Laptops & Desktops

John Morris & Sean Portnoy

A closer look at laptops with AMD's Fusion processor, part II

By | April 22, 2011, 2:39pm PDT

Summary: In a post yesterday, I took a look at ultraportables based on AMD’s low-power Fusion processors. In this second part, I’ll cover some of the bigger laptops from Acer, Gateway and Toshiba that have co-opted this chip.

In a post yesterday, I took a look at a netbook and some ultraportable laptops based on AMD’s low-power Fusion processors. In this second part, I’ll cover some of the bigger, mainstream laptops that have co-opted this chip including the Acer Aspire 5253, Gateway NV51B Series and Toshiba Satellite C650.

These first Fusion chips were never designed for 15-inch laptops. Rather the C-Series and E-Series are low-power APUs designed for netbooks and ultra-thin laptops. (AMD refers to its Fusion processors, which combine a multi-core CPU with Radeon graphics on a single chip, as Accelerated Processing Units.)

AMD has another Fusion APU, the A-Series (code-named Llano) that promises better performance, but it is late and probably won’t show up in systems until June. Meanwhile Intel has rolled out its own processor with on-die graphics, known as Sandy Bridge, but even the least expensive version, the Core i3-2100T, lists for well over $100. So to fill in the gap and push prices down, makers have turned to AMD’s C- and E-Series processors.

The phrase “good enough” computing has become conventional wisdom. Last week when it reported that PC sales have been slow so far this year, IDC said in a statement that “good enough computing has become a firm reality.” There’s some truth to this, but these E-Series laptops really stretch the definition of what constitutes good enough. The question is, have they pushed it too far?

Acer Aspire 5253
Gateway NV51B Series

While there are some cosmetic differences between the Acer Aspire 5253 and Gateway NV51B Series, you don’t have to look very closely to see that these mainstream laptops share the same design DNA. They also have similar specs including a 15.6-inch display (1366×768) and AMD’s 1.6GHz E-350 dual-core processor with Radeon HD 6310 graphics.

The Acer Aspire 5253 with AMD’s Fusion processors range from $345 to $500. The starting configuration, the AS5253-BZ660, has the 1.0GHz C-50 with Radeon HD 6250 graphics, 2GB of memory and a 320GB hard drive–the same sort of specs you’ll find in a 10-inch netbook such as the Aspire One 522. At the opposite extreme, the AS5253-BZ480 I tested is $499.99 with the E-350 with better graphics, 4GB of memory and a 320GB hard drive. Acer offers even cheaper versions of this 15-inch design, the Aspire 5252 with AMD’s V-Series, an older single-core processor, and more expensive models with faster AMD or Intel chips.

Similarly, the Gateway NV Series is available with a range of AMD and Intel processors. The model I tested, the NV51B05u, is $469.99 with the E-350 processor, 3GB of memory and a 500GB hard drive (here is CNET’s full review of this model). Oddly this isn’t the cheapest model in the NV Series. The NV50A02u, which is $449.99 with a 2.1GHz Phenom II N830 triple-core processor, 4GB of memory and a 500GB hard drive, should deliver much better performance at the expense of battery life.

No matter which brand or model you choose, the design is identical. Like all 15-inch laptops, the Aspire 5253 and Gateway NV51B won’t be mistaken for ultraportables, but at 1.3 inches thick and weighing 5.7 pounds they are still portable enough to travel back and forth between the dorm and library in a backpack. The size also has its advantages including a full-size keyboard with a numeric keypad, ample wrist-rests and a large multi-touch touchpad with separate buttons. The Gateway NV51B has a slightly different keyboard layout with a special key that launches a Social Networks applet to monitor Facebook, YouTube and Flickr accounts. It’s not revolutionary, but it’s a nice extra that it easy to set up and works as advertised.

Not surprisingly, the Aspire 5253 and Gateway NV51B posted nearly identical test scores (the extra 1GB of memory in the Acer didn’t seem to make much difference here). The scores were also very similar the ones on other laptops with the E-350, namely the HP Pavilion dm1z and Lenovo ThinkPad X120e. In other words, they are faster than an Atom-based netbook but not in the same class as mainstream laptops with Intel Core-i3 dual-core processors.

For comparison, I tested another 15-inch laptop, the HP Pavilion dv6, with an Intel 2.13GHz Core i3-330M dual-core, 4GB of memory and a 500GB. A Monte Carlo simulation in Excel that took 22 seconds with the Pavilion dv6 required more than a minute on the Aspire 5253 and NV51B. The two Fusion systems also took more than twice as long to complete an image editing test in Google’s Picasa and to transcode MP3 files to the AAC format in iTunes. The Pavilion dv6 transcoded a video using Windows Movie Maker in 10 minutes 35 seconds; the Gateway NV51B took an additional 30 minutes to complete the same task (the Aspire 5253 failed to complete it for some reason).

That’s a big gap in performance, especially when you consider the Pavilion dv6 configuration I used is more than a year old. I’ve also run some tests on a laptop with a new Sandy Bridge dual-core and it widens the gap even further–though AMD will eventually answer with its Llano APU.

The good news is that Aspire 5253 and Gateway NV51B perform well on battery life tests–at least as far as 15-inch laptops go. On a torture test of continuous Web browsing with the display set to maximum brightness, they held out for 2 hours 40 minutes; the Pavilion dv6 died right around 2 hours. The systems have a rated battery life of 4.7 hours-which is probably pushing it a bit–but I would expect to easily get three to four hours in normal use.

Toshiba Satellite C650
Like the Acer and Gateway, the Toshiba Satellite C650 is available with a range of both AMD and Intel processors–there are 28 different models in all starting at $349. The difference, however, is that if you choose the AMD E-Series processor, the Satellite C650 only offers the 1.5GHz E-240 single-core version.

The good news is this gave me a chance to see just how low computer makers can go on prices for a mainstream laptop. The bad news is it also gave me a chance to see just how low they can go in terms of performance. The model I tested, the Satellite C655D-S5130, is $398.99 direct with the E-240 processor, 3GB of memory and a 250GB hard drive (here is CNET’s take on this model).

At 1.5 inches thick, the Satellite C650 is slightly thicker than the other two systems I tested, but it weighs a bit less at 5.5 pounds. The Satellite C650 has a large keyboard with square keys placed closely together, a separate numeric keypad and a large multi-touch touchpad with separate buttons. My only reservation with the design is that the Satellite C650’s display flexed quite a bit and the thin back cover didn’t seem to offer much protection. The displays on the Aspire 5253 and Gateway NV51B felt stiffer and sturdier. All three systems have many of the same features including a multi-format DVD writer, two USB 2.0 ports, an SD card slot, VGA-out and Ethernet, but the Satellite C650 does not have HDMI for connecting to a TV.

On my tests, the Satellite C655D-S5130 was notably slower than even the other E-Series laptops. The Monte Carlo simulation in Excel took twice as long to complete as it did with the Aspire 5253 and Gateway NV51B. The audio transcoding test in iTunes that took nearly 15 minutes on those two systems required an additional 10 minutes to complete with the Satellite C655D-S5130. To get a better idea of just how slow the E-240 is, consider the scores compared to the Pavilion dv6 equipped with a 2.13GHz Core i3-330M dual-core processor. That system took 22 seconds to crunch the Monte Carlo simulation in Excel; the Satellite C655D-S5130 needed 2 minutes 23 seconds to complete the same simulation.

To be fair, Toshiba is clear to position the Satellite C655D-S5130 as a laptop for “real-life basics” and I didn’t run into any issues with basic productivity tasks. In addition because it has the same Radeon HD 6310M graphics, the Satellite C655D-S5130 can handle basic games, Web pages loaded with Adobe Flash content and HD video. It certainly did not feel fast, especially with multiple tabs open in a Web browser, but the Satellite C655D-S5130 can handle the basics.

Despite the slower, single-core processor, the Satellite C655D-S5130 didn’t offer much more much more battery life. Like the Acer Aspire 5253 and Gateway NV51B05u, it lasted around 2 hours 45 minutes on my test and would probably get close to four hours in normal usage (the rated battery life is six hours).

Of the three models I tested, I prefer the Gateway NV51B05u. I like the design best and at $469.99 it strikes the best balance of price, performance and features for a budget laptop. The Satellite C655D-S5130 costs even less, but the performance of AMD’s E-240 is simply too big a compromise.
At the opposite extreme, it doesn’t make much sense to spend $500 for the Acer Aspire 5253-BZ480 when you can get a 15-inch laptop with a faster Intel dual-core for a bit more. To be clear both the Satellite C650 and Acer Aspire can be configured with a range of other AMD or Intel processors too.

There’s a good case to be made for AMD’s E-Series in an ultra-thin laptop such as the HP Pavilion dm1z, but unless you are on a very tight budget it is not the best choice for a 15-inch notebook. Yes, the E-Series will squeeze more life out of a battery, but that’s not as big an issue with these larger laptops. And if you want to play games, you’ll still be better off with a laptop with discrete graphics. Instead I’d recommend a model with an AMD Turion II or Athlon II or an Intel Pentium P6200 or older Core i3, which you can find online for less than $500. The trend may be towards good enough computing, but it still needs to be good enough.

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John Morris is a former executive editor at CNET Networks and senior editor at PC Magazine.

Disclosure

John Morris

John Morris is a former executive editor at CNET Networks and senior editor at PC Magazine. He now works for a private investment firm, which may at any time invest in companies whose products are discussed in this blog, and no disclosure of securities transactions will be made. No investment advice is offered in this blog. All duties are disclaimed.

Biography

John Morris

John Morris is a former executive editor at CNET Networks and senior editor at PC Magazine. He now works for a private investment firm, which may at any time invest in companies whose products are discussed in this blog, and no disclosure of securities transactions will be made. No investment advice is offered in this blog. All duties are disclaimed.

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RE: A closer look at laptops with AMD's Fusion processor, part II
Tobruk 26th Apr 2011
I own the MSI A6500 (CR650) w/AMD E-350. I think other advantages besides longer battery life, less heat! My machine is light and very portable for being full sized.

My focus as a user has changed over the years. My computer needs are more geared towards social networking, communication and basic editing. I could of spent more for a higher power machine, but I didn't see the need to spend $500+, when for $379 I have a machine that is full sized, powerful for my needs and let's me walk around on battery power for 5hrs!
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Irrelevant tests
Economister 22nd Apr 2011
What percentage of ordinary laptop users run large Excel spreadsheets, edit graphics or trans-code audio/video files? Very low I presume.

It is always interesting to read hardware reviews by techies. They have such different needs and expectations than ordinary users, that their opinions are often totally irrelevant. If you wish to comment on "good enough", you have to understand the environment where "good enough" computing is truly good enough.

I think you totally missed the boat here, and the sales figures will bear that out.
@Economister
True enough, I have seen many people buy computers that are barely what they need (based on price) only to replace them a year, or two, later. As sad is it may sound computing is becoming a disposable commodity. THere will always be those that prefer a DLSR over a point and shoot camera; just as there will always be those that prefer a more powerful computer, over a cheap disposable one.
@Rick_K

Isn't it true that our purchase choices are either the "high end" product (for state-of-the-art performance and superior quality) or the "low cost" alternative product (whether that is a used product or a newer, cheaper model with inferior performance and/or quality)

I have to believe that all of us, at one time or another, have chosen products adhering to those criteria choices .. sometimes choosing the High End .. sometimes the Low End.

Personally, I tend to wait until I have sufficient financial resources available and then purchase the "high end" product knowing that it will "usually" retain its productivity longer over time. And, my best friend is just the opposite. He chooses the low cost item and doesn't mind replacing it's functionality with a newer "low cost" replacement when the need arises. (Usually far sooner than my products become obsolete.) But he's still my friend! Grin
@Economister That's the thing, I remember chasing the best Graphics performance money could buy when I was younger but since then I've mostly given up on games and instead learn things on the PC (like Java coding) and now these little laptops will work just fine.

See, the thing about the games, they're not always playable if the hardware doesn't measure up! With a Java class file, it will run on this hardware... It may take longer to compile and be a little bit slower running but it will run.
@Economister

Re: "What percentage of ordinary laptop users run large Excel spreadsheets, edit graphics or trans-code audio/video files?" And, I might add, perform these functions in a five hundred dollar price range?

The obvious answer is: if the hardware allows these functions, than the "ordinary laptop user" will utilize them.

But your comments to the contrary lead to a logical question. If "ordinary laptop users" DON'T run large spreadsheets, use Photoshop or any of the high end Adobe video editing tools (for example) than what DO they do with these products?

It would seem that tablets would suite this demographic just fine then.

And speaking of that, the "Apple Stork" left an iPad 2 on my doorstep this week. And you know what, among other things, I wanted to see if the A5 processor was up to running large Excel spreadsheets. (I went on record in various ZDNet blogs stating that the iPad 1 A4 SoC choked on medium to large Excel spreadsheets .. I think Mary Jo thanked me for my comments on that issue.)

Well, the A5 handles medium files just fine. (The Excel file import into Numbers went without a hitch and the scrolling and speed of calculations performed were quite acceptable. I haven't tried really large spreadsheets but they might not work. We will see) Word documents and Power Point Presentations were handled rather well by the first gen A4 chip so, IMO, the A5 chip can handle traditional MS Office Suite programs quite well.

Which means, of course, that both second generation iOS, Android tablets and, in a year or two, Win 8 tablets should be capable of handling those tasks easily .. tasks which you attribute to "ordinary laptop users".

Of course, there are hybrid designs which have detachable tablet sections already on the market which your demographic might choose instead.
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That is probably one reason why..
Economister Updated - 23rd Apr 2011
@kenosha7777

tablets are selling well. Unless you need/prefer a physical keyboard, tablets probably meet the needs of a lot a casual users.

On the issue of "good enough" performance, my son occasionally trans-codes multi-GB video files on a long-in-the-tooth Athlon 64X2. It can take many hours, but he starts the trans-coding before he goes to bed and by the time he wakes up, it is usually done. Even for the occasional heavy lifting, a low end system may do just fine. If he did it a lot, an 8 core monster would be justified.

Computers are like cars. How many people NEED 2-300HP? Very few. Half would be sufficient virtually all the time. If you lose a few seconds going up a long hill with a full load, does it really matter? The only thing you really get out of that extra power is your ego stroked.
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@Economister

I can identify with your son's trans-coding experiences. About four years ago, I was still using my PPC iMac G5 for my video work. (The software was stable and a joy to use but the hardware took "awhile" to transcode the video projects.) Like your son, I would retire for the evening and keep the "old gal" cooking the video during the night.

Then I moved up to a "Penryn" 2.13 GHz MacBook (dual monitor) setup for my trans-coding. That sped the process considerably. (I have since upgraded to a core i7 iMac but that is a different tale for another time.)

However, what really increased the speed of my trans-coding tasks was the added hardware assist from "elgato's Turbo .264 HD" device. That small USB "Flash storage sized" device really reduced the time required to encode MPEG video projects.

Is there some hardware assist device (like that Elgato unit) available for the PC ecosystem? If so, it might just help your son out.
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@Economister
So true.
With all this "TABLET" hysteria going on, one would think that the real importance of low-cost, low power, high graphics capable CPUs would be immediately obvious going forward.

The "surprise" popularity of Apple's IPad shows that there has been an untapped consumer need for lightweight, highly portable, graphics intensive computing devices.
The "Tablet" form factor has not been the only reason for the IPad's popularity.

So much technical genius at these hardware corps, and at understanding gadgets, but apparently not much insight into humans.

But Apple has reason to be a bit competitively scared about the next generation of low power CPU's, and light weight netbooks/tablets/netvertibles/tablet PCs (as well as the next form factor). Apple's strength is actually software and understanding user needs, not hardware. But the hardware advancements from the wider ecosystem will provide wider choices of devices that will appeal to consumers.
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Still the problem with PC makers
jscott418 25th Apr 2011
PC makers keep complaining about profits and yet they come out with these computers? Low priced and low performance. Yet they wonder why they can't make a buck? Even Apple's profits have suffered a bit due to the iPad. The trouble is people buy these cheap notebooks and then realize they don't do what they need them too or don't run as fast as they would like. Lack of most consumers to understand the hardware and base their buying decision on price alone is a bad thing. Yes, their is a market for these low powered low price notebooks. But just as Tablets have been over sold to the consumer. I think these too will be purchased by many who will not be happy with their choice.
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Message has been deleted.
xiaojiekgf Updated - 23rd Apr 2011
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I own one of these Acer C50 based models and it came with 4 Gigs of DDR3 RAM and a 250 Gig Drive. The machine runs Windows 7 better than any net book I have used and I cannot imagine any basic functionality that it doesn't handle well... I do believe this could handle just about any non-multimedia related office tasks without flinching.
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quick question
Joe_Raby 22nd Apr 2011
How does the Radeon 6310 in the E-series APU's stand up to the typical Radeon 4250 integrated video that comes with Athlon & Turion II's in graphics comparisons?

Also, you didn't test GPU accelerated applications for transcoding and the like.
@Joe_Raby The 6250 in my C50 model gets about a 6.1 to 6.3 on the Windows 3D gaming scale...

To put that into perspective, my GTS 450 is a 7.2 so I imagine these things would handle 3D just fine as long as the game offloaded the number crunching to the GPU.
@Peter Perry
My fusion E gets a 5.8 index on graphics. In practical terms, I can run starcraft II and warcraft but with details turned down. I can run a 1080p movie from beginning to end with no stuttering of any kind.
My old Pentium M notebook with 2GB of RAM from 2004 performs just as well as my newer HP with an i5 - I regret the purchase especially considering that the new machine only has 1366x768 resolution as opposed to my old machine with 1920x1200 !

In other words, a newer faster processor does not provide many advantages when it comes to functionality.

Seeing the longer battery life, I assume that the Fursion processor runs cooler and quieter. Much needed for using a computer!
@ingle They run extremely cool... I put mine on my blanket and the fan never seems to come on nor does the laptop overheat... I bet these machines last a long time!
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fghjhbn Updated - 26th Apr 2011
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Good enough is hardly ever good enough
jscott418 25th Apr 2011
I think customer surveys consistently prove these "good enough" notebooks are not. If your expectations are low enough maybe. But most tend to under estimate what they need because price tends to steer their buying decision. I bought a Fusion based Notebook from Sony and although it is better then a Atom. I would never consider it for anymore then a travel companion for email and the occasional document creator. It still has a rather slow CPU and better graphics can't always fix this.
People should really take a closer look at the fusion E. I bought an HP dm1z about 2 months ago. It cost $399. I got a deal on a kingston 128gig SSD and slapped that on. My total cost for the machine was $550.

I am not even close to what you would call a casual user. I do a lot. On this machine I run windows 7 ultimate 64-bit. I run virtual machines (I run XP inside a virtual machine). I run visual studio 2010, office 2010, I VPN into my office, SQL server, I tether the laptop to my cell phone, I have multiple bluetooth devices attached to it, virtual desktop, virtual hard drive, expression, photo shop, starcraft 2, world of warcraft etc. About the only thing I haven't done is dual boot with ubuntu but I know its not an issue since others have done it.

ALL the software run perfectly fine. With wifi on, the machine lasts for close to 6 hours. Windows 7 boots up to the login screen within 15 seconds and another 5 seconds after login to be in windows in a working state.

If it passes my test, it can handle just about anyone's needs. If anyone thinks its not powerful enough I like to know what you are doing that demands so much.

Interestingly enough, a guy with a macbook air sat next to me yesterday. I had no idea dm1z looked so much like the air. Air is much thinner of course but side by side it doesn't feel like its tremendously thinner and of course the air cost $800 more than the dm1z.

Bottom line is these are great processors and these laptops are only the first generation of this line so I expect some crazy good laptops over the next few years.
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just ordered the same
ArtInvent 25th Apr 2011
@rengek - The value proposition of something like the HP dm1z is pretty incredible. I just ordered one for my wife, and it's good to know the thing performs like under the kind of load you describe. I may just try to run Ubuntu in a VM on that thing. Putting this chip in a bigger laptop might well be underkill, but certainly for a 12" ultraportable it seems like the perfect balance of power and battery life and graphics.
.
All of that functionality, a sharp looking machine, and quite a bit cheaper than a base iPad? I'd say Fusion hit the mark pretty solidly.
I own the MSI A6500 (CR650) w/AMD E-350. I think other advantages besides longer battery life, less heat! My machine is light and very portable for being full sized.

My focus as a user has changed over the years. My computer needs are more geared towards social networking, communication and basic editing. I could of spent more for a higher power machine, but I didn't see the need to spend $500+, when for $379 I have a machine that is full sized, powerful for my needs and let's me walk around on battery power for 5hrs!

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