We're still in a recession...Don't buy an Apple (the free iPod isn't worth it)
Summary: I own an Apple. It's a MacBook and it's about a year and a half old.
I own an Apple. It's a MacBook and it's about a year and a half old. The little 13" bit of polycarbonate has served me well and it's been a reliable companion. I bought it when I had a bit of extra money in a student loan while I was working on my masters degree. Since I had some extra cash and the loans were deferred anyway, I figured "What the heck?" Most people wouldn't argue that OS X does a nice job with multimedia and my kids still arm wrestle me (figuratively speaking) to use it when they want to edit video.
Guess what? Now I'm paying back those student loans, the economy remains in recession (I don't care what the Fed says about "signs of recovery" - the economy still stinks), and I'm paying three times what I have in years past for health care and medications. For those of you looking for back-to-school computing, this is not the year for an Apple. And the free iPod? Not worth it. Since everyone and their brother already has an MP3 player of some sort, the iPod is akin to a car dealer selling you undercoating or running boards for your new minivan.
I suppose I shouldn't compare a Mac to a minivan. Let me try that again. The free iPod is akin to a car dealer selling you undercoating or running boards for your new Lotus. You don't need undercoating since you won't drive it on slushy, salt-covered highways; you clearly don't need running boards for it; and you're still buying a bloody $60,000 car when a $13,000 Kia will get you to work quite handily every morning.
I read Sam Diaz' post with interest yesterday since he came to a similar conclusion but still ended up buying a Mac. Continuing my car analogy, though, he made a bold step for a geek (the moral equivalent of a motorhead) and went to a "used car lot" (Mac-Pro in the electronics wonderland of Silicon Valley). He found a used Lotus on the lot, skipped the undercoat and running boards, and scored himself a pretty good deal. Although the refurbished Mac he chose lacked the iPod, as Sam said, "[the free iPod] just felt like we'd be spending money today that we really didn't want to spend."
I understand this approach. I recently bought a very used, immaculately clean 2000 Volvo V70 for a great price. 130,000 highway miles from a single owner in Vermont and it looks like I must have a job in the private sector instead of public education. Unfortunately, it's in the repair shop after an accident, but it took a blow like a tank and should be good as new next week. For the same price, I could have purchased a much lower-mileage used Kia, but I fell in love with the Volvo and it protected my son and me well in that accident.
So what's my point with all these analogies lately? Well, with this particular analogy, it should be pretty clear: Macs are not cheap. Some people, like Sam, find a lot of value in them (so much that they would rather have a used Mac than a new HP). Most students, though, don't have Sam Diaz for a dad. Most students are going to swing out and buy something new and there aren't many reasons for that "something new" to be a Mac.
Sure, Apple dropped it's prices recently. So did Mercedes. You can now buy an entry-level 2010 E-class for just over $48,000 and a loaded model with a 5.5 Liter V8 is $5400 cheaper than last year's E550. I'm afraid that's still a little steep for my used-Volvo-buying middle-class budget.
And this is why my next PC, when I pass on the MacBook to replace the aging family computer, will be from some major OEM, purchased on sale at Best Buy (or wherever) and will meet my needs (and those of whichever family member gets it as a hand-me-down) just fine for the next three or four years.
Headed back to school? Rationalize purchasing a Mac in the talkbacks below when Windows 7 is just around the corner and Ubuntu is mature, stable, and more immune to malware than the increasingly-targeted OS X. Your reasons better not include the free iPod.
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Talkback
Very solid advice
Imagine
before buying a Toyota and perhaps buy a Kia, Hyundai, or even a Yugo
instead.
I have better advice
there are less costly alternatives available.
This "don't buy a Mac because my student loan payments are
high" is a stupid argument.
Then explain why.
Then explain why.
ARGH!
argument was true then "don't buy a computer" is even better advice!
So you NEED a computer as a student, right? (I'll assume you said
"yes") So you want a reliable system that will see you through your
course (what 3/4 years)? Isn't that about the limit of reasonable life
expectancy for a computer? (Yes it is) So does it REALLY make sense
to buy the cheapest that probably won't make that timeframe? (No,
REALLY?!) Forget Mac vs PC, does this make sense? Lets act like adults
and think about TCO and not listen to this idiot and it moronic "Mini-
van fixation".
So does a Mac make sense? Well that's all going to depend isn't it? Do
you have large amounts of software already that you want to run? Is
that Mac or Windows? Does some aspect of your course mean that one
will be more applicable than the other? (Remember Macs can run
Microsoft Office - natively) If you're doing something "creative" (new
media for example) then probably a Mac is simply "the right choice". If
you're doing something with lots of Windows software, it probably
isn't. MacBook Pros are wonderful machines, but don't make any sense
if you're running Windows more than 50% of the time one them.
For most courses either machine is OK, consider battery life this is
very important at University where you're likely to need to work for
extended periods away from mains power. Macs do well here, but if
you do want a PC you can get them with good battery life (you'll pay
more, but it's worth it). Also get something robust (again Unibody
Macs are excellent, but you can get robust PCs too). If you're doing
computer science, you probably want a Mac, the ability to run
Windows/Linux/Mac OS X on one system is a killer combination,
clearly if the course is all Windows this makes no sense (but you
might want to look for a better course!)
Whatever you decide, the cheapest probably isn't the right choice. Oh
and have a great time, it really is the best time of your life!
stupid argument?
That's what Chris probably thought, until the loans came due - that's what a LOT of people thought about spending and borrowing frivolously until reality set it. But go ahead, keep forking out the big bucks for a logo and a pretty case, the economy needs more fools.
you are right
U R write
cumpanties in humane his story: Appel
WOW, again!
I agree, it's a silly argument
That's more in line with the truth.
Still off center
the machine. I would never purchase the Gateway to be the center of my
music setup. I write and transpose my music, capture it straight from the
USB piano keyboard, mic my sax with it, and put it all together as I want.
I sure you could do this with a Gateway, but why attempt surgery with a
butter knife. Yes, it can be done, but boy is it painful!
If all you're going to do is surf the web, work email, post to Facebook,
and write a couple of papers here and there, then get a netbook for less
than $200. This is not rocket science, but then again if it was, you'd want
to use a Mac.
Point being
Probably not, I imagine a rocket scientist would use Linux.
Incorrect assuptions
compare
1. upfront price
(mac: maybe 20-30% more expensive than a comparable pc)
2. maintenance, service, support
pc: 40$ a year for good antivirus protection, expansive support hotlines
mac: no antivirus costs, free service at the genius bar
3. resale value (after 3-4 years)
pc: $0
mac: 25-30% of sticker price
4. misc
mac: high quality builds and materials (aluminium, glass), lots of
innovation (7-8 hours battery life, clickpad, multitouch, illuminated
keyboards, magsafe etc.), highest satisfaction ratings
so how is a mac more exoensive over its lifetime than a pc? ever heard of
total cost of ownership? buying a mac is the only reasonable decision for
anyone who can look beyond the sticker price.
Yes, let's compare...
1. upfront price
Gateway FX P-7805u 17" laptop with Core2Duo 320GB hard drive 4GB RAM NVidia 9800GTS graphics $1089.99 at BestBuy.com
MacBook Pro 17" laptop with Core2Duo 500GB hard drive 4GB RAM NVidia 9600GT graphics $2499.
Smaller hard drive on the Gateway but much faster graphics card.
Apparently you need a math class if you think that's a 20-30% difference in price. It costs more than twice as much.
2. maintenance, service, support
$40 for anti-virus for EITHER machine since the Mac is getting viruses all the time now - read the news
For the $1400 difference in price, you could buy TWO Gateways and have $300 left over to buy a 3 year on site warranty.
3. resale value
Gateway: There are 3 year old Gateway FX P-6860 laptops being sold right now for $700 on eBay. That's about 63% resale value, not 0.
MacBook Pro 17" Mostly seemed to be $1499 range. That's about 59% so it's comparable resale, sorry.
4. misc
mac: high quality build ... I agree because I really like the unibody aluminum structure
lots of innovation... illuminated keyboards have been in use on PC laptops for years and the jury is out on whether the non-removable but larger battery is a plus or minus
highest satisfaction ratings go hand in hand with the highest level of zealotry in the industry - everyone is afraid to talk about the kernel panics, incompatible hardware, and easy hack-ability of the Mac's browser for fear they won't be able to recruit to "the cause" as easily
How is the Mac more expensive? Well, considering I can buy TWO equivalent Gateways for the same price and still have $300 left over. I think that speaks for itself.
You're right - there is only one reasonable purchase decision... but it's not the Mac.
Bill, That Gateway is Da Bomb!!!
mention it is only a 2.26 GHz with 3MB L2 compare to a 2.8GHz with
6MB L2. The Gateway is so much better, the end user does not need
the higher spec processor.
How about that 17" High-Definition Widescreen WXGA+ Display (1440
x 900)? Does it compare favorably to that overpriced Mac, with it's
measly 17-inch (diagonal) high-resolution LED-backlit glossy
widescreen display 1920 by 1200?
How about that spectacular batter in the wonderful Gateway? 9-Cell
Lithium Ion 86.58 -watt-hour. Surly the Mac with it' lame Built-in 95-
watt-hour lithium-polymer battery won't give you the same run time.
Okay, so the gateway only weighs 2.5 pound more that that cheesy
Mac. What idiot would prefer an aluminum laptop, over that wonderful
plastic that is so eco-friendly.
As we all know Gateway build such high quality computers the Mac is
so grossly overpriced. The best part is the Gateway has all that
wonderful pre-installed software that a Mac doesn't have.
It's so great that we are not stuck using those crapples, with their
inferior hardware, isn't it?
Especially since I can buy TWO for the price of the closest Mac
The 1920x1200 display is still only 17" which means for most users the UI text in a lot of the programs will be too small to read. I have verified this personally when I saw it running Final Cut at the Apple store on one of my many visits while shopping for a laptop for my niece. There was no way to change the size of the UI text in Final Cut. The guy at the Apple store tried and tried.
I should also point out that the Gateway originally HAD the 1920x1200 screen. They reverted to 1440x900 because some text was too small to see and people were complaining. Personally, I'd rather have the 1440x900 screen, especially because of the extremely SHINY Apple screen where you see your own reflection all day. I've SEEN both in person.
The battery loses 9.4 watts but it's removable which means you could carry TWO of them. What happens when the Mac battery runs dead and you are nowhere near an outlet? Like I said, that bigger battery is of debatable value.
I'm sorry, but I still don't see $1400 worth of advantage in the MacBook Pro. You obviously do, but you will never convince most people who live in the real world and have to pay kids' tuition, dental bills, and the mortgage.
What world do you live in?
MacBook Pro. You obviously do, but you will never convince most
people who live in the real world and have to pay kids' tuition, dental
bills, and the mortgage.[/i]
So are you saying that i do not have four children? That's really news
to me, I wonder who those four small people are running around my
house? Wait you are also saying I do not live in a house. Okay, then
why do I send the mortgage company a check each month? Who
knows, maybe I am just a figment of your imagination? I am sure you
time is not worth anything? With the maintenance that windows
requires. No one seems to want to add in that cost. The average
windows user spend quite a bit having their computer serviced. What
does "Geek Squad" charge an hour? So I must be imaginary as well as
clueless as you claim.
Just because you personally like cheap, does not mean it is the best. I
was able to afford to buy a MacBook Pro paying cash for it (bonus
check from work and student discount), The biggest reason for my
purchase was OS X. I prefer it to windows, oh wait I do not exist, so I
can prefer anything, right?
You've been lemmingized
Exactly like I said...
Considering the ratio of Windows PCs being sold to Macs being sold is 9 to 1, the word MOST seems to definitely apply, arguing the math seems pointless. I'm not sure how 4 kids is relevant to the argument that MOST people don't choose your viewpoint, but I'm happy for you. Kids are great.
My 6 PCs have been zero maintenance for the past 10 years on both XP Pro and Vista. So adding in that cost and dividing by 10 I get... ZERO. Multiply that times the Geek Squad rate and I get... oh yeah STILL ZERO. If you set them up right from the start, and treat them well, you never have troubles.
The moral? I guess it would be, don't believe everything you read about the PC on MacWorld.com or MacInsider.com. I read both and it's obvious they cater to the JDF crowd with really creative editing.
My main PC is an overclocked, water cooled, Intel 965EE machine with two NVidia GTX285s in SLI, and 8 terabytes of drive storage, so I don't think my taste runs cheap at all. It cost me three times as much as the Mac Pro I bought. I couldn't build any Mac that comes close to the graphics performance of my rig. And mine isn't even the fastest out there.
I'm happy you could buy a Macbook Pro paying cash. I bought two brand new Acura's (MDX and TL) paying cash. I bought my Mac Pro and all of my other computers paying cash. It's nice not paying finance charges isn't it? It gives you more usable money in the long run. I'm still not sure what this has to do with this topic, but it's nice sharing with one another. Are we imaginary friends now?
There is no "best" computer. It's a myth. I know of people with every OS and every computer who have had trouble. I also know people with every OS and computer who have had zero trouble. I believe having zero trouble mostly comes down to 4 things. 1. blind luck, 2. setting them up right at the start, 3. responsible computing, and 4. treating your machines respectfully.
Where the Mac does excel over any PC is on Industrial Design and on integrating their own software fully with their own systems.
Define "cheap"
And just because you like expensive does not indicate it is the best.