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Christopher Dawson

Google's ongoing China struggles

By | March 22, 2011, 11:01pm PDT

Summary: How do walk away from the fastest growing market in the world? Can any company afford to ignore a billion potential users?

What do you do when the most important market in the world also happens to be controlled by an oppressive, communist regime with a miserable human rights record? If you’re General Motors, you very carefully begin selling cars and find success by partnering with the right Chinese companies and bending over backwards to comply with Chinese law. If you’re Google, you rattle your sabres and try to maintain your “don’t be evil” brand, while still ensuring that several hundred million potential users can access your vast array of services unfettered.

Good luck with that.

I’ve said before that Google actually should walk away from this market until changes sweep through China in the same way they’ve swept through the Middle East. The human spirit is such that people eventually say enough is enough. Staying in China simply exposes Google and the data with which its countless customers worldwide entrust it to unacceptable risks and scrutiny. The PR isn’t too hot either.

And yet…The country has over a billion people in it. A billion. Like a thousand millions. And change. All of whom should really be clicking on ads when they Google something rather than when they, ummm, Baidu something.

This week, Google has claimed that the Chinese government is blocking Gmail, among other core Google services. The Guardian reports that

A Google spokesman told the Guardian this week: “Relating to Google, there is no [technical] issue on our side. We have checked extensively. This is a government blockage carefully designed to look like the problem is with Gmail.”

The Chinese government, for its part, calls this accusation unacceptable. Whatever that means.

If you know that Google is constantly under government surveillance, access to your email and other cloud-based data will frequently be interrupted by government hackers, and that the service will either be unreliable or get you thrown into jail, how often will you be Googling? Why would you use Gmail? I have tens of thousands of emails in my Gmail account; interrupting access even to my personal account would be crippling on many fronts.

So why stick around? Why does Google continue to dump resources and efforts into what seems to be a lost cause? The next conflict over some service or some degree of censorship is right around the corner. Is it worth it? How about Google redirects those resources to making Google Docs fidelity match that of Office365? Or finally get a social network right?

Because the last time the World Bank checked (2009), there were 1,331,460,000 people living in China. Can any company afford to walk away from a market like that, no matter how flawed and difficult it might be. All of us have spent longer than we should in a dysfunctional relationship sometime in our lives hoping that the other party would change.

The thing here is that China just might change. A so-called Jasmine Revolution won’t happen this year and probably won’t happen next year. But communist, Draconian regimes have a habit of eventually crumbling. And wouldn’t Google just be kicking itself if it bailed out of China 6 months or a year before the Great Firewall fell like a 21st century Berlin Wall?

Should Google stay in China or cut its losses and get out? Talk back and let me know what you think.

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Topics

Chris Dawson is a freelance writer and consultant with years of experience in educational technology and web-based systems. In 2011, he became the Vice President of Marketing for WizIQ, Inc., a virtual classroom and learning network SaaS provider.

Disclosure

Christopher Dawson

Christopher Dawson is the Vice President of Marketing for WizIQ, Inc., by day and a freelance writer and educational technology consultant by night. Well, most of his colleagues at WizIQ are based in India, so really he's working with them whenever he can stay awake. He has worked for his local school district as a teacher and technology director, for the Johns Hopkins University School of Public Health, and for Biogen, Inc. (now Biogen-IDEC, Inc.). He has also consulted with STATNet and Cytyc Corporation and retains close ties with X2 Development Corporation (now owned by Follett Software, the supplier of the student information system he administered for several years). Follett is paying him a monthly honorarium to act as a presenter for their "SIS Voices for Student Achievement" community (he produces occasional blog posts and hosts a monthly webinar on the use of student information systems to inform data-driven instruction and school-wide change. He regularly purchases and/or recommends Dell hardware. This is because Dell makes good hardware and has truly committed itself to education in innovative ways, particularly with their "Connected Classroom" initiative. It isn't because he has dealings with the company through his role at WizIQ (which he does) or because they have provided him with long-term loans of a variety of equipment for in-depth testing (which they have). Intel (reference designer for the Classmate PCs he has implemented in his local schools) has provided him with long-term loans of Classmate PCs for testing, as have Dell and Lenovo with their educational offerings. He may report on any of these companies as his experiences with them have direct bearing on educational technology; positive reports are not necessarily an endorsement and he receives no direct financial compensation from these companies or any others. Intel paid all expenses for his attendance at the 2009 Intel Classmate PC Ecosystem Summit which he attended as the sole representative of the technology press. He was invited to attend in 2010 but his wife would have killed him if he spent 3 days in Vegas geeking out and left her home alone with a new baby. Acer provided him with a 50% discount on an Aspire One netbook in early 2009 after he tested it for 30 days through their educational seed program. He liked the netbook at the time but it has since broken and sits unused in his office. Canonical sent him Ubuntu lanyards, t-shirts, and mousepads for his kids. He stole one of the lanyards and proudly hangs his keys from it and occasionally features his 8-year old wearing an oversized Ubuntu t-shirt on his Facebook profile. Gunnar Optiks sent him a pair of computer glasses to evaluate for a holiday gift guide. He is wearing them now as he types this because they never asked for them back and they rock out loud. Seriously - they work brilliantly and make it much easier to spend 20 hours a day staring at an LCD. If they ever asked for them back, he would fork over the $99 and buy a pair. Microsoft gave him 2 free copies of Office 2010 professional, a desktop clock, and a useless book on Office 2010 when he attended the launch of Office/Sharepoint 2010. He occasionally uses the SharePoint lanyard they gave him instead of the Ubuntu lanyard for his keys, but feels dirty afterwards. Adobe provided him with a pre-release version of the CS5 Master Collection for evaluation and ultimately provided a full, licensed copy for ongoing testing of educational applications of this admittedly expensive software. Like the Gunnars, if the license expires or they come out with CS6, he'd actually go out and buy it himself. Which is saying something, because he's actually pretty cheap. Any other companies wishing to send him cool things to evaluate, wear, or otherwise adorn his kids are more than welcome to; he promises to disclose it here if he keeps any of the stuff. Finally, because WizIQ is a virtual classroom and learning network provider, Chris, as VP of Marketing, frequently interacts with, seeks out deals with, and directly or indirectly competes with a whole lot of LMS, SIS, and other Education 2.0 companies. In general, he'll limit his reporting about these companies to news that does not impact his relationship with them or with WizIQ. If he reports on them, it's because what they are doing is newsworthy or worth the attention of his readers and not because he's trying to broker some deal, damage competition, or otherwise advance his position in his day job. LMS and SIS companies, along with other online learning communities, are a pretty important part of Ed Tech. If he stops reporting on them completely, there won't be a whole lot left. He'll be sure to call out any overt conflicts of interest if they are unavoidable. Finally, Follett Software Company pays him a little tiny honorarium every month to present on their SIS Voices webinars and to write the occasional blog or discussion thread for them. Since Follett recently bought X2 (maker of an awesome web-based SIS that Chris just happened to have used, served in advisory groups for, and frequently reported on), this is probably also worth disclosing.

Biography

Christopher Dawson

Christopher Dawson grew up in Seattle, back in the days of pre-antitrust Microsoft, coffeeshops owned by something other than Starbucks, and really loud, inarticulate music. He escaped to the right coast in the early 90's and received a degree in Information Systems from Johns Hopkins University. While there, he began a career in health and educational information systems, with a focus on clinical trials and related statistical programming and database modeling. This focus led him to several positions at Johns Hopkins, a couple-year stint in private industry, teaching high school math and technology, and 2 years as the technology director for his local school district. Most recently, he started his own consulting business and is now the Vice President of Marketing for WizIQ, Inc., a virtual classroom and learning network provider. He lives with his wife, five kids (yes, 5), 2 dogs, and a hateful cat in a small town in north-central Massachusetts. Although he is no longer teaching, his roles with WizIQ and ZDNet allow him to continue helping students and teachers add value to education with technology rather than merely adding to the bottom line.
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RE: Google's ongoing China struggles
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RE: Google's ongoing China struggles
tatiGmail 22nd Mar 2011
I don't know if abandoning the people is the right thing to do. Provide the service, and let the gvt. do what they want. Exiting China would plunge the Chinese in an even darker age than they are in today.
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In this world there are three very large third world countries.

China / India / Brazil

Unlike all the rest, leaving any of these to their own fate will cause more problems then solutions. And unlike your comment, they are not in the dark ages, they are technically very capable.

If left alone, they can become a disruptive force that can provide solutions beyond what we currently have. Of all of these, China and Brazil have the most innovation. India does a lot of development, but their culture constraints their development to certain areas.

Make no mistake about it, these countries have some very smart people that soon will have the means to compete internationally, something that was reserved to US and Western countries for decades.

Its best to have a presence in China and in all these other countries because you can tap into their talent. Without that they will become powerful in a regional sense (China has gone global already and Brazil/India are already regional power economically / technically and otherwise). So pulling out is a bad move for Google and a risky move for the West.

And all of this beyond the economical view, where China is poised to become the largest market on Earth.
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Are they wealthy dictatorships?
guihombre 23rd Mar 2011
To be a good market, you need lots of wealthy customers, to be a dictatorship you need power and wealth concentrated in a FEW hands.

So yes China may become a great market, but it won't do so as a dictatorship.
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RE: Google's ongoing China struggles
x I'm tc Updated - 23rd Mar 2011
@guihombre

The 400 wealthiest families in the US control more than 60% of the nation's assets. We have greater income disparities here than they do in China, and less upward mobility.

Combine that with the fact that the US government probably has greater access to Google's (and Facebook's, and Yahoo's, and Microsoft's, and MySpace's, and...) servers than the Chinese do, and I think it is hard to make the case that we are still living in a functional, representative democracy.

Google is a spyware company. The Stasi could only have dreamed of having the kind of information on their population that Google has on you. This may or may not be a bad thing, but it is what it is.
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RE: Google's ongoing China struggles
hoaxoner 23rd Mar 2011
@jdakula
The disparity is greater than that and has grown since the recession.
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RE: Google's ongoing China struggles
SlimSam 23rd Mar 2011
jdakula - "I think it is hard to make the case that we are still living in a functional, representative democracy."

I'm no expert, but I believe that we know more today about what our government is doing than at any point in prior history. Representative democracies will always be subject to manipluation, but they thrive on information. China still has a long way to go before I'd prefer to live there instead of USA.
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RE: Google's ongoing China struggles
x I'm tc 23rd Mar 2011
@SlimSam

This is a really hard thing to be quantitative about, but in general, the Chinese are a lot more satisfied with the way their country is going than Americans are with ours. That is to say, a much greater proportion of Chinese are truly *glad* to be Chinese than Americans are glad to be American. However, we are a particularly miserable bunch, I think, being a highly individualistic country (maybe the most) and individualism being universally recognized as negatively correlated with life satisfaction.

Here's one such index: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Planet_Index

Again, I accept totally that these measures are equivocal. But the idea that we are somehow better off then our Chinese counterparts, their lack of certain freedoms not withstanding, is at the least highly debatable.

However, because I *am* an American, I can't imagine being anything else. But had I been born Chinese, I'm not so sure I'd be wishing I was who I am in this life. Just don't know...

As for how much we know about our government, I would argue that, while much information is out there, we are also woefully (and intentionally) misinformed. Case in point: the argument that CPB should be defunded because NPR and PBS have liberal biases. Pure FUD.
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Happiness
WilErz 24th Mar 2011
@ jdakula

The 'Happy Planet Index' isn't an index of happiness or life satisfaction. It looks at happiness as a function of ecological footprint, so either higher happiness or a lower ecological footprint will lead to a higher index value. It's unfortunately been calibrated in such a way that the ecological footprint dominates. The countries at the top tend to be underdeveloped countries with warm climates -- which implies low ecological footprints -- rather than particularly happy countries. The calibration is all very subjective, so I don't think the HPI is particularly meaningful (even if the idea is interesting).

On indices of actual happiness or life satisfaction, developed countries (with their large ecological footprints) tend to dominate: there's a pretty clear positive correlation between income and happiness. If there's any correlation between individuality and happiness, I'd say it's actually a positive one too: the more individualistic countries tend to be happier. Based on Hofstede's results, for example, the English-speaking countries all tend to be very individualistic, with Australia (90), the UK (89) and the US (91) at the top. However, the next most individualistic countries would be Northern European (the Scandinavian countries and the Netherlands). Lists of the happiest countries tend to be dominated by Northern European countries, with other individualistic countries like Australia, Canada, New Zealand and Switzerland often doing well too.
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RE: Google's ongoing China struggles
misterHippo 22nd Mar 2011
Google Being google, what is the benefit of staying? when it could waltz in one, two or six months after the sweeping change, and still be a market leader?
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RE: Google's ongoing China struggles
facebook@... 23rd Mar 2011
@misterHippo ???? But it is not a market leader in China, Baidu is. And, for some of the services that we are talking about, it is not a market leader in the US either. Although they are in the two 2 or 3 positions for advertising supported email in the US, they are a distant also-ran for enterprise mail and collaboration. They may never recover if they leave China now and Baidu will secure a stronger foothold.
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Baidu is rubbish
guihombre Updated - 23rd Mar 2011
http://www.baidu.com/

Try it, Baidu is just rubbish. Enterprise mail and 'collaboration' i.e. cloud services is just US centric marketing fluff.
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RE: Google's ongoing China struggles
facebook@... 23rd Mar 2011
@guihombre

What you are saying does not change a thing.

Baidu is the dominant market leader in China.
I agree that enterprise mail and collaboration is just marketing fluff at this time from a Google perspective. Google is an advertising company and their primary customers are advertisers, not enterprise customers. However what this story is talking about is gmail and Google apps (i.e. cloud services).
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RE: Google's ongoing China struggles
bobdoe123 23rd Mar 2011
@misterHippo

Good luck waiting for a collapse of the Chinese government in the next 6 months happy From Pew Research:

China is clearly the most self-satisfied country. Nearly nine-in-ten Chinese are happy with the direction of their country (87%), feel good about the current state of their economy (91%) and are optimistic about China's economic future (87%). Moreover, 64% of Chinese have a very favorable view of their own country, a self regard that exceeds that among Americans (48%), Russians (43%), Germans (12%) and Brazilians (31%).
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RE: Google's ongoing China struggles
FormerGooglerFromChina 23rd Mar 2011
Whether Google gets to ?play? China again, folks in Mt. View MUST not repeat the same mistake the it committed when it first entered into China, in 2005. The company MUST find a capable in-country person; someone other than the ?me only? and promotion minded, but technically hallow Kai-fu Lee it first installed some 5 years ago.

Gooigle is, and will always be a engineering centric company. Having an ex-Microsft reject in the helm of its China operation was the single biggest miskate by Eric Schmidt. If not for his continuing support, Kai-fu Lee?s tenure wouldn?t lasted as long; and damage done in China wouldn?t be as lingering! Most Googlers got the sense that Sergey / Larry never liked Kaifu Lee. Eric Schmidt was his ?godfather? all along. With Kaifu Lee long gone after pocketing millions, & Mr. Schmidt poised to be name the next Commerce Secretary, Larry / Sergey now has the enviable task of picking up pieces in China. GOOD LUCK!
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RE: Google's ongoing China struggles
VoicesInTheHead 23rd Mar 2011
Are you cribbing about Google not being able to get money from Chinese by clicking on ads? Are you ranting about the human rights in China? Or are you talking about Google 'still' operating in China when it has nothing to gain? Or are you trying to put all of it together to get some kind of sensation out of it?

Why is there no US business running in Iran? I believe it is because of the human rights record in that country? North Korea? Same issue. Why aren?t businesses MADE to leave China which has a 'pathetic' human rights record? Let me think: hypocrisy? Or is it the idea ?if it benefits me, it is good?? (Think of many Arab allies of US and now think of their human rights record.) Is Google really worried about Chinese population not being able to 'enlighten' themselves by using Google services? Or are they worried that they cannot make Chinese use them? Google is RIGHT when they accuse Chinese government while Chinese government calls the accusation unacceptable, it comes down to "Whatever that means". If Google had an ounce of integrity, they would leave and let Chinese decide if they are interested in bringing it back. While Google is at it, it gives you 'tech bloggers' something to write about and feel proud of using the 'freedom'. Wikileaks is harmful for national security. Freedom? Selective.

You should consider leaving these anti-China rants for your politicians to get some votes.
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RE: Google's ongoing China struggles
ALLNSOX 23rd Mar 2011
Hi Chris, you are just as devious and prejudiced as any so called western "journalists", or may I say "transparent"? The practice of selective criticism employed by you is only meant to demonized China based on your biased view point and tinged with the fear of a rising China. Better to nip it in the bud before that happen and a chaotic revolution resulting in a (hopefully) malleable "democracy" will be very handy. Ulterior motive in action.

I always wonder why the so called "professional" and "unbiased" western journalism only criticized China without mentioning the many achievements of China. To the western world China is not a country populated by real people but a faceless entity of disdained and abject irritation to the "world order" of western domination; probably like a unpleasant pest. Chinese people are only pawns in the political machination for world dominance and propaganda is a better option with guns, "I make you destroy and kill yourself, thank you very much". WWi, WWii, WWiii (cold war) and now WWiv, the insinuating and dark propaganda war. Google, CNN, BBC, facebook, twitter, youtube and even Al Jazeera are the weapon of choice and journalists the new universal soldiers. You should be ashame of yourself.
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They should probably stay
WilErz 23rd Mar 2011
The framework for commerce is set by governments, not corporations. For a profit maximising corporation, the optimal strategy is probably to stay in China, provided the inevitable violations of their IP aren't too egregious. At the same time, Western governments should aggressively pursue IP violations by Chinese entities via the WTO. This should certainly not be left to corporations that can be 'punished' by the Chinese state.

Western firms operating in China should of course fully abide by Chinese law within China (only people as arrogant as Google's management could imagine it should be otherwise), but they shouldn't allow Chinese restrictions to degrade the quality of their products/services outside of China. As with IP violations, Western governments (not firms) should react aggressively, and in unison, to any malicious activities by the Chinese state (or Chinese corporations) that target Western firms.
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RE: Google's ongoing China struggles
ALLNSOX 23rd Mar 2011
@WilErz = they should probably just leave if it is such as STRUGGLE.

If you don't like the system, just go. Google is now turning into another CNN in the eyes of the Chinese people and deservedly so.

87% of the Chinese is proud of their country, how many American feel that way about the US ? 20% ?

So Google is now going to change the feeling of the Chinese about China ? Propaganda warfare ? Oops .... I shouldn't have said it so loudly.
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@ ALLNSOX

I'm not sure you understand my point. If they want to maximise profit, Google should probably stay in China, and stop fighting the Chinese state and the CPC. If they want to fight the Chinese state and the CPC (a crazy idea in my view, and certainly not a profit maximising one), then yes, they should leave.

One thing you really have to understand in all of this is that the high degree of overlap between the state/party and firms that exists in China doesn't exist in the US (or the West generally, although there is some variation). Google are a private firm and have nothing to do with the US state or US policy. Google are attacking the Chinese state and the CPC because Page, Brin and Schmidt don't agree with Chinese state policies, not because of any orders from the US government.

Given Eric Schmidt's clear anti-China bias (not to mention obvious biases concerning other technology firms, and his dubious decision to stay on Apple's board even as Google were preparing to challenge Apple's iOS with Android), I think Obama would be mad to appoint him as US Commerce Secretary. It would send the worst possible signal to Chinese who often don't understand the separation of industry and the state that generally prevails in the West. Being in the EU, a Chinese backlash against the US over such an appointment wouldn't affect me directly, but good trade relations are in everyone's interests.
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National pride
WilErz 23rd Mar 2011
@ ALLNSOX

Speaking of 'national pride', in the Nazi era, Germans tended to be extremely proud of Germany. In modern Germany, by contrast, there's very little of this sort of nationalism (and the same applies to a lesser extent across most of Europe). I much prefer the latter environment to the former. What does it even mean to be 'proud' of a country?

Stirring up nationalism (often by pointing to imaginary foreign or domestic enemies) is something authoritarian one-party states put a great deal of effort into. The reason is that it's the easiest way to cement their legitimacy in the public view, and thus to control the population. The CPC certainly appear to be good at controlling the Chinese, but their actions (and in some cases words) imply they believe this control relies on maintaining 10 per cent annual GDP growth rates. (Maybe they're right. I've no idea.)
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RE: Google's ongoing China struggles
blinded1 23rd Mar 2011
@ALLNSOX
"how many American feel that way about the US ? 20% ?"

At least, one is becoming so only when her husband was nominated as president candidate.
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I agree (almost)
John L. Ries 24th Mar 2011
@WilErz
"Western firms operating in China should of course fully abide by Chinese law within China (only people as arrogant as Google's management could imagine it should be otherwise), but they shouldn't allow Chinese restrictions to degrade the quality of their products/services outside of China."

Says me, that's not possible. In any case, China is much more likely to make progress to something other than a Communist dictatorship with an economy dominated by native entrepreneurs, than with one dominated by foreign corporations. If full cooperation with the secret police is the price for doing business in China, then western corporations should leave. If it causes adverse economic consequences inside of China, then maybe the Communist authorities will be compelled to take a softer line.
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What you, I or anyone in the US says
NoAxToGrind 23rd Mar 2011
They should do is meaningless.
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Were that true...
John L. Ries 25th Mar 2011
@NoAxToGrind
...then I think the Chinese government would be less concerned about adverse publicity. To the contrary... the comrades in Beijing care very much what you and I think and say, which is why we have lots of "patriotic" posters in this forum protesting every time someone says anything bad about the Chinese government.
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Libya vs China vs Google
guihombre 23rd Mar 2011
Look at Libya, Gadaffi is suppressing protests with snipers, whilst trying to convince his own people that the majority back him with orchestrated parades. A simple deception. But to do this he needs tight control of the media, of the internet, of access to information.

Originally his army wouldn't fight, their planes would miss their targets deliberately, they'd drop a bomb, miss a junction, the people would flee the junction, then they'd drop a second bomb on the (now empty) junction.

To convince his army to fight, he had to convince them that he had won already by claiming to have taken the rebel towns when he had not:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12658405

He was able to do this only because he controls the media in Libya. HE NEEDS TO DECEIVE HIS OWN ARMY.

So China fears free flow of information, but to suppress information they need the cooperation of major US corporations.

In the long run China will flip, it cannot control information forever. If you were Chinese would you trusts the companies that kept the dictators in power over you? Would you use their services then? I think not.

This 'wiki-democracy' is spreading across Asia too. Thailand, has released opposition leaders, this after it used snipers to kill them Gadaffi style, then called them terrorists, and threw them in prison. Still no elections, still a military dictatorship, but a SCARED military dictatorship afraid of the people.

In Iran, first thing Abudinhajad did was send his ships to near Israel hoping for a reaction to unify his people under him. He also sent arms to Afghanistan knowing they would be intercepted. He's afraid, he's trying to make Iran a pariah state to keep the us vs them mentality.

All these people in all these dictatorships will still be around when their dictators have gone. But they won't trust the companies and services that cooperated with the dictator.

As a long term strategy, I would say, go. Google are better off focusing on more profitable markets. When these dictatorships collapse, they will be in a great position to enter those markets.
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RE: Google's ongoing China struggles
ConfusedConfucian 23rd Mar 2011
I think Google may be more a victim of its naivet? and hubris than of the Chinese government. The whole ?don?t be evil? ?brand? presupposes that Google?s definition of evil is the only acceptable definition and, that Google?s definition is uncorrupted by corporate self interest. ?Evil? is in the eye of the beholder. The Western worldview stressing the rights of the individual over the rights of the community or society is foreign to many Asian societies.
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Stop your aggrogance
zismos 23rd Mar 2011
I strongly feel that some people should keep their arrogance in check. Please, do not assume that you are the Christ for people in other countries. I implore you! We had lived quite well for thousands of years until some people tried to teach us how to smoke opium. Iraq suffered much less casualty under Saddam's regime than in the last ten years, not to mention the damage caused to everything in the country.
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Then perhaps...
John L. Ries Updated - 24th Mar 2011
@zismos
...China would be well advised to abandon foreign ideologies like Marxism/Leninism (or in China's case, nominally Marxist Leninism) and to not rely on foreign investment to build its economy.

Just a thought. In any case, sovereignty does not confer immunity from criticism.
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Agree!
laowaiblog 23rd Mar 2011
Nice article. I agree that google should exit China, and not a moment too soon. There is one problem though, that there are many expats and other google users who will just stop using google. Is it worth it? We don't know, but google might be getting to the point where it simply doesn't care.

http://laowaiblog.com
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RE: Google's ongoing China struggles
bobdoe123 23rd Mar 2011
@laowaiblog
Right, like Google cares now. Pissing off the CCP is not going to help Google to grow its business in China and it well knows it. Google is trying to earn brownie points with its larger markets (USA, Europe, etc...) at the cost of doing business in China: torchbearer of democracy against communist China -- popular theme these days.
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RE: Google's ongoing China struggles
bobdoe123 23rd Mar 2011
@laowaiblog
Right, like Google cares now. Pissing off the CCP is not going to help Google to grow its business in China and it well knows it. Google is trying to earn brownie points with its larger markets (USA, Europe, etc...) at the cost of doing business in China: torchbearer of democracy against communist China -- popular theme these days.
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RE: Google's ongoing China struggles
wallace_marke@... 23rd Mar 2011
It's extremely difficult for any company to pass up on such a HUGE potential market--That being said, a company that does fore go China due to its autocratic behavior is certainly to be commended IMHO in that profits are ethically moot when it comes human-right violations.
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I don't think so...
Naryan 23rd Mar 2011
Well I live in China and am writing this from inside the Great Firewall now (with a good VPN of course) and until you've lived in China and experienced the people here, it's very easy to say "soon they'll won't put up with it any more". The fact is, is may happen, but it will take a long, long time more than you think. I'm 18 and I don't expect to live to see it. The people here are happy. They've been told to be happy, and they are.
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RE: Google's ongoing China struggles
bobdoe123 23rd Mar 2011
@Naryan

"They've been told to be happy, and they are."

Will you shut the hell up if I told you to?
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RE: Google's ongoing China struggles
ALLNSOX 24th Mar 2011
@Naryan

only if you can say give him a big screen TV, a new car, an apartment and yearly holiday ... i am sure he will... can you ???
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Chinese are not holding their breath
bobdoe123 Updated - 23rd Mar 2011
Last time I checked, Google is in the business of making money, and not some torchbearer for democracy. It failed to gain any traction in China because it could not compete against the likes of Baidu. All this nonsense over moving out of China to Hong Kong because of accused hacking from the Chinese government is pure fluff -- how does locality prevent any Internet connected server from being hacked?

And now this funny business with Gmail is just another example how Google is trying to earn sympathy points with its larger markets at the cost of doing business in China; flogging the communist Chinese government seems to be in vogue lately.

Google, time to stop whining and leave. If not, and you keep up with your shenanigans, the Chinese government will kick you out sooner than later.
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RE: Google's ongoing China struggles
alithanikkal 23rd Mar 2011
Human rights doesn't matter when the rulers are ready to bend in front of US - saudi arabia and 20 other gulf countries, and it matters when the rulers insist on being their own - china, north korea and iran. c'mmon guys get out of the cocoon, world can clearly see the double standards!
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Google idiots
WINSTON982 24th Mar 2011
No one cared if google left or came back. It's just an idiotic bluff which ended up going down a destructive path. Google's attempt to publicly antagonize and embarrass a country worldwide is doomed for failure. Plus, Hillary's overt generalization of U.S. internet freedom needs to be retracted because Wikileaks is not free and is still being hunted by the U.S. government.
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And not only does my gmail work fine but many Chinese businesses here have gmail addresses for their business and they seem to be fine too.
Is this some form of beat up?
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RE: Google's ongoing China struggles
MichaelinArizona_2008 25th Mar 2011
Don't walk away from China. Just keep playing the game. It's irritating and it takes time and is one more hassle but just keep plugging away. This is their mindset and they use it all the time and use it well. You use it too. When China's people have had enough and they take the big freedom plunge they will be better off with Google and others still there plugging away no matter how many obstacles China put's in your way. I'm just saying...lol
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China merits attention
VytautasB@... 31st Mar 2011
China is a cyber super power that includes the use of cyber weapons and techniques in its military doctrine. It allready has a bad cyber reputation. The Google incidents are just one of many examples that range from "Titan rain" to the mysterious Internet outages (DNS redirections) that were caused last year by accident (twice) by one of its Telecom/ISP's. While there is no 100 per cent proof on who is behind these events the circumstantial evidence alone is enough to merit our concern.
China Telecom with has links to the government has been up to some mischief lately. For more read http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/23/facebook_traffic_china_telecom/
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RE: Google's ongoing China struggles
james347 3rd Apr 2011
Message has been deleted.
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