What you can do (according to Microsoft) if Kinect is ogling your jiggly bits

By | March 29, 2011, 5:10am PDT

Summary: I’m not completely satisfied with the Kinect’s privacy options, and I’d like to see Microsoft go further with one of its upcoming Xbox system updates.

Back in November, I wrote 8 reasons you might NOT want to buy a Kinect. As a gift to those readers who complain when I write about government topics here on ZDNet Government, it was an article entirely devoid of civics value whatsoever. It was, however, a useful and entertaining read.

A few weeks later, I got a letter from a female reader that took the Kinect topic into a new, civics-related area: personal privacy.

She’d read my Kinect article, felt it helped her understand the issues, and went ahead and bought the device. She loved it. But over time, she began to get more and more nervous about my Reason 7: What if your stupid, embarrassing, jumping pictures wind up on Facebook?

In my article, I explained that for those pics to wind up on Facebook (or elsewhere on the Internet), you’d have to enable a sequence of features on the Xbox 360. But that wasn’t her concern. Her concern was what if a friend came over to her house, fired up her Xbox, and found pictures of her that were embarrassing, or when she was dancing to Dance Central after work, without all her clothes on?

She wanted to know if there was a central place on the Xbox 360 where she could go to delete all the images and video taken by the Kinect.

It was a good question, and one for which I didn’t have an answer.

So I started looking into it. First, I fired up my Xbox 360 and dug through all the menus. There was no apparent way to delete all the pictures and videos. Some of the games themselves had a way, but I couldn’t find any central menu option or switch.

I’ve always liked and respected the folks at Microsoft, and have even had a pretty good relationship with their PR team, so that’s where I turned next. The following answers are attributable to a “Microsoft spokesperson”:

Please see below on how to delete photos from the console, keep in mind it varies per title.

“The Kinect camera shoots photographs of people playing certain Kinect games, and each game title determines how those photos are stored and provides clear instructions on how to manage those photos. We recommend that after each game is concluded, the owner decide — along with the other players of that game session — which photos to store and which to delete. For images chosen to store, the console owner can send those to KinectShare, access them through Kinectshare.com, and download them onto a private computer. That way, the photos are stored for future use in a way that only the owner can access.

Also, Kinect does not store videos containing images of players on the console or elsewhere.”

I asked a few follow-up questions. First, I asked, “Would it be accurate to say that if there’s pictures or video stored by the application, it would be reflected in the Memory Settings area of the device?”

Here’s what I was told:

There is no one consistent place where photos are stored. Each game can decide its own location. Hence, our guidance is to make storage decisions when games are concluding. Since each game stores photos differently, you would need to make storage decisions based on each game.

My final question to Microsoft on the topic was, “Also, if KinectShare is never used or logged into, then is it reasonably fair to assume that the pictures are secured and, while they might be on the Xbox 360 itself, they’re certainly not shared on the Internet?”

That was confirmed:

I would like to reiterate that photos are ONLY shared outside of the console on KinectShare if you’ve given permission. Then of course, how you share photos from KinectShare is totally up to you.

If KinectShare is not used or is “blocked” it will not leave the console. I recommend visiting our Kinect Privacy FAQ as it helps answer a lot of those questions about how KinectSharing works and there is a section dedicated to photos. The site is as follows: www.xbox.com/kinectprivacy

I’d like to see Microsoft go further.

Microsoft has always been quite respectful of its users’ privacy needs, unlike some other major tech industry (Facebook) players who (Facebook) won’t be named (Facebook). Even so, I’m not completely satisfied with the Kinect’s privacy options, and I’d like to see Microsoft go further with one of its upcoming Xbox system updates.

Specifically, I’d like to see the option for an Xbox owner to delete all identifying Kinect image and video data from the Xbox Dashboard, across all games. Anything else would be substantially less secure.

Here’s the basic problem: in order to be sure all those images and videos are erased, each Xbox owner would have to load each game disc (assuming that all the discs could be found and still work), and then navigate using each game’s unique menu options, and then do this for every user on that particular machine.

Sure, it’s doable. But for the sake of Kinect owners, and to save them what could be some very troubling embarrassment or other difficulty in the future, I strongly recommend to Microsoft that they implement a single image/video kill option for each Xbox.

By the way, I know that could backfire, in that other users could delete things an Xbox owner might not delete. An optional — “optional” being the operative word — password setting would solve this.

Finally, for the record, there are no images or videos of me dancing in front of my Xbox 360. I do not dance. Ever.

Kick off your day with ZDNet's daily e-mail newsletter. It's the freshest tech news and opinion, served hot. Get it.

Topics

David Gewirtz, Distinguished Lecturer at CBS Interactive, is an author, U.S. policy advisor, and computer scientist. He is featured in The History Channel special The President's Book of Secrets.

Disclosure

David Gewirtz

At various times during his adult life, David has voted for both Democrats and Republicans, and has been disappointed by both. He is deeply disturbed by how partisanship has come before patriotism in America, which gives him the freedom to pick on both sides.

David is a frequent guest on TV and radio stations across America and can usually be heard or seen on-the-air at least once a week. He writes weekly commentary and analysis for CNN’s Anderson Cooper 360 and has been interviewed by Fox News, CNN, various ABC and NBC affiliates, and Canada’s Global TV. He has been a featured guest on National Public Radio and has also been featured on Voice of America, Radio Free Europe, and Radio Liberty where his commentaries on technology, industry, and emerging nations have been broadcast into 46 countries (all in their own unique translations).

David is the executive director of U.S. Strategic Perspective Institute, a nonprofit research and policy organization. He is the Cyberterrorism Advisor for the International Association for Counterterrorism & Security Professionals, a columnist for The Journal of Counterterrorism and Homeland Security and a special contributor to Frontline Security Magazine. He is a member of the FBI’s InfraGard program, the security partnership between the FBI and industry. David is also a member of the U.S. Naval Institute and the National Defense Industrial Association, the leading defense industry association promoting national security.

David is an advisory board member for the Technical Communications and Management Certificate program at the University of California, Berkeley extension. He is also a member of the instructional faculty at the University of California, Berkeley extension.

David’s “day job” is as publisher and editor-in-chief of ZATZ publishing, an online publisher of technical magazines. Other than than his ownership stake in Component Enterprises, Inc. (the parent company of ZATZ), David has no additional industry investments.

ZATZ has many advertisers who do, in part, provide for David’s lush income and extravagant lifestyle. Most of them are IBM and Lotus aftermarket suppliers, some of them make goodies for Microsoft Outlook, and a few make all sorts of strange mobile devices and add-on products. David has been a regular judge of the IBM Awards, but has no formal financial interest in or with IBM.

Because the ZATZ online magazines often review products, David and ZATZ are sent an overwhelming stream of unsolicited, silly, and often useless products to review. Because they’re such a pain to track and ship back, these products often wind up in a dumpster or fill up the corner of a large closet. Although David has no plans to review products in connection to his ZDNet blog, if he does do a product review, he will disclose any relationship completely in that posting.

Both through ZATZ and independently, David derives a small income through various advertising and sales relationships with Amazon.com and Google. These are minor relationships and they will not impede his willingness or ability to chastise either company should they deserve it.

David has many other business relationships, but none of them relate to anything he covers in his ZDNet blog. David does have a bit of the sales-guy bug and if he’s not doing a sales deal with someone at least once a month, he goes through withdrawal. He has a number of consulting clients, but none of them relate to anything he covers for ZDNet (and if they ever do, he will either disclose that fact, or decline to write about them).

Back in the 1980s, David held the unusual title of “Godfather” at Apple. He has written and published 40 incredibly simplistic applications for Apple’s iPhone.

Although David is forbidden to disclose the terms of his iPhone developer agreement, he isn’t drinking the Apple Kool Aid, will never be confused with a metrosexual, and feels free to mock Apple, and Apple users, any time the occasion permits, on alternate Tuesdays, or if he’s bored.

Biography

David Gewirtz

In addition to hosting the ZDNet Government and ZDNet DIY-IT blogs, CBS Interactive's Distinguished Lecturer David Gewirtz is an author, U.S. policy advisor, and computer scientist. He is featured in The History Channel special The President's Book of Secrets, is one of America's foremost cyber-security experts, and is a top expert on saving and creating jobs. He is also director of the U.S. Strategic Perspective Institute as well as the founder of ZATZ Publishing.

David is a member of FBI InfraGard, the Cyberwarfare Advisor for the International Association for Counterterrorism & Security Professionals, a columnist for The Journal of Counterterrorism and Homeland Security, and has been a regular CNN contributor, and a guest commentator for the Nieman Watchdog of the Nieman Foundation for Journalism at Harvard University. He is the author of Where Have All the Emails Gone?, the definitive study of email in the White House, as well as How To Save Jobs and The Flexible Enterprise, the classic book that served as a foundation for today's agile business movement.

Related Discussions on TechRepublic

Did you know you can take part in these discussions with your ZDNet membership?
42
Comments

Join the conversation!

Just In

RE: What you can do (according to Microsoft) if Kinect is ogling your jiggly bits
morduhan Updated - 7th Nov
@wolf_z Agreed with you. Ms can not do it.
oyu
0 Votes
+ -
I don't think that's *possible*
wolf_z 29th Mar 2011
Since it's up to the game designers, how would Microsoft ever know where the pictures were?
0 Votes
+ -
ofcourse it's possible...
gigglypuff 29th Mar 2011
@wolf_z
Microsoft has to have a review process for each XBox360 game released. They don't just trash that documentation. I guarantee that MS has records for each game showing where on the XBOX the game stores files including pictures and videos.

But lets assume that they DON'T have or keep this information. How hard would it be to gather this information from each software publisher and build a small database of info. This database file could be kept on the xbox and for each installed game, the database would be updated so that when you need to delete all image,video files the database is consulted and those locations are cleared of the relevant files.

Not hard at all and this assumes MS doesn't already have this information available which I'm certain they do. After all, this is Microsoft. I mean, C'mon.
0 Votes
+ -
I think you're wrong
wolf_z 29th Mar 2011
@gigglypuff

First, exactly how many games are available for X-Box? Hundreds? Thousands? Tens of thousands? Not such a little database any more, hmm?

Not to mention this means the developers have to hand over internal information on their games--which isn't something I'd be thrilled to do, personally.

And really, this is a dumb concern anyway. If you don't enable sharing, the pics don't leave the box.

On the other hand, perhaps there should be a "reset to factory settings" option which wipes *EVERYTHING* from the hard drive, so you could sell the machine.

That would be neither difficult nor intrusive to anyone...
0 Votes
+ -
wolf_z,

MS could require each game developer use a directory with a standard name (e.g. UserPictures) to store images of users. The Xbox could then index these directories and their contents (and maybe everything else on the Xbox console), then do a search on the directories and their contents, whenever a user wants to perform a global picture files deletion. The deletion program could then delete all files selected by the user, or all files period, in these directories (and possibly their subdirectories) that have picture file extensions (e.g. .bmp, .jpg).
wolf_z, we're talking about Kinect-enabled titles here and, frankly, there are not that many. Yet.
@gigglypuff
two issues with a global kill switch on the xbox...

1. you are relying on a microsoft written script to run on your console with complete access to wipe anything it wants to.

2. you are expecting the game devs to use file extensions, with file headers it is not necessary to have a name extension. it would be a pretty complex system to determine what it could and could not delete. And would definitely not be perfect.

Also,
why are the files not saved in the same place as saved games?
@wolf_z ENTIRELY possible. Game developers use API's and service layers to access many of the underlying features of the XBox from within their game.

All that would have to happen would be that photo saving/deleting be built into the API (I actually can't imagine it's not already, but stranger things have happened). Then, all the game developers do is make simple calls to the API - savePhoto(), saveVideo(), deletePhoto(), sharePhoto() - and the XBox would handle all the wheres and whatfors.

One very simple solution would be to save all photos to a central directory on the XBox filesystem, with subdirectories for each game (named after the game ID). No database required for maintenance, really. If a user wished to delete all photos from their XBox, a global command could be issued that would simply delete all files/folders within that central directory. Delete all photos for a particular game? Simply delete all files in the subdirectory named for that specific game ID. The XBox would have to neither know, nor care what game it actually was. It would simply be acting on IDs.

I'm pretty sure the XBox is already doing something similar for gamesaves. They're all in a central location, named by ID.
0 Votes
+ -
Why didn't Microsoft think of that?
voltrarian Updated - 29th Mar 2011
@csteinola
Exactly. If you thought of it, and P. Douglas thought of it, and I was going to comment on that too (and I ain't a super-genius programmer), then why wasn't the idea of a central directory folder for saving user images obvious to Microsoft?

Oh, and btw, isn't Microsoft going back to its own design error of giving too much trust & leeway to application software that runs on their system, such that errant software can cause too many unintended consequences (such as doing intended or unintended mischief or bad garbage keeping with user images)?
@wolf_z Agreed with you. Ms can not do it.
oyu
If you really need those photos deleted then you should do it at the time they were taken using the game/disc that did it. The other part is user responsibility, you really shouldn't be doing things in front of a camera you don't want others to see.
0 Votes
+ -
Eric Schmidt?
pgit 29th Mar 2011
@Loverock Davidson I always thought you were really Linus Torvalds blowing off steam, but your statement is almost exactly what Eric Schmidt said about there being no privacy anymore...

"If you have something that you don't want anyone to know, maybe you shouldn't be doing it in the first place."

http://gawker.com/?_escaped_fragment_=5419271/google-ceo-secrets-are-for-filthy-people#!5419271/google-ceo-secrets-are-for-filthy-people

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/12/07/schmidt_on_privacy/

Eric?
@Loverock Davidson
Oh crap. I actually agree with you, 100% on something.
@Loverock Davidson ...you really shouldn't be doing things in front of a camera you don't want others to see.

Uhm... Like play the games on the console you just bought?
0 Votes
+ -
@Loverock Davidson
and hat if you rented the game for your kids (or they borrowed it from some other kid) and thought it would be funny to do something stupid while it took pictures...

then you have to find the game again, or buy it, in order to delete them... not every parent spends 100% of their time staring at their kids to see what they are doing.

MS should not have allowed the game devs to make such a decision.
0 Votes
+ -
we should be outraged
Linux Geek 29th Mar 2011
Her concern was what if a friend came over to her house, fired up her Xbox, and found pictures of her that were embarrassing, or when she was dancing to Dance Central after work, without all her clothes on?
M$ should be held liable is something like that ever happened!
Only a linux box can have adequate privacy and security settings.
@Linux Geek

Well, not just Linux - any open source OS should do that.

However I agree in principle that there are very real dangers trusting one's private data to proprietary systems - especially those that won't even tell you where your files are!

Best wishes, G.
@Linux Geek ... No offense, but come back to the real world and open your eyes.
0 Votes
+ -
Outraged?
Pete "athynz" Athens 29th Mar 2011
@Linux Geek And what gaming consoles are Linux based? Any? Yeah, didn't think so.
@athynz
And what gaming consoles are Linux based? Any? Yeah, didn't think so.

I thought the PS 3 was linux based, even if it is a specific version that only Sony has. I could be wrong but I could also be right. My main concern is that someone might find a way of getting these images off of the xbox and who knows where they might end up. Or some crafty person might figure out a way of using the Kinect for not so well intentioned purposes. Imagine a game hosted on the Zune marketplace (or whatever it is called) that took advantage of the Kinect. Kinect users would think Hey that is cool, downed it and start it up. Later then trojan would activate the Kinect (without turning the lights) on, and transmit the images over the internet to an unspecified location. I honestly thick it is possible with a little work, the same can be said of the Playstation Move (Playstation Eye).
0 Votes
+ -
Funny thing for Linux Zealots
mgaul 29th Mar 2011
@Rick_K
PS3 is believed to be FreeBSD, however, Wii is a (this one is aimed at Linux Geek and mrgoose who believes Linux is a holy grail of freedom) PROPRIETARY form of Linux kernel.
@athynz Lots of corporations re-purpose Linux for a wide range of uses using proprietary code. In fact, this is what most small electronics firms do, since it's much cheaper to use Linux than to write your own operating system from scratch.

FreeBSD, which is what the PS3 apparently runs on, is, if I'm not mistaken, a fork of UNIX that was made open source. Regardless, my point is, Linux and other open source platforms are way more widespread than you may think.
@Linux Geek ONLY a Linux box?

I love Linux as much as the next guy, but come on. Linux isn't Jesus Christ.
0 Votes
+ -
I'm a bit surprised...
scH4MMER 29th Mar 2011
...that games can put things anywhere. I would have expected Microsoft to manage storage along the lines of Windows (an area for program files, a separate secure area for individual profile data, designated folders for user photos, movies, etc.).
@scH4MMER
I suspect the term "anywhere" is misleading. My gut feeling is that "anywhere" really means that each game can have it's own structure for save files, whether that be a folder for pictures or a blob file that holds multiple pictures.
The option is there to turn the sharing feature off. They have fulfilled their obligation. If she or anyone is concerned about a friend coming over and using her Xbox and them judging her if by some slim chance they come across a video of her playing a game then she needs some true friends.

I too have a kinect and while I thought the video feature was entertaining at first I too turned it off. I also play these games with my wife and family and friends and while we may look a bit silly it is nothing to cry about. If she is that self conscious then she may want to seek help for her esteem issues instead of shifting blame on a product or service that she chose to buy.
@bobiroc

Wondering how many people are ignorant of this information and that it can be shared. Or how to securit their 360 for that matter. Ignorance kills...or at least may just get your naked dancing pictures plastered all over the web. = )
0 Votes
+ -
RE: Ignorant of this information...
bobiroc 29th Mar 2011
@Splunge

Only those that did not/cannot read the documentation or the information available from the maker of the game and the kinect.

From my experience with the handful of Kinect games I have the video and picture information is proprietary to the game and only accessible from within the game that took the video. I will have to do a bit more research but if you turn off sharing it will not share without your permission so someone would have to be at the XBox and running the game under your account to see it. I would hope that would only be people that you trust to be in your home.

Since the method of sharing can be different from game to game depending on who makes it I cannot see how anyone can make Microsoft tell these 3rd party developers how to make their game. They seem to give you adequate means to opt out so I think they have covered their a$$ for the vast majority of people. You are always going to have a few that are more insecure with themselves to which I have to say then don't buy the product or buy it without at least fully researching it.
how about maybe she should not dance naked in front of the kinect?
@stevejg61

Why not, if she is in the privacy of her own home, she should be able to do whatever she wants. Last time I checked, naked dancing was not illegal. That being said, before dancing naked, one should make sure they know how to secure their device.
0 Votes
+ -
Jiggly BITS?
Userama 29th Mar 2011
Isn't "bits" a typo?
@Userama

...or a euphemism perhaps? lol happy

Best wishes, G.
Oh goody. One more device to be hacked and personal info (pictures) to be exposed. Dear Kinect users....be seeing your pics on the web soon. Love it.
0 Votes
+ -
ohhh the jiggly bits
Been_Done_Before 29th Mar 2011
such a problem for everyone.
0 Votes
+ -
A little ambiguity...
josephhyde@... 29th Mar 2011
"Also, Kinect does not store videos containing images of players on the console or elsewhere.?

Does that mean that any videos taken just disappear? Or does 'Kinect' (Microsoft) not 'store them' but maybe the 'Game' does on the console itself? If you have the 250G version why wouldn't it store everything there?

I've bought three X-Box 360 consoles with Kinect and by my count if I want to live a long and happy productive life I'll need to buy two and possibly three more...one for my nieces, another for a caregivers 6 year old and one for myself. I would never have bought even one game system for anyone if it had not been for the Kinect! I can't do a game controller, if the PS3 or X-Box took a mouse and keyboard I would have bought one or both long ago. I did buy a Wii for my 'Chosen Grandson' some years back and I bought him the X-Box 360 250GB with Kinect bundle just recently. Three down three to go.

With Kinect I can play video games on a console! Before I just played first person shooters on the PC, now I don't place PC games at all.

And lastly I don't do silly dances in front of the X-Box!!!

I'm sure the kids are a different story!

Here! Here! for a single place to delete all pictures/videos!
Kinect is a major FAIL, the demo areas remain totally empty in all the shops that I go into. MS has another DUD on their hands.
@james347

Maybe for you but everyone I know that has one seems to enjoy it. Just like the Wii the Kinect will only be as good as the software made for it. There were so many crappy titles making a mockery of the whole motion gaming that it was left to a few strong titles (usually developed by Nintendo themselves) that people still enjoy playing. The same may be of the Kinect and maybe this is just step one into a new evolution of gaming.

I was just in Best Buy today picking up my pre-order of NFS Shift 2 and there were two young adults playing kinect and one playing the PS3 Move. Also with over 10,000,000 units sold I think many people played the demo units and bought their own so they can just play at home.

You only say things fail because you do not like them.
Microsoft really should have built more control into their system.
However, if you feel THAT indignant about the way Kinect captures images, you have two options:

1: Stop using Kinect.
2: Complain to and/or sue Microsoft.

The reason this sort of thing happens is that lots of people continue to buy their products, and that they do not receive enough complaints to change their behavior -- and those who do complain generally hop onto online message boards and post something to the effect of, "OMG, Micro$oft sux!" rather than complaining with their lawyers and wallets; which is the only way to get the message across, considering Microsoft is a mindless corporation.

Come on, this isn't rocket science!
0 Votes
+ -
"I do not dance. Ever." D. Gewirtz
billwoo 30th Mar 2011
You can grow out of that !
Simple fix, don't play Kinect without being modestly clad, even a workout suit or something that doesn't show whatever you're afraid to show.
How about you have to opt in for any photos to be taken in the first place? After all, an Internet-connected camera that you don't control, aimed at your living room, is a REALLY REALLY BAD IDEA!
Message has been deleted.
Chanel bags is very luxury and high-grade. Chanel ******** sale and confidence; make their range stand out above any other. Maybe this is why they are so high profile and craved by many a celebrity. It is a brand that never disappoints with a selection of exploding diamante designs, luxurious quilted arms and interlacing. Buying Chanel from our Chanel on sale . Back to Chanel Bags online to know more products information.Chanel founder Gabrielle Chanel in 1913 Chanel was founded in Paris, Chanel Shoulder Bags , Chanel's products range from clothing, jewelry, accessories, cosmetics, perfumes, Chanel New Bag , each product is known, in particular, her perfume and fashion . Chanel (CHANEL) is a famous brand in more than 80 years experience, Chanel Fashion has always elegant, simple, Chanel Cambon Bags , elegant style, she good at breaking, early 40's on the success of tied up the ladies into the simple, Chanel Messenger Bags, comfortable This is perhaps the first modern casual wear.

Join the conversation!

Formatting +
BB Codes - Note: HTML is not supported in forums
  • [b] Bold [/b]
  • [i] Italic [/i]
  • [u] Underline [/u]
  • [s] Strikethrough [/s]
  • [q] "Quote" [/q]
  • [ol][*] 1. Ordered List [/ol]
  • [ul][*] · Unordered List [/ul]
  • [pre] Preformat [/pre]
  • [quote] "Blockquote" [/quote]
ie8 fix

The best of ZDNet, delivered

ZDNet Newsletters

Get the best of ZDNet delivered straight to your inbox

Facebook Activity

White Papers, Webcasts, & Resources
ie8 fix