ie8 fix

Why the United States might pay China before we pay our own soldiers

By | July 14, 2011, 5:00am PDT

Summary: If you’ve ever wondered why I have so little regard for our politicians of both parties, this is one example.

I’ve spent the past week or so trying to get my head around this whole “debt ceiling” debate that’s raging in Washington. Clearly, it’s important, but what does it really mean?

As it turns out, if the politicians screw up, it could be bad. Real bad.

Think of the debt ceiling as America’s credit limit. The only difference is that the people we’re borrowing money from don’t set the limit, Congress does. At it’s most simplistic, if we hit the debt ceiling, we can’t borrow any more.

This is not necessarily a bad thing, unless, of course, we need to pay for stuff and we don’t have enough money to do so. We spend on a lot of things, including our soldiers’ salaries, social security checks, and all the other outflows that the U.S. has to make on a constant basis.

We also spend on a lot of stupid things and this, it seems, is the core of the debate. The Republicans think some of what the Obama administration is spending on is stupid. The Democrats think that what the GOP wants to spend on (mostly tax cuts for the super-wealthy) is stupid.

Congress, being one of the checks and balances (and run pretty much by the GOP) wants to put a ceiling on debt. This is both because they’re completely against the Obama administration’s spending practices and, because, if it all goes horribly wrong and the economy tanks further, they can blame the incumbent President during an election year. Yay, patriotism!

By contrast, there’s some debate among Constitutional scholars (and their always lucid research team, the blogosphere) whether or not Congress can legally impose a debt ceiling. Section 4 of the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution has this handy little phrase:

The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned.

Some people take that to mean that debts are always paid, and therefore, if we have to borrow more (even if it’s borrowing to pay debts — talk about stupid!), we’ll do so.

This is, in fact, probably true. For support, let me point you to an article in Esquire called The Debt Debate’s Real Doomsday Scenario. It’s written by Tom Junod, who does not profess a party affiliation, but from his writing, it seems clear he’s not exactly on the GOP’s side this week.

In any case, Junod points out that the Treasury will pay our debts. The whole “full faith and credit of the United States” thing is at risk if we don’t, and nobody really wants to see America’s credit rating downgraded.

What this means, according to Junod’s piece, is that — assuming the debt ceiling isn’t raised as President Obama would like — the U.S. will pay its debts by pulling money from other operational budgets. In effect, we’ll stop writing checks to anyone other than our creditors, until we can meet our credit obligations.

I can’t tell you if Junod’s read is correct. I’m neither a Constitutional scholar nor a banker. But I am something of an expert on national security and here’s where I start getting concerned.

China is America’s largest creditor. You can see it coming, can’t you? Yeah, I know you can. Let’s play this out.

If China is America’s largest creditor, and we’re going to have to pay our creditors before we pay for anything else, then who are we going to pay before we pay our social security recipients, our soldiers, and pay for all of our other operation expenses?

Yep. China.

If you’ve ever wondered why I have so little regard for our politicians of both parties, this is one example. Their bickering, their constant efforts to put party before country, and the overwhelming influence of lobbying organizations have screwed up our nation’s priorities.

Is there a way out of this mess?

I outlined a lot of ideas in How To Save Jobs, but those approaches require substantial changes in how we prioritize our national interests.

So why am I telling ZDNet’s tech audience?

The bottom line is this. If our politicians don’t solve this bitter dispute, we’re likely to be sending money that might otherwise go to you, your employers, your schools, your military, and many other services that you rely on to China.

Call your Congressional representatives. Tell them to stop bickering and resolve this one way or another before we wind up paying China before Americans.

See also:

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David Gewirtz, Distinguished Lecturer at CBS Interactive, is an author, U.S. policy advisor, and computer scientist. He is featured in The History Channel special The President's Book of Secrets.

Disclosure

David Gewirtz

At various times during his adult life, David has voted for both Democrats and Republicans, and has been disappointed by both. He is deeply disturbed by how partisanship has come before patriotism in America, which gives him the freedom to pick on both sides.

David is a frequent guest on TV and radio stations across America and can usually be heard or seen on-the-air at least once a week. He writes weekly commentary and analysis for CNN’s Anderson Cooper 360 and has been interviewed by Fox News, CNN, various ABC and NBC affiliates, and Canada’s Global TV. He has been a featured guest on National Public Radio and has also been featured on Voice of America, Radio Free Europe, and Radio Liberty where his commentaries on technology, industry, and emerging nations have been broadcast into 46 countries (all in their own unique translations).

David is the executive director of U.S. Strategic Perspective Institute, a nonprofit research and policy organization. He is the Cyberterrorism Advisor for the International Association for Counterterrorism & Security Professionals, a columnist for The Journal of Counterterrorism and Homeland Security and a special contributor to Frontline Security Magazine. He is a member of the FBI’s InfraGard program, the security partnership between the FBI and industry. David is also a member of the U.S. Naval Institute and the National Defense Industrial Association, the leading defense industry association promoting national security.

David is an advisory board member for the Technical Communications and Management Certificate program at the University of California, Berkeley extension. He is also a member of the instructional faculty at the University of California, Berkeley extension.

David’s “day job” is as publisher and editor-in-chief of ZATZ publishing, an online publisher of technical magazines. Other than than his ownership stake in Component Enterprises, Inc. (the parent company of ZATZ), David has no additional industry investments.

ZATZ has many advertisers who do, in part, provide for David’s lush income and extravagant lifestyle. Most of them are IBM and Lotus aftermarket suppliers, some of them make goodies for Microsoft Outlook, and a few make all sorts of strange mobile devices and add-on products. David has been a regular judge of the IBM Awards, but has no formal financial interest in or with IBM.

Because the ZATZ online magazines often review products, David and ZATZ are sent an overwhelming stream of unsolicited, silly, and often useless products to review. Because they’re such a pain to track and ship back, these products often wind up in a dumpster or fill up the corner of a large closet. Although David has no plans to review products in connection to his ZDNet blog, if he does do a product review, he will disclose any relationship completely in that posting.

Both through ZATZ and independently, David derives a small income through various advertising and sales relationships with Amazon.com and Google. These are minor relationships and they will not impede his willingness or ability to chastise either company should they deserve it.

David has many other business relationships, but none of them relate to anything he covers in his ZDNet blog. David does have a bit of the sales-guy bug and if he’s not doing a sales deal with someone at least once a month, he goes through withdrawal. He has a number of consulting clients, but none of them relate to anything he covers for ZDNet (and if they ever do, he will either disclose that fact, or decline to write about them).

Back in the 1980s, David held the unusual title of “Godfather” at Apple. He has written and published 40 incredibly simplistic applications for Apple’s iPhone.

Although David is forbidden to disclose the terms of his iPhone developer agreement, he isn’t drinking the Apple Kool Aid, will never be confused with a metrosexual, and feels free to mock Apple, and Apple users, any time the occasion permits, on alternate Tuesdays, or if he’s bored.

Biography

David Gewirtz

In addition to hosting the ZDNet Government and ZDNet DIY-IT blogs, CBS Interactive's Distinguished Lecturer David Gewirtz is an author, U.S. policy advisor, and computer scientist. He is featured in The History Channel special The President's Book of Secrets, is one of America's foremost cyber-security experts, and is a top expert on saving and creating jobs. He is also director of the U.S. Strategic Perspective Institute as well as the founder of ZATZ Publishing.

David is a member of FBI InfraGard, the Cyberwarfare Advisor for the International Association for Counterterrorism & Security Professionals, a columnist for The Journal of Counterterrorism and Homeland Security, and has been a regular CNN contributor, and a guest commentator for the Nieman Watchdog of the Nieman Foundation for Journalism at Harvard University. He is the author of Where Have All the Emails Gone?, the definitive study of email in the White House, as well as How To Save Jobs and The Flexible Enterprise, the classic book that served as a foundation for today's agile business movement.

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Wow! So wrong on so many levels!
adornoe@... 18th Jul
While you sounded like a reasonable person with your rhetoric and tried to be civic in communicating your feelings, I have to retort to your post as so, well, how should I put it... ... ... so ... ... ... uneducated! So... ignorant.

Look, no matter how much you may believe that any form of socialism is needed or valuable, the fact is that, it never functions as advertised, and it has always failed. Socialism is a killer to any economy, even if many of the ideas from the ideology sound well-intended. Good intentions do not make for a healthy economy. Good intentions do not grow any economy. Those intentions may start out doing some good, but eventually, they start hurting the economy; it just takes time, sometimes decades.

Capitalism is not a perfect system either, but, there is not system in the history of the world that can match the wealth-creation capabilities of the system; not socialism and not communism and not any other system.

Capitalism will, by its nature, create wealthy individuals, and greed is something that, while it may sound evil, does a lot of good to the economy. Greedy people create wealth, and everybody around them, directly and indirectly, are elevated to higher levels. The rich and the inventive and the entrepreneurs and the ambitious, are the people who need to be "incentivized" to make the economy richer, because, as they make the economy grow, more and more people are elevated from poverty. No other system can erase poverty as effectively as free-market capitalism, and, once we moved away from that system to a system that attempts to take care of people through government services that confiscate wealth from businesses and people, that's when free-market capitalism became something else entirely, and that's why we are in the bind we have right now.

There is no recovery unless we reverse course and undo the socialism in the system and come back to "real" free market capitalism.
We're a doomed, apathetic society that will get what it deserves. Now let me get back to deciding if Google+ is better than Facebook. I need to make this decision before I settle in to watch DVR'd episodes of
"Houswives of...." and "Dancing With the Stars".
@frizzllefry Couldn't have put it better myself.
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... the entire world pays you 24/7 whether they like it or not.
@LBiege ......until they see that the emperor has no clothes and he's flooded the world with worthless paper money.
Use Google Translate and see what I mean...
If either party had complete unopposed control, there would still be substantial 'unsolvable' problems.

Both parties don't scale. In a nutshell, that is the problem.
this is because the devilcrats are committing treason while taxing and spending our money.
We need tax breaks for job creators not big $$$ paid to our enemies or domestic bums.
@Linux Geek Are you trolling? Obama got a crashed economy and a massive debt... Trickle down economics dont work. Ever the former budget director of Ronald Reagan said that the GOP took the short bus to crazy town.
@Tommy S.
I represent the American people will as of November 2010: No more taxes, No Obamacare and tax breaks for job creators.
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@Linux Geek The American people LOL. Like anybody should listen to their will? What people want is: Less taxation, more services, more jobs and more everything as long as they dont pay for it.

This is reality, making ridiculous statements like that wont help anybody. Well, Im sure you guys can keep your head in the sand for a couple more years if that is what you wish.
@Tommy S.
I seem to remember that the democrats were in control of congress from the 2006 election. Were they not the one's that said no problems in the housing sector? The president got a crashed economy true and the republican policies helped it crash. "the GOP took the short bus to crazy town" - True then the democrats set up housekeeping there. Remember "you have to pass a bill to find out what's in it"? BUT Obama and his party standing around saying "NOT ME" it's all the other guy's fault is BS. They've made the economy worse. Health care is not going to save money unless you cook the books. If it's great why all the exemptions? The stimulus didn't seem to work. Both parties are to blame and the BOTH the GOP and President Obama are playing the debt for political gain. They all need to stop and the finger pointers on both sides who insist it's all the other guy's fault need to shut up and get to work. We need both TAX and ENTITLEMENT reform.
@Tommy S. - I guess you forget things were going well for the former President until the Democrats took control of the House and Senate. Then then they got the Presidency and super majority in the House and the Senate.... and all the Democrats want to so is to blame Republicans?? So your saying when the Democrats were running the house and the senate that they did nothing wrong and it was all the presidents fault? Well, now the Democrats have the Presidency and now it's not the Presidents fault but everyone else (republicans)? Seriously?
look it up. Who controlled the house the last two years of the Bush administration when everything went to hell in a handbasket.
@frgough - Perhaps you should look up the difference between correlation and causation. It might do you some good. The economy was already tanking in 2006, where the housing markets actually began to decline.

Also, I think you should realize that the debt ceiling was raised 7 times in 8 years under Bush, no questions asked, I might add, and 0 times in 8 years under Clinton.
@Tommy S.

WRONG!!!
The Domocratic party has been in control of one or both houses of Congress for every year since WWII with the exception of the first 6 years of the Clinton administration.

When the Republican party got control of Congress, with the "contract with America" nine of the ten items passed with Al Gore denying the 10th, which was to have an admendment for a balanced budget. Democrats blew back then too.

Not only was the deficit eliminated, but the government actually had surplusses recorded! The Clintons, of course, claim they fixed everything, (liars).

The last 2 years of the Clinton administration, the Democratics controled the Senate, and then both houses during the Bush adminstration. This were the enonomy began to fail, and really tanked as Obama lied to the voters and Democrats were given almost total and trashed the economy.

Since Congress is the only body which can pass spending bills, we have seen proof positive that the Democratic party has no idea on how economics work, and have consistantly damaged this country each and every time they have the power to do so. Sorry, if you disagree, but the facts speak for themselves.
@Linux Geek

If there are no more taxes, then what point are tax breaks for job creators? Also if there are no more taxes then nothing gets solved at all. You certainly don't represent me.
@Tommy S. One thing the administration should learn from this is: This is what you get when you run for office. The safest, best placed people in this country are the janitors.
@Tommy S. ...David Stockman has other interesting things to say about how the federal reserve is actually the culprit behind the current depression. Cheap money leads to poor investment decisions, if interest rates had been higher than .5% since year 2000 after the tech bubble burst, there would have been wiser investment decisions made and a more stable economy. Ron Paul has been saying these things for 40 years, predicted the housing bubble back in 2002, and has always stated the truth of what Bernanke just finished learning....stimulus doesn't work. If cheap money caused the problem, how can it be the solution? here's stockman:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig11/stockman6.1.1.html

& video of stockman "bernanke's done stick a fork in'em"

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig11/stockman6.1.1.html
@Tommy S. Linux Geek sounds like one of those Tea Party Geeks that think the rich minority of the country runs the rest of the country. They refuse to acknowledge, as does Congress, that Medicare is actually a creditor, not an "entitlement". We the people paid into Social Security. Congress cannot legally spend that money so they "borrowed" from it; over and over and over again. Now they threaten us with losing Medicare because it's an entitlement and will go broke sometime in the near future. My question is: who is breaking that bank? The answer is Congress with it's spending of Medicare's "borrowed" money that they have yet to pay back. If China is a creditor and creditors get paid first, Social Security and Medicare should be included in those payments. Even, actually ESPECIALLY, before Congressional salaries.

Everything I've seen regarding the Tea Party is divisive. I always registered "No Party Affiliation" until the Bush/Cheney regime started on it's destructive path with the war in Iraq, PATRIOT Act, Homeland Security (which I consider to be just the American version of the old Berlin Wall), fear mongering and ensuring favored corporations received "no-bid" contracts. Then I registered as a Democrat simply to show that I was anti-Republican, not because I believe the Democratic party either.

Face it; we are not a communist state, we are not a fascist state, we are a welfare state. When the Democrats are in charge, the poor get welfare and when the Republicans are in charge, the rich get the welfare.

I, myself, am a Vietnam vet who has reached a point where I am so disgusted with this country's leaders (ALL of them) that I'm actually embarrassed to have fought for them to be where they are today. I am embarrassed to be an American in the face of the world. Thank you, Congress. Nice job. Worthless pieces of cr**.
@Tommy S. Dude you're fighting a losing battle. In the words of another: "Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts." ? Henry Rosovsky

These people are clueless on here as most of the American public is.
@Tommy S.

Actually, that should read: "Economics don't work"
The financial system is unsustainable and we're starting to see its decline.
Watch out because when it does self-destruct, we're all in for a hell of a ride.
@Linux Geek You (along with anyone else) lose any and all credibility when using the term "Obamacare".
@jmwells21
that's the best term used by 99% of Americans.
@Linux Geek Oh good grief! Get a clue! Devilcrats? So far, having accumulated untold fortunes by bilking the American taxpayers and literally stealing the nations private property, homes and land, the republicans (note: I can spell it), bankers and big bussiness, WITH all their present tax cuts, dodges, and off shore accounts, have shown precious little inclination to "invest in America"! For them even the deaths of our young men in Iraq and Afganistan is an "unfortunate" cost of lining their pockets with more wealth.

Also: I've noticed that linux freaks... er, geeks seem to find it difficult to spell certain selected words, but DEVILCRATS??? LOL!!
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Utter nonsense!
adornoe@... 14th Jul
Devilcrats or democrats, it makes no difference. We know what people are talking about when talking about dumbocrats, who never learn from the lessons of history.

One of the biggest lessons that history attempts to teach us is that, socialism never works, but, the democrats and progressives continue revisiting that ideology and keep trying to impose it on Americans. They've been successful at implementing a lot of that ideology and that is precisely the reason that the U.S. is in such a bind.

Demonizing "big business" and "greedy, evil people on Wall Street" is not going to solve any problems at all, and in fact, it's those people that should be taken care of before attempting to "fix" government taxation or government spending. It's the bankers and big businesses and the "evil rich people" who make the economy hum, and they're the ones that create jobs. Businesses should be priority number one for any rescue plan, and spending and taxation will take care of itself if the government would just get out of the way and allow the free enterprise system to create wealth and get us out of all of the problems which have been built up for more than 100 years. Yes, that's right, the problem has been building up for many decades and it's only recently that we've begun to feel the effects of so much socialism, and of so much big government, and of so much government regulations, and of so much government intrusion into every aspect of our lives.

What caused the recent downturn was not because of anything that Bush did, even though the downturn was most pronounced towards the end of his administration.

What caused the recession and our current problems is all the socialism that has been building up for the last century or so, starting with social security under FDR.

The only investment in America that matters is for government to cut down its size and to cut down on the expensive and unfunded liabilities, and to cut DRASTICALLY, the stifling taxation and the heavy burdens imposed on industry by so much government and environmental regulations.

BTW, that was a pretty stupid statement about people profiting from the deaths in Afghanistan and Iraq. There might have been some companies and some people that "profited" from the funding and costs associated with the wars, but, that was not the intent of going to war. Wars always cost money, and going to war is not intended as a stimulus for an economy. If I remember correctly, the U.S. was attacked on 9/11, and by the people that we went after in Afghanistan and the middle-east.

Also, I have no problem with labeling what the democrats do as "evil", since, the end result is the destruction of our country, just like countries of the past that tried socialism and ended up in ruins.

When it comes to what's hurting and stealing and bilking the taxpayers, it's the big government with the ever-increasing hunger for more services and more taxation. Taxation is the theft of the wealth of the economy, and thereby, the theft of the American people's wealth. Our property values were drastically reduced because of the big government meddling into the banking and lending industries with the CRA and with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. That was absolutely not a problem created by republicans; that's a problem completely created by democrats with the CRA and with democrats not wanting to investigate the financial crisis being perpetrated as a result of many Fannie and Freddie bad practices. Banks and financial institutions did take advantage of the bad practices and the lack of good regulations to reign in bad practices, but none of it would've ever happened if govenment had not created the problems. Giving sub-prime loans to people who were completely unqualified to get them was a very bad idea from the start. I party blame republicans for not repealing the CRA when they had the power, but the major blame is on the democrats side.
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Blah...blah...blah...

You must love hearing yourself talk to yourself all day.

Moron.

lol
@Linux Geek,

Thanks but no thanks for the comment. Whether I agree with you or not is not the issue. There are two ways to say your point: the right way, and the wrong way.

You chose the wrong way.

One of the most important things in persuasive writing is to avoid name-calling, and facts without evidence. You are not doing yourself, your party, or your beliefs a favor by writing the comment that you did. If you don't have the time to back up your arguments with evidence, or keywords that will lead people to evidence, then please refrain from posting.
@Linux Geek - what makes you think that voting for the people who helped CAUSE the economic mess in the first place will be bothered to repeal all the tax cuts they put in to begin with? Made during times of war... two wars... and who gave money to companies THAT offshored jobs?

http://www.ontheissues.org/john_mccain.htm#Corporations

BTW: We heard "tax cuts create jobs" all last decade. Explain to us why that tactics kept failing all those times but will work if more are made?

Also, Palin has a history of quitting her jobs - not just her governor job as well... http://blog.buzzflash.com/alerts/802

She's got double-standards on health care as well - especially when she needed it.

I suggest you really look up your purported heroes.
plain and simple.

The logic may be beyond your understanding, but, socialism is what has caused the damage to the economy, and that damage has been about 100 years in the making.

Tax cuts are the best incentive to create jobs, that along with cutting so much government intrusion into the economy with so many regulations.

High taxes and too many regulations and government intrusion into the markets is what has sent our industries and jobs overseas. Companies are in business to make money, and when money is harder to make, then those companies will look for ways to cut their expenses, but, if those expenses had not been so high because of so much government intervention, those jobs would still be getting filled by Americans within our shores.

Cutting taxes has always stimulated economic growth, and with growth comes the jobs. Hiking taxes ALWAYS reduces the incentive to produce, and thus, the production is move overseas in order for many companies to remain competitive or even to stay in business.

Also, every time it's been tried, cutting taxes has always led to economic growth and the creation of jobs, and to boot, it has also led to higher tax revenues to government. The opposite is true with hiking taxes, where companies will have less to invest and less with which to pay salaries and other cost of doing business. Taxes and regulations and government intrusion into the markets is what has directly and indirectly has led to the economic collapse and the loss of jobs. Socialism, as being practiced by democrats/progressives, is what has killed the economy and what has the country in such deep debt.

Try to learn the facts before putting out your ignorant statements.
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@Linux Geek - "Obamacare" is just another slide-job. Try "Bigpharmacare", which - by the way - looks a lot like what REPUBLICANS proposed in the early 1990s: http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/graphics/2010/022310-bill-comparison.aspx

Now look at what your buddies propose now, in that chart. Yes, that even includes you.
@Linux Geek
Name all the famous people in history that cut taxes and started wars at the same time.
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Let's see how good you do.
How about your war criminal Bush. Easy answer for the toilet tea bagger
In fact, the best contribution you could make is to just sit quietly in a corner somewhere while allowing the adults to to make their contributions without your nonsense.
You wanted an answer so now you got it, toe-tapper.
@Linux Geek What you represent is the misinformed illiterate that voted in the teabaggers that are most of the problem right now to FIXING this economy. I'm sorry you don't like having health care. Some people...Oh about 50 MILLION would like to HAVE health care and can't afford it because people like you choose to give tax breaks to companies already paying NO TAXES AT ALL. Rupert Murdoch's empire made over 4 BILLION in tax refunds on top of over 10 BILLION in earnings last year! Here's a novel idea! Why don't we give those tax breaks to the MIDDLE class WHERE JOBS ARE CREATED (by the way) instead giving a whopping 10 percent tax cut to the uber super rich that didn't need a tax break in the first place and are doing NOTHING with the tax break they got but depositing it while laughing at people like you for letting them have it.

You need to wake up. You have a one sided view of this whole thing that is nothing but parroting of the lies from Fox News. The FACT is you need to run to to the White House and kiss the presidents feet half this country isn't currently out of work right now, because this mess could have been on the catastrophic level if Palin and Geezer had been elected.

I'm not trying to offend you. I'm trying to tell you to listen because if you don't there won't be a country before long. The Republicans are doing their flat level best to give the entire country to the rich or highest bidder pretty much wholesale and enslave what's left of the populous in corporate slavery.
in 2006. That's a major cause for the problems we're having right now.

You apparently have no idea what the "tea bag" people represent, because, it's them that have the much better solutions to our debt and to the jobless situation. Your solution and that of the democrats is to do more of the same that has us about to go over a cliff.

BTW, FOX news has nothing to do with what the tea party is doing or wants. FOX was there before the "tea party" even got started, and the tea party idea was actually "begun" by a business reporter from CNBC, and last I heard, CNBC is not owned by FOX.

When it comes to being misinformed, everything you stated above is a reflections of your ignorance. Doing more of the same that got us into deep trouble is equivalent to insanity.

BTW, most taxes are paid by the rich and middlej-class, with the poor paying virtually nothing. The top 1% or earners pay more than 40% of taxes, the top 50% pay more than 97% of taxes, while the bottom 50% pay just 3% of taxes.

Economic growth and jobs, come from those who know how to manage money and run businesses. Government just consumes and kills jobs and businesses. Taking more from those at the top will, for certain, result in more businesses closing down and more jobs lost. That's the way it works and has always worked. It's time to find a different formula to rescue the economy, and that formula does not include doing the same with the same democrats and Obama. The country would be a heck of a lot better off if the democrats would stop their socialism and would concentrate on what's goof for the economy and the nation.
@Linux Geek "tax breaks for job creators" That's the biggest lie ever perpetrated on the American public. The middle class is what creates jobs and you need to take a GOOD look at how much the middle class got vs. what CEO's got. CEO's don't create jobs and their companies don't pay taxes now. So who exactly got these tax breaks? NOT the ones creating jobs, I can tell you that much. The middle class got a whopping less than 1 percent. The uber rich got a whopping TEN...YES TEN percent!!! I don't know what kind of job creation that is but it certainly isn't a formula that works quite obviously and definitely is in dire contradiction with the Reagan philosophy of improving and growing the middle class to create jobs.
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Might?
Tommy S. 14th Jul
Why should the US pay their soldiers over their debt? The soldiers that are deployed dont need money at all, just pay the expenses.

Down with the GOP.

Americans deserve their fate for being intellectually weak.
@Tommy S.
Hey just want to say your welcome. As a member of the US Military, I help defend your right to say whatever you want. Instead of taking pay from hard working Americans who take less money to do a job much harder for reasons you can never understand, take if from the people who got into this mess to begin with. Congress. Also, I am not saying one political party is more to blame then another, but as I recall the economy started the downward trend as the housing market went bad. The reason the housing market went bad because so many Frannie Mae and Freddie Mac housing loans defaulted. These programs although not called got started back during the Truman Presidency. I believe it was during the Clinton Years when the First Ladies big project was every American to own the American Dream. So to allow this to happen banks were asked to give sub prime loans. Not blaming, just stating facts.
@loggie48mxg Congress shouldnt get paid either, nobody working for the federal govt should get paid. The priority looks like this: Debt > SS or part of it > Emergency healthcare > Material need of the DoD and there is no more money left. Do you believe that I am saying that you guys dont deserve to be paid? This is just pragmatism.
@loggie48mxg +100!!!!!
The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned.

What rebellion or insurrection are we suppressing? I know, nothing is as permanent as a temporary measure...but the 14th Amendment came out of the Civil War, and that condition highlighted is kind of important.

We are on an unsustainable course. Everyone's going to be unhappy with the outcomes. The money from the "super rich" isn't sufficient to solve the problem.

Assuming interest rates don't go up, the interest payments on our debts as a society will exceed the DoD budget in 2014. Neither Social Security nor Medicare generate enough revenues to cover their outlays, and Social Security is full of IOUs.

Everyone's going to get their sacred cow gored. Protesting that sacred cow X is more important than sacred cow Y? Just political grandstanding...
@Ad Astra
Are you trying to impose context into the constitution? Good luck!
For the Democrates, it is the seniors, disabled and soldiers that are the sacred cows

For the Republicans, their sacred cows are the wealthy, greedy and profiteers.

During these hard times, companies maintain high profits even though the economy is bad. The maintain their profits and golden paychecks and dividends for share holders by maintaining high prices and conveniently laying off workers.

The Republicans got us into this mess, during the Bush Era and now the Republicans want the poor and middle class and the "poor rich" to be financially responsible for the rich and super rich

In the end, the business's will have to pick up their long overdue burden and pay their fair share of taxes. In the end, it is business's that have more to loose if they don't.

The poor will continue to survive and if social security, medicare and soldier wages are cut, then this will only add another blow to the economy and business's.
@databaseben@... Except putting massive taxes on the wealthy doesn't work. Why? Because they just go bury their money in a hole (i.e. T Bills), which hurts the economy even more. While I'm not saying Bush didn't spend us into a hole, Obama certainly didn't help with his massive spending that didn't do much of anything. Hell, we can't even afford to get healthcare anymore because his bill almost doubled our premiums.
hate and envy so much will get you a good paying job? Oh. Wait. You just want a handout. Because you're selfless and altruistic.
@databaseben@...

If the democrats care about seniors - soldiers ------ then why is the Presdident using statements aimed to scare them? I keep reading that the US take in 200 billion per month in taxes, etc. Debt service will cost us 30 billion per month. 28 for soocial security per month. The President and his appointees get to pick which has the priority. The republicans got us into this mess? I seem to recall they didn't have control of congress for the last couple of years Bush was in office. I also seem to recall hearing top house and senate democrats repeatedly deny there was any looming problem with housing. That seems to have been the major start of the financial meltdown. They could have passed anything they wanted but couldn't even pass a budget. Instead the wasted all that time on health care which most don't want and only seems to save money when you use creative numbers. Remember when Obama said he wouldn't sign it if it went over a trillion. Gee low and behold they removed the doctor fix of 200 billion and now he could sign without going back on his word. Of course the 200 billion still had to be delt with. Republicians with no taxes is just as stupid. If you want to beleive it's all Bush's fault that the Democrats annd Obama aren't just as much to blame that's fine. Just sit back and take another hit off the bong you're holding. The it's all Bush's fault has worn thin and as the years roll by less and less objective people beleive it. Taxes have to be increased and entitlements have to go down.
@Joe Dufflebag
1.) They should probably impose a National sales tax of 2.0%, that is only to be used for reducing the national debt. Once the debt is paid up it could be reduced or removed.
2.) No more allowing Congress to give themselves a raise!
3.) No special retirement plans for Congress, etc.
4.) Current salaries of Congress to be cut in half. if they can't live on that, get a second job. It used to be that they never got paid for being in office, they always had a regular job they worked at.

Let's start with these and see where we can go.....
0 Votes
+ -
Wow! So wrong on so many levels!
adornoe@... 18th Jul
While you sounded like a reasonable person with your rhetoric and tried to be civic in communicating your feelings, I have to retort to your post as so, well, how should I put it... ... ... so ... ... ... uneducated! So... ignorant.

Look, no matter how much you may believe that any form of socialism is needed or valuable, the fact is that, it never functions as advertised, and it has always failed. Socialism is a killer to any economy, even if many of the ideas from the ideology sound well-intended. Good intentions do not make for a healthy economy. Good intentions do not grow any economy. Those intentions may start out doing some good, but eventually, they start hurting the economy; it just takes time, sometimes decades.

Capitalism is not a perfect system either, but, there is not system in the history of the world that can match the wealth-creation capabilities of the system; not socialism and not communism and not any other system.

Capitalism will, by its nature, create wealthy individuals, and greed is something that, while it may sound evil, does a lot of good to the economy. Greedy people create wealth, and everybody around them, directly and indirectly, are elevated to higher levels. The rich and the inventive and the entrepreneurs and the ambitious, are the people who need to be "incentivized" to make the economy richer, because, as they make the economy grow, more and more people are elevated from poverty. No other system can erase poverty as effectively as free-market capitalism, and, once we moved away from that system to a system that attempts to take care of people through government services that confiscate wealth from businesses and people, that's when free-market capitalism became something else entirely, and that's why we are in the bind we have right now.

There is no recovery unless we reverse course and undo the socialism in the system and come back to "real" free market capitalism.

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