The ToyBox

Ricardo Bilton & Gloria Sin

Samsung responds to Steve Jobs and iPhone 4 press conference

By Rachel King | July 20, 2010, 7:10am PDT

Summary: At last week’s Apple press conference regarding the iPhone 4 antenna issues, CEO Steve Jobs called out another of other competitors. Most of them have responded already, and now Samsung is joining the fray.

At last week’s Apple press conference regarding the iPhone 4 antenna issues, CEO Steve Jobs called out another of other competitors. Most of them have responded already, and now Samsung is joining the fray.

Samsung specifically points towards design comparisons of the iPhone 4 and the Omnia 2, both of which have out-of-the-ordinary antenna placements.

Here’s the statement from Samsung spokesperson Shin Young-joon, as published in the The Korea Herald:

The antenna is located at the bottom of the Omnia 2 phone, while iPhone’s antenna is on the lower left side of the device. Our design keeps the distance between a hand and an antenna.

We have fully conducted field tests before the rollout of smartphones. Reception problems have not happened so far, and there is no room for such problems to happen in the future.

While there is a pointed difference in antenna placement, the statement isn’t that loud or inflammatory. The Omnia 2 isn’t exactly comparable to the iPhone 4 in terms of price, popularity or features…so maybe not comparable at all. Perhaps that’s why Samsung doesn’t have as much of a direct and firm response as RIM did. Or maybe Samsung would rather focus on something more important than smartphone drama.

Thoughts?

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Topics

Apple iPhone, Steve Jobs, Samsung Electronics Co. Ltd., Press Conference, Smart Phones, Consumer Electronics, Personal Technology, Rachel King

Rachel King is a staff writer for ZDNet based in San Francisco.

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RIM, HTC, Samsung don't want you to know

This is NOT a 'response': "Please leave other phones out of this discussion."

This is a 'response': "Yes, it's true. We also are watching 100s of videos on youtube about our phones having the same problems."

Notice RIM, HTC, Samsung, etc aren't addressing the PROBLEM.
CathyCC
20th Jul 2010
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- Flag
Um, neither is apple...

@CathyCC

Free rubber bands and "hey, look at everybody else" ain't the way to solve either...

If anything...RIM, HTC, and Samsung are just following Steve Jobs' first step in handling antenna issues

(deny, deny, deny)
SonofaSailor
20th Jul 2010
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- Flag
RE: Samsung responds to Steve Jobs and iPhone 4 press conference

@SonofaSailor The others don't have that issue... I have access to most of the phones mentioned in one form or another and could not replicate it, but what I could replicate was the iPhone issue, and I was able to replicate it with 1 finger.
snoop0x7b
20th Jul 2010
- Flag
You are correct...

@Snoop

I should have included in my post that on my BB Bold 9700, I can only make the signal drop from 5 bars to 4, and even that's hit or miss...but I know what kind of response I will get if I post "doesn't happen to me"
SonofaSailor
20th Jul 2010
- Flag
RE: Samsung responds to Steve Jobs and iPhone 4 press conference

@SonofaSailor

No - the free rubber bands so to speak are not the answer to any problem except how to put some distance between a hone and a user when in marginal areas.

To that they are a help.

Put a case on any other phone and you will get better performance in marginal signal areas.

Stand a few feet back from your RIM, Nokia, Samsung etc, - even better.

Except when your presence just happens to help - which under certain conditions it will.

This is all very much like the use of indoor antennas with TV reception.

@snoop0x7b

Yes every phone has the issue - and yes you probably didn't replicate it - just shows your lack of skill and understanding really.

I replicated this without any real effort - and before the press conference.

@ SonofaSailor
I can only make the signal drop from 5 bars to 4, and even that's hit or miss

I can replicate that too - with the same phone I replicated the 4 to nothing drop.

In fact I just did.

Sorry people but anecdotal failure to replicate anything is not proof of it not existing at all.

And these issues can be affected by moving the device only a few inches in some cases - which I can also demonstrate - and just tested.

Not only that but external factors that can change from moment to moment will also affect exactly where you can get the effect.

So I can't replicate now the drop from4 to none - because in the exact same spot I had 4 bars when I tested before now has 5 bars of reception, with occasionally 4 bars. The difference between 4 bars of signal the other day and 4-5 bars today is in fact a significant difference to the signal.

So Snoop - doesn't happen to me is probably true - and for iPhone users when they say 'Doesn't happen to me' they get disbelieved - and the very small number of times it does happen gets blown into an international incident.

So you should now realise how the 98% of happy iPhone customers feel!!!

Samsung may be right that they have a better spot for their antenna than most. Someone needs to do some decent testing and some real world analysis on the success of the different products in getting and maintaining signal.

But the claims of Nokia and RIM that this is an Apple issue are false - I can 100% guarantee that!!!
richardw66
20th Jul 2010
- Flag
RE: Samsung responds to Steve Jobs and iPhone 4 press conference

@CathyCC

You touch the iPhone 4 in a certain place, with one finger even, and you lose reception. A lot of reception, in many\all cases.

I smothered my Nokia E63 with my hands, and I lost no reception. None. Zero, zip, zilch, nada, nothing. Full reception, as is common in my house.

Many other phones, you hold them in a funny way\smother them, you lose one, maybe two bars.

You don't smother your phone in normal use, yet you may use your phone with your left hand (which is, I believe, the main cause of the iPhone Signal Loss Issue).
douglasac10
20th Jul 2010
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- Flag
Lucky you, but Nokia themselves found otherwise.

@douglasac10 http://dontholditwrong.tumblr.com/page/1 Fourth from bottom. Excerpt from Nokia E63 manual: "Contact with antennas affects the communication quality" "Smothering" clearly isn't an issue as the graphic shows the small areas involved.
matthew_maurice
20th Jul 2010
- Flag
RE: Samsung responds to Steve Jobs and iPhone 4 press conference

@douglasac10

No - sorry - just plain wrong!!! Hold any other phone under the right conditions and it will drop significantly.

This is proveable and I have
richardw66
20th Jul 2010
- Flag
RE: Samsung responds to Steve Jobs and iPhone 4 press conference

@CathyCC Well, the "problem" is a design flaw. ONLY Apple has chosen to put an exposed metallic antenna on the OUTSIDE of the phone. Go find any ham radio operator and ask him what happens to the signal when you change the length of the antenna. Then ask him if a slightly-damp hand in contact with the antenna would change the length.

You (and every other human being) are a bag of impure water. Impure water is a decent electrical conductor.

Bottom line: The iPhone 4 will work fine - as long as you don't touch it. Other phones work fine EVEN IF YOU TOUCH THEM.
Morely
20th Jul 2010
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Yes, well said

@Morely

Most of the posters on this issue totally misunderstand the basic problem and therefore make totally nonsensical arguments.

1. The human body will SHIELD the antenna to some degree on any cell/smart phone. This will lead to SOME signal attenuation on ALL phones. The change in the number of bars shown is probably somewhat irrelevant, as it depends in the algorithm driving the bar display. The amount of shielding will depend on how you hold the phone and maybe also vary a bit depending on who is holding the phone.

2. On the iPhone 4 you actually TOUCH the antenna, which CAN attenuate the signal much more severely, clearly to the point of dropping the call. That is why the "rubber band" helps, because you can no longer touch the antenna. This is a fundamental design flaw and Apple was probably aware of it but decided to do it anyway because they thought the design was so elegant.
Economister
20th Jul 2010
- Flag
RE: Samsung responds to Steve Jobs and iPhone 4 press conference

@Morely
Bull.
What your ham-fisted comparisons fails to recognize is that it is not the impure water that is in contact with the antenna, it is the skin, made of an oily, phospholipid bi-layer that is a REALLY bad conductor of electricity. The only thing conducting is the small amount of moisture on the surface. I am intimately aware of the issues of galvanic skin conductance after struggling for months with electrode placement for 256-channel EEG rigs in our neuro-imaging lab.
Your statement also fails to take into account impedance changes. Touching the antenna does NOT lead to a simple increase in antenna length, because there is a HUGE impedance change from the metal to skin, an impedance change that causes MOST of the resonating signal to reflect off the skin/antenna interface.
Also, you are incorrect that Apple is the only phone with an external antenna, and you are also wrong on the claim that other phones work fine if you touch them. As already pointed out elsewhere, YouTube is replete with video examples of other phones with the exact same issue. That issue, BTW, is NOT simply one of signal degradation due to antenna length change, but rather one of signal blocking due to the hand forming a partial Faraday cage around the antenna.

Bottom line, you are wrong.
DeusExMachina
23rd Jul 2010
- Flag
RE: Samsung responds to Steve Jobs and iPhone 4 press conference

@Economister:

Careful calling out people on errata before checking your own facts. The design issue has NOTHING to do with thinking it looks "elegant" and saying so just makes you look foolish. Again with this stupid form over function myth. If the issue was appearance, there was nothing stopping Apple from having the EXACT same metal bezel, and an internal antenna.
The antenna design was intentional from a FUNCTIONAL stand point, as, contrary to what you would most likely claim in your ignorance of the issues involved, having the antenna in its current placement leads to drastic signal speed increases in almost ALL circumstances. This was seen as a beneficial design trade-off relative to the exceedingly minor issue of the signal attenuation in certain rare situations, as shown by the very small number of people actually complaining.
DeusExMachina
20th Jul 2010
- Flag
RE: Samsung responds to Steve Jobs and iPhone 4 press conference

@Economister:

Careful calling out people on errata before checking your own facts. The design issue has NOTHING to do with thinking it looks "elegant" and saying so just makes you look foolish. Again with this stupid form over function myth. If the issue was appearance, there was nothing stopping Apple from having the EXACT same metal bezel, and an internal antenna.
The antenna design was intentional from a FUNCTIONAL stand point, as, contrary to what you would most likely claim in your ignorance of the issues involved, having the antenna in its current placement leads to drastic signal speed increases in almost ALL circumstances. This was seen as a beneficial design trade-off relative to the exceedingly minor issue of the signal attenuation in certain rare situations, as shown by the very small number of people actually complaining.

But hey, how about you make a list of these supposed "design flaws" due to Apple picking form over function. I'd love to see it. That and the Easter bunny and the Chupacabra.
DeusExMachina
20th Jul 2010
- Flag
RE: "You (and every other human being) are a bag of impure water"

@Morely
That's not very nice! Sure; she may be a mac-fangal, but let's tone down on the insults! (kidding)
rikasa
20th Jul 2010
- Flag
Elegant

@DeusExMachina

Well, I do not need to take issue with much of your nonsense, except to point out that "elegant" as far as any kind of design goes, does not necessarily have anything to do with appearance whatsoever. I did not refer to the appearance of the iPhone at all when I talked about elegant design.

Instead of trying to educate you as to what I was actually talking about, I will let you ponder it in you infinite wisdom.
Economister
20th Jul 2010
- Flag