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Hardware 2.0

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Bricked Xbox 360 leads to $5M lawsuit against Microsoft

By | December 11, 2006, 6:03am PST

Back in early November I covered a story about a Microsoft Xbox Live update which bricked at least one console.  At the time a few readers commented saying that they wouldn't be surprised if this ended up in a lawsuit - well, they were right!

Kevin Ray of California claims that his Xbox 360 was bricked by the Xbox Live update on November 1 and claims that Microsoft would not fix his console unless he paid up $140 (it is a little hazy whether Ray's console was modded or not).  Ray then filed the class action in a Washington federal court.  This seeks over $5 million in damages and free repair of all Xbox 360s damaged by the update.

Poll

Bricked Xbox - Should Microsoft pick up the tab?

It's hard to see if this case is going to go anywhere.  On the one hand Microsoft claims that the number of affected consoles is tiny, while lawyers for Ray say this isn't so and that "a Google search of the terms 'xbox 360' and 'brick' or 'bricking' shows over 15,000 results."  I've done similar searches and it doesn't prove anything - I just did a search for "poodle bursts into flames" and got 69,000 hits, but that doesn't point to a defect in poodles which causes them to spontaneously combust.  What's more interesting that Googling about the problem is keeping an eye on Xbox related sites such as Major Nelson.  The chatter there does seem to indicate that both the Fall update and the late November 1080p update caused a number of users a significant amount of grief.

This isn't the first Xbox 360 related lawsuit - The first was filed in Illinois by Chicago resident Robert Byers on December 2, 2005, just weeks after the console launched.  Byers claimed that the Xbox 360 was "known to Microsoft to contain a design defect," when it was discovered that some consoles ran too hot and overheated.  The two cases share one similarity - the lawyers filed suit without having any real evidence for the scale of the problem - websites, blog posts and forum threads just isn't the kind of evidence a judge wants to see.  On top of that, the lawsuit didn't even claim that Byers had himself encountered any problems with his console.  The upshot of this case was that on March 29, 2006, Byers filed for voluntary dismissal.

My take on this is simple - if a Microsoft update trashes an unmodded console, it should pick up the tab for a fix.  Period.  Maybe the real design issue here is that it's too easy to trash the firmware in the first place and that it's too hard to fix it - pretty much the same problem that BIOSes had a few years ago.  A simple recovery routine that allowed the user to reflash from USB key or disc would dramatically reduce on downtime and the number of returns under warranty - everyone's then happy! 

As for the lawsuit, I think it's another example of frivolous use of the courts.  All hardware is prone to problems, but this problem didn't cause any loss of life, injury, damage or loss of property so asking for $5 million is extreme to say the least.  If I could get $5M for everything that went wrong around me … well, I'd be blogging from my own personal Hawaiian island.

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Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology.

Disclosure

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

All opinions expressed on Hardware 2.0 are those of Adrian Kingsley-Hughes. Every effort is made to ensure that the information posted is accurate. If you have any comments, queries or corrections, please contact Adrian via the email link here. Any possible conflicts of interest will be posted below. [Updated: February 23, 2010] - Adrian Kingsley-Hughes has no business relationships, affiliations, investments, or other actual/potential conflicts of interest relating to the content posted so far on this blog.

Biography

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology -- whether that be by learning to program, building a PC from a pile of parts, or helping them get the most from their new MP3 player or digital camera.

Adrian has authored/co-authored technical books on a variety of topics, ranging from programming to building and maintaining PCs. His most recent books include "Build the Ultimate Custom PC", "Beginning Programming" and "The PC Doctor's Fix It Yourself Guide". He has also written training manuals that have been used by a number of Fortune 500 companies.

Adrian also runs a popular blog under the name The PC Doctor, where he covers a range of computer-related topics -- from security to repairing and upgrading.

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My 360 bricked in November due to the Fall Update as well
ice_relo2k2@... 15th Feb 2007
It's not just him. The guy who wrote the article has no clue how many people Microsoft affected with their Fall 2006 Update(or I can it the Fall 2006 Virus). It affected mine, but thankfully I bought a $100 warranty from Circuit City, and got it refunded. I didn't even want to file a complaint or confront Microsoft about it I was so ticked off. Thanks Microsoft for bricking my console, I just won't purchase any other 'MS' labelled products anytime soon.
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I think there is a problem here
xuniL_z 11th Dec 2006
Is it possible, when staging a vote with 2 possible choices, for one choice to have 100% and the other 30%?

Once again this proves beyond any shadow of a doubt that this site is littered with anti-MS zealots and very few objective people trying to get reasonable information on any IT forum whether it include MS or not. What a waste.
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Contributr
I'm seeing ...
Adrian Kingsley-Hughes 11th Dec 2006
84%/16% with 19 votes - which sounds OK to me.
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it was showing 100 to 30 when I posted.
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I'm seeing.....
xuniL_z 11th Dec 2006
391 votes. does that mean you were lying when you posted??

In fact, when I posted you had to vote to see the totals...which were as I stated....unless you want to say otherwise?
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5 Million?
da_king 11th Dec 2006
Ridiculous. What for? The laywer fees and loss of a nightlife? He's probably already one of those auto injury lawyers trying to squeeze what he can.
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Ummm. 84% plus 16% equals 100%
nomorems 11th Dec 2006
Your pro-Microsoft religious zealotry is making you look like the fool you are.
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you got me good
xuniL_z 11th Dec 2006
I was lying that it said 100% and 30% when I posted. It's part of the MS training to lie even though you'll be found out.
even still, it's nice to see the vast majority of those here are linux and apple shills. As I've stated many times with fools like you saying I was wrong.
By the way, I'm not in favor of any one OS and I use, recommedn what works. But on the other hand your moniker clearly shows the man behind the mentality....a moron.
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Sarcasm...
Information_z 11th Dec 2006
I've heard that sarcasm is the lowest form of humour, and irony must be right beside it.

I guess that shows how little it takes to amuse me, because I can't stop chuckling...

Does anyone know what the highest form of humour is? Slapstick perhaps?

Men of yesterday used to solve these problems in a way that prevented people from repeating thier mistakes.

I wonder what good it is if it is bricked? My guess is no good, right?

I am surprized that some person with a anger management issue hasn't delivered a unit back to the head office through a glass covered mail slot (window...). Of course I wouldn't condone this kind of act, how could I, but when people aren't treated properly they usually get irate and bring the issue to a speady solution. That is (after all) the joy of living in the USA. Everyone gets a vote, whether it is on the ballet, with their dollars or through their discontent.

Why do we have to get the court involved when MS provides a non-functioning unit?
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That Sucks
bobiroc 11th Dec 2006
If the XBOX was truley rendered useless because of the update then MS should definately repair it. However it was because the user moddded it or some other hardware defect then no the user should pay. The console comes with a 90 day warranty just like every other console and if failed hardware is the cause then it could have just been pure coincidence.

But regardless, $5 Million is a little rediculus don't ya think. Its just an XBOX. This should be settled in small claims court not on this big of a level. If a failed XBOX is causing him $5M in pain and suffering then this guy has bigger problems and should see a therapist or something.
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ROTFLMAO
GMTobias 11th Dec 2006
Gee, I thought part of the whole advantage these consoles had over computers was the fixed hardware/firmware and a lack of these sorts of crashes/lockups/failures...

M$ screwed up the guy's XBox with their update, and refuse to make good, I say he should be awarded the $5Mil, just to send a mesasage to fat-cat corporations...
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exactly
Hogleg 11th Dec 2006
MS is an entity unto itself. It pays no taxes and employs no people! It is only pure unmitigated evil, which causes products to develop themselves and poof out of thin air.

Five million bucks because your game console quit working under nebulous circumstances is stupid, and anyone who STILL refers to MicroSoft as M$ has already pretty much punched their idiot ticket with me.
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What's so funny?
John Zern 11th Dec 2006
That Microsoft refuses to fix a modified Xbox?


I think the guy screwed it up beyong repair, and is trying to get Microsoft to send him a new one for free...
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RE: What's so funny?
JakAttak 11th Dec 2006
>That Microsoft refuses to fix a modified Xbox?

The problem is these bricked consoles are not necessarily modified. Mine was bricked by the latest update that was supposed to fix some 1080p issues. Now I don't have a TV capable of displaying 1080p and would have gladly skipped the update given a choice, but there is no choice. Basically if you want to sign into XBOX Live (which I do), then you have to accept the updates they offer.

My 360 has never been modified. It's a launch day system that worked flawlessly up until they released this patch. After several phone calls MS did agree to fix it and pay shipping, but it shouldn't take a lot of effort to get that level of customer service. Their patches bricked MANY 360s ( simple stroll through the xbox.com forums will tell you that much) that otherwised worked before then. They broke it, they need to fix it.
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It's not just him. The guy who wrote the article has no clue how many people Microsoft affected with their Fall 2006 Update(or I can it the Fall 2006 Virus). It affected mine, but thankfully I bought a $100 warranty from Circuit City, and got it refunded. I didn't even want to file a complaint or confront Microsoft about it I was so ticked off. Thanks Microsoft for bricking my console, I just won't purchase any other 'MS' labelled products anytime soon.
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MS should fix it.
osreinstall 11th Dec 2006
If found out to be modded, then the customer pays the bill. Otherwise this is a warranty job. I mean afterall they have the machine. Also $140 to reflash it is a bit steep. As for the $5 million lawsuit, WTF is this boy smoking? Sounds like moral outrage displayed in the courts is masking the actions of a pirate. A stupid one too. People should know by now that updates from MS also check for legitimacy.

Hello! WGA! Just another dumbass.
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well if its really a update
Quebec-french 11th Dec 2006
that damage/cause trouble or anything. they should paid the repair. the 5 million is only a big fat stick to make MS that the guy is serious.

MS will have to realize that they are responsible for there update.
If that guy did not tempered with its xbox and its microsoft update that screw up .....



They should pay for the repair failure to comply should yes end up with extreme-mesure and fat monetary punishment.

Corporation will have to face responsability and face justice on there action.
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My 360 was bricked
Renceward 11th Dec 2006
My 360 was bricked by the late November update. Now in my case it isn't even a question of who is going to pay to have it fixed. I had heard about some of the technical glitches with the 360 so I had purchased the extended warranty. No matter what, mine is supposed to be covered.

But I can't even get them to successfully open a repair order for my 360. I am told that a repair order is opened, call back the next day to find out that it was cancelled without reason. I am assured that a new one will be opened, I call back the next day and find that it didn?t happen. Escalated to supervisors, promises are made but not kept etc. I?ve had several reps confess to me that currently they are having major problems with the whole return / repair system. It sounds like currently MS is swamped with repair requests and isn?t able to handle the flood. Ten days later and I still don?t have a repair order for my under warranty, bricked, 360.
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So Glad I waited
bobiroc 11th Dec 2006
Hearing stories like this makes me glad I didn't rush out to get generation 1 of the 360. Mainly it was a cost factor and I couldn't really afford it, but it is also nice to let them work out the kinks and glitches. This is also one of the main reasons I am waiting on the PS3. Both Microsoft and Sony have been known with problems in their last two systems.

Hopefully my Wii will be a good system and if similar glitches occur I am confident that Nintendo will take care of its customers.
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Contributr
Nasty
Adrian Kingsley-Hughes 11th Dec 2006
I hope you get that fixed soon.
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extended warranty
JohnRussell 12th Dec 2006
I rarely purchase the big extended service agreement on electronics. In the long run it seems cheaper to self-insure...

Anyway, for my 360 I did. Almost a year later, something -- maybe the November update -- smoked me. Walked into my major retailer and they handed me a new one. Cool!

Unfortunately I did have to buy a new service agreement on the new one as well ... I'm not a fan of that. I guess the fact that they replace instead of repair makes that OK.

So I was frustrated last week about the machine locking up, maybe now at least I know why. pay $50 or get $5 million. Hmm...
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5 million?
username923 11th Dec 2006
Microsoft should have fixed it for free if the console was un-modded. However, I voted no on the poll, because of the $5 million in "damages." Microsoft should set this greedy little gamer out to sea. The only thing he shoudl get out of this at BEST, is a new $400 Xbox 360. The lack of a working 360 probably positively effected this person's entire life!
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It's relative
slopoke 11th Dec 2006
If you had made the console and created the update then I'd say $100 is about right for damages. To make Microsoft feel that same kind of pain they need to be hit for $5 million. No the guy filing the suit doesn't deserve that kind of money but if one of the results you are seeking is to get Microsoft to stand up to it's obligations then the $5M amount is necessary.
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i agree
gearsof360 11th Dec 2006
if the man modded his 360 he shouldnt get any type of refund,or a repair.besides,what if the modded 360 crashed it,not the update.........

and yes.....5mil........must ruined his life or suttin b/c i wouldnt ask 5mil for a game system!!!its entertainment,not life.
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Was it modded or not?
No_Ax_to_Grind 11th Dec 2006
If it was then no, MS owes him nothing. Read the warranty on just about anything, if you mod it, there is no warranty.
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And if it was not?
Sabz5150 12th Dec 2006
What then Axey? If a legitimate software update from Microsoft themselves caused his 360 to be a brick, then they should pick up the tab 100%. If they were aware of this potential bricking when they released the update, they should be even more liable.

Now, Microsoft isn't alone in this debacle... Sony's 3.01 firmware update bricked many a PSP because it was only compatible with certain revisions of the portable. Of course the user didn't know this when they updated. Doesn't help that it was released not 24 hours after the much awaited 3.00 firmware.

Sony is pulling the same thing that MS is... pay us and we'll fix it. Noooooooooooo... you broke it, you fix it!
If the product was modified in a way that ruined the update, the matter is different.

You know if D-Link or Netgear released a firmware update that trashed their routers, they would probably pick up the tab. Same for any other hardware company. Why should Microsoft be any different.

One other thing I question is, did the person seek to replace his X-Box 360 first or did he go straight for his lawyer?
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Excellent!
We had our xbox 360 since May 2006, not a single problem, never moved the 360, great ventilation, loaded the Nov Update, pixilation?s-freezes-death.
- 1st call - Out of warranty - pay $140.00 , decided to wait and ask the internet for help.
- 2nd call - free repair/free shipping, currently waiting on the replacement (hopefully this week).
Bad Feeling while reading the 360 forums seems that many of these replacement units are DOA. Some owners are on their 3rd,4th or even 5th replacement 360.
Really Bad Feeling, there appears to be a type of human who
finds the 360 such an excellent product that they spend their idle time looking for 360 hardware_failure forums and blogs to "explain how minor the failure rate percentage is", "imply the 360 was modified" "imply incorrect ventilation" due to the location, on and on... Just like you see within these comments posted here on ZDNet.
No relationship to MicroSoft's PR firm http://www.edelman.com/ of course!
Now I ask you, when was the last time you had a product that you were so satisfied with, that you would spend time to search out dissatisfied customers to tell them how great it is?
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Repaired at no cost
MaxOnTheEdge 12th Dec 2006
Received a refurbished 360 today 12/12, Microsoft paid all shipping and repair costs since it appeared to be related to the Nov update load even though my 360 warranty was expired.
Thanks Microsoft!!
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Trust Microsoft fools
wizardb@... 11th Dec 2006
Microsoft can't even make software without it freezing and crashing and you people trusted them to make your hardware.Stupid is as stupid does
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more then likey
gearsof360 11th Dec 2006
i think this guy is just lookin for some spare money to get his 360 modded a bit more!!!!!!!!!!!!i dont agree why this guy cant grow up,and drop the lawsuit.ITS A FREAKIN GAME DUDE NOT UR LIFE AND IF UR GUNNA MAKE A BIG DEAL AND SUE FOR 5MIL,THEN YOU SHOULD STOP MODDING THE G.D 360!!!!!!!!!!!
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no mod
MaxOnTheEdge 12th Dec 2006
The update causes an unmodded 360 to fail, data and/or cause/effect is not provided by MicroSoft.
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Fantastic!
MaxOnTheEdge 12th Dec 2006
Had to update my post, just got our xbox 360 refurbished unit back and it work greats! MicroSoft replaced it at no charge too!
They received the 360 on 12/5/06 and it was delivered today 12/12/06.
Thanks MicroSoft!
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Contributr
Nice one!
Adrian Kingsley-Hughes 13th Dec 2006
happy
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I hope a wise Judge hears this case!
jstasiak@... 12th Dec 2006
ANd if he does I hope he awards this idiot the $140 bucks that Microsoft should cover. But let him pay his own damn court costs and lawyer's fee
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this kids got a point!!
gearsof360 12th Dec 2006
listen if this guy actually modded his 360,then he should get the 140 but not anything else,so if the judge is wise he will find the right verdict and finally give this guy a hush hush.
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If he modded..
bobiroc 12th Dec 2006
If the 360 is modded then he should not get a penny. Microsoft cannot assume any liability for a modded console no matter if their update trashed it or not. I am pretty sure it states that any modification voids all warranty terms.
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YOU ARE ALL MORONS!!!
JimmyJo 12th Dec 2006
God do some research before you run your mouths, perhaps read the article also.

#1 The lawyers for the guy say that his console is NOT modified. How stupid would he have to be to file a lawsuit when he knows hes breaking the TOS? Use some common sense people.

#2 This is a CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT which for those of you who don't know (which looks like all of you) which means that he if fighting for EVERYONE who was effected by the update, which once again you would know if you READ the article. So that means the 5MIL is NOT for him but to be split between those effected so he will get the same amount that the rest of you get.

#3 How can you not justify his claim? Heres an example you may be able to relate to.....You buy a car and its running great for a year and one day the manufacturer calls you and says "were giving mandatory brake line replacements" so you bring your car in and they change them for you. On the drive home your breaks fail and you crash your car, and the manufacturer says "GEE thats too bad give us $5,000 and we will replace\fix it for you". IS THAT FAIR ?????

That is all, good night.....
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Your analogy sucks
bobiroc 13th Dec 2006
So the Lawyer says the xbox is not modified. Yeah cuz they tell the truth all the time. I think that has yet to be determined and it may be true.

If he is fighting for the cost of everybody you are telling me that more than 35,000 people are having this problem because that is how many people times $140 = $5,000,000

And your analogy sucks because his XBOX dying is not where near like your car accident. He received no bodily harm, no time off of work or loss of wages and his life was not threatened in any way. Its just a game console.

Now I agree that Microsoft should foot the bill if their update caused the problem on an un-modified XBOX, but I still think this person is taking this a little too far. Does anyone know about how many xboxes were affected this way by this update?
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A bit right...
JimmyJo 13th Dec 2006
OK I do agree that 5MIL is a bit much but understand the price is not set by the plaintiff it is set by the lawyer to line their pockets, don't get mad at the kid hes just trying to get his **** fixed he probably wont get a damn penny for this. And quit analyzing the analogy .....here ill fix it for you he gets new tires in exchange for his old ones (which were fine)from manufacturer and on the way home they blow out (mind you he has a spare or can purchase spares so NO bodily harm or missing work for him) should he have to foot the bill to get his tires fixed ? There is that one better for you Buddy?
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Not mad at the kid
bobiroc 13th Dec 2006
I am not necessarily mad at the kid, he has every right to be upset. I just think this has been taken a bit far and find that many people are sue happy and as soon as something goes wrong they are ready to sue. I have been searching the net and cannot seem to find any concrete numbers on how many people were affected by this and out the people affected how many were taken care of and how many were not. If it is only a matter of time then he should be patient and just keep trying and file a claim with the better business bureau or something before sueing for an exorbitant amount of money.

I am sorry but I have to analyze the analogies because they are different situations. Your most recent one is not very fitting either because you failed to describe what caused the blow out. Did he run over a nail or hit a pot hole because the manufacturer cannot be responsible for that. A car comparison analogy can work for many things in technology, but I am not sure if you can fit it into this situation.
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perhaps a fitting example
Daybee 14th Dec 2006
Might I suggest a fitting example:
you buy a XBOX 360 from CostCo. It breaks. You return it to CostCo who pays you back and you buy a new one from the floor, that day. 1. you get your xbox fixed. 2. you get one that day. 3. you don't lose life, liberty or the pursuit of happiness and Microsoft does not pay 5 Mill, and, best of all, the layers don't get a damn thing...

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