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Topic: Microsoft

Microsoft goes on a Christmas Xbox Live banning spree - Unmodded Xboxes caught in crossfire

Summary: If my email inbox is anything to go by, Microsoft has once again gone on a Christmas Xbox Live banning spree, and once again innocent users are caught up in the crossfire.

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

By for Hardware 2.0 |

If my email inbox is anything to go by, Microsoft has once again gone on a Christmas Xbox Live banning spree, and once again innocent users are caught up in the crossfire.

Here's the deal - if you mod your Xbox then Microsoft reserves the right to ban your Xbox from ever connecting to the Xbox Live online service.  This isn't the first time that Microsoft has taken this action, and Microsoft is well within its rights to do this (if you have any doubts, read the terms and conditions).  Problem is, each time Microsoft takes this action, I hear from people who have been banned who claim that they have been banned despite running unmodded consoles.  And each time the story is the same - there's no one customers can turn to for help.

This time is no different. 

Now, I have no way to independently verify that the users who have approached me are actually running unmodded consoles, but given that I know that Microsoft's track record in identifying non-genuine Windows operating systems isn't 100% accurate, I'm going to assume that the same is true for identifying modded Xbox consoles.  The problem isn't so much that Microsoft might be mis-identifying unmodded consoles are modded ones, it's the fact that there's no one that users can turn to for help to discuss the problem.  Several emails that I've received over the past few days make mention of tech support not being able to help "due to the nature of the ban" and that Microsoft is unable to take the consoles back under warranty to check whether they have been modded or not.  If fact, customers being told that the only way to escape the ban is to buy a new console. 

I'm not going to suggest that Microsoft should stop banning consoles that it suspects are modded.  I'm also not going to push for 100% accuracy in detecting modded consoles (after all, I'm a realist) but I am going to forcibly suggest that they company put in place a system by which people who claim that their consoles are not modified can somehow prove their innocence.  "Just buy a new console" isn't a good enough answer.

I've contacted Microsoft for a response and will post what I get here.

Thoughts?

Topic: Microsoft

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33 comments
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  • Remote Access

    Could they not design a way to remote access the Xbox to see if it is unmodded?
    d_nc
    Reply Vote

    • They Already did

      The box is guilty of being modified. You may not reconnect it ever. After all, they know you did it right?

      Just remember, guilt is a legal concept that has no relation to reality or responsibility for said actions.
      zclayton2
      Reply Vote

  • RE: Microsoft goes on a Christmas Xbox Live banning spree - Unmodded Xboxes caught in crossfire

    Remote access might be a problem due to the way alot of Xbox's are modded these days. Alot of the don't switch chips out anymore but just add a new one and can re-route the signal to it with a switch, which would trick anyone using remote access into thinking you are not running a modded Xbox.

    With the amount of xbox modding that goes on these days I would be surprised if as little as 5% of the complaints were genuine. I do feel bad for that 5% though. Microsoft should allow you to send them your Xbox to verify that it hasn't been modded. If it was they could just confinscate it, rebuild to original and resale it. Win/win situation in my opinion. I'm sure Microsoft could find a way around the legal hassle. The "I don't care" approach is probably the cheapest for them though. Sadly, if they blocked my access to Xbox live I would end up buying another one, but then I would definitely mod the one they blocked =)
    lenz0799
    Reply Vote

    • And then....?

      [i]Sadly, if they blocked my access to Xbox live I would end up buying another one, but then I would definitely mod the one they blocked =)[/i]

      And if they blocked the 2nd unmodded box? Buy a 3rd, mod the 2nd. And they block the 3rd? Buy a 4th, mod the 3rd? With customers like you, Microsloth will probably just set up an "Xbox of the month club", where they just send you a new one every month and debit your checking account. I wonder if they'll reward your loyalty with something like "Every 13th Xbox only 1/2 price." ;-)

      MGP2
      MGP2
      Reply Vote

  • RE: Microsoft goes on a Christmas Xbox Live banning spree - Unmodded Xboxes caught in crossfire

    This is another reason that i think the PS3 may come out ahead in the near future. A laptop hard drive that is easily upgraded (non-propietary) and support for Linux all the while not voiding the warranty. Seems the smart way to do it to me. I hear way too many horror stories dealing with the 360 that i am waiting. Now if only the PS3 had more games....
    supra5mge
    Reply Vote

  • I see nothing wrong...

    If Microsoft says you are guilty, THEN YOU ARE GUILTY. Why should Microsoft have to spend precious money and time to help out consumers who may or may not have a "modded" XBOX. My rep showed me the algorithms used by XBOX live to determine the state of the console, and the code is elegant and refined. Recommending the user to go out and by a new console is the path of least resistance for the customer.
    Mike Cox
    Reply Vote

    • Path of least resistance?

      Path of least resistance?

      This is one of the funnies things I?ve ever read.
      I?m sure that if I was arrested the path of least resistance would be to just go to jail regardless of whether or not I was innocent, right? What if I was shot, stabbed, or injured? I?d be a lot less trouble for the fine doctors who would treat me if I just died instead of seeking treatment, unless of course you count the time the mortician would have to spend on me but hey, they can just throw these people in a ditch on the side of the road.

      I am one of the people that have been wrongfully banned and one of the people who have contacted Mr. Kingsley-Hughes with regards to this problem and I am grateful for his support of the innocent people who have been banned. The fact remains that Microsoft won?t provide any sort of reasonable recourse for their actions and that is the problem everyone is disputing. Just like the three rings of death issue, we have to voice our opinions loudly and persistently if we hope to see any sort of reasonable action from Microsoft. Period.
      Yuriy D
      Reply Vote

    • I certainly do see something wrong

      I certainly do see something wrong with Microsoft having the power to ban a user who has done nothing wrong. Users must have the opportunity to prove they have not modded their box.

      This argument of "If Microsoft says you are guilty, then you are guilty" is just ridiculous. I have not been affected by this ban, but my wife had her Hotmail account shut down under similar ridiculous circumstances. That's the Hotmail account she pays for, not a free account. They claimed that it had been used to send spam; it had not but we were given no opportunity to prove otherwise. Even after they shut it down, Microsoft continued to bill us for it of course. Why should shutting it down prevent them from collecting money?

      All of this led me to finally buying a Mac. I will not support a company with business practices like this. Now, it's time to look into a PS-3 and not wait for Microsoft to say I'm guilty and shut me down for no reason.
      tmg1
      Reply Vote

      • If MS says...then you are

        I concur. These types of policies continue to drive market share to the competition. Best thing that ever happened for product choice. Go MS!
        md_wilson
        Reply Vote

    • Good one, Mike

      "My rep showed me the algorithms used by XBOX live to determine the state of the console, and the code is elegant and refined."

      Snicker.
      Satire flag: "the code is elegant and refined"

      "by a new console is the path of least resistance for the customer"

      Umm .. "buy", not "by".

      This is a great one.
      I love how this troll got a couple of outrages.

      Keep up the good work, Mike.
      I would love to meet your rep someday.
      mr_bandit
      Reply Vote

    • Total BS!

      First off unless you work for or with MS there is no way they showed you the code they use for detecting mods... this would be huge as if it gets out the people who work making mods would have it circumvented in a day. MS's big advantage right now is NO ONE KNOWS how they are detecting mods.

      Secondly even the best most elegant code is only as infallible as it's creators. Either you have never coded before or you have no idea what you are talking about as it's very easy to think you have airtight code but it turns out you missed one little thing... heck that's how people circumvent the security on products in the first place! They find gaps in the code and take advantage of it.

      Thirdly your are arguing a really bad foundation as it's proven that MS WGA authentication has reported numerous systems as being non genuine when indeed they were! Detecting modded boxes is almost certainly subject to similar potential flaws.

      Computers may not make mistakes but the people who program and create them do... to say if MS says you are guilty then you are is just idiocy.
      Devedander
      Reply Vote

      • Um - humor much?

        I took Mike's post as satire, myself....
        drprodny
        Reply Vote

  • RE: Microsoft goes on a... STUPID BUSINESS MOVE!!!

    Where's the problem? If Microsoft wants to alienate all it's loyal followers and fans, I'm positive someone will step in and take advantage of it. Perhaps SONY would love to get an influx of Xbox "refugees" seeking a new home on their online service!!
    Perhaps GameTap would like to offer online gaming to owners of "modded" Xboxes.
    Supply and demand and free enterprise would seem to dictate that there will be a niche to fill and PROFIT from, since MS doesn't WANT their customers money.
    Oh what would Mr. Krabb say, if he heard that some company didn't want MONEY?? "SpongeBob, create me an online game service for modded Xboxes. There's money to be made!!"
    daddykevin13
    Reply Vote

  • Where are the....

    Defenders of the faith? Microsoft is doing something sleazy, defend your gods! Got to
    love the "buy a new xbox 360 angle". Sales must be lagging, so this should help
    "bump up the numbers". Wait a second, this is hardware, the owner should be able to
    modify it, without being banned. Or is Microsoft given a pass on this one?
    Rick_K
    Reply Vote

    • RE: Where the defenders....

      <sarcasm>

      You forget one thing - [b]you never "own" an XBOX,[/b] in Microshaaaaaft's eyes, you merely [i]license[/i] it. It is [b]theirs[/b] to do with as they damn well please.

      </sarcasm>
      fatman65535
      Reply Vote

    • Actually...

      They are in the right to ban modded boxes from accessing live... you one the box, you don't own the live service. The box is in no way broken or tampered with by being banned, you are just prevented from accessing their service.

      It's like if you want to paint I HATE JESUS on a shirt you own, it's a free country, but don't be surprised if they don't let you in churches anymore... you don't own the churches and they don't have to let you in if they don't like what you have done to what you do own.
      Devedander
      Reply Vote

  • Thank you Mr. Kingsley-Hughes

    And again, thank you. I was one of the probably many users who sent you an e-mail regarding this issue. I am very happy and very grateful that you are helping us in the ways you can by bringing this issue to the public???s attention. To date, I have spoken with at least six (including two ???supervisors???) different representatives at Microsoft???s customer support line with no avail. Oh, and to note, I???m not allowed to speak with any managers because supervisors are the highest us ???peons??? are allowed to speak to.

    Because Microsoft simply refuses to take any sort of action or allow any reasonable recourse to their actions, I have had no choice but to contact several consumer protection agencies, the Better Business Bureau, the Federal Trade Commission, and any company or person that will assist in my efforts to bring these unconscionable actions and trade practices. Mr. Kingsley-Hughes, I would like to thank you again for your support towards the issues faced by the steadily increasing number of innocent Xbox Live users that were wrongfully banned. I hope that Xbox will take corrective actions to remedy this problem before this turns into another media fiasco for them and another useless migraine for us.

    -Y-
    Yuriy D
    Reply Vote

    • Do I smell

      Class action lawsuit?
      Devedander
      Reply Vote

  • At least let us defend ourselves

    I'm a recent victim of a false positive from the Microsoft ban-bot. I too have called and talked to as many people as I could about getting my system looked at so they can verify that I haven't tampered with it in any way. Sure there's no way for me to defend myself over the internet, but I'm more than willing to shell out 50 bucks to send my 360 in so someone there can prove it.

    Unfortunately Microsoft doesn't even allow its paying customers who have been accidentally banned to even attempt to reverse the ban. I've spent way too much money on games and downloadable content to justify just buying a PS3 or something. All I ask for is some channel for people to contest the ban.
    jwnarron@...
    Reply Vote

    • That's the hook.

      Once you're in that position, you're at Microsoft's mercy. Microsoft would rather have
      you "just buy another xbox" (send them your whole paycheck, while you're at it) and
      add to their bottom line. They're counting on you not buying a Wii or PS 3.
      Rick_K
      Reply Vote
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