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Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Google: We 'didn't fall for' Microsoft's patent trap

By | August 4, 2011, 2:27pm PDT

Summary: According to David Drummond, Senior Vice President and Chief Legal Officer for Google, ‘if you think about it, it’s obvious why we turned down Microsoft’s offer’.

Google has clarified why it didn’t enter into a joint patent deal with Microsoft, claiming that it ‘didn’t fall for’ a patent trap that Microsoft had created for it.

David Drummond, Senior Vice President and Chief Legal Officer for Google updated an earlier blog post to add some detail. In this update Drummond says that Microsoft is trying to ‘divert attention’ from the bigger issue with the assertion that Microsoft had asked Google if it wanted to enter a joint big for the Novell patent acquisition deal.

So why did Google turn down the offer? According to Drummond ‘if you think about it, it’s obvious why [Google] turned down Microsoft’s offer’ …

‘Microsoft’s objective has been to keep from Google and Android device-makers any patents that might be used to defend against their attacks. A joint acquisition of the Novell patents that gave all parties a license would have eliminated any protection these patents could offer to Android against attacks from Microsoft and its bidding partners. Making sure that we would be unable to assert these patents to defend Android - and having us pay for the privilege - must have seemed like an ingenious strategy to them. We didn’t fall for it.’

I must admit that I’ve lost the point that Google is trying to make here. To me it’s coming across like ‘patents are bad when they’re used against us, except when they’re our patents and we can use them to defend our IP.’

What do you think? Are you a Google supporter, or a Microsoft supporter?

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Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology.

Disclosure

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

All opinions expressed on Hardware 2.0 are those of Adrian Kingsley-Hughes. Every effort is made to ensure that the information posted is accurate. If you have any comments, queries or corrections, please contact Adrian via the email link here. Any possible conflicts of interest will be posted below. [Updated: February 23, 2010] - Adrian Kingsley-Hughes has no business relationships, affiliations, investments, or other actual/potential conflicts of interest relating to the content posted so far on this blog.

Biography

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology -- whether that be by learning to program, building a PC from a pile of parts, or helping them get the most from their new MP3 player or digital camera.

Adrian has authored/co-authored technical books on a variety of topics, ranging from programming to building and maintaining PCs. His most recent books include "Build the Ultimate Custom PC", "Beginning Programming" and "The PC Doctor's Fix It Yourself Guide". He has also written training manuals that have been used by a number of Fortune 500 companies.

Adrian also runs a popular blog under the name The PC Doctor, where he covers a range of computer-related topics -- from security to repairing and upgrading.

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RE: Google: We 'didn't fall for' Microsoft's patent trap
Krzysztof Wozniak 11th Aug
Google strategy - take something for free and sell it for money (big money),
Msft strategy - buy something for money and sell it for bigger money,
Apple strategy - buy something for small money and sell it to some selected people for big money,
For me Msft strategy is most classical but least profitable I'm afraid.
Update: Microsoft?s Frank Shaw has responded via Twitter:

?Hello again David Drummond. This is going to take a few tweets, so here we go. Let?s look at what Google does not dispute in their reply.

We offered Google the opportunity to bid with us to buy the Novell patents; they said no.
Why? BECAUSE they wanted to buy something that they could use to assert against someone else.
SO partnering with others & reducing patent liability across industry is not something they wanted to help do?
Wow, I didn't know their translator is this smart. Add this service to Obama's next prompter please.
away their little pity party. And time for Larry to at least act the part of CEO and remind DD that when you're in a hole the first thing you do is stop digging. He's projecting a very poor light on google executive corp intellect and at the same time showing that same think their audience to be idiots that would buy this complete nonsense bs. Hard to say which is worse but either on it's own is reason enough for muzzle and demotion.
Google has sued

Auction Experts International for click-fraud in 2004
Froogles.com for trademark infringement in 2005
Microsoft for setting the default in IE7 to MSN Search in 2006
Leo Stoller for falsely claiming trademark rights for the purpose of harassing and attempting to extort money out of legitimate commercial actors, both large and small in 2007
Polish poets for using the domain "gmailpl" in 2007
Scammers and spammers for scams and spam in 2009
Erich Specht over the use of the "Android" Trademark in 2009
The US department of the interior for not considering Google apps in 2010
Rogue pharmacies for illegal drug ads in 2010


I am shocked at how little Google has sued. I'm also shocked that they have never sued to stifle innovation or competition.
@vivianvein That isn't at all what he was saying... They're looking for leverage to cancel out the royalties that MS and others are charging... These Patents didn't do anything to help them in that position and the Novell Patents are most likely short lived.

Now why didn't they invite Google into the Nortel Patent bid? That requires a deeper look.
@Peter Perry : erm ... you CAN read, right?

"Now why didn't they invite Google into the Nortel Patent bid" ... Microsoft DID invite Google to join the Nortel patent bid, but Google said no. That's the whole point of the post you're commenting to.

By NOT joining the bid, Google have now handed Microsoft et al. 1000 more patents to beat them over the head with. Nice move Google. Best break out the checkbook - I think you may be needing it soon.
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Invite
hardrock2552 6th Aug
@Peter Perry If everyone is sharing the patent pie, Why didn't Microsoft invite HTC, Samsung and other manufacturers in this patent war. Why did they just invite Google and not manufacturers. Afterall, Sony is still in the consortium.
Am growing weary of Google double-talk, whining.
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"I must admit that Ive lost the point that Google is trying to make here. To me its coming across like patents are bad when theyre used against us, except when theyre our patents and we can use them to defend our IP."

That's pretty much what I'm getting too. If Google is infringing on other's IP, then they need to fess up their mistake. They're Microsoft and Apple aren't doing this to break Android, they're doing it to protect their turf.
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IT makes sense
rhonin Updated - 4th Aug
@Cylon Centurion
The only reason Google wanted the patents was for litigative defense. By entering into a partnership they effectively gave up that right, so buying them with Microsoft makes no sense.
If you buy in partnership you cannot use them for defense from MS, Apple or Oracle
If you don't buy them you cannot use them for defense from MS, Apple, or Oracle

In that case why buy them unless you can buy them in entirety?


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It makes NO sense
reklissrick 4th Aug
@rhonin
If they wanted litigation protection, then being part of the consortium would have given them that. They can't be sued for shared patents.
Nooooo, they wanted amunition to fire back at EVERYONE ELSE! Google is trying to play a very bad game of "Nanny-Nanny, Boo-Boo".
@reklissrick no it wouldn't because it was a bargaining chip where they would offer free use of their newly acquired patents in exchange for free use of others patents. The Novel Patents were not that valuable anyway.
@peter perry
I can't believe that Google would take a stance like that. I can't think of a single "for profit" company that would willingly trade thousands of patents for free. If you truly believe Google would do this, then Google should give away their search algorithms for IP to be named at a later date. Even Google isn't that stupid.
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It makes sense.
hardrock2552 Updated - 6th Aug
@rhonin Agreed.
@Cylon Centurion No they're not... By buying these patents they're building their case against any would be competitors... Not having the patents means it was never their turf to begin with.
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Poorly worded response
Cylon Centurion 4th Aug
@Peter Perry

I know they don't have the patents, I was actually referring to Microsoft and Apple defending their IP. I guess I need to go back and re-word my response.
Look at who is suing who. Microsoft is saying that they wanted to buy the patents to protect the industry against patent trolling. But Microsoft at the same time sues HTC, Samsung, etc for using Android.

The patents in a Microsoft/Apple consorium do nothing to solve the problem of Microsoft and Apple trying to sue Android out of existence since they cannot win through free competition. That's why the patents are only valuable with a Linux/Android consortium because patent battles are like nuclear negotiations, you have to have enough nukes to stop the other side through MAD.
@nategator Microsoft's sueing of HTC, Samsung, etc. has to do with previously owned patents against Linux. Microsoft was giving Google a chance to join the patent purchasing group on another set of patents that likely cover a lot of Android items. Rather than buy into the group, they failed to bid high enough to get those patents, so now they'll likely need to purchase licensing from the consortium of patent buyers. Google's mistake is amplified by them now whining about the whole thing.
@grayknight Are you serious? Did you not read what was written about the Nortel Patents? Google bid 900,000,000 for Patents valued at 1,000,000,000 which means the others effectively bid the value up 450%... This isn't the slightest bit shady to you?

You weren't part of any Ponzi Scheme's lately were you?
@grayknight
I do notice that many people place items for sale onto eBay, in the hopes that someone will bid higher then what the seller believes the items are worth.

If that was not the case, then a seller could go to Craig's List and just advertise the item for a price he is willing to part with it for.

Whay should it be different with patents? The group appears to believe the patents are worth what they paid, otherwise they would not have made that offer.
@Peter Perry... Google stopped bidding at $4 billion not $900,000.. so Google values the patents at $4 billion and the consortium thought they were worth 4.5 billion not that different... 900 mil was just the opening bid.. it's meaningless.. we just know they are at least worth that or the seller would not have allowed the bidding to continue..
@nategator

Apple can't "win" through innovation?

Based on revenue and profit Apple are the biggest winners on earth in PC's, smartphone's and tablets.
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Message has been deleted.
iPad-awan Updated - 7th Aug
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Read between the lines
facebook@... 4th Aug
"We wanted to buy the patents to defend ourselves against other patents which we are clearly infringing upon"
@facebook@... If they're infringing then how come only Oracle has filed any type of claim against them?

Apple and MS are attacking smaller partners with less money and not going after Google Directly.
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....Or
facebook@... 4th Aug
@Peter Perry Google is using its advertising monopoly to artificially deflate the cost of Android and unfairly gain entry to other markets. Nothing an antitrust suit won't fix.
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Smaller companies with less money?
Mister Spock 4th Aug
@Peter Perry
I did not realize that companies like HTC and General Dynamics were considered small companies.

I did notice that General Dynamics has revenues of 31 billion, with a 65 billion dollar backlog.

Not bad for a small company.
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What damages could they get from Google?
doctorSpoc Updated - 4th Aug
@Peter Perry They can get WAY more money an leverage by going after the individual companies.. and as well scare them all into licensing deals
@facebook@...

+
Ignorance is Strength. War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Don't Be Evil. Closed is Open. And now, Offensive Patent Strategy is Defensive Patent Strategy.

I love and use many Google products, but they're really making me ill feeding us this horse-****. They need to just man up and fight without all this corporate whining. I mean, boo effing hoo. They bid the price on the Nortel patents up to $3.14 Billion, and now they're butthurt that the price went to 4.5 Billion?
>>I must admit that I?ve lost the point that Google is trying to make here. To me it?s coming across like ?patents are bad when they?re used against us, except when they?re our patents and we can use them to defend our IP.?

+1000. AKH, good post.
I agree. I am at a complete loss on why Google is saying anything now, they just look like whiners and their mistake is amplified by talking about it.
"We didn?t fall for it."

Man those guys at Google are just so smart.

While I can't fault the logic in why they didn't bid, it was Google--not Microsoft--that brought up the Novell patents in a public forum. If Drummond knew about the offer then it was foolish to reference the CPTN group in the blog.

As it stands now, this is a total loss for Google.
@Rich Miles
Bull...almost all of these patents are hardware, which Google does not manufacture. The few software patents that are software, and those are extremely questionable at best. There is no reason to spend that kind of money for useless [patents except for protection in a patent war. When the costs got too high, Google smartly exited.
I don't agree with the bullsh*t Microsoft is spewing. Of course Google wanted the patents for themselves. THEY'RE NOT THE PATENT TROLLS. MICROSOFT AND APPLE ARE. Why else do you think the DOJ are going to investigate Apple and Microsoft. Because they're trolling across the industry. They can't compete so they go with the motto, "If you can't beat 'em, SUE 'EM"! Too bad the Microsoft and Apple fanboys can't see past Ballmers b*lls and Job's A**.
@DigitalJedi01 This is absolutely true! They're both afraid of Android and they know it is only a matter of time before they Android Army completely owns the smartphone market.

Sure, Apple might have the most popular handset but that means nothing when Android is on 5x as many Handsets world wide with an ever widening margin.
@Peter Perry

...and over half the revenue.

(You forgot that bit about Apple's smartphones.)

"SHOW ME THE MONEY!" - Jerry McGuire.
@Peter Perry
in telling his superiors not to worry, the patents where Google's?

Google is worried that Android might soon be in trouble, as it has not done too well on tablets, and Windows 8 could be the OS to take the lead, as it will be running on ARM, something google likely thought would never happen.

I see some trouble for Android come 2012.
plain
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I find it amazing he's talking about how they couldn't defend handset makers if all these people had a license. I'm not sure how he expects that to make much sense. If everyone part of this consortium has access to these patents than everyone is protected. Seems like a win for everyone. Google wanted the patents so they could go after everyone else.
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Behind Closed Doors
facebook@... 4th Aug
I can hear Sergey Brin saying to David Drummond "Tomorrow we come up with new plan to catch moose and squirrel."
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Re: Behind Closed Doors
reklissrick 4th Aug
@facebook@...
Put a monocle on Larry Page and he could pull off a great "Fearless Leader"!
If you know anything about the world of Intellectual Property (patents), which is a highly legalized art, then you would know that it was a trap. Innovation would be siphoned away from such a consortium. Innovation that would threaten the markets the big boys play in. If you know nothing about the art of patent litigation then please stfu and stop spouting off like you do. Statements like "Google is whining", and "Google had a chance", are idiotic in this context. The legaleze of patents goes beyond anything to do with fairness and free market---like everything else that is upside down these days.
@Tokamak123 You don't get it man... Most of these people are supporting Apple or MS completely blind and don't realize this will eventually remove their choice.
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Amateurs and professionals
facebook@... 4th Aug
@Tokamak123 I do not know exactly what your point is. You are trying to use the logical fallacy of "Appeal to Authority". Google is right because Google knows more.

Amateurs built the ark. Professionals built the Titanic.
@Tokamak123
Oh, we got it. Since Google didn't win, you are upset, if Google had won and pulled Apple and others, you would be happy. Please you first STFU.
So why are Google buying patents off IBM and why did they bid Pi for Nortel?

Sour grapes.
Google: the crybaby of the tech world.

It's either their way or they don't play.
Welcome to the free market where it is "I'd better screw you before you screw me".
Google did the right thing. Microsoft is trying to kill Android with lawsuits. Actually basically everyone not in the Android party is trying to kill Android. So anything that defends it is good.
It's really quite simple: Big businesses are using patents as ammunition in a war that has gotten out of hand.

Which was never the original intent of patents.
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Google strategy - take something for free and sell it for money (big money),
Msft strategy - buy something for money and sell it for bigger money,
Apple strategy - buy something for small money and sell it to some selected people for big money,
For me Msft strategy is most classical but least profitable I'm afraid.

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