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Can Zune HD topple the iPod touch?

By | August 13, 2009, 7:26am PDT

Microsoft is having a hard time breaking into the portable media player market, but can the combination of the Zune HD, along with undercutting Apple be what finally works?

The Zune so far really wasn’t the success that Microsoft had hoped that it would be. Or, to put it more bluntly, compared to Apple, it’s been a flop. OK, not a total flop, but lets just say it didn’t live up to the hype.

The Zune HD seems different to other devices in the Zune lineup. It’s basically an iPod touch without the App Store. In fact, in some ways it’s better than the iPod touch in that it offers HD radio and a OLED screen. And here’s the sweet part - Microsoft has confirmed that a Zune HD with 16GB of storage will sell for $219.99, while the 32GB version will set you back $289.99. Compare this to the iPod touch, where Apple wants $299 for the 16GB model and a whopping $399 for the 32GB model. At a time when people are price-sensitive, this has the potential to be a popular buy this holiday season.

Poll

Zune HD ... interested?

There are gaps though. So far, I don’t see an email client, which is a real shame. That’s a deal-breaker as far as I’m concerned. I wonder if for others the lack of apps might be the deal-breaker.

Thoughts?

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Topics

Apple iPod, Microsoft Zune, Apple iPod Touch, Zune HD, Digital Music, Digital Media, Personal Technology, Consumer Electronics, Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology.

Disclosure

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

All opinions expressed on Hardware 2.0 are those of Adrian Kingsley-Hughes. Every effort is made to ensure that the information posted is accurate. If you have any comments, queries or corrections, please contact Adrian via the email link here. Any possible conflicts of interest will be posted below. [Updated: February 23, 2010] - Adrian Kingsley-Hughes has no business relationships, affiliations, investments, or other actual/potential conflicts of interest relating to the content posted so far on this blog.

Biography

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology -- whether that be by learning to program, building a PC from a pile of parts, or helping them get the most from their new MP3 player or digital camera.

Adrian has authored/co-authored technical books on a variety of topics, ranging from programming to building and maintaining PCs. His most recent books include "Build the Ultimate Custom PC", "Beginning Programming" and "The PC Doctor's Fix It Yourself Guide". He has also written training manuals that have been used by a number of Fortune 500 companies.

Adrian also runs a popular blog under the name The PC Doctor, where he covers a range of computer-related topics -- from security to repairing and upgrading.

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MS Zealots are hysterical...
i8thecat 15th Sep 2009
It's funny how they don't have any clue about
the iPhone and that it always was a mobile
computer running OS X... I still have my first
gen iPhone and it works perfectly. I bought
mine because I knew what it was and that the
best was yet to come. But at the time I bought
it, it had and still has the best user
experience of any device.

It's also funny how the MS Apologist like to
say that Winblows phones had apps for years
before the iPhone and that the iPhone was 5
generations behind... Yet the iPhone has more
apps than all others combined... Over 70
thousand and growing...

If you want to talk about being generations
behind... How bout Windows Mobile and even the
"new" updated Zune HD...

"What?s ?new? in the release of the Zune HD is
a different version of the mobile IE browser,
based not upon the creaky IE 4 engine from 1997
(still delivered in today?s Windows Mobile
devices), but a mobile version of IE 6, which
dates back to 2001. That leaves the Zune HD?s
browser nearly a decade behind the modern
WebKit browsers used in the iPhone, Palm Pre,
Android, and modern BlackBerry phones."

If you care to read it all Zealot...

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/09/14/from-
oled-to-tegra-five-myths-of-the-zune-hd/

There is a reason people call it Winblows. And
there is a reason the iPhone is dominating the
market... People want it. People like it.
People enjoy it. You claim Apple doesn't give
choices, but yet they give people more than 70
thousand choices. How many choices does your
_________ (fill in the blank with lame device
name) give you?
View in thread
0 Votes
+ -
Competition is good for everyone.
tonyhunterajh Updated - 13th Aug 2009
I am an apple fan and I am in no way interested in having a Zune; however, the fact that MS has a competing product is a good thing. It will put Apple in a position where it will have to also compete! This is good.
0 Votes
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Problem is... The Zune HD doesn't offer ANY competition...
i8thecat 15th Sep 2009
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/09/14/from-
oled-to-tegra-five-myths-of-the-zune-hd/

The HD in HD Radio officially doesn?t stand for
anything anymore, but it was originally for
?hybrid digital,? because HD Radio is all about
replacing or augmenting analog radio with
digital transmissions.

The OLED display sucks. The Zune HD?s OLED
screen isn?t high definition in the sense of
HDTV. The screen itself is only 480?272, which
is significantly less than the iPhone/iPod
touch at 480?320. Microsoft is promoting is the
Zune HD?s capacity to output 720p HD video
(when using its HDMI dock).

What?s ?new? in the release of the Zune HD is a
different version of the mobile IE browser,
based not upon the creaky IE 4 engine from 1997
(still delivered in today?s Windows Mobile
devices), but a mobile version of IE 6, which
dates back to 2001. That leaves the Zune HD?s
browser nearly a decade behind the modern
WebKit browsers used in the iPhone, Palm Pre,
Android, and modern BlackBerry phones.

If you ask me.... The Zune HD doesn't even
begin to compete with anything Apple is
selling.... The only thing that drives sales is
that it gives the Apple haters an option to
look like dorks.
0 Votes
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Similar to, but different FROM (nt)
Economister 13th Aug 2009
nt
0 Votes
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RE: Can Zune HD topple the iPod touch?
netzd 13th Aug 2009
There's no way the new Zune is going to hurt the iPod. The reality is, it doesn't really matter how great the hardware is - without the apps it's just a piece of high-tech junk!

Besides, for Apple dropping the price and adding an OLED screen, or HD Radio ( would be no big problem - Apple could add those in a heartbeat!

Besides, the Zune doesn't have the 'buzz' of the iPod or access to the world's largest and most popular music store - iTunes.

Microsoft has done a great job on the Zune HD, but I don't think it will be enough to kill of the iPod anytime soon, because for one thing, like the rising of the sun tomorrow, you can be assured that Apple has it's own upgrades in store for the iPod.

For that, I can't wait.
0 Votes
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RE: Can Zune HD topple the iPod touch?
msantti 13th Aug 2009
Well, I am betting on a camera and video with the new
touch.

$229 for a 16GB and $299 for a 32GB.

Add in the app store.

End of story.

Can't underestimate a camera with video capability.
The Zune HD does not have either.

But yeah, that OLED screen is nice. Apple will go in
that direction but I doubt they can secure the
quantities needed. No probalem for MS. THey won't have
near the volume in sales.

0 Votes
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RE: Can Zune HD topple the iPod touch?
beatfarmer 13th Aug 2009
The apps are what make the Touch a compelling device.
Otherwise, you just have another media player. So the
Zune HD is just another media player (a nice one, but).

The touch is a ubiquitous device...a handheld computer
that fits in your pocket and can do a wide variety of things,
because of the apps you can load on it. It's a platform,
along with the iPhone. Lots of people can develop apps for
the iPhone OS. Can the same be said for the Zune HD? Is
there any plans to open up the Zune for development? Can
it do more than it's built in functions?

It may be successful as a media player, but unless it can
do more than a Touch, it won't come close to touching
one.
0 Votes
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Hmm.
Zedox 13th Aug 2009
Seeing that the first 3 generations of Zunes were able to have "application" aka games using Microsoft's XNA Framework, I'm going to bet that they are going to have something for it. Microsoft isn't going to just do apps, that's not the focus. It's focus is being a media player, THEN applications.
0 Votes
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I have to agree
djmik 13th Aug 2009
But to a point. Sure, MS might not want to push another handheld computer on the market that is ALSO a media player when you can refine the device as a media player only. For this to work though, they need more storage! They have to try to compete with the iPod classics that are just media players, and have the storage to support it. 32GB is not adequate for a media player which is why I will stick with my iPod classic.
0 Votes
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Of course
Zedox 13th Aug 2009
Zune 120 are competing with iPod Classic. MS has stated this. Zune HD is competing with iPod Touch, which MS also has stated. MS has also stated (well, the representative) that they will probably release 64 GB in the future a little bit. I'm guessing Apple will come out with 64 GB iPod Touch, so MS will be "forced" to be competitive if they really want to compete.

So all I'm saying is that it's trying to be more of a "media player" than the iPod Touch. So for all the people who want a touchscreen "media player" that isn't an iPod or something "better" (opinion) then they can try out the Zune HD.
0 Votes
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They need to do both NOW........
dave95. Updated - 13th Aug 2009
It needs to offer a device that's not only a good media player, but also one that offers the same level of Apps and features you'd find on the iPod Touch to compete. If they're not doing this then they will fail, again. The XNA games (or Apps) never developed the way it should have for the current gen Zunes. They were mainly for the homebrews types, not the general consumers.

With you saying they will focus first on being a "media player, THEN applications", is like a new company entering the cell phone space saying we will focus on making calls first, then all the extra features our competitor offers. Umm 2009?
0 Votes
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Ok
Zedox 13th Aug 2009
So come out with BOTH and then suck at one but good at the other...or come out with the thing that you are mainly making and add on to it. You are forgetting that they aren't marketing the Zune HD as a PDA, it is marketed as a Media Player. How much bad PR would they get for not having a GOOD APP STORE than if they didn't have a app store period and then add a good one? Could they potentially lose some customers because of that? Yes, of course, but they probably don't want bad PR (ala Vista).

Oh the XNA games that were made for anyone, they just didn't have a central place for anyone to get it. I'm guessing that's what you meant by not general consumers.

Oh and for the cell phone space analogy, need I remind you that the iPhone/iPod Touch didn't have an App Store to begin with and yes I do understand no one had an "app store" like how they have it now (centralized) but they did exist, just not brought to the limelight. They made a good PDA phone then added onto it. wink
0 Votes
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I just hear excuses excuses for MS....
dave95. 13th Aug 2009
How is it that Apple is able to transition their consumers over from the iPod Classics to iPod Touch and keep them happy? And at lower the drive space I may add? By offering them a PMP that's greatly improved over the last Classics, plus more. I have an iPod classic with much more drive space that is hardly used why? Because I am more satisfied with the iPod Touch as a PMP first. All the extra features like email, Apps are just icing. It is my media player I take everywhere. There is no sucking at one, and being good at the other here. The great Microsoft can't offer this?
0 Votes
+ -
Ok, once again
Zedox 13th Aug 2009
So the Zune HD is not greatly improved over the Zune 120? I'm done arguing with you, just mindless troll.
0 Votes
+ -
Do you know how many time's I've heard...
MissingMatter 13th Aug 2009
Do you know how many time's I've heard "I wish they would just make a cell phone that would make good calls"?

Just yesterday my cousin told me "I wish they would just make a car without all this **** like auto parking, reverse cameras, all this ******** that just ends up breaking. I want a nice quality car, with no extra crap"

Seems to me there's something to be said about doing one thing and doing it well.
0 Votes
+ -
Point taken, but......
dave95. 13th Aug 2009
The iPod, iPod Touch (iPhone), and many other PMP already plays back music well or well enough for the mass consumer in 2009. People in general are satisfied. This blog is about whether Zune HD will topple the iPod Touch (lol), or not. If Microsoft want's to target the small niche of consumer that may complain then go right ahead. They surely wont topple anything Apple doing so.

The iPod Touch makes a hell of a PMP. It does music/video very well. It is up 130% from last year in sales for a reason. As a podcast junkie, I am able to download the latest podcast over WiFi on the go, the Zune won't even be able to give me that.
0 Votes
+ -
And you can't do that
Zedox 13th Aug 2009
on the Zune HD because.....?
0 Votes
+ -
You can't download Podcast over WiFi like the Touch can
dave95. 13th Aug 2009
But feel free to correct me if I am wrong. wink

In an interview CNet did with a Zune team member, he confirmed that the ZuneHD won't offer this very important feature (no podcast syncing on the road over wifi like the iPod Touch).

http://reviews.cnet.com/8300-6490_7-49.html
0 Votes
+ -
Funny thing
rparker009 14th Aug 2009
My 3 yo PDA can do everything that the itouch does and much more.. and can even change out battieries
0 Votes
+ -
really?
vaporland 14th Aug 2009
Wow! So it can download and run apps from the App
Store? Amazing!

App Store = Zune DD (dead duck)
0 Votes
+ -
Is this a barrier to competition?
NonZealot 14th Aug 2009
So you say then that they only way anyone can compete is if they have access to Apple's App Store? Wow. Since Apple won't give anyone else access to the App Store and competition is impossible without that access, you've just convicted Apple of being a predatory monopolist!
0 Votes
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No. [nt]
olePigeon 14th Aug 2009
[nt]
0 Votes
+ -
RE: Can Zune HD topple the iPod touch?
EntropikOne 13th Aug 2009
i actually read somewhere that the zuneHD DOES handle e-mail...also what's great about it is its integration with xbox...and with microsoft launching their application store in the near future i think the zuneHD right now is a better buy than the ipod touch
0 Votes
+ -
E-Mail client?
Cylon Centurion 13th Aug 2009
On a PMP? Ok...


Personally, I'm interested in just a media player. Nothing else. Yes, it's one more gadget I have on me, but I hate killing my cell phones battery just to listen to music while waiting for class to start.
0 Votes
+ -
isn't this story is about iPod Touch Not iPhone...
doctorSpoc 13th Aug 2009
listening to music doesn't burn batteries.. movies
yes, games yes, but not music.
0 Votes
+ -
WOW!
Zedox 13th Aug 2009
LMAO! Music doesn't burn batteries? LMAO!
0 Votes
+ -
Nope.
Bruizer 14th Aug 2009
Listening to music, the batteries on the Touch go and go and go.

So saying listening to music does not "burn" batteries is correct.
0 Votes
+ -
No
Cylon Centurion 14th Aug 2009
I wasn't talking about either. I own a Samsung Sync, and listening to music on it kills the batt like crazy.
0 Votes
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Lack of apps?
MissingMatter 13th Aug 2009
In the engadget video the Zune rep said they're going to have games and they're going to have apps, but they're not disclosing that yet. Seems like that makes it a matter of when, not if.

Also, you failed to mention the real key behind the Zune: the Tegra processor. When you watch how fluid the Zune HD's UI is, you'll understand why the Tegra is so important. That power will translate directly into better games and longer battery life.
0 Votes
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RE: Can Zune HD topple the iPod touch?
eschase@... 13th Aug 2009
I doubt that the Zune HD can topple the iPod Touch.
From what I have seen it looks like a nice piece of
hardware. The whole HD thing is a gimmick. Everyone
fails to mention how large one HD (720p) movie is. One
HD movie comes in at around 3 or more GB. Put that on a
16 or 32 GB Zune HD and you use up a chunk of space.
The second thing that perplexes me is Mr. Eightball (Steve
Ballmer) made a big deal when the iPhone came out that
Microsoft was a software company and they were happy
with their model. It seems to me that with the XBox 360,
Zunes Mistersoftie is trying to emulate Apple and be a
closed ecosystem hardware company. Much of their
problem of late is that they are always late to the party.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: Can Zune HD topple the iPod touch?
gkent_z 13th Aug 2009
It looks like a good copy of the current iPod touch but for me
radio, who cares? I know some people may like it but really
how many? HD. I watch movies on my ipod. HD on a 3.5
inch screen. Not really useful and as previously mentioned a
big waste of hard drive space. Thirdly, what's next for the
next revision of the ipod? A mail function is very important
to me. I think I will stick with the iPod and the iTunes
ecosystem. Apps, so many to choose from.
0 Votes
+ -
you might want to read the specs again
CrashPad 14th Aug 2009
HD is on output only for video.
0 Votes
+ -
Does it have a 25hr battery?
T1Oracle 13th Aug 2009
My Creative Zen does...
0 Votes
+ -
Zedox 13th Aug 2009
To quote: http://store.microsoft.com/microsoft/Zune-HD-32/product/41941DC9#ctl19_tcla_a

"Battery: Music, up to 24 hours (wireless off); video, up to 4 hours2"

I'm sure it can go longer, that's probably just the best. I heard it can go 33 hours, it would make sense with the OLED and Tegra. So does that answer your question?
0 Votes
+ -
And to think the iPod Touch has a 36 hr battery...
Bruizer 14th Aug 2009
And without the power drinking (I mean ultra-low-power) Tegra.
0 Votes
+ -
The battery specs have been updated...
CrashPad 14th Aug 2009
nt
0 Votes
+ -
So far, only in a delusional blog at engadget
Bruizer 15th Aug 2009
After several days the spec is still 24hrs at the MS site:

http://store.microsoft.com/microsoft/Zune-HD-
32/product/41941DC9#ctl19_tcla_a

There is a "PDF" file from MS that updates the web page (what, is a
web page too hard to update in 3-4 days time???) that contradicts the
time. EXCEPT, the PDF is not from a MS server and there is no
indication it is real (yet). It may be or it may not be. The only
CONFIRMED data on the Zune battery life is the MS site above.

So the Zune HD is still at 24 Hours music and 4 hours of video. Far
from the 25 days some had been claiming or even the 7 days most
had assumed:

http://t03.us/2009/06/zune-hd-to-get-5-time-the-battery-life-
of-current-ipod-touch/

Too many MS fanboies out there.
0 Votes
+ -
Re: Should the Zune product line be EOL'ed
yourrealitybytes 13th Aug 2009
Answer: No.

Sadly they lack two things that customers have come to expect in their technology products that are priced at the higher end of the scale, innovation and excellence.
The Zune experience is severely lacking comparatively and that does not even brush upon the content buying infrastructure that MS created.

The more interesting question for me is:
Why did you word your headline the way you did?
You knew the answer yet you posed the question.
0 Votes
+ -
Email client? App Store? Why?
NonZealot Updated - 13th Aug 2009
Apple's "Insert Product Name" is better than Microsoft's "Insert Product Name" because Apple's "Insert Product Name" doesn't try to be everything to everybody.


Remember how that quote was thrown around a few years ago? Heck, it is still being thrown around today when convenient. Oh my how times have changed. Suddenly being the Swiss Army Knife of MP3 players (there's an app for that!!) is a "good" thing and devices that do one thing better than anyone else is a "bad" thing. The double standard is palpable.

The Zune HD, from all reports, looks to be a far better PMP than the iPod Touch which is a jack of all trades, master of none type of device. For people looking at getting a PMP, the Zune HD is unequivocally better than the iPod Touch.
0 Votes
+ -
iPod Touch can be as simple or as complex as one would like...
doctorSpoc 13th Aug 2009
if you just want a PMP then just erase all the
other apps and you have straight up PMP.. the
good thing is that you can add apps as you'd
like. you're not locked into what Apple or MS
tells you, you'd like. and you don't have to
pay for features/apps you're not interested in
you pay for them as you require as well.. this
is not the same as talking about welded in apps
and a one size fits all model as the case was
before.. apple has modeled the iPod Touch so
that you add as you need or want..
0 Votes
+ -
You clearly don't follow the criticisms of MS products
NonZealot 13th Aug 2009
The original Zune was too complicated to use because it had an FM radio and wireless.

Windows Mobile was too complicated to use because it had copy and paste (obviously this was before Apple copied it).

On and on, whenever any MS product had a feature that the Apple clone didn't, it meant that the MS product was too complicated to use and was a jack of all trades, master of none. It didn't matter that you didn't have to ever use that feature, its existence confused the easily befuddled Apple cultists.

I do have to ask though:
if you just want a PMP then just erase all the other apps

How would I uninstall the bundled browser in the iPod Touch? Oh snap!!! happy
0 Votes
+ -
you actually can through iTunes parental controls
doctorSpoc 13th Aug 2009
... doh!!
0 Votes
+ -
But are the bits still in the device?
NonZealot 13th Aug 2009
Removing the UI doesn't count if the bits are still on the device. DOH! happy
0 Votes
+ -
why? we are talking about ease of use...
doctorSpoc 13th Aug 2009
if i don't see, or have to deal with a component..
you don't have to deal with it.. PERIOD. why do i
care.. the device IS made less complex as far as
the user is confirmed.. who the cares if it's
there or not.. usabilitywise it's out of my way..
i don't know for fact that it is or isn't there
but seriously.. as a user why do i give a rats
a$$?
0 Votes
+ -
The bits confuse me
NonZealot 13th Aug 2009
Oh, those bits, those bits, they are so confusing a feature for me to comprehend! I just know they are there, ready at any second to jump out and present themselves in a way that is as sure to confuse me as bluetooth keyboard support confuses me on other devices.
0 Votes
+ -
Technically you're still locked in to what Apple tells you
MissingMatter 13th Aug 2009
They have an iron hold on the app store.
0 Votes
+ -
HAHAHAHA!!!!
i8thecat 15th Sep 2009
"Technically you're still locked in to what
Apple tells you... They have an iron hold on
the app store."

Oh Man!!! You are too funny... An "iron
hold".... Is that like a kung fu grip?

So apple has an "iron hold" on more than 75000
apps that I get to choose from? Wow... That's
kinda like telling me gravity has an "iron
hold" on the planet, I can only go anywhere I
want, but I am limited to the planet... unless
I'm you're an astronaut... in that case, you
better get a rio, zen, or a zune, cus there is
no air in space and no one can hear you scream.
0 Votes
+ -
Believe it or not, but...
rlorenz 13th Aug 2009
the iPod line is not a very good music player in general. They have the supreme advantage of being first on scene with a modern player and a good marketing department, and because of this (well-deserved) advantage, they have "trapped" people into the Apple iPod universe. I use the word "trapped" in quotes because, of course, people can leave; they just get used to one platform and are resistant to leave it.

I've used many PMP's, starting way back when with the Rio PMP500 (one of the first .mp3 players) and have used everything from an iPod to a Zune, and have listened in on some Creative Zen's. The iPod's acoustics are quite poor compared to their rivals. This is a market in which there is truly many viable alternatives to the iPod, but because of their presence, people aren't inclined to try out alternatives. I've converted a few people to other platforms like the Zune and the Zen, but most people either cannot discern the differences or do not want to lose the popularity factor of using an iPod.

Really, they dominate the PMP market because they got there first and showed up with a decent player and an exclusivity component (the white earphones, etc.). They deserve their spot on top for their accomplishments, but in terms of playback, they suck.
0 Votes
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ahh... the acoustic argument is BS.. change the ear buds...
doctorSpoc 14th Aug 2009
and the whole nature of the sound from the device changes... it's just like
with a home stereo... almost all of the distortion and coloration is
introduced by the speakers and looking at the components is laughable...
yes apple ear buds that you get with the device do suck REALLY bad.
want to improve the quality of he sound of an iPod... get a nice set of
head phones or ear buds... the new after market Apple in-ear ones are
actually quite good for the price but you need to choose one that suite
your tastes..

again the sound quality of the device thing is totally bogus and
laughable... change out the ear buds...
0 Votes
+ -
iPod Sound Quality
MissingMatter 14th Aug 2009
Personally my ears aren't nuanced enough to tell the difference between players, but I have never heard anyone say the iPod has good sound quality compared to its competitors, regardless of headphones. However, I have heard the converse, that many iPod competitors have superior sound quality given equal headphones.
0 Votes
+ -
MS Zealots are hysterical...
i8thecat 15th Sep 2009
It's funny how they don't have any clue about
the iPhone and that it always was a mobile
computer running OS X... I still have my first
gen iPhone and it works perfectly. I bought
mine because I knew what it was and that the
best was yet to come. But at the time I bought
it, it had and still has the best user
experience of any device.

It's also funny how the MS Apologist like to
say that Winblows phones had apps for years
before the iPhone and that the iPhone was 5
generations behind... Yet the iPhone has more
apps than all others combined... Over 70
thousand and growing...

If you want to talk about being generations
behind... How bout Windows Mobile and even the
"new" updated Zune HD...

"What?s ?new? in the release of the Zune HD is
a different version of the mobile IE browser,
based not upon the creaky IE 4 engine from 1997
(still delivered in today?s Windows Mobile
devices), but a mobile version of IE 6, which
dates back to 2001. That leaves the Zune HD?s
browser nearly a decade behind the modern
WebKit browsers used in the iPhone, Palm Pre,
Android, and modern BlackBerry phones."

If you care to read it all Zealot...

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/09/14/from-
oled-to-tegra-five-myths-of-the-zune-hd/

There is a reason people call it Winblows. And
there is a reason the iPhone is dominating the
market... People want it. People like it.
People enjoy it. You claim Apple doesn't give
choices, but yet they give people more than 70
thousand choices. How many choices does your
_________ (fill in the blank with lame device
name) give you?

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