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How Google shifts profits to Bermuda to shrink taxes by billion$

By | March 29, 2011, 3:06pm PDT

Summary: Google’s worldwide operations pay billions of dollars in IP licence fees to its tiny Bermuda subsidiary. The result is it pays the lowest corporate taxes of any US tech company.

There’s a fascinating article by Lisa O’Carroll in the UK Guardian newspaper about corporate taxes and how Google [GOOG] uses Bermuda and Dublin, Ireland to shelter taxes.

Here’s how it works:

- Google’s HQ is in Dublin, which has the lowest corporate tax rate of 12.5%.
- Google, however, wants an ever lower rate so it charges its European business a massive administrative fee by its Bermuda subsidiary.

And that’s how a profit of 5.5 billion Euros turns into just 45 million Euros that is taxable in Dublin.

Lisa O’Carroll explains:

The 2009 Google Ireland Limited accounts show the company turned over a phenomenal €7.9bn in Europe for the year ending 2009 – up from €6.7bn the previous year.

The internet giant made a gross profit of €5.5bn, with an operating profit of €45m after “administrative expenses” of €5.467bn were stripped out.

Administrative expenses largely refer to royalties (or a licence fee) Google pays its Bermuda HQ for the right to operate.

This results in Google paying just 2.4% corporate tax — the lowest of the top five US tech companies according to Bloomberg.

This begs the question of why do countries, cities and states try to attract tech companies such as Google when they don’t want to support the local community tax base?

Twitter, for example is trying to get out of paying San Francisco payroll taxes.

Yet the Obama administration believes that innovation from companies like Google and Twitter will help build jobs and provide the wealth to eliminate US deficits. Other governments have similar hopes.

That’s a highly optimistic view and one that’s not supported by the actions of those companies who seek the best deals they can get, and use every loophole to get out of paying a share of their profits to the communities where they live and work.

Social corporate responsibility is an oxymoron. It is investor responsibility that is the highest goal of corporate management.

It’s the fiduciary responsibility of executives to maximize shareholder profits — so why do executives at Google, Twitter, etc, talk about social responsibility when their actions show the opposite?

They should Google “hypocrites” because they seem to lack any understanding of their actions and shut up about “corporate social responsibility.” It’s embarrassing.


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Tom Foremski reports on the business and culture of Silicon Valley at the intersection of technology and media.

Disclosure

Tom Foremski

Tom Foremski is the editor and publisher of Silicon Valley Watcher and Silicon Valley Watch. Tibco Software is an advertiser.

Biography

Tom Foremski

In May 2004, Tom Foremski became the first journalist to leave a major newspaper, the Financial Times, to make a living as a full-time journalist blogger. He writes the popular news blog Silicon Valley Watcher--reporting on the business of Silicon Valley.

Tom arrived in San Francisco in 1984, and has covered US technology markets for leading computer journals around the world.

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RE: How Google shifts profits to Bermuda to shrink taxes by billion$
FAULKNE 13th Oct
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Right...
@JoeTierney 29th Mar 2011
...this is specific to Google or technology firms? Every sizable corporation in the world does this type of tax dance.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/25/business/economy/25tax.html?_r=1&ref=business
@PatKelly Question, do Taxes create jobs?
@tatiGmail

No. Question, do roads, water and sewer systems, fire and police departments along with military defenses build themselves?

Not that taxes shouldn't be limited but gimme a break ...
@tatiGmail

They help create public sector jobs, and they help fund massive government-backed infrastructure projects that creates private sector jobs.

Most importantly though, companies paying the corporation tax they should be paying means government can collect less tax off me.
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CORP tax should be ZERO
LBiege 29th Mar 2011
Exactly why do these progressives (read parasites) believe they somehow deserve a share of the fruit of someone else' labor while sitting on their idle butt contributing nothing?
  • Flagged
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There should be a single
Uralbas Updated - 29th Mar 2011
Flat tax for all.

Or better yet. Just push it on 5 items.

a) Fuels / Electricity (energy)
b) Communication
c) Water
d) Transportation
e) Assets.

Very few simple write offs should be added.

1) A fixed amount (say 1000 dollars/year) should be credited to a company for each none executive job they hold. Limiting write offs to no more than 5% of the taxes they pay.

2) Anyone can write off up to 5% back of for charitable causes for non profit organizations that don't apply for patents. Or for education services that train people without jobs. Or provide healthcare to those that need it and cant afford it. Providing a very low cost services to the country.

Key word here is Simple and no more than 10% write off

No matter how you cut the mustard, the consumer will end up paying all taxes one way or another as its always been through history.

People below poverty levels should not pay taxes, but should be limited in the benefits they receive to items that can get them back on their feet (avoid leaches).

Lets avoid these foolish loopholes, that make us pay more taxes than we should (GE's profits this year come to mind).

The more someone uses anything, they proportionally pay their dues. If they have more assets and wealth, they pay their share. So its fair on the poor and the wealthy equitably.

All foreign profits pay a tax in this country if the company operates in the country (they want this market, they pay their share.. say 15% of foreign profits, this is half of what Apple asks for)

I know.. its utopia, let me dream, its midnight after all here.
@LBiege asks an often rhetorical question, but I'll give him a simple answer: the wealthier you are, the more benefits you gain from a stable and orderly society. Taxes the vehicle to pay for that society.

Consider the opposite: no taxes, but you pay for everything out of your own pocket. The richer you are, the more of your own money you must expend to keep what you have. Feudal lords understood this concept quite well. Few of them were ultimately successful in protecting their assets (and their lives) from the masses.
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@noagenda
fr_gough 30th Mar 2011
Roads: gasoline taxes. Covered. Water and sewer systems? Utilities fees. Covered. Fire and police departments? Local property and sales taxes covered. Defense? About 30% of the current federal budget. I would be all in favor of reducing federal taxes by 67%.
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@uralbas
fr_gough 30th Mar 2011
and why do you gain those benefits from an orderly and stable society? Because you are investing your wealth in economic activity, providing jobs, investment capital etc. In fact, you are contributing vastly more than a middle class or poor person to economic activity and prosperity. Therefore, according to your logic, the wealthier you are, the less you should be taxed.
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@tatiGmail
It comes out of the 30% of what is known as "discretionary spending". Defense spending is about 4.7% of GDP.

It's actually down from when Regan was in office, at which point it was something like 25%
@tatiGmail - tax cuts haven't, based on the unemployment reports I'd read over the previous decade, when we were all told "tax cuts create jobs".

Still, they'd rather dole out more corporate welfare, bailouts, especially to companies THAT offshore jobs in the first place.

And yet only the working class is pointed as being the lazy greedy leeches. Bizarre.
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Close the Tax Loopholes; Create More Jobs
NewsView Updated - 8th Jul
Taxes do create jobs in the form of national defense. National Security is our single biggest expenditure. Our tax dollars support some of the biggest industries this country (still) has.

Let's bring it closer to home: Do you support our troops? Do you want to them to be adequately protected and paid for their sacrifices --- or to return home to services that will help them acclimate to life in a society that is largely oblivious to the horrors they have endured? If so, don't support multinational-size corporate loopholes.

If that doesn't move you, look at the headlines. The US is about to DEFAULT. If we keep handing out tax breaks like candy because the bully-pundits and their lobbying-firm backers "claim" it will stimulate jobs, we are just kidding ourselves. Did TARP stimulate jobs? In reality, haven't we accumulated more tax loopholes than at any point in US history --- and did it prevent us from going into an economic crisis?

Apparently, the dogma that fewer taxes = more jobs isn't so cut and dried.

Make no mistake: I want taxes off the middle class, small and medium businesses. When we're talking about economies of scale, however --- mega corporations that have international reach --- it's more akin to talking about nations because their revenues rival entire nations.

Closing tax loopholes and addressing the perpetually ignored topic of TRADE DEFICITS might just save us from having our US dollar die out as world reserve currency (which would plunge us into Third World poverty). As long as our T-bills are going down in value --- which foreign nations such as China are heavily invested in --- our digital currency is increasingly debased and our jobs and tax revenues are continually offshored, we will bleed Red Ink. Red Ink --- even if it is governmental Red Ink --- is not good for business, any kind of business. Companies both large and small do not hire and expand in a volatile and highly uncertain economic climate --- a climate they themselves have contributed to by continually finding ways to evade taxes in the countries in which they do business (again, we're talking about Big Business, not the local sort)!

The tax issue has always been a wild card. It's nothing new and certainly not the latest or greatest culprit. Going broke at the federal and state level, on the other hand, could be the death knell.

The states and US government must remain solvent any which, way or how they can. And we voters should be smart enough to care that they do. If not, there will be even fewer jobs and more inflation of food/energy in the months and years to come. In this culmination of a globalized economy we are too dependent upon everyone else and they in turn on us. We've created this fiscally codependent world, and now we have to deal with the consequences of this decades-long romance with globalization (in the absence of equitable free trade agreements).

I hope more people begin to wake up to the reality that each and every one of us, whether we have a "government job" or not are mutually dependent on both private industry and government for better or for worse. There wouldn't be a USA without some degree of cooperation between the private and the public interest. And by that I don't mean fraud, I mean fair play.

If a pundit convinces you to cry for a multinational you've got bigger problems to worry about.

Warren Buffet is on record stating his secretary pays more taxes than he does:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/money/tax/article1996735.ece

A Swiss banker who "told all" to WikiLeaks has been shut up swiftly to prevent us from understanding the shell game that is international commerce:

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9KLHDFO0.htm

And in the 2007 documentary film "IOUSA", former Comptroller General David Walker warns that ultimately we will not be able to afford to pay our troops:

http://www.iousathemovie.com/

And in one final point, a US Accountability Office study in 2008 found that a whopping 2/3 of US corporations pay no federal income taxes whatsoever and 72% of foreign corporations pay nothing to us, either:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/08/12/us-usa-taxes-corporations-idUSN1249465620080812

Bottom line: Contrary to all the urban legends floating around, we're pretty generous to those who receive both our charity overseas and our tax breaks here at home. The people who are getting the shaft are we the voter and/or owner of a SMALL business. Big business is in another category. They hardly belong in a "victim class".
@Everyone....Why are you B1tChing??? You are the problem becuause you use google everyday. Why not abandon them and use another engine that is more friendly.
@frvr@... same reason I still have Windows to spite wanting to drop it for something else.
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Welcome to the new
cosuna Updated - 30th Mar 2011
@Tom Foremski : ironically this has been going on for centuries, with Adam Smith "invisible hand" working as expected.

You say that they should "support the local community tax base".

What "local community"? Bay Area?, U.S.A.? Western Hemisphere?

These companies are global citizens which leverage millions from their also global audience. They reside on one place because that place offers the best launchpad for that initiative, just like Hollywood does for global movies.

Social responsibility is not a synonym to U.S. needs. If the Bay offers them the best in tech, Delaware the best in corporate incorporation, Ireland the best on income tax and Bermuda the best site to host IP management, let be it.

Don't be a cry baby and expect the U.S. to be the best in everything (hegemony) on the 21st century. They had it on the 20th. The British Empire had it on the 19th (through strong arming and colonies) and, before that, the Spanish Crown had it on the 16th (using conquistadores , misioneros and lets not forget the holy inquisition).
@LBiege - labor creates all wealth. And since "cost" is a factor, imagine how much lower all of those products would be if CEO jobs were offshored? Hey, they get $20 mil JUST for being fired because they screwed over the company and its workers. That could last a person six or seven lifetimes with ease... if you ask me, the laborers are being scapegoated.
@PatKelly It's much easier for technology and pharmaceutical firms. If I make cars, it's clear where they are made. If I develop software or other intellectual property, it's very hard for an outside agency to determine where the property was developed, allowing origins to be shifted to the lowest taxed subsidiaries. It also allows filing of patents and licensing of IP that, again, wouldn't be feasible to do if you were manufacturing or probably even offering services.
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It boggles my mind that people believe that because you're rich you have a right to anything you can grab and hold on to. Start with the things libertarians agree we ought to pay taxes for - roads and police. Now do some math - what are roads worth to somebody who lives alone in a studio apartment and drives to work? Call that one unit. Now think about yourself, maybe you have an income of $100K, a family of four and two cars. You use the roads about five times as much, considering the kids. When your house is broken into the cops will stay more than five minutes and they'll follow up later, but the apartment visit will be one-time 3-5 minutes max. Your kids are in school (95+% of kids are in public schools and if yours are in private school, remember they can choose not to take the kids with cerebral palsy and Downs Syndrome - don't want your kids in with those, well there's always euthanasia!) Even considering their shortcomings, you are living in a fantasy if you don't recognize that the likelihood of your house getting broken into is reduced by the public schools and truancy laws. Your retirement investments and a chunk of your income depend on someone else's work product, which means the money the government spends on roads, cops and schools for the people who work for you also benefits you. If you have an eight-figure income, that is dependent on the ability of thousands of people to get to and from work, stay healthy enough to work and not get mugged or killed at home or on the way. DO THE MATH!

Even if you are deaf and dumb to issues of right and wrong, fairness dictates that people who are getting a great deal on their taxes should be asked first when there is a real need for an increase. Since taxes have been steadily decreasing since JFK was in office, once in a while there needs to be an adjustment. Flat-tax supporters don't see it that way, of course, because they have a God-given right to get a better deal that their neighbors so long as they whine loud enough.
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(sorry about following message landing in wrong part of this forum - it should follow "Do Taxes Create jobs?" sub-thread)

It is strange to see how multinational tech companies are sitting on mountains of cash at the moment and blaming governments for economic problems. Of course, there is always someone there to say that the modest taxes which are charged today are the root problem, not the failure of industry to do its job and reinvest. It is nice when they do invest here in developed countries, and it's really interesting that they are not still pouring money into countries with cheap labor as aggressively as in the recent past. Maybe there are other reasons for poor business performance that greedy workers. (Ya think?)
@PatKelly its a lot easier to do so when its IP and there is no physical flow of goods
@PatKelly
Wow,Thanks again! hermes bags
Just wondering... Google or the Government. Who could put that money to better use?

The ones who generated it, or the ones who just got a cut?
@tatiGmail

That answer is easy: government actually spends the money to benefit everybody, not just the select few who own Google.
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@terry flores

Governments, for the most part, exist to benefit themselves, not their citizenry. Governments are run by politicians and all politicians (bar none) are out for their own good, no one else's.

If they happen to manage to do something worthwhile amidst their pocket lining, well, hey, they can use that next election to fool more voters!

Bah.
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they don't give a rat's rear-end about anything else.
@frgough and wolf_z

Cynical much?

1) The rich are not rich because they are "better" or "harder working" than the rest of us. There is large helping of luck and situational advantages at play. Even if they are harder working, does the CEO who makes 8 million in a year work a two hundred times harder (or better?) than the teacher who makes 40K? Do the rich make the world *better* just by being rich? What about those on Wall street who, by showing up to work each day, actually make the world a little bit *worse* every time they do their job (which is to swindle the rest of us), but get paid handsomely for their efforts? Furthermore, most of the rich got their money from their parents, and continue to make money while they are *asleep*.

2) Have you heard of externalization? Business regularly use tricks to maximize their profits by offloading indirect costs and forcing negative effects to the general population. For instance, a manufacturer might pollute a nearby stream. Taxes pay for regulation and addressing those costs. Also, they pay for basic infrastructure as well as *people* capitol. For example, high quality public education, nutritional support for children, support for women with children, etc., will result in a productive next-generation of prospective employees.

3) You rant about politicians being "bar none" out for their own good. I know several politicians and I can say unequivocally this is simply not true. Even if it were true, do we trust more in business leaders than politicians, the latter of which we can at least throw out every few years? What alternative to democracy are you proposing? Google executives *aren't* lining their own pockets?!?
@jdakula

pollyanna much?

1) Most of the "rich", with a million-dollar net worth are first generation: Only 19 percent receive any income or wealth of any kind from a trust fund or an estate. Fewer than 20 percent inherited 10 percent or more of their wealth. More than half never received as much as $1 in inheritance. Fewer than 25 percent ever received "an act of kindness" of $10,000 or more from their parents, grandparents, or other relatives. Ninety-one percent never received, as a gift, as much as $1 of the ownership of a family business. Nearly half never received any college tuition from their parents or other relatives. (source: http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/s/stanley-millionaire.html). I agree that luck plays a big role vs. just being "better" or "harder working". However, I find that the harder I work, the luckier I get.

2) This is where the pollyanna comes in... companies aren't that interested in a healthy, well-educated populace. They aren't looking for the next generation of employees - they are looking for the next generation of consumers. Government is very similar in this regard. Neither is benefited by smart and strong people who can see that both sides are screwing them and have the wherewithal to do something about it.

3) I'd say we don't trust either politicians or business leaders. But I would narrow the business leaders I don't trust to those who are most likely to be politicians at some point: big bank executives, multi-national conglomerate heads, etc. At the same time, I'd narrow politicians to Federal and a percentage of state politicians. I'm sure there are many decent people you know on the city council or county commissioners, but get much higher and there's no rational basis to trust them.
@jdakula

I usually read and laugh at the crap that people post on this site, however i think id like to respond to your post:

Living in South Africa where the split between wealth is so bad, that the majority of this country lives in poverty while a select few has the riches- Yes some of them make money from being connected, but mostly the difference between the wealthy people and the poor people is their attitude. Poor people like to blame circumstances for their problems, while the successful people simply just will not accept it and work towards a better goal. There are children in rural areas that work hard at school, using what ever resources they can find, and end up getting a bursary to a university?

Do you really think the share holders of the Companies who's CEO earns $8 million a year wouldn't rather have liked that money as a dividend? Yet when at the general meeting for the shareholder come they elect him/her again at that salary? Simply because he/she has the ability to run that company, and not many people are capable of that?

If you have a skill that is scares and needed you'll be paid a lot!

If you are to lazy to obtain any scares skill, then its your chose, live with it.

As for teachers earning 40K a year. Some of them do it because money isn't important, helping shape the minds of the future is. The rest do it because they were to lazy to do something more daring, hence their chose they have to live with it.

As for politicians: You can't work your way up the ranks in any government to a level were your work means a lot without lying and coning people, because the other person that wants the job that is willing to lie and do unethical stuff to get it, is going to get it! Therefor the people in government usually pursue their own motive, including lining their own pockets , because the good and honest people get eaten alive before they even start.
@tatiGmail

People with tax cuts have more to spend on buying stuff, which is what keeps the economy ticking over.

300+ million Americans buying stuff.

Not Governments, not corporations, just average people spending what they've got.

A tax cut gives them a little more to spend.
perhaps they fell for the 'do no evil' montra. Also, the open source sheeps are hypocrites -- they will not point out the evils of Google. Of course they all threw a hissy fit when GE does it.
@iPad-awan
Everyone does this.
This is exactly why America is in decline right now. Corporate america refuses to pay its fair share. It uses our people, our markets, our infrastructure, but refuses to pay its fair share of taxes. Instead, a bigger burden falls onto the the ever shrinking middle class. People wonder how we will ever get out of our financial problem we face. This is getting us closer to the end of America's greatness and will lead to the downfall of this country.
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What's a fair share?
Richard Flude 29th Mar 2011
If Europe allows this kind of transfer pricing then so be it. We pay the tax we're legally required to pay. Not a cent more.

The fools are the voters that elect governments that permit it, believing their spin, and the hypocrisy of our elected representatives ignoring their snouts in the same trough.

I'd be looking closer to home for the reason behind America's decline. Stop electing governments on the basis of what they say (e.g. change).
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@Richard Flude
MacCanuck 30th Mar 2011
The problem is that all political parties act the same way.

They tell you what you want to hear to get elected then do what they want once in power, often contrary to what the electorate desire or thought they were getting (ie, bringing in higher corporate tax rates, closing tax loop holes, funding health care or education vs cutting it, etc).

Though with the often illogical decisions governments sometimes make, I believe the elected members must check their brains and common sense at the door once they enter the governing chamber.
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@MacCanuck
fr_gough 30th Mar 2011
Not true. The GOP freshmen are doing exactly what they said they would. Pitching a royal fit to cut significant spending. Scott Walker in Wisconsin is doing exactly what he said he would: Getting the budget under control and throttling back the union stranglehold on government in that state. Chris Christie is doing exactly what he said he would.

And look at the hell they are catching from the parasites in society.
  • Flagged
@frgough@?
All I can say is Wow? All these freshmen GOP candidates are trying to live up to their promises. What they foolishly do not realize is the group they are replacing was elected by the Entitlement group. Having been in the houses of many different people, I can honestly say this. The entitlement group (2nd, 3rd generation and beyond welfare people) seem to buy the more expensive stuff. One woman that is collecting welfare and is living in section 8 housing can afford to buy her 12 year old son 6 pair of Reebok Zig-tec shoes (approximately $80 a pair) and has a HD DVR connected to her 52 inch plasma TV. Makes me wonder why I have to work so hard to get ahead. These people are getting the change they want, the shift of wealth from those that work, to those that leach off the system. It truly is easier to spend someone else?s money.
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RE: How Google shifts profits to Bermuda to shrink taxes by billion$
alsobannedfromzdnet Updated - 30th Mar 2011
@Richard Flude

They do, it can be argued they invented it, companies like Nestle, MonSanto, Philips and other Europe based multinationals.
socialism as an economic model. Socialism always produces vast inequalities in wealth.
@frgough@?
America is in decline because it is rapidly adopting
socialism as an economic model
You hit the nail on the head. Osama Obama was promising about this, and that is why that Arab is in the White House. The idea of a two class system where there are the wealthy (usually just the ruling class) and everyone else waits in lines, for their hand-outs. The thought of $20+ trillion in debt by the time Obama?s programs get fully implemented, should scare any working person. The Idea of spreading the wealth, or tax the working to pay for the lazy bums, is not a practical idea. But the Welfare voters were out in force last election. So between than and a few that bought into the lies about the Republicans. This is why America is going to become irrelevant in the New World
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Actually, you're wrong!
adornoe@... 30th Mar 2011
Socialism always produces vast inequalities in wealth.

Socialism doesn't produce wealth, in any form.

Socialism always kills the wealth creation mechanism of any country, to the point where the economy and the government eventually collapses. It just takes time to begin to realize that fact, but, it has always been a fact that, where socialism takes over as the main driver for an economy, that economy will die a slow death. It's happened everywhere socialism has been tried, like in the old USSR where communism took over 70 years before the people and government realized that, they're weren't making any progress and were actually dead as an economy. It's happening in the U.S., where, ironically, people believed "it couldn't happen here".
  • Flagged
@frgough@...
Any top down economic system does exactly the same thing. When 1% of the population controls 99% of the wealth, social injustices occur. The differences between the Soviet Union and any economic system where the rich dominate, a la Feudalism, or or to the extent that any group has the power to undermine free thinking through subjugation of any form is extraordinarily dangerous.

The similarities between the actual economic systems of the Soviet Union and the one where the SCOTUS lets corporations buy representatives is actually very similar in practice.

Dictators and slaves are the end result when people in power keep their power. Antitrust, free speech and press, and the right to unionize are the first liberties to be taken when the super rich exert their power. The name under which this takes place is known as 'security'.
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hoaxoner: Wrong again!
adornoe@... 30th Mar 2011
It may be fashionable in liberal circles to bash the rich, but, the fact is that, it's the rich that create wealth, and which governments depend on in order to be able to collect tax revenue.

The people who are rich are rich because, they had the ideas and products to create wealth, from which they benefited and from which people around them benefited and from which government and the economy in general benefited.

Take away the profit and the wealth motive, and you end up with a Cuba or a Venezuela. While it may be disgusting to see so many people who are filthy rich, I still prefer that than an economy where the wealth is "redistributed". Redistribution, aka, socialism, would end up extracting wealth from the people who really know how to create more wealth from their wealth. Government just consumes, and does not create wealth, even if there are many out there who believe that government spending and redistribution of wealth creates more wealth. Government spending does not create wealth. With government, what you end up with is 2 or 3 people spending or consuming the same amount of money as 1 person, with that 1 person being the only productive one in the bunch. As more people do the consuming, the wealth of the 1 producer eventually runs out, and you end up with 3 people living in poverty and no wealth creation and a dead economy.

It's like Margaret Thatcher said: the problem with socialism is that, it eventually runs out of other people's money.
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Look, they are considered one of the best employers in the country and unlike Apple most of their employees aren't in Asia! I credit them with this because our government over charges.

Pete
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Lame Peter Perry...
i8thecat Updated - 29th Mar 2011
@Peter Perry

Most of Apple's workforce is in the US... What makes you think it is not? Have you ever been to Cupertino and seen the campus? I have... And I have friends across the US who work for Apple. Apple has a massive US pressence and their HQ is in the US and they pay US taxes and they support the US economy... Unlike Google. Have you also considered how many shipping employees are staffed because of Apple?

I think someone spiked your evil Kool-Aid with stupidity juice... Apple is one of the best employers to work for in the US and the most admired and respected as well.
@i8thecat you live in a dream world. Where do you think the thousands of workers who make your little iPads live and work...China, and more specifically Shenzen...I'll bet you have no idea where that is.
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@i8thecat
"Apple is one of the best employers to work for in the US and the most admired and respected as well."

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/bestcompanies/2011/full_list/

Google, NetApp, Cisco, Salesforce, even Microsoft made the top 100 in 2011.

No Apple.

I thought this was an anomaly. So I checked back to 2006.

Google, Cisco, NetApp and Microsoft made it every year.

No Apple.
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@Bradish
fr_gough 30th Mar 2011
those are Foxconn employees, not Apple employees.
@Bradish@?
Apple uses subcontractor to make it?s products. This is nothing new, or shocking. Guess what? So does just about every other company. Where are the xboxes and Zunes made? Where are the majority of all consumer products made? Can you say Shenzen China?

How about their help desks? Microsoft shipped all their tech support to Bangalore. Trust me I have had to make a few calls to Microsoft?s tech support, and the tech support reps will lie, claiming they are in New York. When you tell them you know where they are; they will either keep on lying, or simply hang up on you. I had the misfortune of trying to fix a botched Windows upgrade. I called Microsoft?s support because the upgrade so badly hosed the Hard Drive the only way to fix it was to re-install from scratch. A word to the wise here, never do an upgrade on a windows system (or any other one) without a complete back up. What makes matters even worse is with Windows you have to reinstall the programs, as you can?t easily transfer them. Yes: I know that if you make an Image you can transfer everything, but that is only after a successful upgrade. Try and reinstall Office 2007 after a botched upgrade. I had to get a new product key issued, and for that you have to speak to someone in Bangalore.

When you call Apple?s customer support, you actually get to speak with someone that lives in the United States. I had an Airport base station go south on me 2 years ago, it was one of the Snow base stations (which was 5 years old). The person I spoke to was pleasant and gave me a few ides on how to properly diagnose it. The funny part is I used the excuse that a New Mac was not properly connecting to the AirPort Network. But the tech told me how to make sure the computers Airport card was working properly. In the end I went out and bought a new AirPort base station, simply because the Tech form Apple was honest and taught me a few tricks. I would take Apple?s support over Microsoft?s any day of the week.
@Peter Perry

to compete and try to crush U.S companies worldwide!

besides Apple, HP (largest U.S PC maker) and Microsoft don't do android.

the last bastion of the U.S economy is brain power and Google is giving it away FREE to companies like Samsung, LG, HTC and dozens of small chinese companies and they are using it compete against americans. Asian companies ALREADY control hardware manufacturing and Google is now giving them the software as well - and for free!

Worse Google makes relatively little money from Android. Some of those companies are converting android into their own forked variants like OMS that do NOT run Google services like search or Android apps but their own search engines and private apps. Google makes NO money off those variants. (understand this: chinese companies are using android as building blocks to create their own legal OS' which they have never been able to do in the past, a KNIFE pointed at U.S software domination, at microsoft, IBM, oracle etc )

Even from 'real' android Google only makes relatively tiny amounts of money from ads and services (Android OEMS do NOT have to use Google search or Apps). Google only made about one billion $ last YEAR from all non PC platforms half of that from apple iOS (in contrast Apple made 10.47 billion from iPhone alone last QUARTER not counting iADs, apps, iTunes etc.) For that 500 million or so a year gross Google has given away intellectual property to foreign companies for them to generate tens of billions of $. !! How many thousands of foreign workers is Google thus indirectly supporting? Worse supporting to COMPETE AGAINST Americans!!

In contrast Apple makes billions off iPhone which it brings back to the U.S -- it SELLS billions of bucks of tech to asian countries like china and other places. Two thirds of apple's profits is from overseas. True Apple spends millions manufacturing in China but it also makes millions selling to them, google android supports dozens of chinese companies but Google makes almost NOTHING from china as Google search is banned.

so Google giving free software to HTC, LG, Samsung, Acer etc to destroy Apple, HP, Microsoft is good for america?

(note: I'm not against free trade (or china for that matter). In this post I'm acting more like a devil's advocate to disabuse the concept that Google is so great for america and Apple is 'evil'.)
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