The ToyBox

Ricardo Bilton & Gloria Sin

Why Apple's new iPhone 4 is not a Flip mini camcorder killer

By | June 7, 2010, 12:36pm PDT

Summary: Is the high-definition video available on Apple’s new iPhone 4 a Flip-killer? I don’t think so. Here’s why.

Is the high-definition video available on Apple’s new iPhone 4 a Flip-killer?

Flip, the mini camcorder now made by Cisco, was first introduced in 2007, and since then it’s completely taken the digital video market by storm. With its easy-to-use operation — push the red button, and away you go — it made clunky, soda-can-sized handheld camcorders seem…unwieldy.

Fast forward to the present. The Flip now offers a full touchscreen display and more than four million models have been sold. But all the while, the smartphone has gotten smarter, more connected and more ubiquitous.

In fact, Apple’s announcement has some tech reviewers wondering: will it kill the Flip?

Here’s Janko Roettgers at NewTeeVee:

It [is] clear why everyone’s favorite HD point-and-shoot camcorder could be in deep trouble: The Flip SlideHD was supposed to be the next big step for Flip, as it transitioned to a touchscreen-based interface, but it already looked outdated when it made its debut earlier this year, missing multitouch and other UI essentials that smartphone users are already accustomed to.

[...]

Smartphone users, on the other hand, are increasingly getting used to immediately sharing their footage via their devices’ cellular network connections.

And here’s my CNET colleague David Carnoy on the same subject:

Initially, Flip should be OK if only because not everybody is going to go out there and buy an iPhone 4 tomorrow. But if Apple brings HD video capture to the next-generation iPod Touch this fall, consumers will most assuredly gravitate toward a thinner, lighter–and much more feature rich–device like the iPod Touch that won’t cost much more than current Flip HD models, which retail for $150-$279.

My take? Flip will be just fine for the next few years.

Here’s why:

  • The Flip is affordable. At $149, it’s $50 cheaper than the new iPhone — no contract necessary.
  • The Flip is disposable. A $200 camcorder is certainly not as disposable as paper, but ask yourself which you’re more likely to give to your five-year-old: a Flip, or the iPhone with all your data on it?
  • The Flip is simple. Developers are making it easier than ever to capture video from a smartphone, but you still have distractions to deal with, such as updates and incoming phone calls.

I’m one of the first people who believes that one-trick-pony devices, such as e-readers, are not sustainable products. But there are particular hurdles to the mobile industry that will prohibit rapid mass adoption of “Flip-killing” smartphones — the most significant being the two-year service contract.

So what will it take to kill the Flip? Easy: the high-definition video camera must become a standard feature of the smartphone, and the smartphone itself must become the “standard” (i.e. most popular) phone.

That’s going to be difficult when most users can’t upgrade their hardware at will, thanks to draconian service contracts.

When Apple introduced the video- and photo-enabled iPod touch and nano, pundits were swift to claim the impending death of the mini pocket camcorder. But even without a service contract, those devices — which have sold millions — haven’t yet overwhelmed the segment.

The new iPhone is likely to end up the same way. To be sure, plenty of people will use the device to record impromptu clips of the kids, or of scenes abroad, or of karaoke in the bar, and instantly upload them to Facebook or Twitter or whatever else suits them.

But the Flip remains a trusty sidekick for those less impromptu moments — the ones that require some degree of post-production.

For sure, Flip’s current challenge is to innovate — figure out how to get that Cisco-powered cloud connectivity so content can be uploaded on-the-go.

But until the smartphone becomes truly ubiquitous, I believe the Flip will survive.

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Andrew J. Nusca is editor of ZDNet and SmartPlanet.

Disclosure

Andrew Nusca

Andrew J. Nusca does not hold any investments in the technology companies he covers.

Biography

Andrew Nusca

Editor

Andrew J. Nusca is an editor for ZDNet and SmartPlanet. As a journalist based in New York City, he has written for Popular Mechanics and Men's Vogue and his byline has appeared in New York magazine, The Huffington Post, New York Daily News, Editor & Publisher, New York Press and many others. He also writes The Editorialiste, a media criticism blog.

He is a New York University graduate and former news editor and columnist of the Washington Square News. He is a graduate of the Columbia University Graduate School of Journalism. He has been named "Howard Kurtz, Jr." by film critic John Lichman despite having no relation to him. He lives in his native Philadelphia with his wife, cat and Boston Terrier.

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broken records on ZDNET...
Snooki_smoosh_smoosh 10th Sep 2010
Why does any device need to spell doom for another?

Some devices, like the iOS based devices, or even Android based devices, etc, are good for quick and dirty photos, video, and the sort. But let's be clear, none of these devices will ever take away the need from a good dedicated camera.

Nothing but sensationalism. Another slow day at ZDNET?
Andrew, so what happens when FaceTime comes to the iPod Touch, iPad? At the current price points? Is the single natured device that is the flip going to be as flexible as people expect from multi-hundred dollar devices? I mean remember, there are people clamoring about making movies with a DSLR for God's sake.
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Editor
@mrgoodall a few things.

First: Like iDevices, the Flip will continue to be more affordable as time passes.

Second: There is no way the iPad will become a default camcorder. Its use as a videoconferencing device will be unparalleled, but you're definitely not going to hold it in the air to shoot video. The iPod's a different story; they will become popular in this way, but again, only for impromptu exercises.

Third: Just because you can make a movie with a digital SLR camera doesn't mean you're likely to. I have yet to see this take off; it remains a novelty.

I don't mean to be dismissive; Cisco definitely has some worrying to do when it comes to quick 'n' easy video. But I don't think the threat is as pressing as some make it out to be.
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@andrew.nusca
1: Agreed. Prices will continue to fall, but the Flip is still a one-trick pony that's almost the same size now as the iPhone, not like before when it was about half that size.

2: We're talking about the iPhone, not the iPad, and yes, all things considered, it could well replace the Flip simply due to the fact that you can fully edit your movie in the device after or even during shooting; something currently impossible in the Flip. However, as you said, you really wouldn't want to put an iPhone into your kid's hands. Then again, would you want to put any $200 device in your kid's hands?

3: Maybe you're right; but did you know that a major network not only did it, but subsequently aired a TV series episode that was filmed entirely on Canon digital SLRs? My friend, the threat is far more than you can imagine. The series was House and the episode was the season closer that aired two weeks ago.
@mrgoodall step back from the cool-aid. Not every man, woman and child on earth is going to purchase an iPhone. Not everyone wants to be on the AT&T network. Not everyone can afford the $100+ per month it costs to have an iPhone.
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on earth
banned from zdnet 7th Jun 2010
@Jim__J
well jim, the earth is a little bit bigger than your beloved us of a. in lots of countries the monthly plan for an iphone is actually pretty low. and even in the us it is $60 a month not $100+. but why not spread some fud, right?
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Isn't the Flip waterproof, too
John Zern 7th Jun 2010
Thought I heard that, I could be wrong.
So sweet. Cant wait! I joined the Apple iPhone 4 Facebook Fan Page. Cool Stuff!

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Apple-iPhone-4-Fan-Page/133568449992336
Everyone has an iPod and won't go rushing out to buy a new one just to get video recording capability. But everyone buys a new cell phone every 1-2 yrs. Given the new metered data plans for iPhone users from AT&T I see more people than ever going for an iPhone as their cell phone replacement. Given the video capabilities, including HD, why the heck would anyone buy a Flip now? Yes there will be Flip sales but I see it drying up. People like all-in-one devices that work and are simple to use. If anyone can make simple to use all-in-one devices, it's Apple!
The iPhone 4 will reduce the market for the Flip and similar devices, for the simple reason that all the folks who get the iPhone for other reasons will have little need to also purchase a Flip.
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1) $50 will not decide anything; also, as CNET pointed out, iPod Touch will push even more;
2) iPhone's data is stored either on local computer or in a cloud, so irrelevant;
3) simple, but not enough to lure out users from buying iPod Touch or iPhone 4.

Sure Flip may survive, but it will not boom again (comparing to iPhone sales, it never "boomed" at all).
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Flip was a big mistake!
TristanGrimaux Updated - 8th Jun 2010
With a camcorder the size of a regular phone it's easy to compare the two. When you think of a bigger camera, you think of better lenses, better auto-focus, more zoom and more stable to make shoots.

Affordable: the HD version against the iPhone (and that's fair comparison) is not. Let me quote you: 279.99 u$s.
Dispposable: REALLY? This relegates the device to a "kids only" thing. They better listen to you at Cisco and make the Flip a toy.
Simple?? iPhone is using iMovie which is incredibly simple to use and elegant. So you can edit and send the movie via the iPhone without the need of another software installed or another computer. No, it is NOT simpler than the iPhone.

Let me tell you WHY it is a FLIP KILLER


The Flip is the size of a PHONE. So you can compare the two and think: Why to have a phone AND a FLIP when by spending ONLY 50 u$s I can have a NEW SHINY PHONE TOO! And it's HD!!! Almost the same specs on both related to video, plus the iPhone has a lot of things more. I hopefully find the FlipHD at 99 or lower to make it a fare comparison. From the same device I can edit the video with an easy to use yet elegant tool everybody knows: the iMovie From the same device I can SHARE my videos sending them with a variety of methods everybody already knows. No need of another software to extract the media from the device.
If I have to by a camcorder, and -according to you- I am just 50$ away of a new phone I will by the iPhone and give my old phone to my kids instead.

The iPhone might be competing with Android phones, Simbian or RIM, but it is DEFINITELY A FLIP KILLER!
@TristanGrimaux
Consider this simply:
1) you want a HD camera thats relatively cheap BUY flip
2) you want a HD camera and ipod BUY the next Ipod TOUCH (Only if mic is there too cause it better be!)
3) You want a smart phone and HD camera BUY a Iphone 4

also i am pretty sure the flip will have the market were people dont want to buy a $700 (with no term) phone or buy it for $200 and be stuck with a Minimum $80/month for a decent data and messenging plan. Because here in canada our mobile networks rip us off twice as much as they do in the states if you have a smart phone you NEED a data plan (TELUS/BELL) the exception is pay and talk on Bell and rogers but id rather pay monthly also YES it does cost $80/month for the iphone to get 1GB of data and 2200 (NOTE: NO UNLIMITED TEXTING WITH IPHONES) texts.

In my opinion go for next ipod touch and a cell phone
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That's a good point you have there...
TristanGrimaux 8th Jun 2010
@kd342002 How much will cost the new iPod?
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Sharing videos
deepee912 8th Jun 2010
ATT stock holders are in love with you!

>>>>?From the same device I can SHARE my videos sending them with a variety of methods everybody already knows.
@deepee912 I am an ATT stock holder myself... wink
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I flipped out my Flip ... was taking a video ... tried to call my friend on the Flip and share the video with him ... but couldn't figure out haw to do it? Can you tell me how to do it with my Flip?
1. Technically true - although no one will be purchasing an iPhone only to capture video. This is like saying it's better to buy a $2.00 calculator than to buy a $199 iPhone. One could argue it's better to have video recording included for free in the phone they're already going to buy.

2. I'm not sure if this is a price argument or a security argument. Either way, many give their hand-me-down phone to their children rather than disposing of it, and they can very simply wipe personal data from it.

3. I agree, the iPhone could be more difficult to use. It could be argued though, that it is simpler to carry one device with you than it is to carry two.
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for a little while anyways...
BenInBlack 8th Jun 2010
I think you're right the Flip will be fine for a little while yet: but, this is only because the device is targeted to a very specific market segment; this means increased growth speed, and fast success, but overall a shorter product life cycle.

The flip focuses on portable anywhere video recording, while the iDevices offer many more features(video, pictures, music, games, sharing, etc) that suit multiple market segments, and a much larger market overall. So, devices like the iPhone, and iPod Nano have to eventually overcome the Flip simply because they are targeted to a larger market that has much more potential.

It is only a matter of time before the Flip goes into decline, and the iDevices will likely experience strong growth until well after the Flip gets killed.
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DSLR and Hybrids
BigTipper 8th Jun 2010
Well, I've had my share of digital cameras and camcorders, and I think with the higher res cameras included in phones, their days are numbered. BUT, I am still planning on buying a DSLR or one of the new hybrids, as the quality from most of the phone cameras is still lacking. 720p video, not yet 1080p, and the aperature is so small that low light performance still sucks. And don't get me started with the little LED "flash" that they stick on phones; Useless!

While I can use my phone camera a lot more than I used to, it still doesn't do it all. I'm sure it will, within a few years, but it's not quite there yet.
@BigTipper For taking photos a DSLR is just perfect: don't forget the interchangeable lens, they are a must. But they are bulky and heavy. And for the still cameras that take hd videos remember that they need special gear to make them shoot steady and well.
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honestly, the flip is too complicated.
shadfurman 8th Jun 2010
Most cameras are! I either want a point and shoot, that is LITERALLY point and shoot. No waiting for it to turn on, no HD, multi-touch view finder, not exposure lock or manual focus. OR I want an SLR where EVERYTHING is adjustable. The halfway between just pisses me off, no one does halfway well. A point and shoot SHOULD be/give, RAW data so I can fix it on the computer, plenty of storage to store RAW or vast amounts of pictures from a week long vaca. And, this is important, be water proof. Whats the point of having a point and shoot if you can't drop it in a mud puddle, let your teething child suck on it and shoot the graduation some idiot thought would be a good idea to have outdoors, in spring... in oregon. >:-( I don't want to pay an extra $100 for a bulky optional waterproof case, if you point... and... shoot, there shouldn't be many places to leak. I've waterproofed many devices with some silicone and balloon rubber, but I don't want to have too. Besides... silicone probably isn't great for the kid when she manages to chew it outta the seams.
A Canon IXUS 100 IS, for example (Canon Powershot SD780 in the U.S.) outperforms the Flip MinoHD in HD video recording. It's one of a range of models available, in attractive colours too. Higher quality lens, optical image stabilisation while filming, 25Mbit h.264 720p 30fps video. And they can be had for cheaper. And they do good stills too.

So yeah, if you were thinking of a Flip MinoHD there's already better alternatives.
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I'm selling my Flip Mino HD TODAY
jpswhtx Updated - 10th Jun 2010
It IS a FLIP KILLER, how can it NOT be? If the video quality is the same on the new Iphone (which I'm getting) then the Flip has been made OBSOLETE. Why would anyone pay $230 (as I did in February) for a Flip HD camera when their buddy has the same thing on their PHONE?

I'm asking $150 for my Flip on Craigslist, someone has offered $130, and it's still mint. I really love it, but why would hold on to obsolete gadgets when I can "flip" them and use that cash to buy an all inclusive device?

Won't hand it to your kids? Huh? That's a stretch I'm afraid.
the tech speakers are not true tech's at all apparently, the truth is these devices the editors and sheeple following them are talking up (as you try and find justifications for your buying habits etc) are actually Not HD devices at all never mind true real-time HD 16:9 ratio "High Profile" Level 4.1 AVC/H.264 high visual quality Encoder devices...

the simple fact is the newest Iphone 4 has a crappy antiquated old 3:2 ratio 960 by 640 screen SAR 1.5 at 614,400 Pixels, no were near a real basic 16:9 ratio 1280 by 720 SAR 1.778 921,600 Pixels HD, never mind the real 16:9 ratio 1920 by 1080 SAR 1.778 2,073,600 Pixels, and why compare this lacking real HD Video quality to the flip iv no idea, as while that device has a real 16:9 ratio 1280x720 Sensor, neather of them ACTUALLY USE/Encodes their video in real HD 16:9 ratio, OR actually try and use the only real and current high quality option Today "high Profile" AVC/H.264 Encoding, they are using some crappier old "main profile mp4 part10 H.264 or worse " the antiquated and fuzzy 2006 "baseline profile" AVC/H.264, if that's above your head, its crap and no were near Today's generic "high Profile" X264 Encoder HD visual quality for a given content.

the simple fact is know what your actually getting and do not call these devices HD at all, insist the PR and sales people stop re-inventing the HD label and have them Actually sell you something real HD using "High Profile" and Real 16:9 ratio in the next iteration's 6 months from now.... i might actually look at any of those true 16:9 ratio high profile AVC things if they become actual real devices, and you can actually buy them sometime soon in your area of the world (I.e Not just a far off US of A district, were 90% + of the world's tech buying population do not actually live).

see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_common_resolutions for some basic resolutions and generic ratio's , and educate yourselves against the PR/sales people telling you anything just to try and sell you all their antiquated junk with spin.
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The flip is not waterproof...
depot5000 10th Jun 2010
...and as an owner of both a flip (MinoHD), and an iPhone (3G) I can say this: The flip feels cheap and plastic - in fact it broke less than 6 months after I bought it. It has a lot of great features, but the software is buggy, and frankly it feels like a toy.

Apple products feel substantial, like they're worth the money you pay. I've been much harder on my iPhone than I ever was on my flip, and it's never given me any trouble.

Also - Flip customers service was not at all helpful when my device broke. It was outside the 90 day warranty period, so I was basically out $180 with a small, lightweight, plastic brick in my hand.

Apple customer service is outstanding - I've never had trouble getting help. I may wind up out of luck, but they seem to care about me as a customer along the way. Flip/Cisco couldn't have cared less.
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broken records on ZDNET...
Snooki_smoosh_smoosh 10th Sep 2010
Why does any device need to spell doom for another?

Some devices, like the iOS based devices, or even Android based devices, etc, are good for quick and dirty photos, video, and the sort. But let's be clear, none of these devices will ever take away the need from a good dedicated camera.

Nothing but sensationalism. Another slow day at ZDNET?

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