pulled up a site called Eco Zoo. It is, seemingly, a pretty intense example of Flash development — full of 3D rendering, rich interactions, and cute little characters. Then, he pulled up the same thing on his Nexus One. The site’s progress bar filled in and the 3D world appeared for a few seconds before the browser crashed. Ryan said (paraphrasing), “Whoops! Well, it’s beta, and this is an intense example — let’s try it again.” He tried it again and got the same result. So he said to the audience, “Well, this one isn’t going to work, but does anyone have a Flash site they’d like to see running?” Someone shouted out “Hulu.” Ryan said, “Hulu doesn’t work,” and then wrapped up his demo, telling people if they wanted to try more sites they could find him later and he’d let them play with his Nexus One.

Ouch.

To be fair, Croft notes that the problem with Hulu may not be the fault of Adobe and may be more with Hulu - but no one knows for sure. Also, he notes that Flash on Android is beta, which means it’s expected to be “crashy and buggy” at this stage.

Still, the natives are getting restless, he says, and are anxious to see a full Flash player that works well on mobile. A demo that crashes does little to help build confidence around a product or to prove that it’s almost ready for prime time.

Under normal circumstances, a crash at during an on-stage demo at a techie conference might have been no big deal. But the public sparring between Adobe and Apple over Flash has put the topic into the spotlight.

The pressure is on for Adobe. Croft is right in suggesting that Adobe avoid any more demos until it’s really solid.

Update: Ryan Stewart posted a comment on the talkbacks that’s worth reading. In addition, he also posted a response about what went wrong and an update - as well as a video - on how it’s supposed to work. That, too, is also worth checking out.

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Sam has been a technology and business blogger for more than 18 years.

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Sam Diaz

Sam Diaz has nothing to disclose.

Biography

Sam Diaz

Sam has been a technology and business blogger, reporter and editor at ZDNet, the Washington Post, San Jose Mercury News and Fresno Bee for more than 18 years. He's a member of the National Association of Hispanic Journalists and a graduate of California State University, Fresno.

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Hi
RoadsWilson 15th Nov
Hi....

I have visited you blog and feel good to read comments about to fixing the adobe flash crash and other,s but now i am focused the same fixing adobe flash crash someone recommend me to visit this error site and feel the difference of services and i follow that person and really i have get a lot of benefits from this its solve almost every problem related to this error, I want to recommend you to visit this http://www.shockwaveflashcrash.com and you also feel the difference between this and others sites.
Thanks
0 Votes
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To be fair, maybe you should have skipped this article, since no one knows
Dietrich T. Schmitz,Your Linux Advocate 10th May 2010
for sure. wink
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Knows what?
Bruizer 10th May 2010
@Dietrich T. Schmitz,Your Linux Advocate
That Adobe Flash crashed repeatably when demoed on a "super phone" by an Adobe employee?

Or that Flash has yet to run successfully on a mobile phone?

Either way, Adobe screwed the pooch on demos. Always know what you are going to demo and make sure it works; be ready for crashes and have a good backup plan.
@Bruizer Actually, my bet is that Flash again forgot to let go of processor cycles during previous tests, so that when he went to demo it again, it simply didn't have enough processor left to run the demo. Crashing it out didn't let go of the previous resources, so the second try pulled it down again.

This is the same kind of issue Flash has had ever since Adobe's purchase of Macromedia. Until Adobe fixes that problem, they don't stand a chance.
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Spot the Apple troll....
johnmckay 11th May 2010
@Bruizer Get a grip on reality. I don't use my Blackberry for the web much and have little interest in the petty politics of Apple and Adobe... The markets will settle that in due course. Your remarks are as dumb as this story though. Labelled as an Adobe problem to get the headline; sucks you in (you should read it again) clearly states beta, clearly states 'doesn't know whether Adobe or Hula'. Why respond as if you know more than the the rest of the world? ps Smart phones existed long before the iphone; Not as good in some departments, better in others, but still relevant.

Your last point is relevant and we need to assume that the guy was fairly confident, but something went far more wrong in real life.... otherwise they've been real dumb. Then again we all get complacent from time to time.
This is the exact thing Apple was talking about. I'm sure this guy tested the site before hand, and worked maybe more than once. And crashes randomly at the most critical time. Beta or not, you are going to see this even after final, as i'm sure they thought it was working, just like before the DEMO! LOL. Steve has now got another case to show the DOJ/FCC when they come knocking.
@m3kw9 Dude, Eco Zoo was a RETARDED site to try to run from a mobile phone. Full blur, full 3D, full matrix transformations, cloth simulation..... I mean, what the ****? We might want to watch a video, we don't need to play effing Farmville or control the space station.
@staticfive bull. You guys are complaining about having "the full web" and if you leave that stuff off so it will work its not eth full web now is it. Just like we left flash off the iphone so it will work. your suggesting crippling the mobile version so it works. NO either give us a FULL WEB EXPERIENCE with flash or eat your d**n words about flash sucking. Its ok to skip certain experiences with flash as long as you say its ok huh? No farmville no full experience.
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Sam Diaz in classic form.
Lester Young 10th May 2010
A beta for a new platform crashes at a demo, so rah rah rah Apple!
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A Beta that is over a year late.
Bruizer 10th May 2010
@Lester Young

Flash has slipped and slipped and slipped again. By the time Flash is kinda working on a mobile platform, the iPhone (if we take it as the first smart phone to ship with a pretty capable browser) will be 3.5 to 4 years old.

There will be 100's of million of smart phones that will be left out of Flash since it is looking like a 1GHz processor and 256MB RAM will be minimum. This will include WinMo 6.5 phones, phones like the Motorola Droid and the first 3 iPhones; all phone simply lacking the hardware to run Flash.

Flash on mobile has lots to concerned about.
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Facts mean absolutely nothing
Snooki_smoosh_smoosh 11th May 2010
@Bruizer ... unless they some how fit together to justify hating Apple and Steve Jobs, and like any good religion, ignore all other facts.
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@Bruizer FYI, Flash was demonstrated on a Palm Pre last year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpI6gA9cuME
This isn't an endorsement of Apple.

Here's the thing: if you're going to demo something on stage at a conference, I would hope that you put the demo through many practice runs before doing it in front of a crowd. Assuming that was done, it's unfortunate that the crashes happened during the demo because it lends to the argument about the platform being unstable.

That's all I'm saying. It's not necessarily an endorsement for Apple's position.
@SamDiaz Hey Sam, actually this was more a case of me just not practicing the demo at all. The site had worked for me before but I was running a build of the player that I shouldn't have been demoing and just didn't double check that it worked.

So mostly just a presenter fail. I upgraded my Player version after getting home and reading Jeff's post and recorded on the newer build. Stay tuned for Google I/O.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0y7XJI4NN7k

=Ryan
ryan@adobe.com
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Stuff happens
Richard Flude 10th May 2010
Demos sometimes fail, but a good lesson hopefully learnt about testing before demoing.

Looking forward to Flash 10.1. Hopefully full support for CrystalHD on Linux. We need it:-)
@ryanstewart

Upon reading this blog post, I opened the link to Eco Zoo in a new tab on my MacBook Pro 10.5.8 with Flock. I have FlashBuilder installed on my machine so I got 3 scripting error, which I "continued", and got a blank screen. A refresh started the site.
@ryanstewart Whatever, man. Showing that it works on a certain build can't fix this PR disaster. Steve has now has another nut to grab on to for this Flash fiasco. (As in he has Adobe by the balls)
@ryanstewart Nice try Ryan for the CYA followup. It says something that it still crashed. Not unlike every other flash crash I've had on *non-beta* flash apps.

BTW most users have no idea if they are running current flash player versions or not nor any understanding as to why keeping it up to date is important. I frequently see people still running Flash 6!
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Hard to believe??????
attasi 12th May 2010
@ryanstewart

?????? that this hadn't been tested before hand. You showed the same demo at SXSW and it crashed there as well. I really hope Adobe can work things out before the "flash is too buggy" stigma grows any further.
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Flash is a buggy security nightmare
ubiquitous one Updated - 12th May 2010
US-Cert, Symantec even Charlie Miller all recommend blocking Flash. It was the second most popular attack vector of 2009. NoScript is one of the most downloaded plug-ins for Firefox. Gee, wonder why. lol...

What I find hypocritical is Flash was dumped on for years by many people for this crap, yet when Jobs nixed it for the iPad, suddenly Flash has a lot of defenders coming out of the woodwork for the sole reason it was Apple who nixed it.

You silly posers will look for any lame NBM excuse, now wouldn't you...
@ryanstewart At a time that Adobe is trying to prove and establish Flash in the mobile space, you present a beta build? You are as good of a Flash evangelist as George Bush was a model of foreign policy.

You're a joker. This is hilarious. I'd be less surprised if you were somehow under Apple's payroll.
@SamDiaz Flash's stability varies from one platform to the next. It is a fact.
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RE: Pressure is on Adobe....
dave95. Updated - 10th May 2010
But it's taken them this long just to bring out Flash that's not buggy, how long will it take them to bring out critical updates? To satisfy all the veriations of smart phones out there? Too much importance is being placed on one company offering what is really just a 3rd party plugin for Web video. Flash reign was (and still may be) on the desktop. Not the mobile space.
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Flash is NOT just a video player. That would be quicktime, or WMP, or even Realplayer. Flash is a complete programming environment. If you would like a teeny tiny demo of what flash has been doing for the last 5 or so years, just go visit some of those online free game sites like addictinggames.com. Heck, years ago entire educational games were based on the early versions of Macromedia Flash. I still see them here and there at work, ca 1999-2004 vintage. O man, I can't believe that anyone thinks of flash as a video player. Bad apple. Baaad apple!
@rock06r

I fully understand what Flash is, and know its a programing environment (Graphic Designer here). But Flash is mainly used for playback of web videos, ads and cheesy games in a browser today by consumers. Maybe I am having difficulty seeing how this is a better experience for consumers than having games and videos taking full advantage of the hardware on their devices. Each demo I see of Flash is done showing how you can replicating the Flash desktop experience on a small smart phone screen (with ads taking up the other half of the browser window). Why would I want that on such a small screen especially when find myself annoyed with it now? Flash will continue to serve its purpose on desktops/laptops with larger screens, I just have a hard time seeing the Flash experience being replicated well on 3-4 inch screens, in a browser. And i've yet to see a Flash game that blows me away.
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If I were a smartphone OEM...
Synthmeister 10th May 2010
I wouldn't be waiting on Adobe for the secret sauce on my next smartphone.
The timeliness of this is what should be striking everyone. Just as Apple goes to the public to reinforce their stance that Flash is unstable. Heads at Adobe should roll over this one. They are truly in a battle for survival here. Apple is leading the mobile market charge right now. Adobe needs Flash to run "beyond reproach" on Android phones to show that they belong in your pocket and not just on your desk. This little misstep does not do them any good at all. And with Hulu being a HUGE reason to have mobile Flash, this whole event may set them back tremendously.

Although I agree with Apple's stance on this, I hate to see it play out this way. It would have been optimal had Adobe just stepped up a couple of years ago and put some honest effort into an iPhone friendly product. It became a stand-off between the companies on what had to be trimmed and now Apple looks like tyrants and Adobe look like slackers. It kind of serves Adobe right though. They thought they could push Apple off since they were the "other ran" in the computer business. They underestimated the weight that would be carried by Apple in the mobile world.
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flash on the iphone
banned from zdnet 10th May 2010
so how could apple have flash on the iphone if it is still in beta and not even working on a rehearsed demo now, three years later? maybe adobe should deliver first before they complain about a lack of support (for their proprietary technology).
0 Votes
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He should have used a Nokia N900
Sleeper Service 10th May 2010
Which actually works. Probably because it uses a better operating system than the Nexus.
@Sleeper Service: How could that be? You have access to the Beta Flash 10 or are you referring to Flash Lite which is not the same?
I wasn't aware that there was even a question. Since when was the fact that Flash crashes a lot a matter of right or wrong?
0 Votes
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The real truth about Adobe.
zato_3@... 10th May 2010
Adobe used to make Mac software for designers and ad agencies. It was run by Mac fans. Then Adobe created PDF, which sold very well to the enterprise market, and made billions for Adobe. They used the money to buy Macromedia, another Mac software company. This was a bid to totally dominate the content creation software market.To become the "Microsoft: of creative software. Along the way, the "Mac" people running the company were replaced with Microsoft worshippers. Some of them are outright Mac haters. They have secretly worked against Apple, to deliver the ad agency market to Microsoft.
@zato_3@... Wow, what a consiperacy theory!
--Ram--
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@zato_3@... awesome to be so inside with all the privvy info from The Top......
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Like that muscleman kicking sand...
Feldwebel Wolfenstool 10th May 2010
...in the face of the skinny weakling sunning on the beach. Mfgs. gotta BEEF UP their gear.
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Troll
DeusExMachina 11th May 2010
@Feldwebel Wolfenstool
First, you're an idiot
Second, changing the subject = troll
Third, considering Apple's customer service reputation, it was always safe to buy an iMac.
Fourth, you're still an idiot.
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@DeusExMachina I can't argue with any of your points... when you are right, you are right.
Why do you think he calls himself a stool?

wink
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Let's change the subject...
Feldwebel Wolfenstool 10th May 2010
Hey, how about those new iMACS? Safe to buy one yet?
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If he'd had kept trying all night, would the headline be "Flash crashes a thousand times?" lol

Besides, he responded above that he was using a untested build.

Anyone here who's a real developer, and who's ever given a demo, knows full well that you always shoot yourself in the foot using a new build for a demo. It's like a Murphy's Law kind of thing.
As you say, it isn't that the Beta crashed. Its that they've slipped their delivery of Flash and been so careful about their wording regarding what devices would support Flash, that they are in a bad place. Meaning that when they choose to put on a demo, it really really needs to look good and work well.

Personally I'd tell Adobe to stop talking, stop demoing and get the damn thing out already. And tell people which devices its going to work on. Until I hear otherwise I'm going to assume that virtually all phones currently available WILL NOT WORK. Or even if they will the carrier likely won't upgrade your OS to support flash. Or even if they do it will take so long you won't care by the time it happens.

Oh, and of course since Hulu was the MAIN thing I would want Flash support for, I'm already less interested in this than I was before.
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EVERYTHING crashes during a demo.
Robert Carnegie 2009 11th May 2010
This is what happens when you demonstrate your cool new thing. It breaks. Even if it never did before and never will again.

If it's a beta edition, you'd better wear insulating gloves for the demo. That sucker can kill.

Microsoft knows this. That's why their stage demos are now pre-recorded on video, and why there are five human heads on spikes on the wall around Bill Gates's house - two are from the Windows 98 team, I don't know about the others but does the name "Bob" mean anything to you?
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3 year old beta?
tk_77 11th May 2010
@Robert Carnegie 2009

But its a beta thats been 3 years in the making. Adobe/Everyone have been complaining about Apple refusing to allow flash on their devices since the iPhone came out. Here we are 3 years later and Flash STILL isn't even ready for a public demo.

The point is less about the crashing or the poor choice of a build on the guys phone as it is more about the inability for Adobe to show any substantial development on the mobile version of Flash for the past 3 years. Sure its beta and expected to be buggy. Why couldn't he demo something less intensive? Some flash game that everyone plays? Steve Jobs had said they asked Adobe to show them a good version of Flash for the past few years and regardless of whether thats true or not, Adobe still can't even show that.
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... is that Flash does consume battery life. Whenever my ipod touch is fully recharged and when I watch youtube flash videos on it, the battery runs out of juice very very quickly. Within less than half-an-hour, my itouch's battery goes in the red. But whenever I am browsing the web or running any other non-flash apps on my itouch, the battery lasts for hours and hours. I think Steve Jobs may be right when he stated that Flash is a resource-hog, eating up battery life, on mobile devices.
@OmarHash Wow. You must be the first person to have the Flash Player on an iPod Touch. Seeing how the iPhone devices don't have Flash on them, I don't really see how it's possible that it drained your battery.

For sure though Flash crashes my Mac. Check it out here --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfgWRZzORXM
@iBrent

Iphone & iTouch come with YOUTUBE app as standard feature right out of the box. Get your facts straight before you shoot your mouth off with your gibberish nonsense.

check out this link on Apple's site ... scroll down till you see the YouTube app for the iphone.

http://www.apple.com/iphone/iphone-3gs/
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Why always video?
tk_77 11th May 2010
@phreadz

Why is it that all these "working" flash "demos" are always of some kind of video playing? It's all but safe to say that at least web video will be moving towards native h.264 support. Apple, Microsoft and Opera all agree on this point. Your two pictures of the phones running flash are pointless. There's no doubt that flash RUNS on these phones, the question is, how well?

Your video (which by the way, played better on my iPad then on my quad core Mac Pro) is the typical poor quality "from afar" demonstration of video playing under flash. Whatever video you had in your demo there could have been a still image as from the resolution you can't tell that its even really playing, or if it is, it looks like there's no movement in the video itself. Not a great demo.

And why are all these demos of video? Why not any games? People really only care about 3 things from what I can tell. Video, Farmville and Mafia wars. Video is moving to html5 (and Hulu is even supposedly coming out with a native app for the iPhone/Ipad) so where are the game demos?

The fact that its 3 years later and there are no real demos of flash doing anything substantial on the phones proves Apples point right there. Even if Flash comes out by the end of the year "in all its glory" it still would have taken over 3 years to get to that point, and its the past 3 years people have been blaming Apple, not Adobe for the lack of Flash on the iDevices.
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Now there you go using a rational arguement
Snooki_smoosh_smoosh 11th May 2010
@tk_77 ... careful now, the Apple haters are going to descend on you like a pack of wild dogs on a 3 legged cat. wink
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They can try to bring it.
tk_77 11th May 2010
@JM1981

I like to think of them as Google and Adobe apologists wink Always sticking up for what Google and Adobe promise will be coming some time in the future

Apple may be a "walled garden" but at least with them you know where you stand. When I got my first iPhone 3 years ago there were no 3rd party native apps. The phone was pretty basic but gave the best web experience of any smart phone and blew my windows mobile phone away. Everything else that has come since then has 1- never been promised by Apple (only speculated/rumored on these blog sites) and 2- has been all bonus. (In the case of tethering I blame that all on AT&T since the iPhone supports tethering outside of the US and via Jailbreak. Does Verizon "officially" support tethering yet? [note, the emphasized word])

Meanwhile you have all those that are saying Adobe is being treated unfairly and that Flash 10.1 will be amazing on the 2 android phones that will run it. Battery life will be fine, and it will run all current keyboard/mouse based games as if they were designed for touch screens. I still have yet to see a true demonstration of this. Where's the public beta? Oh right, pushed back again.
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@tk_77 VZW does support tethering - I had a tethering plan on my work BB Curve that was $15/m for 5GB of data... unfortunately for me my employer decided that it was not something that was needed.
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do u know what beta is?
coolkams03@... 11th May 2010
writing a whole article on a beta build crashing makes you look stupid than anything else..
software is said to be in beta for a reason ..
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Hi
RoadsWilson 15th Nov
Hi....

I have visited you blog and feel good to read comments about to fixing the adobe flash crash and other,s but now i am focused the same fixing adobe flash crash someone recommend me to visit this error site and feel the difference of services and i follow that person and really i have get a lot of benefits from this its solve almost every problem related to this error, I want to recommend you to visit this http://www.shockwaveflashcrash.com and you also feel the difference between this and others sites.
Thanks

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