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Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Microsoft is right, the classic Start Menu is inefficient, but I'm not sure the Start Screen is the answer

By | October 13, 2011, 10:08am PDT

Summary: Is the Windows 8 Start Screen the right replacement for the classic Start menu?

What follows are my thoughts and feelings related to Microsoft’s latest post over on Building Windows 8 about the Windows 8 Start Screen.

Over on Building Windows 8 blog, Microsoft’s latest post works hard at trying to convince the reader that the classic Windows Start Menu is both inefficient and outdated. I agree with this so there’s no argument from me. The post then goes on to argue that the Windows 8 Start Screen is so much better for both mouse users and those who will be using touch. On this point, I remain unconvinced.

Before I begin

Before I begin, one point I want to make. I’ve been using Windows 8 now on several setups for many hours, and overall I’ve very pleased with what I’m seeing. The OS features many improvements that I feel will be of enormous benefit to home, small office and enterprise users alike.

I like Windows, and I like Windows 8.

A lot.

But.

I’m still not convinced that Microsoft plan to shove a touch interface into what is essentially isn’t designed to be used that way is flawed, and I’m worried about what effect this may have on both users and the Windows ecosystem in general.

Some assumptions

I’m going to make one assumption here about the PC landscape during the years that we can expect Windows 8 to reign (2012 to say 2015). That is that touchscreen technology on the PC (both on desktops and notebooks) won’t become mainstream in this time and that the default input devices that most home and business users will be relying on will still be the humble keyboard and mouse. I make this assumption with absolute confidence. Sure, we’re going to see touch-enabled PC from OEMs, but these will feature a premium price tag and as such remain high-end, luxury items. As far as the budget and mainstream markets are concerned (and those two categories will represent over 85% of Windows 8 users), Windows 8 might as well not be touch-enabled.

In other words, touch might one day be big, but expecting it to go big during the three or so years that Windows 8 will shine for is crazy.

Solution looking for a problem

So, what Microsoft is proposing to do in Windows 8 is replace the Start Menu, something that even I admit is kludgy and even with the best will in the world can rapidly degenerate into a confusing hellstew, with a mechanism that’s designed primarily with touch in mind. Sure, you can drive it with a mouse, but the overall idea here is to make it capable of being driven with the simplest pointing device - the finger. Problem is, that’s not going to be an option for the majority of Windows 8 users. So in other words, Microsoft is making sweeping changes to the OS for the benefit of a tiny minority or users.

And there, in a nutshell, is the problem with the Start Screen - it’s a solution looking for a problem to solve. If people were clamoring for touch-enabled PCs then the Start Screen makes sense, but they’re not, and they’re unlikely to be for the foreseeable future.

I have a question for Microsoft. Exactly how is this (something that to me looks like a throwback to the Program Manager days of Windows 3.1) …

… any easier (to use and on the eye) for keyboard and mouse users than this … ?

Both involve scrolling, but at least the Start Menu focuses the eye and the user’s attention on a small portion of the screen.

Invoking Fitts’ law –>

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Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology.

Disclosure

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

All opinions expressed on Hardware 2.0 are those of Adrian Kingsley-Hughes. Every effort is made to ensure that the information posted is accurate. If you have any comments, queries or corrections, please contact Adrian via the email link here. Any possible conflicts of interest will be posted below. [Updated: February 23, 2010] - Adrian Kingsley-Hughes has no business relationships, affiliations, investments, or other actual/potential conflicts of interest relating to the content posted so far on this blog.

Biography

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology -- whether that be by learning to program, building a PC from a pile of parts, or helping them get the most from their new MP3 player or digital camera.

Adrian has authored/co-authored technical books on a variety of topics, ranging from programming to building and maintaining PCs. His most recent books include "Build the Ultimate Custom PC", "Beginning Programming" and "The PC Doctor's Fix It Yourself Guide". He has also written training manuals that have been used by a number of Fortune 500 companies.

Adrian also runs a popular blog under the name The PC Doctor, where he covers a range of computer-related topics -- from security to repairing and upgrading.

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Start menu
Refurbished 22nd Dec
I don't see how the start screen is going to be more efficient than the start menu. If I don't spot something immediately on the start menu, I usually use the search box. It works well. (Of course you have to have some idea what the name is of what you're looking for.)
MS talks about how inefficient the start menu is because it requires scrolling. Yet, it was the users who screamed about the lack of real estate the vista/7 start menu used which required scrolling and the removal of classic start menu in 7.

Now they agree and come up with a touch driven "menu" that is clearly not drivable with a mouse. Yes, I've been trying.

Instead of forcing this metro UI on users they should do what they did with the start menu change in xp/vista. Offer the new UI but allow for users to go "classic" and don't force the metro UI for another 2-3 releases.

I won't move to win 8 without a familiar start menu option
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@mike2k

But they've already admitted as much. Scroll wheel doesn't work, neither does clicking on the screen and dragging left or right. Both are things I would expect to work for beta, which would help. Personally it's not that big of a deal as I'm already accustomed to using search on the start menu, and the Start Key > Type stuff still works with the new start screen. It actually works better overall.

That said, I still think they should have the option to use either. The new Start Screen is brilliant for touch devices but I don't know how much tweaking it would take to make it usable for a keyboard and mouse. It would also be really good on a TV with a Kinect sensor. Even if my desktop monitor had a touch screen it would still suck to use because it's too far away, and having to leave the keyboard and mouse to reach across the desktop to the monitor sounds woefully ineffecient.

I still think the registry key that allows you to disable the start screen in the developer preview is indication it will be an option that can be toggled. I hope I'm not wrong. Of course, Windows 7 still rocks and I really don't have a problem continuing to use it on the desktop. And since Microsoft support the previous version of Windows much the way they do the current, I'm okay with that. Maybe as we get to 2015 and Windows 9 the new interface will start to make more sense. And I'm okay with that too.
WinTeam is so obsessed with tablets they forget what Windows is for.
@mike2k
+1

I can't make heads or tails of the new "non-menu" either. It's non-intuitive for a PC. Looks like it might work on a limited purpose phone though... The Start Menu isn't perfect, but it mostly works. It kinda looks like they did a bad ripoff of Ubuntu Unity, only made it much worse.... (I don't exactly like Unity either except for Netbooks).

Vista drove me to Ubuntu as an escape, and I only partly came back with improved/fixed Win7 which I find pretty nice overall. Only now I only run Win7 in a VM isolated from physical hardware for specific apps and then shut it back off when done since it isn't needed for normal day to day stuff anymore. Win8 will likely push me over the edge for good. I'm hoping the feedback from the Dev Preview will cause them to go back and rethink a bit.
@mike2k: To be fair Microsoft have said scrolling with a mouse and keyboard navigation aren't finished. They know they don't yet work properly.

Otherwise, I completely agree.

I also agree with the main article pointing out the new UI is designed for minority of users but given to everyone.

Except the start screen, Windows 8 looks awesome. So many features will be USPs: Social networking integration, Windows Live/SkyDrive built in, transferring settings across PCs.

I especially hate how jarring it is to go from desktop to start screen and back again.
@mike2k
I fully agree on this. But there is something much worse than the deficiencies you have mentioned. A touch interface is very deficient on the desktop. As items are designed for touch (touch first, according to Microsoft), these have to be large enough to be touched. Thus, the richness of information that can be offered on the desktop is vanishing fast. Our high resolution monitors, designed to include more information, lose all their value as programs and infoscreens are designed for elements that need to be touched. I hate to see what would happen if Microsoft Office is designed for "touch first". It would be totally ridiculous. One would need a 50-inch monitor to fit in the same spreadsheet that can be accommodated in a 21-inch monitor.

There no doubt that "touch-based" interfaces are totally inefficient for the desktop. If Microsoft has an issue with the inefficiency of a the Start screen, there are many other solutions, including the taskbar (which MS prefers not to talk about).

Let's be realistic. Windows 8 is all about the tablets. Microsoft would be happy to sell Windows 7 licenses to others. Possibly, a service pack will provide the same memory efficiency and device drivers to Windows 7.

The fact is that MS obsessing on tablets (which would prove a distraction) may prove its undoing.
@LiquidLearner

The Kinect is The Answer regarding navigation. The physical keyboard I guess still the best for typing...
I still prefer the classic Start Menu. Whenever I have to use a Windows machine, it's one of the first things I set. To me, it was simple and efficient.
@msalzberg: It's rubbish. It takes 3 clicks to get into Control Panel, Printers, Network vs. 2 on the XP/Vista/Win7 Start Menu.

There's no capability for pinning apps directly to the start menu (useful in XP/Vista for apps you use less than ones in Quick Launch), it's redundant in Win7 (pinning to task bar replaces it). You cannot get to Documents, Pictures, Videos, Downloads at all. It has no direct search functionality, like it does in Vista/Win7.

Microsoft did go back a step by many "All Programs" scrollable. It was better in XP filling more of the screen. I appreciate this was done for low resolution screens though.

If you mean simple, as in it's basic. Then I agree.

p.s - Good luck setting it in Windows 7 wink.
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@msalzberg ... When I get a Windows box to use at work (I don't use them at home) I set everything back to basically the way things looked in Windows 2000, which to me was the best Windows because (blush) I worked on a small part of it, but basically it was simple and got out of the way.

Since then Microsoft has been trying to 'be somebody' with that god-awful Fisher Price looking XP, the half-@ssed Vista trying to copy the Mac by putting hardware graphics in to the desktop, and finally Win 7 where there is just too much going on, too many control panels, too many different kinds of control panels and absolutely no taste.

I don't want a Windows 'experience'. I want to test my software and get it out, and the simpler Windows is, the better.

Fortunately the financial services company for which I now work has me leading the new iPhone/iPad/Android product they're putting out, and hopefully it will mean more time with Apple products and less time with Windows. (No time with Windows would be ideal, but I've always been a dreamer).

Long story short, put it back to the old menu, Microsoft, and stop pestering me.
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Easy change
Dogcatcher 14th Oct
I concur with msalzberg, and would like to see a simple change that would make my use of Windows more efficient: Have the Start button open immediately to what is now the All Programs display. Settings, Shut Down, etc. can be entries in the flat list.

Big, fat icons and selection boxes are perfect for punching with a finger tip on a tablet -- and absolutely irrelevant on a desktop system.
After using OS X Lion (and enjoying the experience), I must admit that I have NEVER used Launch Pad to "Launch" an application on my desktop iMac.

IMO, Launch Pad and the new Win 8 Start Screen are similar and I must agree with AKH's opinions that the classic start screen is much better in a desktop environment than the new Win 8 start screen in much the same way that the classic "Dock" in OS X is much better to launch an app than the iPad styled "Launch Pad" option.
Start screen is only the tip of the iceberg of problems with METRO on a desktop/laptop. The biggest is the lack of any way to have multiple windows open and viewable at the same time. You can't refer to an email while working on a spreadsheet. You can't have a process monitoring program open and visible while writing and email that requires you to reference a pdf.

Since that is not possible, most productivity workers will be using the desktop full time. Why should they have to mess with METRO if they are only using the desktop?
I need my start menu. I won't use Windows without it, plain and simple.
This is the same compared to the "Office Button" in Office 2007, and the "Office Button" in 2010. One has a Windows 7 like Start Menu, the other has a new UI feature called "Backstage" that fills the whole screen with various options. I think that is what Microsoft is working towards here. It'll be a hub for your activities, rather than a bland menu.
@Cylon Centurion

But what if I just want to open another program without filling up the whole screen? What is wrong with the always in the background desktop + taskbar + notification tray + desktop widgets as the hub for my activities?
@rshol, they might merge that idea into the start screen, or they should. The desktop is the start screen. That would be handy.
@rshol: The system tray has needed fixing for a long time. It's so easy to have a mess of icons that don't tell the user anything useful, until you open them one by one.
I like that Microsoft change the option when a user put a normal led or other monitor that no use a touch screen, that it switch to the desktop screen, like windows 7. When a user brought a Touch screen monitor that is get switch to the Metro applet screen so that the user can use it with the Touch screen. I hope that this will come in Windows 8
Since Microsoft has a long standing policy of Its Microsofts way, to the highway, They can pretty much foist any paradigm change on the end users with no repercussions. It will only come at the point that Microsoft pushes end users beyond the breaking point that there will be a change.
@Rick_Kl

Soooo..... I guess that means iOS gives me a choice of UIs? Does Mac OS X give me a choice of UIs? No? Ok, then.
@Cylon Centurion I guess you missed it. Microsoft is the one foisting a change on people, just for the sake of change. Their methodology is all wrong, as movie the mouse pointer all the way across the screen is more inefficient than using a menu. But Microsoft has declared menus dead.
@Cylon Centurion So does this mean you're going to switch to Linux, which does? wink

But seriously, I wish anyone writing about these start menu battles would take a look at the default KDE task launcher. It has five tabs, and tabs are switched just by hovering the mouse over them. The first is "Favorites", where you naturally can pin your favorite programs. The second, "Applications", solves a lot of the issues with finding a program on Windows. All of the programs installed are filed under their "type" of program. For instance, one might have Recently Installed, Development, Edutainment, Games, Graphics, Internet, Multimedia, Office, System, Utilities. If you click on one of these, the image on the panel sort of slides to the left and you have a new screen (still within the same physical area) rather like clicking a forward or backward button on a browser. Now, here you may see more subcategories or not. The default is if you have more than one application in the subcategory you see it (say if you have MySQLMan and SquirrelSQL installed, then there will be a category "Databases" in the screen after "Office"). But if you have only one database app then no "Database" category is shown and the app icon is in the Office submenu. You can click a little left icon to go back to the previous screen if necessary. The default setup is for the app to have the name of its *program type* in large letters and only show the program name in small letters if the mouse hovers over it. For instance, show the icon and "Word Processor" rather than "OpenOffice Writer". This can be turned off and reversed but is nice for new users.
There's no weird tree structure like in the Win7 menu (and no issues with programs installing themselves under the name of the company).
The third tab is "Computer" and here one generally finds things like any system config tools, software management, and links to things like the user's document, video, music and other folders.
The fourth pane is "recently used" and will generally show the last five launched applications and the last ten opened documents and be persistent across reboots.
The last pane would be "Leave" and have icons for logging out, locking the screen, switching the user, sleep, hibernate, reboot and shut down.

On top of the menu and available across all panes is a search dialog to find any installed program.

The design predates but improves on the Win7 design IMHO, particularly as the tab method allows almost all of the start menu to be used for a particular task, unlike in Win7 as can be seen from the article's screen shot, where there are three things going on at once (necessitating the use of things like "All Programs").
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@Rick_Kl
For both good and bad, Apple is the one that tends to release products that only work in the way that Apple intended that product to work and has typically offered less customization options than any other manufacturer. Like I said though, this is both good and bad.

Linux based systems clearly offer the most flexibility.

MS systems are typically somewhere in the middle.

So your little rant is interesting because it is actually totally wrong and more appropriately applied to the company you have chosen to worship: Apple.
When on desktop mode and you have a keyboard just start typing. Within 2 or 3 key strokes you will find the app you want to launch. The Start screen is for when you do not have keyboard handy. They also have that mini menu that pops up on mouse over. Obviously a placeholder for something more substantial.
program and hit enter. That whole icon meme because humans beings are visual organisms is so overhyped. I wonder if Metro has a green text on black background theme.
"Note: What???s interesting about the heat map for the classic Start Menu is that it backs up the theory I had that pinning items to the top of the Start Menu wasn???t the best idea and that pinning to Quick Launch was faster and more efficient."

Only if you have your start menu at the bottom. Putting the start menu at the top, left, or right edge of the screen reverses it and makes them the quickest to access. At home, I have my start bar at the top of the screen while at work I have it on the left. Besides, pinning to the quick launch bar should be for your most used applications. Putting everything on it is sort of silly.
I agree and the start screen is like cluttering up a desktop with icons. I like the start menu in Vista and Win7 and I rarely hunt and peck for what I want. I usually just hit the Windows Key and search for the program or file. Much faster than clicking through menu after menu or scrolling from Icon screen to Icon Screen.

I think the Start Screen will be effective for tablets and the tablet based apps but when it comes to desktop computing it seems more cumbersome than helpful.
I haven't used the start menu since before Windows XP tbh ... and I always guide my clients to move away from the start menu. Here at the company all machines are loaded with Total Commander in the quick launch bar. (formerly known as Windows Commander from the dos era)

In there you have all the file managment needs you'd ever require (and a lot easier then explorer) and on the top we have the appz we use as shurtcuts in Total Commander itself.. I really don't understand people who still use the start menu .. it's slow and belongs in the past..
If people ONLY did 1 task ever then the start menu will be as efficient as the METRO interface. The problem is that people DO multiple items / tasks and the more you do the less efficient anyone becomes when time slicing.

The trick is to allow people to ORGANIZE what they do so that they can get to what they do most often easier. That was the reason for the "Quick Launch" idea - allow PEOPLE to put the dozen or so things that they do the most in a convenient place and with one click open them.

MS, starting with Windows 7, is basically blocking people from doing that BY DESIGN.

The beauty of Windows for all these years was the ability to rearrange it to allow them to work the way THEY did. Now MS is taking that all away and saying you WILL work THIS way - which is how IT has been heading for years now and EVERYONE HATES the IT department because of it.

"We bought this applicaiton and now all the things you have learned must be tossed out and you have to redo all your processes, and all the other requirements that you have to do will all have to be redon, to match the application we bought FOR you without bothering to ask you at all."

Which is why IT has such a bad rep for the past 10 years.

MS will now get the bad rep for FORCING people to do things THEIR way. MS could say: "It's for their own good, we did studies of people in a lab andin a controlled company situation forcing people to use our tools this way and it worked!"
@TAPhilo

"MS will now get the bad rep for FORCING people to do things THEIR way. MS could say: "It's for their own good, we did studies of people in a lab andin a controlled company situation forcing people to use our tools this way and it worked!" "

I don't exactly remember Apple letting users do as they wish either. Just sayin'.
@Cylon Centurion

Yes, exactly. We already have Apple for that - MS is supposed to be the go-between, a choice between a fully locked in ecosystem like Apple vs. the wild west of Linux.

Now MS sees Apple's profits, and wants to emulate their model. I don't think it's going to work.
@Cylon Centurion, I'm using Lion now.

If I choose to, I can press command-space to open Spotlight search, which searches the contents of files and filenames. If I then type 't', 'e', 'r', 'm' (the start of Terminal) by the time I've hit the fourth character, the Spotlight results list shows "Terminal" at the top .

Then, if I press 'return', a standard terminal appears. From there, I can do anything that a person can do on a Linux or UNIX box.

This doesn't seem very inflexible or difficult to me. With a few more keystrokes I can access X Windows and an Xterm and be running legacy UNIX/X Windows code from several decades ago.

Lion just isn't the straight-jacket you think.
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There are better things already
voice recognition technology
facial and optical tracking technology
touch technology might be a non-starter and Microsoft has no vision for the future.
@zmud
Touch IS a non-starter; good only for casual tablet or PDA type devices. Just try using a touch screen for serious data entry.
then for windows 9 maybe they'll invent "folders" to organize that start screen. And, get this, a background image called "wallpaper" instead of just a plain green screen.
Really the Start Screen is just the merger between the taskbar, the desktop, quick launch, and the start menu. So you can place all the programs you want on the new "desktop" and be ready to go. Installers will like have to have specific options that allow you pick what to place on the start screen, or they won't get to be on the start screen and are only available via search. Ultimately this is a serious improvement even for keyboards and mice, they just haven't released all the functionality for mice yet.

Also, Touch will be overwhelmingly huge in the next year or so. You can already buy decent All-In-One's for fairly cheap, and tablets will increase this market. Also, having Windows 8 be so touch friendly will drive faster adoption of touch screens. There have also been drastic improvements in touch technology that will help make this even more prevalent. In two years, most new computers will have touch, even for corporate purchases.
@grayknight

I agree, people are so rooted in the past that there afraid to embrace the future. I for one am eagerly awating Windows 8 and when its released ill buy myself a brand new 30" touch monitor to go with it happy looking forward to it!
@DJK2
Since you are so forward thinking - try Ubuntu 11.10, released today! If you say no, its because you are so rooted in the past you are afraid to embrace the future.
@grayknight

Touch on a desktop PC's will NOT be "overwhemlingly huge" - have you even thought about how that would work? Who in the heck would want to continually keep their arm extended and poke at the screen of a desktop when trying to do work?

The mouse and the keyboard are simply superior to touch for a wide variety of productivity software. That will not change, it's a question of form factor.
They could offer an "optional" classic start menu type of "view" with smaller icons on the Start Screen. "Everything" needs to be optional so that touch screen users get what they want and keyboard/mouse users get what they want.
Right now, as a keyboard/trackpad user, I glance at the start screen to see if there is anything new and then head straight for the desktop.
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Microsoft suicide?
What_the 13th Oct
As an Windows developer for 20+ years the Win8 Developer Preview is driving me nuts trying to navigate it with a keyboard and mouse. I'm still struggling to figure out how to do what should be simple things. Like how do you from the search page pin a classic Windows app to the desktop launch tray?

The loss of the classic start menu in the Win8 desktop looks to be a monumental faux pas. Users trained all these years on the classic desktop who don't have a touch capable display device are going to be livid. One of the largest medical providers in my area is still using Windows XP in the medical clinics and urgent care clinics.

I'm still playing with the Win8 preview so I may soften my dread of this next gen Windows yet.

But right now I'm thinking Microsoft is about to commit operating system suicide as far as users of desktop PC's without touch capability go. It's going to be a sales disaster if the average Joe gets a look at this revision before buying a operating system upgrade or new system.

Microsoft must think that the iPad/Touchpad style computer is the future of personal computing. I'm thinking it's more like a supplement.
@What_the

Launch the application. If it loads in the desktop, then right click the icon in the taskbar and say "Pin to taskbar"
Has anyone tried metro UI on a dual screen? How does it work? Does it allow for multiple apps to be viewable at once?
@mike2k
So its a scam to sell more screens? Can't open multiple apps and get any work done without more than one monitor.
0 Votes
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Start screen automation
pdth 13th Oct
I think they weren't really clear on how the "Apps" screen relates to the Start screen, and how much customization would eventually be exposed in the Start screen. I suppose this is because they are still deciding that.

I've always felt that the Win7 Start Menu could benefit from a 2D presentation, and I see they realized that too. I hate scrolling and I also hated the Win XP approach with all the wrapping and cascading. So in general I think they are going in the right direction.

I share your concern about exposing all the readmes, uninstallers, help, utilities, templates etc on the Apps screen. It's hard to see how they are going to avoid offering some sort of folder feature to hide the items that are rarely used.

But what will address the problem best, is if we have full control to select, move, and group tiles on the Start screen, since that is the one we will use most of the time at any skill level above novice. The amount of tile customizability offered by developers will also be important.
What is so bad/wrong by having one's top few most-used applications as icons in the Taskbar and the remainder in the traditional Start Menu list? This obsession with tiles may work for those people with a few applications on a tablet; but, for serious laptop users??
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Start menu
Refurbished 22nd Dec
I don't see how the start screen is going to be more efficient than the start menu. If I don't spot something immediately on the start menu, I usually use the search box. It works well. (Of course you have to have some idea what the name is of what you're looking for.)

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