Revisiting Wikileaks/Lamo and why antiwar fascists suck

By | June 21, 2010, 7:43am PDT

Summary: There are some question about the details of Lamo’s involvement, Manning’s actions, and Wikileak’s role in all of this.

Last week, I wrote about the odd story of U.S. Army intelligence analyst Bradley Manning. He apparently passed classified secrets to Wikileaks, a site dedicated to releasing “sensitive materials” to the public.

I wrote about the moral and ethical issues Wikileaks needs to deal with in order to be good citizens of society. I also wrote about the strange story of Manning’s contact with noted hacker Adrian Lamo.

Blogging is a different sort of process than investigative research. When I wrote my book about White House email, I spent a year on that project. I spent a full six months writing just the first third of How To Save Jobs. But when I write a blog post, I generally have less than a day to put a story together.

So, when I wrote my story on Wikileaks and Lamo last week, I took details from trusted sources, like Wired Magazine and The New York Times. Since I didn’t have the time to investigate every detail, I linked back to the original stories so you could follow the trail as far as you wanted.

As it turns out, there are some question about the details of Lamo’s involvement, Manning’s actions, and Wikileak’s role in all of this. The whole mess seems to have become something of a cause célèbre for certain antiwar protesters.

I learned of this because I started to get threatening email messages from these so-called peace-lovers. I find the cognitive disconnect between the idea that people claim to want peace and yet advocate violence to be strange in the extreme. It’s as baffling as people who call themselves “pro life” and then go off and murder doctors.

In any case, the antiwar crowd apparently set about doing their best to debunk my ethical analysis article, which basically said that Wikileaks needed to have some ethics in order to prevent possible loss of life.

The antiwar mafia started by extracting sentences from my article and misrepresenting them on various Web sites. For example, I said something to the effect of “you might think blah, but that would be simplistic” and they wrote “he’s simplistic because he says blah”.

On both Web sites and in email messages, they tried to debunk my analysis by discussing my upbringing, my family, my professional affiliations, my appearance (yes, I know, I have a face for radio), making anti-Semitic comments, and even criticizing the nonprofit I volunteer for — whose only crime against humanity has been trying to help create jobs for Americans.

(Last week was interesting…I got a similar spew of hate mail for an article I wrote about buying an iPad. The Apple fanboy hate mail was a little less threatening and far more stylish, but, still…people are craazy!)

The weird thing is I’m not particularly in favor of war. Most military and national security people aren’t. I think the Iraq war was highly inadvisable, and I’m deeply concerned that Afghanistan has turned into the longest war in American history. It’s weird. You’d think that if the antiwar fascists wanted me to see their side, they might want to find out if I already do — and not set about doing their best to portray me as the enemy.

These are important issues and difficult times. We need to discuss these issues, look at them from all sides, and evaluate them based on their individual merits. When sites with particular political leanings take real information and distort it simply for the purpose of feeding red meat to their audiences, that diminishes all our efforts. It’s disappointing and ill-advised.

Fortunately, not everyone is nuts. On Friday, a reader sent me a link to a story in Salon by attorney Glenn Greenwald. Greenwald poses many solid questions about Lamo’s story and the veracity of the entire situation.

Greenwald does a rather thorough investigation into the Lamo/Wikileaks issue and concludes that the details don’t fully make sense when taken as a whole. It’s an interesting and thorough piece of writing. While his bias is somewhat suspect (Salon, like Huffington Post is notoriously liberal — and I don’t trust liberal bias anymore than I trust conservative bias like you’d see on Fox News), his investigation is worth reading.

I’m not going to revisit my analysis of Wikileaks’ ethics. I stand by my statement that they must sometimes refrain from releasing certain things they get their hands on, and some consideration needs to be made as to the effect of their actions. I also stand by my statement that Wikileaks is doing important work and should be protected — unless they put lives at risk.

But I do think it’s worth looking at these issues from all sides. I also think it’s worth realizing that everything may not be as it first seems. While I can’t tell you whether the Wired account is more accurate than the Salon account, I can now tell you the Manning/Lamo/Wikileaks story is curious, unclear, and certainly strange.

Go ahead and comment, but please do try to be civil about it. I’ve had enough hate mail to last me a while.

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David Gewirtz

In addition to hosting the ZDNet Government and ZDNet DIY-IT blogs, CBS Interactive's Distinguished Lecturer David Gewirtz is an author, U.S. policy advisor, and computer scientist. He is featured in The History Channel special The President's Book of Secrets, is one of America's foremost cyber-security experts, and is a top expert on saving and creating jobs. He is also director of the U.S. Strategic Perspective Institute as well as the founder of ZATZ Publishing.

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@all
JustForWIKILEAKS 2nd Jan 2011
AngerNotManaged is right. And stop using the argumentum ad hominem. IT IS PISSING ME OFF SO MUCH. eg...
"Now I ask you, too, to hold up the mirror before you and your country. Is the picture any better than ours? What if you and your country were in a position of overwhelming power. Would you have used it better? I await your honest answer."

"Funny how you allways spew on about the US, yet never divulge exactlly where you live."

"Should the US decide to take the same operational position as the Muslims, for instance, the rest of the world would already be a US territory."
(btw the Muslims never would destroy a land they conquered. GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT. IGNORANT PEOPLE ARE IGNORANT)
"@AngerNotManaged I am sure that when we withdraw to our own corner of the continent that everyone else will enjoy their time under under the Islamic or Chinese hegemony far more."


And it isn't just Chinese people and Muslims (if I use your logic against you and generalize - 1.3B people living in china, 1.5-1.6B muslims, so around 2-3B ppl? out of the 6.2B ppl in the world LOL.. and thats a small number because for you chinese and muslim people are just the ones who live in the US - the immigrants. a minority, yeah?) who think the US is an oppressor. add vietnam to that group. and cuba. and a lot of the intellectuals in the world. and all the people against the iraq war, afghanistan war, the upcoming iran war... honestly that's all the US does. do you know that financial aid is a lie? as in, fiat money. the federal reserve in the US can just print money whenever it wants to, and give this out to poorer nations. can you eat dollars? or use them as clothing? no, not really. they go into some pockets along the way, and in the end, don't benefit in the slightest.

PLEASE GET OUT OF YOUR DREAM WORLD AND REALIZE THE WORLD =/= THE UNITED STATES.

kthxbai.

the current US is almost like germany during the first world war.. loyal to the government, loyal to the dollar that is made by the federal reserve (which is in fact not even part of your esteemed government - OUTRAGEOUS. it's like this around the world)

i'm very pessimistic about the current state of the world. don't expect the internet to last long, don't expect any of this to last more than another few decades. it's amazing and scary at the same time... all this consumerism generated in about a century.

do you know that the US constitution says:
No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.
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Greenwald's story pokes holes in Lamo's account
HollywoodDog Updated - 21st Jun 2010
"Lamo, however, told me that Manning found him not from the Wired article -- which Manning never mentioned reading -- but from searching the word "WikiLeaks" on Twitter, which led him to a tweet Lamo had written that included the word "WikiLeaks." Even if Manning had really found Lamo through a Twitter search for "WikiLeaks," Lamo could not explain why Manning focused on him, rather than the thousands of other people who have also mentioned the word "WikiLeaks" on Twitter, including countless people who have done so by expressing support for WikiLeaks."

"Why would a 22-year-old Private in Iraq have unfettered access to 250,000 pages of diplomatic cables so sensitive that they "could do serious damage to national security?" Why would he contact a total stranger, whom he randomly found from a Twitter search, in order to "quickly" confess to acts that he knew could send him to prison for a very long time, perhaps his whole life? And why would he choose to confess over the Internet, in an unsecured, international AOL IM chat, given the obvious ease with which that could be preserved, intercepted or otherwise surveilled? These are the actions of someone either unbelievably reckless or actually eager to be caught."

The most obvious answer is that Lamo is a PR obsessed liar, who contacted Manning himself, lied about who he was (claiming to be a "journalist"), convinced Manning to share information with him under false pretenses, and did so either acting as an investigator for the government, or to satisfy his desire to see his own name in print, or some combination of the two.

As Greenwald points out about Manning: "That's a whistleblower in the purest form: discovering government secrets of criminal and corrupt acts and then publicizing them to the world not for profit, not to give other nations an edge, but to trigger "worldwide discussion, debates, and reforms." That's the person that Adrian Lamo informed on and risked sending to prison for an extremely long time."

So unless you are a government agent, with blinders on and a relationship to nuanced reality akin to Dick Cheney's, then asserting that Lamo 'did the right thing' is really out there.

Gerwirtz, like everyone, has to pay the rent, and that often means cozying up to people you don't like very much.

If he now takes the facts that are coming to light about Lamo's misrepresentations and continues to label Lamo as the responsible party, then you have to wonder whether he's being honest, or saying what he needs to say for reasons other than ethical propriety.
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Must See viewing
HollywoodDog 21st Jun 2010
I like to viddy the old films now & again, and this weekend I watched the timely "The Most Dangerous Man in America: Daniel Ellsberg and the Pentagon Papers" (http://www.mostdangerousman.org/)

When Daniel Ellsberg released the Pentagon Papers, he revealed that every president going back to Eisenhower had been systematically lying through their teeth about Vietnam, that they'd all been working in every way possible to get that war started and keep it going, resulting in the deaths of millions of people. The release of the Pentagon Papers exposed as meritless all the arguments the government had been making about the case for the war, and in so doing shortened it, which no doubt saved millions more lives.

The most poignant moment for me was Ellsberg describing his conversion to Ghandi's dictum that noncooperation with evil is a duty.

Is there a shred of doubt in anyone's mind that when - if - our current wars are ever concluded that it will come out in due course that every person in a position of responsibility in our government knows full well that our wars are unwinnable, that the resistance in those countries will never give up, and that continuing the war is simply condemning an endless stream of young Americans to death?

If it makes people feel better to label me a 'fascist' for asking that question, label away.

The wars, for all intents and purposes, were over a long time ago. The handwriting is on the wall. All that's left is the dying.
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Not Fascist
colinnwn 22nd Jun 2010
@HollywoodDog
If people are calling you a fascist, they are wrong, and you should call them on it. It would be hard for a pro-peace person to be a fascist. Neo-con nation builders are more accurately fascist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism
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it will come out in due course that every person in a position of responsibility in our government knows full well that our wars are unwinnable,

Any war is winnable. You just need to be willing to do anything to achieve the victory.

If you're not ready to do that, find a different game.
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And why the battle against Micro$oft will continue....
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Dear Mr. Gewirtz :

(1.) I cannot speak for people posting on your ZDNet blog, who might have engaged in personal attacks or other off-topic, ad hominem or irrelevant statements. All I can honestly say is that I have not done so, nor would any responsible critic who disagreed with the overall message of your original article.

Note that the foregoing does NOT apply to postings by belligerent, right-wing U.S. partisans who post nonsense statements such as "...America will crush you...". Stupid threats like that can be expected to be followed up by equally angry replies. The American right wing is used to a "discussion" in which vitriol on their part, is met with meek, self-apologetic comments by U.S. liberals.

Sorry - in the rest of the world, we don't come to battles where only one side is allowed to fight. We don't play by your self-serving rules of engagement.

(2.) What this whole episode vividly shows, is the huge disconnect between the kind of discourse that goes on internally within the United States - where the only "legitimate" topic for discussion is the MEANS by which the U.S. dominates, invades and despoils the planet, not America's basic MOTIVES in so doing - and the debate in the rest of the world, where your country is very frequently seen as the "bad guy", the aggressor, the oppressor, the exploiter, the sponsor of state terrorism, and so on.

I'm sorry if Americans are so fantastically insular that they're completely unable to relate to any of this, but it's fundamentally not my problem, and if you know what's good for your country in the long term, you'll try to make Americans understand that we don't automatically start from the assumption that "what's good for America, is good for the rest of the world" - in fact, based on your country's appalling track record (Iran, 1954, Vietnam, Chile, Cuba, Iraq, Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo, etc.) we usually start from the assumption that the opposite is the case.

Nowhere has this been more clear than in the Wikileaks situation, where what may be considered to be "good" from America's parochial POV - namely, "censoring evidence of our soldiers, engaged in a criminal war of illegal occupation against Iraq, committing war atrocities against the helpless civilians of that state" - is obviously "bad" from the perspective of non-Americans, particularly those of us who (like myself) have some interest in maintaining basic standards of human rights and the rule of international law.

If the government of your country doesn't like this kind of dirty laundry being leaked, then it should stop engaging in illegal wars of aggression and war crimes, publicly apologize and make restitution to your victims, and never do these things again. As long as America defiantly proclaims the "right" to engage in conduct that would be considered criminal and reprehensible if performed by any other country, you can expect endless variations of both the Wikileaks / "Collateral Murder" saga, plus increasing rage throughout the rest of the world, directed against both your country and its citizens.

(3.) The bottom line, sir, is that you live in a bad, evil, self-indulgent, selfish, resource-hungry nation that is a deadly threat to the human rights, security and safety of Third World civilians, across the globe. Your country does terrible things and has been doing them since at least the end of the Second World War.

Want a "solution" to all this? Like all citizens of your country (honourable exception to the likes of Noam Chomsky), you should look in the mirror, Mr. Gewirtz.

There's the "enemy". Too bad you can't recognize him. We do.
@AngerNotManaged ... The topic seems to originally have been about the release of classified data and whether the fellow who did it is a criminal. Now it has morphed into a rant about the evils of the USA. On an objective note, should the USA decline to offer all humanitarian assistance and "foreign aid" from now on, would these third world civilians that you tout be better off?

Your answer will not be objective, but laced with facetious finger pointing.
@notme403@...
What a lame Answer , @AngerNotManaged was right, stop trying to turn it into a humanitarian issue etc, the imposters running America atm are doing bad things all around the world , answer 1 question how many US Army bases are there in the world?
see here for an answer: http://www.alternet.org/world/97913/the_us_has_761_military_bases_across_the_planet,_and_we_simply_never_talk_about_it/
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Not so fast
colinnwn 22nd Jun 2010
@notme403@...
Is the release of classified information illegal according to US government law? Yes. But that is irrelevant to non-US citizens; and it isn't the larger threat the US government is to many US citizens and non-US citizens alike.

AngerNotManageds points were prescient, relevant, and on-topic.

Regarding foreign aid, the US on a GDP basis is one of the smallest foreign aid contributors in the Western world. Many of our methods for providing it are either unintentionally distructive to the target nation, or are intentionally favorable to our interests, and not pure in the spirit of helping. So yes, it might be better off if we quit providing foreign aid. Though in a perfect world, I'd prefer if we quadrupled our foreign aid on a no-strings attached, carefully controlled model that didn't support ruthless factions in some of these target countries.
@johnpall@... There are a lot of US bases world wide. Good. Your logic ( if you can call it that ) correlates the number of US bases with the level of badness in the world. Should the US decide to take the same operational position as the Muslims, for instance, the rest of the world would already be a US territory. We could and would have already mercilessly destroyed all that stood in our way. We would not have lost more than a handful of soldiers in the Iraq war because Iraq would have been a smoking, glazed, lifeless, wasteland. But we use rules of engagement (as foolish as that sounds when applied to war) designed to protect civilian lives. In the peaceful communities of the world where there are US bases, for the most part there is a harmonious relationship which benefits both sides.
@AngerNotManaged I am sure that when we withdraw to our own corner of the continent that everyone else will enjoy their time under under the Islamic or Chinese hegemony far more.
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Your view isn't fine enough.
HollywoodDog Updated - 21st Jun 2010
@AngerNotManaged The "Nation" isn't "bad," but rather it's just like every other nation that has found itself in a position of unchallengable power. It also has a hopelessly rotten political system in which power and law are for sale to the highest bidder.

These factors create the impression that the entire nation is evil, when really only the ultimate outcome of an interconnected web of failures is evil.

When Ellsberg was a boy his family was driving cross country, and his father fell asleep at the wheel, causing an accident which killed his mother and sister. He points out that his father wasn't evil, but just that he was insufficiently vigilant to do what it took to avoid falling in to a negligent state, and the result was catastrophe.

That's pretty much what we have here. If you're forming your opinions of the entire nation based on state-run media (ABC, CBS, NBC) or the carnival barkers and cheap charlatans on cable news, you're going to be very misled.

There are lots of well intentioned people here, and many more who would be well intentioned if not for their immersion in propaganda.

In a sense we're a nation of victims. Those who are engaged in wholesale mass murder and who are being killed in the wars are the biggest victims among us.
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@HollywoodDog
I think he's smart enough to know that,
he could have been much more specific but the fact is the people running America atm are the ones sending the countries youth to death in their thousands (see the photo above) and you know they will have the big pomp ass ceremonies to pretend that these soldiers died for a just cause etc, they would'nt go into battle themselves they get others to do their dirty work.
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AngerNotManaged
John Zern Updated - 21st Jun 2010
Funny how you allways spew on about the US, yet never divulge exactlly where you live.
@AngerNotManaged
1) It sounded like the meek, self-apologetic liberals were the ones who turned fascist when the author did not agree with their agenda. And as far as I can recall, the last one I recall saying, "We will crush you!" was Mr. bin Laden. Before that, it was Mr. Kruschev. I'm not sure when you say "rules of engagement", if you mean verbal war or real war. I agree that in reality you cannot restrict the "combatants". However, there are norms and there are forms that are generally unacceptable.

2) Nice diatribe. And not completely false. So as an American I agree we should look at our motives, and I think we do. While not forgetting the burden of the US to do what is right, let us examine the record of your country, if you have the courage to name it. Has it exhibited the transparency, the willingness to sacrifice for others, the protection of the rights of its citizens seen in America? If America today abandoned its role on the world stage, would those who would force an ideology on others suddenly become pacific?

3) Again you make many charges which may have basis in fact to a greater or lesser degree. Where we are wrong (self-indulgence, selfishness and resource consumption, in particular) we ask forgiveness and strive to change. As far as I can tell, the US is usually at the forefront to try to protect human rights, and ensure the security and safety of Third World civilians. To be sure, in many cases the US has done what is wrong, and in due course we acknowledge and try to make amends. But you too easily overlook the good and humanitarian efforts in which we have also engaged. Yes, we see ourselves in the mirror and ask forgiveness when we have been wrong.

Now I ask you, too, to hold up the mirror before you and your country. Is the picture any better than ours? What if you and your country were in a position of overwhelming power. Would you have used it better? I await your honest answer.
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Bin Laden has apparently won
HollywoodDog 22nd Jun 2010
@JimboNobody ... we've burned the law in order to save it, the economy is an unmitigated disaster, people have less faith in the US government or its leadership than they've ever had. We're in endless interminable wars which threaten to go on forever, and which are clearly unwinnable.

Worse than all of that, our sense that America works, that tomorrow will be better than today, that we can accomplish things, has been destroyed. We're all hunkered down in our homes, with a scarcity mentality, and no sense of national unity.

If you'd suggested to me on 9/11 that Bin Laden could actually win and destroy what we are, I'd have laughed at you. Damned if he hasn't done it.
@AngerNotManaged Some years ago (while the USSR was still a going concern) I was listening to a radio interview with a Defence Analyst, on modern weapons.

He was talking about the development of smart ordinance. IE guided bombs, etc. He noted that the USA was the only country developing such weapons. He said that the USSR did not care about subsequent casualties if the target was eliminated. This also applies to countries other than the USSR. They don't care about collateral damage.

In this fascinating interview (it was during the 80's I think) he went on to talk about how to oppose the US militarily. He said it is impossible for any army to oppose face to face the US military. They are too strong. What needs to be done is to maintain enough infrastructure inside the country, and resist through skirmish and sabotage, long enough for the US and World Press to arrive and report on the war. Then fight the war using public opinion.

The US army develops smart weapons to win its PR war within the US borders, not to fight more efficient wars overseas.

I've never read Wikileaks, nor even knew about the Bradley Manning affair. I'm not Democrat, nor Republican. In fact I'm Australian. It is far too easy to blame everything on the US. As they are the most reported nation on earth. However what about other nations, or administrations, behaviour? Bombing markets full of civilians (then having a second bomb set up to kill the rescuers)? Kneecapping neighbours that disagree with your ideas! Genocide! Child soldiers! and on, and on...
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@AngerNotManaged
You have --- stated exactly what i would of said, Bravo!
@AngerNotManaged

Wow, you are an arogant and ill informed individual. Which country is it you come from that is so perfect?

All countries in a position of power and going to do and say things that are not popular to others with less, and they will inevitably make bad decisions and mistakes because perfection cannot be attained.

For the most part americans are good people who want to do good for themselves their country and the world as a whole and because they disagree with your methods of getting there does not make them wrong or evil or the enemy. that is the thinking that starts wars, so why don't you take a long hard look in the mirror and recognize you like everyone has a right to their opinion but NO right to judge someone elses.

BTW.. The ends no more justify the means because it is something you believe in than it does for any other cause or belief so get over yourself and Chomsky IS a facist.
I'm surprised at how you throw the word, "Fascist," around so freely without knowing the meaning of the word. Look it up:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fascist

I am antiwar. I'm not in the Mafia, and I'm not a fascist. I believe that all sides of an issue should be examined, however the United States government does not share my point of view.

That's where Wikileaks comes in. For the most part, they provide a very valuable service for Democracy.
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Contributr
@akaltman@... I did look it up, just to be sure. See:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascist

The operative phrase is "forceable suppression of the opposition." Most antiwar people don't behave that way, but some of the emails and Web site postings I've encountered in the last few days DO fit that concept. They perceive me as opposition and (sadly) force was threatened.

Not everyone is a jackass, but that doesn't mean there aren't some jackasses out there. Disagreeing with an article is one thing. I encourage that. But sending threatening messages about an author and his family is ENTIRELY different.
@David Gewirtz
Are you trying to turn the meaning of fascist on it's head?
last time i looked it was the US who were acting like Dictators.
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Abuse of a definition
colinnwn 22nd Jun 2010
@David Gewirtz
You can't take one small aspect of the definition of the word, and if it is relevant, apply the word when none of the rest of the definition of the word is relevant. Calling someone fascist is probably the most incorrectly used and abused term in the political discourse right now.

A good start to understanding what a fascist really is can be had from reading the Wikipedia article

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism
@akaltman@... The meaning of the word is important, and it looks like it was used correctly, as the most violent threats came from a demographic which seems to be most enthusiastic about government oversight of the private business community. Mussolini (who was both right and left aligned during his political career) was always a fascist, and defined it as extreme government oversight of industry, whether from the left or the right.
@notme403@... You obviously do not know the meaning of the word..
@emanresu123@... emanresu123, I was just relating Mussolini's view of what fascism is in an operational sense. He would be the expert. We all are experiencing a form of fascism with the Obama Democrats' march towards social fascism...
  • Flagged
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Hate email
cburkitt2 21st Jun 2010
Disinterested folks with moderate views are less likely to write, let alone launch a personal attack. Ignore the hate mail.
Very well thought out and stated - thanks. (Although I might have reconsidered the headline, which had me expecting something altogether different from what you wrote.
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"Go ahead and comment, but please do try to be civil about it."

Wow! You'd better take another look at your chosen title before asking others to be civil.
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@OldGuru - The only people who can legitimately take offense to that title are the ones it addresses - antiwar fascists. He's not saying that antiwar equals fascist!

That's akin to religious fanaticism - religiousness is fine, but when you add the fanaticism things get downright unpleasant quickly.
@dthorn@... Wrong.. I take offense to any such bastardization of the English language. Regardless of the political connotations, stupid people and their stupid comments offend me.
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@dthorn - Since when being anti-war has anything to do with being religious. As far as I know religions in general, and religious fanaticism in particular, have been behind most wars in human history. In fact, I believe the author himself is probably a religious fanatic.
@OldGuru The author of this article is a troll.. He spews offensive nonsense and then says "Oh noes! Stop the emails! I am sensitive!"
It's part of the ever-present vocalization of the fringe groups. I'm largely anti-war when they result from our own prior meddling, but I don't send folks death threats etc. A few extremists exist everywhere but don't represent the body. The unfortunate part is that the internet gives then an even bigger voice while increasing the probability that the rest of us can't assert often enough that they don't represent the body.

BTW, you might look to the wording of your own headline to see an example of extremism.
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Dear Mr. Gerwitz:

You are right to resist fascists, whether they carry a red, white, and black flag, or a rainbow flag.

PS: akaltman, democracy is not capitalized, or perhaps within that context it should be.
It's all Israel's fault! wink
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It's been my experience that for the overwhelming majority of cases, anyone who engages in ad hominem attacks does so because there do not exist other logical, valid reasons to support opposition to the position taken by the person they are attacking. And the rest of the time people use ad hominem attacks because their primary goal is the destruction of the individual; their actual position on any matter is irrelevant to the attacker.

By the way, the Salon article calls the alleged damage to national security as "serious". This is a term used to describe "Secret" information. The term, "grave damage", is used to describe "Top Secret" information. "Confidential" is a classification of information that would just cause "damage" to national security, and is below Secret.

Based on what I've read on the Manning Incident, the only mental health problem Manning has is a feeling of guilt at being a part of an organization that has been committing war attrocities and covering them up. I have to agree that the fact that he tried to go public with the information, and didn't seek monetary restitution, nor did he try to give it to a single foreign nation, with or without payment; argue that he was motivated by pure whistleblower values. The reported remarks by his supervisor or officer in charge, in conjunction with military behavior in the Middle East during and since the Abu Gharib incidents, provide more than enough proof that the entire military chain of command is corrupted and unreliable for reporting of war crimes; as is the military Inspector General system.

What's a fascist, besides a word used by a lot of folks engaged in ad hominem attacks? Dig around the various dictionaries and you find it to be a government philosophy that shares common points of: a single leader, Single-party State, Social Darwinism, ?litism, and extreme nationalism. Well, the U.S. has a single head of state, the President. It's been well remarked that their is little difference between the Democratic and Republican parties, such that we may as well be a single party state. Social darwinism appears to be on the rise in the cries for reducing welfare, attacks on social security, and programs for the poor; which go hand in hand with elitism of the economically, educationally, and politically elite in this country. Stir in the extreme levels of patriotism and isolationism that engenders no dissenting opinion against the actions of this country's government, and rabid xenophobia and I think you can make a valid case that the majority of America is turning into the greatest fascist state in the world.
What each of us has to ask ourselves, over and over again, is the same question that gnawed at citizens during Vietnam: why are we there? If you can't come up with a coherent, defensible answer, that's a serious hole in whatever logical framework you use.
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Welcome to the war.
Gaius_Maximus 21st Jun 2010
We've been trying to tell you all for years: If you wonder which side is more correct, just look for such behavior. That will be the wrong side of the argument.
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250,000 pages???
Dr_Zinj 21st Jun 2010
If Lamos never opened the encrypted files, how does he know there were a quarter of a million pages of them?

That's an awful lot of diplomatic correspondence. I don't see how any military intelligence analyst on a short tour in Afghanistan would have the time to read through that much and evaluate which ones were violations of the laws of war, or the U.S. Constitution; much less evaluate them for actual military intelligence value. Something stinks about this who incident, and it isn't Manning's underwear.

When you combine the effect this is going to have on WikiLeaks, with the Federal Election Commission case against the Campaign for Liberty organization, with H.R. 5175 DISCLOSE Act, you can see a clear pattern by our Federal government to obliterate the 1st Amendment. ANYONE in the government who says otherwise is lying to you. When actions do not coincide with words, beleive the actions.

CALL YOUR REPRESENTATIVES AND SENATORS AND TELL THEM YOU KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON. Tell them to fight these actions or kiss their government jobs goodbye at the end of their terms. Unless, of course you, think Nazi Germany was a great place to live and work.
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Rights
roleat 21st Jun 2010
I personally don't like having my existence at risk because the nation I so happen to be living in decides to become involved in warfare. Simple as that.

The government body should be making decisions to best protect their citizens and they fail to do so when they being enlisting and promoting murder as the only option to "make peace".

If the amount of time and money went into negotiations and aiding foreign disputes rather than taking advantage of economically-weaker nations then we could stop risking our lives and our futures.

Of course this isn't coming from some flag-waving American so I assume many of you won't understand what I'm getting at.
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Antiwar Fascists
gnostication@... 21st Jun 2010
I have been active in the anti-war movement since December 2001.

It is a sad fact that when I mention that I'm a former Marine, or when I broadcast my pride in having served my country as a Marine, some people look at me as though I'm a baby killer. (I'm a former machine gunner, but I don't recall slaughtering any babys. Or women. Or children.)

There are certainly idiots in every movement, however I find them to be the minority in the peace movement (probably not more than 10%). Well, they mess things up for a lot of us (and turn me off to a lot of branches of the movement).

I agree with you that there is an ethical responsibility that wikileaks should look at to prevent possible loss of life. Plans and key strategic details should never be disclosed if there is a chance that it would benefit one person killing another.

You could also say that not giving those details only benefits the US military in their activities, where there is empirical evidence indicating the (rare) slaughter/death of non-combatants due to the US military's activities.

I would say it is best to give this information after the fact, but the people should still know and our government's actions should be as transparent as possible for appropriate accountability. I would agree with your opinion that wikileaks has an ethical responsibility not just to prevent information from being released that may result in the death of *anyone*, but also has an ethical responsibility to disclose EVERYTHING as soon as the chance for resultant death has passed.
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Want to know why I (and billions of other non-Americans) do all this "finger-pointing"?

Check these out (both stories within the last few weeks) :

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/06/arar-supreme-court/#more-16886

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/06/u-s-testing-pain-ray-in-afghanistan/

And you Americans WONDER why everybody hates you.

No doubt, you'd like stories like these, to be suppressed, just like you want "Collateral Damage" not to be leaked.
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@AngerNotManaged

And you Americans WONDER why everybody hates you.

It's funny how they all "hate America" up until they have some sort of crisis. Then the cry is "Where are the Americans? Where are the Americans with our aid?"

Actually, it isn't funny, it's pathetic.
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What's the point of this article?
Reindeer911 21st Jun 2010
"But I do think it?s worth looking at these issues from all sides."

Yet you choose to demonize an entire movement because of the actions of a few? Being a little hypocritical, aren't we?

What I find amusing David is that you have chosen to write an article on a controversial subject, then get hate mail as a result. What could you have possibly been expecting David? A Pulitzer Prize? D'oh!

Then you write this followup piece which is essentially nothing more than whining about how you got hate mail, and how the antiwar crowd are a bunch of fascists because they oppose your obviously biased point of view? As the expression goes, "if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen"!
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Contributr
@Reindeer911, regarding "Yet you choose to demonize an entire movement because of the actions of a few? Being a little hypocritical, aren't we?"

That's actually not true. I am criticizing those few who are taking the discussion to an unhealthy area. Antiwar activists are critical for our nation. I believe that ALL wars should be questioned, if for no other reason than because war is terrible and we should always have a checkup from the neck up if we plan to fight with another country.

However, perhaps I could have been more clear separating out the crazies from good, solid, constructive anti-war protestors, who are important to our nation.
@David Gewirtz Nice back-pedaling .. too bad that if this were true the name of the article would be why crazy people suck.. and if you were trying to be overtly specific to a fault: "Why crazy people who are also anti-war suck" ; Don't make an ignorant abusive comment and then mince your words.. Either go all out ignorant and abusive or admit you're a tool and try to do better in the future..
Whoever came up with anti-war fascists is an illiterate tool.

Fascism is the consolidation of all aspects of society into state power. The STATE benefits from war. Anti-War fascist is an oxymoron, unlike you..who is just a moron..
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Sorry I meant to say mentally challenged..
The problem is that the released Wikileaks was edited to "prove" a massacre.
Taking things out of context is an ethical problem. Releasing secret government information is only a crime.

as for the "Ellsburg is a hero" meme:
Yup. Ignore the millions who were killed in Cambodia, the hundreds of thousands who died in reeducation camps, the millions who fled their land, the ethnic cleansing of Chinese ethnics, the Vietnamese war with China after they won, and those who died in the famines before they "turned" to capitalism in 1991...
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@all
JustForWIKILEAKS 2nd Jan 2011
AngerNotManaged is right. And stop using the argumentum ad hominem. IT IS PISSING ME OFF SO MUCH. eg...
"Now I ask you, too, to hold up the mirror before you and your country. Is the picture any better than ours? What if you and your country were in a position of overwhelming power. Would you have used it better? I await your honest answer."

"Funny how you allways spew on about the US, yet never divulge exactlly where you live."

"Should the US decide to take the same operational position as the Muslims, for instance, the rest of the world would already be a US territory."
(btw the Muslims never would destroy a land they conquered. GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT. IGNORANT PEOPLE ARE IGNORANT)
"@AngerNotManaged I am sure that when we withdraw to our own corner of the continent that everyone else will enjoy their time under under the Islamic or Chinese hegemony far more."


And it isn't just Chinese people and Muslims (if I use your logic against you and generalize - 1.3B people living in china, 1.5-1.6B muslims, so around 2-3B ppl? out of the 6.2B ppl in the world LOL.. and thats a small number because for you chinese and muslim people are just the ones who live in the US - the immigrants. a minority, yeah?) who think the US is an oppressor. add vietnam to that group. and cuba. and a lot of the intellectuals in the world. and all the people against the iraq war, afghanistan war, the upcoming iran war... honestly that's all the US does. do you know that financial aid is a lie? as in, fiat money. the federal reserve in the US can just print money whenever it wants to, and give this out to poorer nations. can you eat dollars? or use them as clothing? no, not really. they go into some pockets along the way, and in the end, don't benefit in the slightest.

PLEASE GET OUT OF YOUR DREAM WORLD AND REALIZE THE WORLD =/= THE UNITED STATES.

kthxbai.

the current US is almost like germany during the first world war.. loyal to the government, loyal to the dollar that is made by the federal reserve (which is in fact not even part of your esteemed government - OUTRAGEOUS. it's like this around the world)

i'm very pessimistic about the current state of the world. don't expect the internet to last long, don't expect any of this to last more than another few decades. it's amazing and scary at the same time... all this consumerism generated in about a century.

do you know that the US constitution says:
No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.

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