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Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Don't believe the sensationalist headlines - Kindle unlikely to be kicked out of iTunes

By | February 1, 2011, 3:44am PST

Summary: The news that Sony’s Reader ebook app has been rejected from Apple’s App Store has caused a tsunami of sensationalist speculation predicting that Amazon’s Kindle app is living on borrowed time and is destined to be dumped.

[UPDATE: Apple issues a statement, causes more confusion.]

The news that Sony’s Reader ebook app has been rejected from Apple’s App Store has caused a tsunami of sensationalist speculation predicting that Amazon’s Kindle app is living on borrowed time and is destined to be dumped.

Not so fast!

Let’s look at the facts before jumping to conclusions. We’ll begin by looking at what Sony actually said.

Steve Haber, president of Sony’s digital reading division is mentioned in a piece in the NYT, but it’s vague and not a direct quote:

Apple told Sony that from now on, all in-app purchases would have to go through Apple, said Steve Haber, president of Sony’s digital reading division.

Like I said it’s vague, but cling on to that phrase “in-app purchases” for a moment.

Next, on Sony’s Reader website, the company had this to say:

We would like to update everyone on the status of our Reader™ for iPhone® mobile application. We created an app that we’re very excited about, which includes all the features you’ve come to expect from a mobile reading application – including access to your existing collection, synching with your Reader Daily Edition™ and purchasing new content as is possible on other mobile platforms.

Unfortunately, with little notice, Apple changed the way it enforces its rules and this will prevent the current version of the Reader™ for iPhone® from being available in the app store. We opened a dialog with Apple to see if we can come up with an equitable resolution but reached an impasse at this time. We’re exploring other avenues to bring the Reader experience to Apple mobile devices. We know that many of you are eagerly awaiting the application and we appreciate your continued patience.

The bit that stood out to me was this part:

“Apple changed the way it enforces its rules and this will prevent the current version of the Reader™ for iPhone® from being available in the app store.”

This is a curious statement. It implies that Sony was doing something that was previously considered OK, but now not. No specifics to go on here, but saying that Apple has changed the way it is enforcing a particular rule doesn’t automatically mean that all apps that are similar to Sony’s Reader … say Amazon’s Kindle app … all fall under this blanket ban.

There’s a key difference between Sony’s Reader app and Amazon’s Kindle app that seems to have escaped the attention of many tech pundits. Unlike the Kindle app, which uses the web browser to redirect users to the Amazon website to make purchases, Reader had greater built-in access to Sony’s ebook store. While this definitely streamlines the purchasing/downloading/archiving process dramatically, but it also means that, in the strictest sense, that these purchases are “in-app purchases,” meaning that Apple is entitled to a cut. Amazon’s purchases on the other hand happen outside the app (you can buy them on the desktop or Kindle device too). Sony’s mechanism isn’t an “in app purchase” in the sense of dopwnloading a new game level, but the integration of the app to the Reader store seems greater than for the Kindle app. By comparison, the Kindle app is very basic … you have access to downloaded books, and an archive list. That’s it. It’s basic for a reason … Apple’s rules force it to be like that.

Sony tried to play fast and loose with the idea of ‘in app purchases’ and got burned by a well-established Apple rule. Amazon’s Kindle app on the other hand plays by the rules, making sure that all purchasing happens outside of the app.

Pretty simple really.

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Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology.

Disclosure

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

All opinions expressed on Hardware 2.0 are those of Adrian Kingsley-Hughes. Every effort is made to ensure that the information posted is accurate. If you have any comments, queries or corrections, please contact Adrian via the email link here. Any possible conflicts of interest will be posted below. [Updated: February 23, 2010] - Adrian Kingsley-Hughes has no business relationships, affiliations, investments, or other actual/potential conflicts of interest relating to the content posted so far on this blog.

Biography

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology -- whether that be by learning to program, building a PC from a pile of parts, or helping them get the most from their new MP3 player or digital camera.

Adrian has authored/co-authored technical books on a variety of topics, ranging from programming to building and maintaining PCs. His most recent books include "Build the Ultimate Custom PC", "Beginning Programming" and "The PC Doctor's Fix It Yourself Guide". He has also written training manuals that have been used by a number of Fortune 500 companies.

Adrian also runs a popular blog under the name The PC Doctor, where he covers a range of computer-related topics -- from security to repairing and upgrading.

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RE: Don't believe the sensationalist headlines - Kindle unlikely to be kicked out of iTunes
search & destroy 5th Feb 2011
It's been clear for a while, but this makes it abundantly clear to anyone with a brain. Buying Apple products is STUPID. I own two iPhones. I know. Thankfully it was easy to kick the habit. For some it seems harder than Heroin though.

Two phones? Anyone with a brain?

Well if that's the case, then it sounds like you don't have one.

I'm not giving up my iPad over something as inconsequential as this. F-you.
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Pretty simple really.
Cylon Centurion Updated - 1st Feb 2011
Yeah - Don't buy Apple devices. Enjoy the freedoms of others out there.

Apple changes the app store rules more than Bart Simpson changed his underwear. I'm almost afraid of buying an iPhone, in part because of this. Not that I use many apps to begin with, how long would it be before a killer app gets the hammer?

"Desktop" widgets - BANNED.
Networking tools - BANNED.
VLC Player - BANNED.
Emulators - BANNED.
Flash - BANNED.
Sexual Material - BANNED.

Which category of apps will Apple go on the war path against next?
@Cylon Centurion 0005
Anything that they sell, read: movies, books, music
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So what
LTV10 Updated - 1st Feb 2011
Except for VLC Player, the rest is garbage.

No loss, there...
@LTV10
Except for the fact that it isn't garbage. Just because you don't use Networking tools doesn't mean nobody does.
@LTV10
I re-read the list just to double check.
It's filled with things I use and love. What are you doing, angry birds 24/7?

Life may be good inside the walled garden, but the rest of us prefer to consume content outside the vacuum of sterility on the iJobs
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and Apple didn't ban VLC.. VLC did..
doctorSpoc Updated - 1st Feb 2011
@LTV10 the original license for the code didn't permit any more license restrictions be put on the code.. and this is a prerequisite for inclusion in the app store so a complaint was files and Apple complied.. Apple was actually forced to pull the app.. they didn't pull it or ban it.. they were forced to pull it..
Life may be good inside the walled garden, but the rest of us prefer to consume content outside the vacuum of sterility on the iJobs

@shrug & @Droid101
Then don't enter the garden! DOH!

None of this is a surprise, people. If you can't deal with it, then stay away. Apple isn't taking any money out of your pockets. You have other easily accessible choices out there.

And yes, I still consider the rest garbage. Especially on a phone.

Apple was actually forced to pull the app.. they didn't pull it or ban it.. they were forced to pull it..

@doctorSpoc - Thank you for the correction. Be sure to tell the two M$ whiners above, that.
@LTV10 No books from Amazon either. It is now official, Apple IS going after Amazon. It wasn't sensationalist.

It's been clear for a while, but this makes it abundantly clear to anyone with a brain. Buying Apple products is STUPID. I own two iPhones. I know. Thankfully it was easy to kick the habit. For some it seems harder than Heroin though.
It's been clear for a while, but this makes it abundantly clear to anyone with a brain. Buying Apple products is STUPID. I own two iPhones. I know. Thankfully it was easy to kick the habit. For some it seems harder than Heroin though.

Two phones? Anyone with a brain?

Well if that's the case, then it sounds like you don't have one.

I'm not giving up my iPad over something as inconsequential as this. F-you.
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Welcome to Egypt.
LarsDennert 1st Feb 2011
@Cylon Centurion 0005 Please visit our version of the web only.
@Cylon Centurion 0005

I agree. I'm waiting for the day they require that you only use your iDevice while wearing at least one item of Apple logo clothing, available only in the iTunes store.
@DaveN_MVP I'm ready for that, I already have my Apple t-shirt! wink
While I think (and hope) you are correct in your interpretation, there is also this, which I found in numerous articles:

"The company has told some applications developers, including Sony, that they can no longer sell content, like e-books, within their apps, or let customers have access to purchases they have made outside the App Store."

The key phrase being "or let customers have access to purchases they have made outside the App Store." That certainly would include the Kindle app. Time will tell if they will also disallow Kindle books.
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Time for a federal investigation
archangel9999 1st Feb 2011
@redbirdpat Sounds like monopolistic restraint of trade

Just because an app is running on an iPhone, Apple expects a cut of anything purchased through the app? Sounds illegal.

And of course since you can't get an app on your phone except through Apple's store it's exercising explicit monopoly control.
@archangel9999

Just because I bought something for my Kindle from Amazon, Amazon expects a cut? Sounds illegal.
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@archangel9999 : People have a choice: Don't buy an iPhone or iPad. Buy an Android device instead.

As much as I hate to admit it, if you buy their hardware, they have every right to say in the purchase contract that they can control that hardware anyway they want. If the Sheeple line up and toss money in Apple's pockets in a slathering clamor to have themselves controlled, then they get what they deserve.

Of course, if the iPhone and the iPad had fallen flat, then there wouldn't be all the neat Android devices around either, so I guess we need the Sheeple for something after all.

Either Apple will reverse their course and bow to customer pressure (if the customers actually have the spine to stand up for themselves and yell) or they won't and people will brand them as dictators and bail like rats off a sinking ship.

This is why I've been waiting for the tablet market to put out some decent non-apple devices before buying one.
@msalzberg

I'm actually impressed how completely you missed the point. Nice job there.

In this case, people are buying something from Sony, not Apple. Why should Apple get a cut of the sale? Only Sony should get a cut of the purchase. If Apple's made rules contrary to that, those rules are asinine.

I'm not sure if Amazon could be blocked from the iPad for this reason, but I think it would be fairly psychotic for Apple to do so. Some people seem to like reading on the iPad. If Apple limited people to just using iBooks for book purchases, the iPad would be significantly less attractive.
What's the point?
Why would it matter to me as a user if I buy a book from inside an app or from inside a browser?
And then to read Adrian analyze the decision as if it actually made sense...

... brain hurts!
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Money.
John Zern 1st Feb 2011
@Theli
Outside the App Store, Apples gets $0, yet inside the App Store Apple gets 30%.
Would prices rise to compensate for the lost 30% to Amazon?
@Theli you click on the item, enter you iTunes password.. done..

for outside purchases like the ones done on Kindle or nook apps.. you click the item, it redirects you to the webpage, you need to enter your username, password, credit card number, then it downloads.. apple's in-app purchase is more streamlined and user friendly.. and if you're dealing with a smaller company you know that apple has vetted the apps so you know you're not going to get scammed..
@doctorSpoc
No you don't. You can set up 1 click and it's the same. Amazon is at least as efficient as apple is.
@doctorSpoc -- Of course it is easier to use Apple's in-app purchase mechanism is easier. Apple doesn't allow any other mechanisms to be easy. If you can't beat them, make it harder for people to buy from them. This is blatant monoply practices. I was leaning towards buying an iPad this year because I would like a tablet and I haven't been impressed with any of the Android tablets so far, but this article has changed that view point. I don't want to buy something that restricts access to the things I use because it offers the same thing and is greedy.
@hoaxoner if you are starting from an iOS app it HAS to be a least one more step..

you click the item from within the app and get redirected to the webstore.. that's one extra step..

but i agree, for a company like Amazon.. who the hell cares.. and for Sony too it should not be a big deal.. but for small outfits having people purchase through their iTunes accounts it a huge plus and worth the cost... streamlined process and you get the legitimacy of going through your iTunes account.. many user are reluctant to enter their credit card info into some strange 3rd party site.. but if you go through apple they are WAY more likely to go through with it..
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who is being greedy here.. apple or sony?
doctorSpoc Updated - 1st Feb 2011
@DustinU.. the Sony App is free.. apple gets no money from the sale of the app.. sony sells the book through their own system so apple gets no money from the sale of the book.. Sony does have to buy a dev license.. $99

so Sony gets to sell through apple marketplace, with 160+ million potential buyers and apple get $99 a year out of it.. nothing basically.. all that they ask is that like Amazon, B&A.. just do you purchases by redirecting to your sites.. 1 or 2 more steps basically.. but Sony says no to that.. are they mental?? who is really being greedy here.. Apple or Sony?

apple has something like 20% of the smartphone market.. please explain to us all how that represents a monopoly?
@doctorSpoc -- I didn't say that Apple has a monopoly on the smart phone market. I said their practice of not allowing products to compete with their own is a monopoly practice. They can't make their bookstore as popular any other online bookstore so they make it so you can't use those products from their phone. Apple is the one being greedy wanting 30% of the sale price. Bookstores can't give Apple 30% and still have enough to clear a profit. That gives Apple the edge in the price wars over online books.
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@doctorSpoc

You say it has to be one more step if you go out of the app into the browser.

Technically you could have the app send some session data to the server, then do a redirect from the app to Safari passing a token in the URL to allow the server to trigger the 'one-click' purchase.

So you could still have one-click out of app purchase. But it's still a pain to return to the app afterwards.

Also there's a distinction in my mind between two types of in-app purchase. One is Apple's one where they bill the credit card of the iTunes user and transfer the money to your account - in this case it's pretty easy to justify why Apple takes a cut.

The second type of 'in-app' purchase is when you pass payment authorisation data from your app to your server and then download new content for the app.

This second type of 'in-app' purchase is where I think all the debate is.....

At the end of the day, it's only a phone (or a tablet) - it's not something important (like the world's smallest open source violin)....
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@DustinU ..you must just do the final transaction outside of the app..

and i think you mean anti-competitive.. what is a "monoply practice" and how can a non-monopoly exert "monoply practices".. whatever that is..

people just don't seem to understand how this works.. there is nothing illegal, immoral, wrong etc about being a monopoly.. it just that when you are a monopoly you have special rules for you so you don't styfle innovation and competition e.g. you can't use your monopoly in one area to stifle innovation and competition in another are like MS was convicted of with the browser market and server market.. but you really need to be a monopoly or those special rules don't apply to you.. you still can't do anti-competitive stuff like form a cartel with other companies to artificially raise prices of product etc, but if you sure as hell lock people out of your platform if you please.. if it makes business sense.. do Xbox games run on playStations or vise versa.. no.. do Schick razor blades fit into Gillette razors.. nope..
@doctorSpoc
Well, Apple still has to sell the hardware, which is what they do. So the 160 million+ potential buyers have already spent $400+ on the hardware.

There is another argument to be made, which is why Apple won't touch Amazon (most likely) is that how many people who are Amazon/B&N loyal customers will forgo buying the proprietary hardware (kindle, nook) because it is available for free on the iPad? Therefore, how much is Apple's demand increased by the partnerships with the retail giants? If it is significantly, perhaps they should not pay. Apple really needs to understand this distinction in the second decade of the 21st century as systems get more polished with respect to the real reason for Apple's success: iTunes. We shall see. Android is coming very strong.
@Theli
There are many books that Apple doesn't offer. I have already been there looking for 4 separate books and they weren't offered. Why not get it elsewhere? Anyway if Apple doesn't sell the title than it isn't really competition anyway.
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Ban them all!
james347 1st Feb 2011
And you little dog too!
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If the boot were on the other foot
The Star King 1st Feb 2011
Apple writes an iTunes app for the PSP. Millions of PSP owners can now buy music straight from Apple via iTunes, with Sony getting zero royalties. Would Sony allow this...?
According to a Sony PR rep quoted here, the experience is essentially the same as in the Kindle app. http://technologizer.com/2011/01/31/sony-reader-iphone/ That is contrary to what the writer of this post says.
@msanto00.. i bet they are running webkit within the app.. and that's why they say it's "essentially" the same.. someone else got in trouble for doing this as well... can't remember who.. this is not a new policy though..
@msanto00 It's not the same, really, at all. Look at it this way.

The Sony app had you purchase books, by browsing for titles, rendering payments inside the app, and delivery all within the app.

With Amazon Kindle app, as soon as you choose to browse for a book title you are immediately sent OUT of the app to a web browser. The shopping and the payment happened completely outside the app.

The Kindle app only serves to connect to the Amazon servers to check your account for what titles you have bought and have access to. None of the shopping nor transactions happen in-app.

That is a huge distinction.
Besides, the Kindle app is one of the most used apps on iPad, it's a better reader app than iBook. To ban the Kindle reader app would say, please soon to be former iPad user, you might prefer an Android pad.
@techgolem --- That is the issue I am looking at right now. I am looking to buy a tablet, but I haven't been impressed with any of the Android tablets. I am very interested in the iPad2 and seeing what it offers, but if they ban the Kindle app that automatically disqualifies it as a choice. I have alot of books downloaded through Amazon and I want to access those through whatever tablet I buy.
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@DustinU.. Amazon and B&A follow Apple's longstanding policy.. Apple has NEVER allowed in app purchases unless they are done through apple's in-app purchase mechanism.. stating that Apple has somehow changed their policy is a straight up out and out lie.. Kindle and Nook apps shoot you out to Safari to purchase your books through their webpage.. this does not violate apple long held policy..

Sony was trying to be slick and do the book purchases in-app and they got busted and their app rejected.. Sony is simply spreading FUD.. my guess is that they are running webkit within their app.. this has already been tried by other and rejected.. this is nothing new.. either use apples in-app purchases or do you transactions in the browser.. NOTHING has changed.. again, this is Sony spreading FUD..
@doctorspoc
It may very well be FUD from Sony. However, it's not some small blogger making a comment on a tech website. It is one of the largest electronics manufacturer and OEM on the planet. The PR machine from Sony is huge and can put a PR dent in Apple. Apple had better respond and fast.
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re choosing what to read on
toviz@... Updated - 1st Feb 2011
@DustinU a side issue but relevant.

As an e-ink e-book user I find the iPad to be a woeful replacement with its high gloss screen for reading books, esp in sunlight. Its very good for magazines though which were designed to be on a glossy surface.

You are better off with an proper e-ink reader such as the sony or kindle etc if you read books mostly, (much better for your eyes too).
amongst other things the iPad is just too heavy to hold in your hand for any length of time and will need charging much more often.

Of course if you can afford it having several devices is the ideal, but at the end of the day, I take my 6" e-ink reader, not the iPad for reading when I'm traveling. 4wks without charging is just another reason where a proper reader is better.

As far as the coming Android tablets as I would expect there will be some with less glossy screens etc, which is something I don't see the ipad changing.

Back on subject, I would agree with other comments that it would be bad for apple if the kindle app somehow failed to meet "rules" There would be more reason for people to become ex-iPad owners,.
I will test the Kindle vs. Reader on Android to see what the differences are in terms of functionality. Yes, I know it isn't perfect, but it's a start.

edit: after playing with the Reader app, it does kick you to a browser to make purchases, at least in Android. Not sure what that means exactly, but it's possible to assume that the functionality is similar.
@hoaxoner It really is quite different. On iPad, the Kindle app kicks you out of the app entirely as soon as you select to shop for books. All purchases are done completely outside the app. The kindle app ONLY connects to the amazon servers to access your amazon account and determine what titles you have paid for, and lets you view them.

But the Sony app is designed to function as the shopping environment, the payment processing, AND the reader.

No other app is allowed to do this, and the issue has come up before. Any app that wants in-app purchases are required to use the app store for processing.

It's a fundamental difference, and nothing new. It just makes for salacious headlines, hence all the tabloid-style headlines.
"Sony tried to play fast and loose with the idea of ?in app purchases? and got burned by a well-established Apple rule."

A well-established Apple rule that degrades the user experience in this case by forcing the user to go open a web browser in order to make a purchase. Aren't all these Apple App rules supposed to insure a great user experience?
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experience because Sony doesn't want to pay Apple to use the in-app purchasing feature.

So, Sony is stingy and yet it's Apple's fault. I see.
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@jporter1000 If Sony's books are hosted on Apple's server, Apple has to pay costs for data transfer and storage. That costs money for Apple so it's right that Sony should pay something (maybe not 30% though).

But if Sony follows Amazon's model, they can host the books on their own server and the Sony iPhone app is just a reader. Then Sony pays for bandwidth/storage and doesn't have to pay Apple.
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E-Reader.
Shrug 1st Feb 2011
My e-reader broke last week.. This has basically sealed the deal that I'll be waiting for Honeycomb.
I think Apple is trying the waters by killing the Sony Reader. If it goes unpunished they will try to extort the bigger players Amazon and B&N.
@FabioCLima I think you need to get different meds. Apple isn?t testing any waters, they are enforcing a policy. This is not a new policy, and Sony made an error. The app was rejected just like others have, for not complying with established policy.
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It is a new policy
rlawler Updated - 1st Feb 2011
@Rick_K No. It is a new policy: "We are now requiring that if an app offers customers the ability to purchase books outside of the app, that the same option is also available to customers from within the app with in-app purchase." - Apple spokesperson Trudy Muller

In-App-Purchases are subject to a whole litany of different requirements than external purchases. For example, they may only be used in the app. They must be anonymous. An app is limited to three thousand different items. Each item must be approved by Apple. No item may be what Apple considers to be offensive. etc.
@Rick_K you are quite right!

Also this can be seen as a potential legal issue.

Imagine all the good-app writers who have been playig by the rules and did in-app purchases the CORRECT way--through the app store--all started doing this on the sly by creating in-ap payments that go though their own services. And some mistreated customers by either delivering junk or not delivering what they promised.

In that case, Apple could be liable as they are a partner of the app developer since apple hosts the apps and and receive a portion of the initial sale, and would be facilitating fraud.

By keeping the shopping experience AND THE TRANSACTION OUTSIDE the app and in a browser window on the web, Apple is not liable for any shady dealings.
@rlawler I don't think that's right--an issue with semantics is getting in the way.

When they say "out of app purchases" they (Apple and spokesperson Trudy Muller) aren't referring to the Amazon model of purchasing something at amazon that is made available through the app (an interface to Amazon's servers, no more and no less).

They are instead referring to the app making purchases, while still inside the app, but using out-of-app-STORE purchases. This is a key difference. The app, if it is making purchases anywhere, must allow for the user to make purchases using the iTunes account of the user. This is entirely different to Kindle App, which as soon as you request to shop leaves the app completely and therefore doesn't make ANY in or out of app [STORE] purchases at all.

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