ie8 fix
madison

Avoiding an iPad-induced panic

By | January 20, 2011, 8:58am PST

Summary: Everyone seems to think that Microsoft must rush to release a credible competitor to Apple’s iPad. I beg to differ. Getting it right is more important than getting it tomorrow.

Apple released it’s financial results on Tuesday, and they were nothing short of spectacular. Apple is making money hand-over-fist across product categories, though particular attention was paid, not surprisingly, to the new iPad. They managed to shift 7.33 million units last quarter, an incredible number when you put them in the context that Henry Blodget did over at Business Insider. Apple’s iPad now accounts for approximately 7% of global PC shipments, assuming a ship rate of 100 million per quarter.

Cannibalization is already taking place (though it seems to be hitting Macs hardest, not surprisingly), and the netbook market is being eaten whole by tablet computers. That might explain former netbook leader Acer’s new-found interest in the tablet form factor.

Netbooks turned out to be less of a threat to Microsoft than was originally thought, as most ended up running some variant of Windows, even if it was usually the lower cost Windows XP. Its tablet replacement, however, is in a different platform universe. iPad, based on Mac OS X, still accounts for over 90% of the market for tablets (not surprisingly, as they ignited the craze with the rollout of the iPad), and Linux-based Android doesn’t give Microsoft much love.

It’s understandable, then, for everyone to be screaming for Microsoft to release a tablet challenger. They were knocked at CES for offering little more than plans to bring Windows to low-power ARM processors, a shift that is only likely to materialize in 2012. According to Peter Bright at Ars Technica, fixating on power consumption is spectacularly besides the point, as Microsoft’s real problem in the tablet space isn’t short battery life but the lack of a user interface expressly designed for touch.

Clearly, the newly resurgent tablet space should be cause for concern in Redmond. Panic, however, can be more destructive than delay, especially if it wastes resources that could have been used more effectively elsewhere. That’s why I still think Microsoft should wait a bit before fielding a true competitor to the iPad.

Don’t get me wrong…I think it’s absolutely critical that Microsoft field something in the not-too-distant future. I just think that getting it right is more important than getting it tomorrow. Perhaps my perspective is somewhat tailored by fire season in Los Angeles. When there are multiple fires with which to contend, sometimes you have to pick your battles, even if it leaves a few expensive houses in the hills a bit crispy.

I still think Microsoft’s first priority in portable devices should be to get its mobile phone house in order. Microsoft has an uphill battle to fight in mobile phones, afflicted as they were by the “early entrant” curse that has hit all incumbent mobile phone vendors. Nokia, RIM, Ericsson and Motorola are all hurting, whereas the new market leaders, such as HTC, Samsung and Apple were almost non-existent in the space a mere seven years ago. The lessons learned from those early days simply don’t apply today.  The iPhone inflection point has had the market effect of a hydrogen bomb.

Clearly, the sales numbers for its “strategic reset,” the new Windows Phone 7 (WP7) platform, aren’t where Microsoft needs them to be, as they’d be crowing about them the way they did about Kinect at CES. Or, maybe they aren’t as bad as information-starved journalists imagine while floating in their pundit isolation chambers. Amazon still doesn’t release real numbers on Kindle, even though most estimates claim it is selling well. The HTC HD7 is in short supply at the stores in my area, though the cause is anyone’s guess.

To be fair, though, I don’t think Microsoft has promoted WP7 as much as it should. Maybe they have lots of TV commercials (I don’t know, all my TV is on-demand and streamed over the Internet), but when I think of BIG promotional campaign, I think of what Apple has done in Los Angeles. You can’t throw a rock in this town without hitting an ad for an Apple product.

WP7 is definitely the right direction for Microsoft to take. I have an HTC HD7 AND a Nexus S, something I’m sure to talk about more in some future blog. In my experience, the WP7 device is much easier - and more fun - to use.

But irrespective of the difficulties or possibilities, a key reason to focus on WP7 is how it informs future strategy. Apple found the path to a sensible touch UI by way of building portable devices, starting with iPod, moving into phones, and blasting through the surface in a shower of money with the iPad. Microsoft followed some of that trajectory with WP7 (albeit with less financial success), as the Metro UI originated with concepts developed for its Zune media player. I think Microsoft’s strategy in tablets will depend on doing something sensible in mobile.

Sun’s barrier with client-side Java was that they didn’t understand the client as well as the server. The same dynamic applies to portable devices, and in particular, phones. There’s a lot more pressure to achieve a simple user interface in phones. Besides screen size, which of necessity are small enough to fit comfortably in one’s hand, users carry their phone with them everywhere to a degree they won’t with a tablet computer (well, unless you have a jacket with very big pockets). This creates learning opportunities that simply don’t exist for any other type of mobile device.

For a company that hopes to continue its important role in client computing, having a credible stake of the smartphone market is absolutely critical. No other device will be used as often as a smartphone. Many of Microsoft current web service offerings, including the “Live” family of products (which are tightly integrated with WP7) and the Bing search engine, will depend on a strong showing in phones, particularly as Google uses Android as a trojan horse by which to encourage linkage to their own web service offerings.

The Windows ARM strategy, by itself, isn’t much of a near-term competitor to iPad. It does signify, though, that the company is serious about unifying their fragmented client operating system story. Combined with hints that Microsoft wants to make the Metro interface a built-in shell on Windows 8, it appears Microsoft believes believes they can create a common core that can be shared across desktops and devices.

Some might find that “Windows everywhere” strategy to be so 1990s. It’s worth pointing out, though, that it’s the same strategy followed by its competition. Apple has extended a modified version of Mac OS X across form factors, and Google pushes Linux (by way of Android) from its backend through to mobile phones. The consistency advantages has a lot to recommend it, particularly given the massive base of products that work with desktop Windows.

Regarding the numbers, Blodget thinks that iPad could be 25% of the market for PCs in a few years (though how much of that 25% are new computer users remains to be seen; it doesn’t have to consist only of cannibalization of existing sales, in other words). That’s clearly a threat, though even on Blodget’s numbers, 75% is still a significant beachhead from which to launch a counterattack. Such a counterattack, if done properly, would have the advantage of seamless interoperability with a large base of Windows-based computers, while bringing with it some of the real advantages of PCs…without the complexity.

In other words, Microsoft NEEDS to avoid the impulse to rush a product to market due to very real threats on the horizon (as they did, I think, with the KIN) and take the time to get it right. There is obviously danger from the “network effects” that are building up around iPad. I can’t open a magazine without finding ads touting a new custom application for an iPad. On the other hand, Windows brings with it rather sizable network effects (and will even in Blodget’s “several years”), provided they direct it properly.

Microsoft needs to make a tablet solution that is truly different than what is on offer from competition that will only be more formidable in a year’s time. They have done it with WP7, in my opinion. Now they have to figure out a way to communicate that effectively. Microsoft should focus on the huge job they have ahead of them in phones, and give themselves time to figure out how to make the other areas of its business feed into a really compelling tablet form factor that is notable as more than just a competitor to iPad.

[ADDED Jan 21, 2011] I’ve had a couple of people ask what “synergies” desktop Windows has with Tablets (which is paraphrasing, as the actual question was posed as if I was stark raving mad).  What I’d REALLY like is a Windows tablet with a “real” touch UI (as opposed to one that shows the Windows desktop and let’s you try to use it with a finger), plus the ability to dock it so that I can attach a full-width monitor, keyboard and mouse and treat it like a desktop computer.  Basically, it’s still a Windows PC, but a new shell gives you a proper touch environment.

Obviously, apps would have to be written to use that new shell, and many of the applications that you might use while docked (like Visual Studio) simply wouldn’t be available while in “tablet” mode (I do NOT want a touch version of Visual Studio).

I’d love if something similar could happen with a Windows Phone as well.  In fact, perhaps that’s what Microsoft is trying to do with the move to ARM processors.  They plan to make a unified Windows platform that will serve as the baseline for all their products.  That’s bad news for the Windows CE team, but good news for everyone else.

Kick off your day with ZDNet's daily e-mail newsletter. It's the freshest tech news and opinion, served hot. Get it.

Topics

John Carroll has delivered his opinion on ZDNet since the last millennium. Since May 2008, he is no longer a Microsoft employee. He is currently working at a unified messaging-related startup.

Disclosure

John Carroll

http://blogs.zdnet.com/carroll/?p=1412

Biography

John Carroll

John Carroll has programmed in a wide variety of computing domains, including servers, client PCs, mobile phones and even mainframes. His current specialties are C#, .NET, Java, WIN32/COM and C++, and he has applied those skills in everything from distributed web-based systems to embedded devices. In his spare time, he enjoys the world of digital video, and served as director of photography and editor on a feature-length film produced in Limerick, Ireland, as well as a low-budget production filmed in Los Angeles that used Panavision digital cameras (the same ones used by George Lucas in the later Star Wars episodes).

John worked in Microsoft's Mediaroom division from May, 2005 to May, 2008. He is co-founder of ForgetMeNot Software, a creator of unified messaging software targeted at telecommunications providers, where he currently works as Director of Technology.

157
Comments

Join the conversation!

Just In

RE: Avoiding an iPad-induced panic
kollywolly Updated - 21st Feb
@doctorSpoc ok i wiill good!
Lovely presented post, furthermore extremely handy hints. In order to understand extra material on that subject, you'll be able to drop in on http://france-pharma.com/
Latifa
0 Votes
+ -
"Cannibalization is already taking place (though seems to be hitting Macs hardest, not surprisingly),"

hitting Macs hardest?
did you read the Q1 financials. Mac growth was 23% or 8 times PC growth.

ZDnet Adrian Hughes "4.13 million Macs sold, a 23% unit increase over the year-ago quarter (nearly 8 times the IDC numbers for PC growth)."

Also if Msft sells tablet OS like WinMo at around 15 bucks a pop (can't really charge more as Android is Free):
1 million iPads gives Apple roughly (asp $600 approx) $600 million
1 million WP7 (or whatever tablet OS) gives Msft 15 million.
0 Votes
+ -
Yeah, I gave up at that line too.
matthew_maurice 20th Jan 2011
@Davewrite Funny how he just threw that subjective parenthetical out there with nothing about how he arrived at that conclusion.
0 Votes
+ -
left me scratching my head too..
doctorSpoc 20th Jan 2011
@Davewrite ..makes absolutely no sense to me too.. who knows.. iPads could very well be being cannibalized by iPad.. but you wouldn't know to what extent because of the rate Mac are eating into PCs.. any way you slice it PC are being hit more that Mac since they are getting eaten on both sides.. by Macs and iPads
0 Votes
+ -
RE: Avoiding an iPad-induced panic
kollywolly Updated - 21st Feb
@doctorSpoc ok i wiill good!
Lovely presented post, furthermore extremely handy hints. In order to understand extra material on that subject, you'll be able to drop in on http://france-pharma.com/
Latifa
0 Votes
+ -
RE: Avoiding an iPad-induced panic
dave95. 20th Jan 2011
@Davewrite

Think with such a mistake, panic is already setting in. happy
0 Votes
+ -
@Davewrite You do know that 3.1% PC growth accounted for 93.48 million units of PC vs. 23% of 4.13 million units of Mac, right?

93.48 million of PC vs 4.13 million of Mac... *obviously* PC is doomed!
0 Votes
+ -
@Samic
We just have to remind them that the Windows Phone 7 marketplace is growing at a percentage that is FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR bigger than Apple's application storefront. Therefore, WP7 marketplace is better. happy happy happy
0 Votes
+ -
I don't really get your numbers.
Davewrite Updated - 20th Jan 2011
@Samic

"You do know that 3.1% PC growth accounted for 93.48 million units of PC vs. 23% of 4.13 million units of Mac, right?"

92 million is the estimated total of all PCs sold, 93m is not 3% as your sentence suggests. 93m should be compared to 4.13 million macs not 23% of it. Also that 92 million I think includes macs (because IDC counts macs as personal computers: PCs), so PCs alone is 88 million.

(IPads sold 7 million plus which is another 7% of PC totals. Note PC tablets are counted in PC totals but NOT iPads)

IDC "industry vendors shipped about 346 million PCs last yearincluding a record 92 million units in the fourth quarter"

Also I was replying to the comment that iPad was cannibalizing Macs more than PCs. GROWTH is more an indication of cannibalization than raw numbers.

IDC "Growth steadily slowed throughout 2010 as weakening demand and competition from the Apple iPad constrained PC shipments,"
So is IDC wrong as well?


I laugh when PC lovers quote PC sales.. that's EXACTLY Microsoft's executives thinking. When iPhone came out and made Apple billions all Balmer did was basically say 'who cares. We outsell Macs by xxx percent". Then they sit back and .. RELAX while Apple laps them.

Q1 Apple made 27 billion revenue with 6 billion net.
In Oct 2010 quarter Msft made 16 b revenue with 5.4 b net (no figures for Msft Christmas quarter yet).
Apple market cap: 312 b Msft 243 b.
Msft stock has basically frozen for 10 years, aapl has grown 4000%. To be beaten by apple which was at the brink of death 15 years ago.

Go on Msft fans and Msft execs keep trotting out PC sales numbers keep laughing at Apple and watch Apple eat your lunch.

0 Votes
+ -
@davewrite
NonZealot 20th Jan 2011
Go on Msft fans and Msft execs keep trotting out PC sales numbers keep laughing at Apple and watch Apple eat your lunch.

Actually, you are the only one who consistently comes out here and laughs at PC sales numbers.

Regardless though, anyone who discounts Windows PC sales or iPad sales is obviously delusional. They are both doing remarkably well and earn their respective companies billions of dollars of profit. Why Apple earning billions of dollars of profit makes you so happy or proud is beyond me though. Congratulations on loving the multi-national, multi-billion $$$/year mega-corporation that contracts out the assembly of the bulk consumers goods that you happen to purchase to the lowest Chinese bidder. happy happy happy
NZ

"Why Apple earning billions of dollars of profit makes you so happy or proud is beyond me though"

I guess making over $150,000 in profit in aapl in the last two years of recession sort of makes me happy...

sold all my msft stock 10 years ago. Stopped buying Google when Android came out and compared it to iOS : aapl about tripled since then, Google about 25% (and still under it's all time high). I've explained Apple finances over and over again but I've been called idiot, fanboy... lol.
0 Votes
+ -
That's a fair answer
NonZealot 20th Jan 2011
I guess making over $150,000 in profit in aapl in the last two years of recession sort of makes me happy...

Although you do realize that anyone can invest in Apple.

For someone who only cares about his AAPL shares though, you do seem to take a lot of pleasure in MS's missteps. Of course, that would easily be explained by the fact that you care about a lot more than just the profit from your AAPL shares. happy
0 Votes
+ -
NonZealot. I do find it "funny"
John Zern 20th Jan 2011
That all the pro Apple/anti-MS people here who costently trott out Apple's stock price at every chance (OK, maybe just davewrite) allways say the same thing "I sold all my MS stock [eneter number here] years ago, and..."

For one, I'm absolutelly amazed how they knew so much more then professional stock traders did/do, to see that way before anyone else.

They never said boo about stocks 2 or 3 years ago, yet today they're all here telling us how much they made (150, 000? Thats all?) in the past two years, because they knew what the world would be like in 10 years, something no-one else in the tech sector could have possibly predicted!

I'm not saying they're lying, I am just saying how amazed I am at their finacial prowess. (Imagine the finacial experts that bought Google at 730 a share still waiting to get their money back!)

I say more power to them, but they should have done like I did, just kept both the MS and Apple stock, and they would have been even better off today then they are now.

Unless of course 10 years ago they foresaw the future, and sold off all their MS stock and bought Apple stock with the profits, which is what i figured davewrite did. wink
0 Votes
+ -
RE: Avoiding an iPad-induced panic
nickdangerthirdi@... 20th Jan 2011
@Samic OHHHH NOOOOOOOO I was wondering when someone would point out the numbers and not the percentages.... when you only sell 100 of something then selling 123 is a 23% increase, and 98.5% of all statistics are made up on the spot...
0 Votes
+ -
RE: Avoiding an iPad-induced panic
Gis Bun 20th Jan 2011
@Samic : Yup. Davewrite is comparing apples [errr] and oranges. Looks like anotherone brainwashed by Apple.
0 Votes
+ -
AAPL stock
RationalGuy 22nd Jan 2011
@John Zern

For one, I'm absolutelly amazed how they knew so much more then professional stock traders did/do, to see that way before anyone else.

In Jan 2009 AAPL was trading below $80/share, for absolutely no good reason. The economy was not doing well and Steve Jobs announced his first medical leave. It was a perfect storm of stupidity as the so-called experts declared:

1.) With the economy doing so poorly, nobody will buy Apple stuff anymore because it's too expensive.

2.) With Steve Jobs being sick, Apple was doomed to fail because Apple is Steve Jobs.

These prognostications seemed convincing enough to dumb people that it sent them into a panic and they sold. Smart people realized that both of these things were utterly stupid and bought low. It's really simple.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: Avoiding an iPad-induced panic
CarlosViscarra Updated - 23rd Jan 2011
@Samic
To non-zealot.... You are a truly ignorant individual. How people like you can dress down Apples success is beyond me.



Don't smoke crack! Its bad for you!!!
0 Votes
+ -
RE: Avoiding an iPad-induced panic
John Carroll Updated - 20th Jan 2011
@Davewrite See my response below. The link that was in my version didn't make it's way onto the blog (looks like I mistyped the raw anchor tag). It's now there. In the response below, I also reference another article (which wasn't previously linked) discussing Apple's financial results.
0 Votes
+ -
I was scratching my head at
John Zern 20th Jan 2011
@Davewrite
Apple?s iPad now accounts for approximately 7% of global PC shipments, assuming a ship rate of 100 million per quarter.

How many iPads are in addition to PC's?
In other words, how many iPad owners also own a computer? 100% of them?.

It would be interesting to see how many non-computer owners actually bought an iPad, because information like that would more valuable then just numbers on PC/Mac?Tablet sales

I'm also curious as to what your comparison was all about: If you're trying to tell us that Apple sells you their hardware and software, while MS just sell you the software, because we know that already. But then wouldn't that mean MS makes more profit, because they don't have to payoff componenet and manufacturing costs to the level a hardware manufacture incures?
0 Votes
+ -
RE: Avoiding an iPad-induced panic
nickdangerthirdi@... 20th Jan 2011
@John Zern not when you overcharge for you hardware, a macbook runs you around $1000, a laptop "PC" of the same spec around $500, I'll take the PC everytime, (I would wipe out windows, and install linux, but thats merely personal preference). I am probably gonna get bashed for this, but apples HW isnt really all that great, at least not for the people who ask me to replace parts on them, and its certainly not worth twice as much as say Toshiba, HP, or Dell.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: Avoiding an iPad-induced panic
2drinks 20th Jan 2011
@John Zern I'm not even sure if it's possible to own an iPad without owning a PC or Mac. The first thing the iPad makes you do when you turn it on is plug it into a computer running iTunes to activate it (which is just brain dead stupid). I love my iPad, but Apple needs to figure out that requiring you to tether mobile devices to a computer running iTunes is the height of stupidity. Who knows how many people might make a complete switch to iPad in lieu of owning any other computing devices if they eliminated this requirement? It might be one reason Android tablets really take off once Honeycomb becomes available.
0 Votes
+ -
dudes
Davewrite Updated - 20th Jan 2011
@John Zern @Gis bun

look at my original post at the top of the thread : I only mentioned that Apple Macs had 23% growth which is 8 times the PC growth rate which to me implies the iPad is not cannibalizing Macs as much as windows PCs which as this article stated: "though it (cannibalizing) seems to be hitting Macs hardest, not surprisingly".

It was samic who sort of laughed bringing in a different thing about total units implying how sad Apple is shipping so few computers even though it has higher growth rate. I just pointed out instead of Apple losing Apple is making lots of money. And I pointed out Samic's numbers are off.

As for "But then wouldn't that mean MS makes more profit, because they don't have to payoff componenet and manufacturing costs to the level a hardware manufacture incures?"

did you notice i gave actual numbers of net profit and revenues in one of my posts. Q1 apple made 6 billion net, Msft made 5.4 b net in October (I also noted to be fair Msft has not announced their Christmas quarter yet -- which might be higher). You are right Msft's margins are way higher than Apple (talk about overpriced Windows), Apple made 6b out of 26b plus and Msft made 5.4b out of 16b.

As for John's first question on iPad/PC numbers I'm not sure what the question is asking.

IDC estimates last quarter PC shipments worldwide was 92 million. Apple says in Q1 (which might not be exactly the same months IDC is talking about) Apple shipped 4 m or so Macs and 7 m iPads.

How many bought iPad and PCs or Macs?
I don't know unless Changewave or somebody does a poll.
I believe Apple mentioned that sometimes people buying iPad also bought a mac or they decided to buy a Mac (like a Macbook Air) instead of the imac.

Total market share to an investor is only relevant in the sense that market share supports developers. If market share drops to a certain extent developers dry up and the OS dies. For PROFITS Apple's 5% worldwide market share in PCs (in Macs) already in 2009 stats gives them 35% of PC profits in the world as Apple does not deal in low end products like netbooks. From a profit standpoint Macs are a money making machine. Every small market share gain gives a disproportionate profit to Apple.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: Avoiding an iPad-induced panic
Rich Miles 21st Jan 2011
@davewrite
In the same post you manage to admonish Microsoft for making profit and praise Apple for doing the exact same thing.

"You are right Msft's margins are way higher than Apple (talk about overpriced Windows)"

"For PROFITS Apple's 5% worldwide market share in PCs (in Macs) already in 2009 stats gives them 35% of PC profits in the world as Apple does not deal in low end products like netbooks. From a profit standpoint Macs are a money making machine. Every small market share gain gives a disproportionate profit to Apple."

The problem I have with fanboys of all flavors is the lack of consistency. I look forward to any convoluted logic explaining how Microsoft gouges its customers but Apple does not.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: Avoiding an iPad-induced panic
DannyO_0x98 Updated - 20th Jan 2011
@Davewrite
He linked to a Betanews article which quotes an analyst's estimate of Mac units sold in 2010-4Q. It was written January 12, 2011, a full week before the numbers came out.

The analyst, who showed a year to year decline, guessed wrong.

Time to brew a new cup of tea, Johnny Analyst, those leaves ain't working.

Mac sales exceeded 4 million units per quarter for the first time in the company's history.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: Avoiding an iPad-induced panic
Gis Bun 20th Jan 2011
@Davewrite : I guess you didn't site back and REALLY looked at the sales percentage.

For example:
If you have 1,000 pencils and have an increase of 25% in sales, you end up with 1250 pencils.
Now if you have 10,000 pencils and have an increase of 10% in sales, you end up with 11,000 pencils.
So who's the winner? The first one with a 25% increase and 250 pencils extra or the second one with a 10% increase and 1,000 pencils extra?

Hughes-Kingsley has a reputation to analyze news in the most laughable ways. Fewer and fewer believe what he says.

Oh and how do you know what Microsoft charge the OEMs for WQP7? Got inside infotmation. Proof?
0 Votes
+ -
The other thing that Davewrite ignores
NonZealot 20th Jan 2011
@Gis Bun
Oh and how do you know what Microsoft charge the OEMs for WQP7? Got inside infotmation. Proof?

Of course he doesn't. He is guessing.

Even worse, he ignores the fact that WP7 is part of an MS ecosystem that includes Windows Server, Exchange, SharePoint, Bing, Zune, Xbox, etc. Ask Apple how much money they make from giving away iTunes for PCs and if his answer is $0 then we can all have a good laugh at his expense. happy Apple makes a TON of money from giving away iTunes on Windows since iPod was an epic fail until iTunes was ported to Windows.
  • Flagged
0 Votes
+ -
@ Gis Bun @NZ: GADS...
Davewrite Updated - 20th Jan 2011
@Gis Bun

"Oh and how do you know what Microsoft charge the OEMs for WQP7? Got inside infotmation. Proof?"

That's based on the reasonable assumption that WP7 will be close to Win Mo license price (will they charge MORE when Android is free?)

CNET : "Microsoft charges $8 to $15 per phone, according to research firm Strategy Analytics"

Electronista "Microsoft receives approximately $8 to $15 for each Windows Mobile-based phone sold."

Windows Phone Power User : "multiples of the $8-15 a Windows Mobile license"

you know guys that's a thing called Google or Bing that you can check this thing out.

even if my assumption that WP7 is at the high end of WinMo pricing is off, how much more can they charge as android is free? If they charge say 20 then:
1 million WP7 licenses gives msft 20 m bucks
1 m iPads still gives Apple 600 m

and those sale percentages: what the heck are you talking about. I specifically mentioned in one of my posts -mabye below - that Macs with a higher growth rate might sell less units than a PCs with a lower growth rate. I just mentioned Macs 8 times PC growth rate to disabuse the idea that iPad were cannibalizing macs more than PCs : rate of growth not total units sold in my opinion shows cannibalizing more.
@Gis Bun ....the 250 will yield more than the 1000.. and this IS the case with Apple.. Apple has about 7% market share in the world PC sales and yet yield a 35% profit share.. that's the mistake people keep making.. market share is only significant if you can garner profit at the market share.. if you drop you margins too low (think netbook).. your not making any money anyways.. chasing market share without thought to margins is a fools game.. just look at GM two quarter before the filed for chapter 11 (got passed by Toyota) the where the market share leader.. how did being market share leader work out for them.. market share is only relevant if you have sufficiently high margins to make a real money from it.. Apple makes more profit from than any PC manufacture in the world.. that's what matters..
0 Votes
+ -
RE: Avoiding an iPad-induced panic
The Danger is Microsoft 23rd Jan 2011
@Gis Bun - Uh...analysts and the stock market and the investors ALL say the one who gains 25% year-over-year is MUCH better than the one who gains 10% year-over-year. The point is to show GROWTH, not simply maintaining.

Maybe one day it will change but for now and in the near future GROWTH is what makes a company successful. Microsoft is stagnant hence why investors don't make money and why they are not investing.

True, Microsoft may not need new investors, or care. But existing investors still want to make money and will eventually dump the stock if they don't get the annual returns they expect!
0 Votes
+ -
@Davewrite ... especially considering that, with less than 10% of units world-wide a 23% increase represents a 2.3% increase in total units compared to Microsoft's 90% of units world-wide, a 3% increase (about one-eighth of 23%) for Microsoft, still represents a 2.7% increase in total units sold in 2010. 2.7% of a billion units is still larger than 2.3% of 0f 100 million units.

I'd bet that most of that Macintosh growth is pent-up demand as the recovery proceeds. Windows PC's come in at a much lower price-point so there is less pent-up demand as the recovery progresses.

At $499, the iPad is the least-expensive device in the Apple line-up that can deliver browsing and full multimedia capability in a portable, but easily-readable, form-factor. What it comes down too is that loyal Macintosh customers opted to get an iPad during 2010 instead of buying a new MacBook.
@mwagner@... MS sells and OS not PCs.. MS doesn't compete directly with Apple.. Apple competes with HP, Dell, Toshiba, Lenovo, Acer, Asus etc what the hell are you talking about?? seriously.. your post makes absolutely no sense whatsoever..

taking that into account your whole post is complete.. MacBook Pros and MacBook Airs where the biggest sellers and ALL Mac growth is sales is up 23% so that meant he MacBook Pros and MacBook Airs must have grown even more than that.. you post like Johns doesn't make any sense.. more people than ever in the history of the company.. NOT less opted to buy Macs this year.. please get a clue..
0 Votes
+ -
He is an ex-Microsoft employee......
linux for me 28th Jan 2011
@Davewrite

So really, that statement is not a real surprise. Absolutely not true, but not a surprise.
0 Votes
+ -
@Davewrite : just one petite error.

Your $600 million number on Apple's side is 'top-line' or revenue. Profit or 'bottom-line' would be 100 or so.

On the other hand, Microsoft $15 million are almost entirely 'bottom-line' 'cause they are licenses which inquire in almost no cost.

The problem's not really that one. The problem's is investment sake. MS has invested $1+ billion in WP7 with no marginal return at this moment. Apple, on the contrary, did a stepwise refinement with enough profit on the interim (from hardware sales, media sales and now, app sales) to be able to sustain iPad release.
0 Votes
+ -
the pc market is cannibalized...
banned from zdnet 20th Jan 2011
... not the mac. listen again to what tim cook said at the conference call and don't make things up out of thin air.

as dave wrote mac is growing at 8 times the industry rate so no, clearly, the ipad is not cannibalizing mac sales but rather pc sales.
0 Votes
+ -
Not necessarily ...
mwagner@... 21st Jan 2011
@banned from zdnet ... because:

(1) the iPad was unique when introduced (unless you want to compare it to the iPod Touch or the iPhone) and no one has a better integrated music/video service and app store than Apple,

(2) the iPad REQUIRES the buyer to already own a PC or a Macintosh for synchronization (and since Apple enjoys less than 10% market-share, most are probably PC's), so the buyer chooses between upgrading their Mac/PC or buying an iPad.

(3) people who are in the market for a $999 MacBook would otherwise be spending $1000 on a PC - or buying a $499 iPad, and

(4) people interested in a PC are likely to choose between a $350 netbook, a $500 notebook, or a $499 iPad.

Looking at Apple's product line, they like to fill in price-points ...

iPod shuffle, iPhone 3GS ($50),
AppleTV ($100),
iPod nano ($150),
iPhone 4 ($200+),
iPod touch ($230+),
iPod classic ($250),
iPad ($500+),
iPad 3G ($630+),
Mac mini ($700+),
MacBook ($1000+),
iMac ($1200+),
and FINALLY Mac Pro ($2500+).

Apple wants to have a product at every price-point in order to get both Mac and PC user's to "buy-in" to their ecosystem.

All-in-all, brilliant marketing - but nothing Apple does really threatens Micrsosoft's domination of the market place.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: Avoiding an iPad-induced panic
The Danger is Microsoft 23rd Jan 2011
@mwagner@... I am so sick of the 'you HAVE to have a PC or Mac". NO YOU DON'T. If you DO have one you can sync it but there is NO requirement to sync. You can get all your apps, music, iOS updates, etc. DIRECTLY on the iPad. NO PC REQUIRED!

I got an iPad for my grandmother, at the Apple store. They initialized it for me free of charge. Granny has NO PC. She loves her iPad since it's soo easy for her to use and send email, browse the web, etc. Even Granpa uses it to read news and books (he's not into the Net much other than that).
0 Votes
+ -
Only problem is ...
MG537 20th Jan 2011
That Microsoft has been at it (the tablet market that is) since the early part of this century. They never got it right. Apple on the other hand, shifted direction of an entire industry and Google along with other hardware makers have followed in its slipstream.
Take another MS innovation as an example. Surface. They've been at it since when? What's the purpose of this large multitouch table? How can businesses benefit from it? What's the infrastructure needed to support such a device? It probably would've been better for them to keep this under wraps and released only when technology, infrastructure applications would be mature enough to support it.
strings attached. They have been forced to use Windows and x86 for tablets. That alone guaranteed failure.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: Avoiding an iPad-induced panic
nothingness 20th Jan 2011
@MG537 You Apple guys do realize that without Windows of any kind, the iPads and iPhones would not sell in nearly the numbers that they do, right? I am one of many, many people who own an iPhone and/or an iPad but only have Windows PC's at home.
0 Votes
+ -
@nothingness
But iPhones and iPads get people interested in Macs. It's called the Halo effect.
However my post wasn't about the percentage of iPhone/iPad users operating on Windows PC's but more about MS's lack of focus.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: Avoiding an iPad-induced panic
2drinks 20th Jan 2011
@nothingness How long will that last though? PCs are rapidly becoming more and more irrelevant to the non-technorati. I personally know more than a couple of people who have smartphones and/or tablets who barely touch their home computers any more. It reminds me of the movement in the last 20 years towards not having home phones. I was one of the first people I knew who ditched my home phone completely in lieu of a cell phone and when I would tell people that I didn't have a home phone they would be surprised. Now it's commonplace and landlines are disappearing faster than my hairline. I would be willing to bet we're going to see the same phenomenon with mobile devices.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: Avoiding an iPad-induced panic
desilvav 21st Jan 2011
@nothingness
and you realise that Windows was after Xerox, and after Apple?
0 Votes
+ -
Surface
John Zern Updated - 20th Jan 2011
What's the infrastructure needed to support such a device? It probably would've been better for them to keep this under wraps and released only when technology, infrastructure applications would be mature enough to support it

It is already, so what's your point, that it isn't? In what way?
0 Votes
+ -
@John Zern
I'll say to you the same thing I said to nothingness a little further up.
Lack of focus.
Don't get me wrong. Surface like tables may be in every business and every home in the future. My point was, without any real world applications or even infrastructure to support such a device, what is the point in releasing it? Besides MS runs a business, not a University research department. Going up on stage and making cute wavy patterns on the device, when touching it, does nothing to sell the product.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: Avoiding an iPad-induced panic
2drinks 20th Jan 2011
@MG537 Yes, but Microsoft has always been a follower, not a leader. Their whole schtick over the years has been to take someone else's product or idea and turn it into a mass market product via marketing savvy, leverage, and continuous improvements. It's happened over and over again: DOS, Windows, Office, MSN/Hotmail, SQL Server, etc. Microsoft didn't come up with any of those products originally. DOS was purchased, Windows was copying Apple's and Xerox's design, most of Office was purchased, Hotmail was purchased, SQL Server was purchased, etc., etc. If you ask me, Microsoft's biggest problem the last decade has been trying to break out of that mold and become the innovators. It hasn't worked for them. Practically every original product they've made from the ground up has been a failure: Windows CE/Mobile, tablet PCs, Surface, the Kin, etc. I think now that Apple is out in front, Microsoft has the opportunity to play monkey see, monkey do as they did back in their heyday. The biggest question is whether they can still execute on even that with Mr. "Developers Developers Developers" in charge.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: Avoiding an iPad-induced panic
mswift@... 21st Jan 2011
@2drinks
Name me a list of major corporations (other than possibly IBM and 3M) that actually innovate. Individuals and small companies bring ideas to large companies, large companies generally "innovate" via acquisition. When Apple or Microsoft hire someone for thier own R&D sections it is a safe bet that the person is already working in an area of interest the the big marketer. Big companies are marketing entities. Apple is one of the best marketing companies in the world. As far as tech is concerned, not so much.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: Avoiding an iPad-induced panic
prof123 22nd Jan 2011
@mswift "Name me a list of major corporations (other than possibly IBM and 3M) that actually innovate"

Google , Apple , Toyota, Amazon, LG, General Electric, Hewlett Packard, Nintendo, Virgin Group, Procter & Gamble, BYD, Samsung, Intel, etc...
0 Votes
+ -
RE: Avoiding an iPad-induced panic
The Danger is Microsoft 23rd Jan 2011
@mswift@... You have been READ!
0 Votes
+ -
Surface ...
mwagner@... 21st Jan 2011
@MG537 ... is a collaboration/presentation tool. It has many applications in the enterprise. The original TabletPC design was to be more like an "electronic clipboard" which was also a PC and a very powerful "tool". It simply didn't catch-on because it was more epxensive than a laptop - while the laptop/notebook is just as convenient in the board-room.

The iPad is something QUITE DIFFERENT. It is an "appliance", not a "tool". It does less than a netbook/notebook (which means it cannot replace a netbook/notebook) but it meets the needs of many consumers/road-warriors who don't want to carry a netbook/notebook/Macbook when they travel.

Microsoft definitely needs to address this "crossover market" but Microsoft understands that their bread-and-butter business is the enterprise (including OEMs). For consumers, it is that OEM price-point that keeps them buying PCs instead of Macbooks.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: Avoiding an iPad-induced panic
mswift@... 21st Jan 2011
Two drinks has it right. People who are basically on line users have no need for a computer. They really have no need for anything other than an internet enabled TV. That may take another couple of years to sink in. I remember my road warrior days when I was happy to be able to handle email from the TV on my hotel room. That was before browsing had anything to do with computing.
0 Votes
+ -
Avoiding an iPad-induced panic
Loverock Davidson 20th Jan 2011
First 3 words say it all, "Avoiding an iPad". happy

Join the conversation!

Formatting +
BB Codes - Note: HTML is not supported in forums
  • [b] Bold [/b]
  • [i] Italic [/i]
  • [u] Underline [/u]
  • [s] Strikethrough [/s]
  • [q] "Quote" [/q]
  • [ol][*] 1. Ordered List [/ol]
  • [ul][*] · Unordered List [/ul]
  • [pre] Preformat [/pre]
  • [quote] "Blockquote" [/quote]
ie8 fix
Click Here
ie8 fix

The best of ZDNet, delivered

ZDNet Newsletters

Get the best of ZDNet delivered straight to your inbox

Facebook Activity

White Papers, Webcasts, & Resources
ie8 fix
ie8 fix