ie8 fix
madison

Hardware 2.0

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

No matter what Apple says, you can't get a rich web experience without Flash

By | February 1, 2010, 11:18am PST

Summary: Over the weekend I’ve come across a lot of chatter about Adobe’s Flash multimedia platform. Do we need it? Is it relevant? I got news for you - for now, you’re stuck with it.

Over the weekend I’ve come across a lot of chatter about Adobe’s Flash multimedia platform. Do we need it? Is it relevant?

I got news for you - for now, you’re stuck with it.

I think that what’s prompted this debate is the unveiling of Apple’s new iPad. Why? Because just like the iPhone and the iPod touch, the iPad doesn’t support the Flash platform. This raises several questions, such as, “Why doesn’t the iPad support Flash?”, “Can a device that doesn’t support Flash deliver a rich web experience?” and “Is Flash still relevant?”

Let’s take a closer look at some of these questions.

Why doesn’t the iPad support Flash?

We don’t know. There are two possibilities. One is that just like how Apple got rid of the floppy drive on Macs before almost anyone else did, Apple is again being innovative, trimming away unnecessary features. The other is that Apple, for whatever reason, can’t get Adobe to properly support its iPhone platform.

Which is most likely? Despite Apple’s history of trimming away the fat, I find it hard to believe that Apple is ready to cut Flash adrift just yet. Some speculate that Apple doesn’t want Flash on the iPhone OS because it’s a security risk. Maybe, but to be honest, I don’t think this is likely.

Whatever the reason, this lack of Flash support has left Steve Jobs having to resort to smoke and mirrors sleight of hand to convince us that a web without Flash is still a rich web experience.

Which leads us nicely to the next question …

Can a device that doesn’t support Flash deliver a rich web experience?

Here’s the way I see it. The screen on the iPhone is pretty small, so small that most things that we use Flash for (games, eye candy) wouldn’t work scaled down to that size. This means that there’s little pressure on Apple from, say, Facebook users wanting to be able to play Fame Town or Happy Aquarium while on the move.

But what happens when users are faced with a nice, big 9.7 inch screen? The kind of screen that looks idea for playing all those Flash games on? Looking at the iPad, I’d instinctively expect it to work like a regular browser. Why not? Be giving the iPhone OS the same rendering engine that’s present in the Safari web browser, Apple’s made mobile web browsing look and feel like desktop web browsing … the noticeable exception being Flash.

I still believe that a web browsing experience that doesn’t include Flash isn’t a rich web experience. What remains to be seen is how folks who buy the iPad will feel about web - Flash, and who will they blame for this glaring omission.

Poll

How important is Flash support to you?

Is Flash still relevant?

Now this is the $64,000 question. I think that it depends on what kind of web user you are, but I think it’s safe to say that for the majority of users, Flash is a key part of the web. Sure, there are upsides to not having Flash (greater security, fewer updates, no annoying Flash-based ads … ), but there are a lot of downsides, such as no games, streaming video, interactivity.

Sure, there are technologies that could replace Flash, such as HTML 5, but for now, we’re stuck with Flash, and to a lesser extent, Microsoft’s competing technology Silverlight. These technologies are key to delivering content over the web. Of course, Apple wants you to buy content through iTunes rather than get it through other sources, but with that big screen and a browser built right into the device, not having Flash support is is going to be big surprise for quite a few users.

What are your thoughts on Flash?

Kick off your day with ZDNet's daily e-mail newsletter. It's the freshest tech news and opinion, served hot. Get it.

Topics

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology.

Disclosure

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

All opinions expressed on Hardware 2.0 are those of Adrian Kingsley-Hughes. Every effort is made to ensure that the information posted is accurate. If you have any comments, queries or corrections, please contact Adrian via the email link here. Any possible conflicts of interest will be posted below. [Updated: February 23, 2010] - Adrian Kingsley-Hughes has no business relationships, affiliations, investments, or other actual/potential conflicts of interest relating to the content posted so far on this blog.

Biography

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology -- whether that be by learning to program, building a PC from a pile of parts, or helping them get the most from their new MP3 player or digital camera.

Adrian has authored/co-authored technical books on a variety of topics, ranging from programming to building and maintaining PCs. His most recent books include "Build the Ultimate Custom PC", "Beginning Programming" and "The PC Doctor's Fix It Yourself Guide". He has also written training manuals that have been used by a number of Fortune 500 companies.

Adrian also runs a popular blog under the name The PC Doctor, where he covers a range of computer-related topics -- from security to repairing and upgrading.

Related Discussions on TechRepublic

Did you know you can take part in these discussions with your ZDNet membership?
71
Comments

Join the conversation!

Just In

Wrong: ever heard of Silverlight or HTML5? (nt)
kckn4fun 24th Feb 2010
nt
0 Votes
+ -
Nope - None here
drf999 1st Feb 2010
Flashblock is the very first add-on that I install.
AdBlock plus is the second.
0 Votes
+ -
HTML5 is all hype
LBiege 1st Feb 2010
It's OK for simple web pages w/ some multimedia in there. It's a joke as a serious APP platform, and Google knows it too yet they keep misleading people w/ this hype.

Flash is not good as a platform either.
0 Votes
+ -
Agreed
mtgarden 2nd Feb 2010
But I use NoScript to block flash. Then I simply re-enable the flash on specific areas that need it (i.e. the rare youtube vid).

I have to have Flash, but I don't have to have it running all the time. :-p

Not having Flash seems more petulant then anything. I hear through the grapevine, that Adobe CS3 works better on windows now than the Mac. I know that certain Apple updates prior to 10.5 broke part of the suite, and last I heard, neither company had fixed the problem. There also seem to be some other issues related to Adobe products on the Mac.

Then DaringFireball commented that supposedly Apple had more Safari crash reports from Flash then any other tech. (That could be a Safari problem though).

Still it seems that the two companies are warring and the Mac customer is getting caught in the middle.
0 Votes
+ -
zdnet & flash
bannedfromzdnetagain 1st Feb 2010
what is it with everyone here on zdnet fighting tooth and
nails for adobe's proprietary flash technology? instead of
supporting apple's push for a web based solely on open
standards (ajax, html 5). flash is a mess, a bug ridden,
resource hog, security nightmare of ancient technology.

apple doesn't want flash because they want full control over
their own products. and you get that only with open,
standard based, formats, not depending on other companies'
proprietary technology.
0 Votes
+ -
apple doesn't want flash because they want full control over 
their own products. and you get that only with open,
standard based, formats, not depending on other companies'
proprietary technology


I would think Apple IS his own propietary technology: its format for the iTunes/iPod - and now for eBooks, which will be different from the ones used by Amazon, Barnes&Nobles, Sony.
0 Votes
+ -
format
bannedfromzdnetagain Updated - 1st Feb 2010
apple always uses standard formats, sometimes they impose drm on top
of it when content owners demand it. apple will use the open ePub
format, instead of proprietary formats used by amazon or sony. we don't
know more yet.
0 Votes
+ -
It's All Relative . . .
TAPhilo 1st Feb 2010
In Apples' eyes, its only proprietary when its not YOURS!
0 Votes
+ -
Thank God there's Flashblock
The Mentalist 1st Feb 2010
Flash is a pain, I love the Flashblock plugin.
0 Votes
+ -
for once I agree with you (nt)
SystemVoid 1st Feb 2010
nt
0 Votes
+ -
.0000000000001% of the population
pcguy777 2nd Feb 2010
agrees !

LULZORS !
I think Apple doesn't allow Adobe Flash because they want to have total control over any application development for their devices. Flash and Silverlight have advanced to the point where you can build applications (albeit, not as robust) with them, which would allow people to circumvent Apple's approval process.
0 Votes
+ -
I doubt that
nova81426 1st Feb 2010
A year before Apple was allowing people to write native apps, they were
encouraging people to build web apps, and they still have a large portion
of their dev center dedicated to iPhone web apps. I don't know why they
don't want Flash, but it's not because they want control over apps.
0 Votes
+ -
Apple is Spinning
daengbo 2nd Feb 2010
First of all, I want to say that I think Apple
is spinning the unavailability of Flash because
Apple's having a little spat with Adobe over
future support of the Mac platform.

Apple could, though, put some resources into one
of the almost finished, open Flash alternatives
(Gnash, for example), just as they did by
turning KHTML into WebKit. I guess the size of
the egos involved makes that impossible.
0 Votes
+ -
He claims that "he does not know" why Apple hates Flash. I'll tell you
why: Flash absolutely sucks on OS X and Linux. Flash is so against what
we consider an open web: it's like IE in this regard. If Flash is an integral
part of the web experience, why on earth should such an experience be
platform specific? Flash is fine if you are using a PC and the website
designer is conscientious.

Jobs is right: when Safari crashes, it is usually because of Flash. Adobe is
lazy.
0 Votes
+ -
nt
0 Votes
+ -
Rich web experience... (Skip Intro)
HollywoodDog 1st Feb 2010
Flash is the delivery mechanism for annoying ads that move across a web page, and you can't find an easy way to stop them. So there you are, every second an eternity, as some marketer obstructs your view of a news story. That's what Flash is.
0 Votes
+ -
like the one on Zdnet.com?
SystemVoid 1st Feb 2010
with that annoying idiot rolling a giant ball of
cords and crap across the screen? As many times as
I had to see that stupid ad, I never once caught
the advertiser's name, or even what they were
selling.

Effective advertising, huh?
0 Votes
+ -
seriously?
mnkyhead 2nd Feb 2010
do you think those annoying ad would go away if flash was gone? Advertiser would just switch to other tech(HTML 5)to create their ads. Flash has a high penetration rate, and is easier to develop "rich" content then html, so that is why it is used for these ads. It is such an infantile argument against Flash.
0 Votes
+ -
Flash, Flash, Flash
Mectron 1st Feb 2010
Flash is Maleware, nothing more. It is the most anoying piece of crap available on the net.

It need to go, but according to the pole on this page. there is a very hight % of clueless idiots who want Adobe to continue poluting the net with Flash
0 Votes
+ -
Maybe Adobe won't PAY Stevie Boy...
IT_Guy_z 1st Feb 2010
...for the "privilege" of him allowing Flash on HIS hardware.

I wouldn't be at all surprised. After all, he tried to "hold up' Verizon a couple of years ago over the Gen 1 iPhone.
Keep theorizing.
0 Votes
+ -
Thanks folks!
MC_z 1st Feb 2010
Didn't know there were flashblockers for Safari until I read it
here three minutes ago. Now I've got one. I guess that's my
vote.
0 Votes
+ -
Seconded
oncall 1st Feb 2010
Seriously, one of these random adverts causes serious headaches at some of the computers I use. I'm putting this add-on on all my computers today. Thanks!

Not to sound paranoid but is the REAL reason behind this article that ZDNET gets advertising dollars from all it's "flash based" advertisements?
They are now nicely situated with apps that run on any platform, unlike Apple and MS.

For Apple, they would love if everyone used H.264 in HTML5 Video tags because they have already paid their licensing costs. Same goes for Google Chrome browser.

Mozilla won't support H.264 because it isn't part of the open source philosophy, attached to patenting licensing restrictions.

Apple is in full control. Do not adjust the vertical, Do not adjust the horizontal.

Static, line noise, out! !@#$%^&*
0 Votes
+ -
Unless they wish to get left behind, period and done with, argument finished.... they just have to do that, it is THE de-facto standard for video now.
0 Votes
+ -
That's an excuse...
MC_z 1st Feb 2010
...not a reason.
0 Votes
+ -
Made no sense.
0 Votes
+ -
Wow. Thanks for that link
eMJayy 1st Feb 2010
That was very informative. After reading the article, I wholeheartedly agree with Mozilla on this stance that they've taken. I have to admit that I didn't see this one coming. There's no way that I could support the use of h264 in embedded video if small software developers years from now are going to have to pay, perhaps in the millions, just to license it. In some ways, it would actually be worse than the situation we face right now with proprietary flash.
As I replied on the poll: Flash is handy at times, but most of the time I don't have use of Flash. As it was already said, there are more annoying ads on Flash than real useful content, which lead to more time to show the web page. When I first had my iPhone, I thought I would have a lot of problems with the missing Flash support, but at the end really a few of all the web sites I consult use Flash.

Even web 2.0 heavy sites such as flickr, use dynamic HTML a lot but very little Flash (on the contrary, I thought before that it used Flash a lot, but it's really not the case). And I'm not talking about the mobile version of flickr here...
More importantly, Flash /Flex and Silverlight are evil doings which fragment the web, so the sooner we get rid of them, the better we will be. I really put a lot of hopes in HTML 5 for that.
Not that it matters - I have no interest in buying anything that can't communicate with my existing devices anyway.
0 Votes
+ -
Need to check your facts
wackoae 1st Feb 2010
I wonder what where those YouTube video I just finished watching on my iPhone.

According to idiots like you, I can't watch it without Flash.
I had no idea that the entire content was available in multiple codecs... Can you tell me where to configure which codec is presented, please? It's not obvious.

But the "catch-up" TV sites I visit are Flash. (Or in one case, Silverlight. But I don't watch anything there.)

Update: I've just tried visiting You-tube without Flash installed, and it's asked me to install it! How strange...
0 Votes
+ -
It HAS to work without Flash
Muttz 2nd Feb 2010
Otherwise it wouldn't work on the iPhone.
0 Votes
+ -
That's circular logic, though
Zogg 2nd Feb 2010
There is a difference between "You-Tube works without Flash" and "Apple has found a way for the iPhone to play Flash video without Adobe's plugin". My experience with a browser that doesn't have a Flash plugin suggests that You-Tube does expect people to have Flash.
0 Votes
+ -
YouTube TestTube
daengbo 2nd Feb 2010
HTML5 support is in YouTube TestTube. Turn it on
and go Flash-less.
http://www.youtube.com/testtube
0 Votes
+ -
Wrong. Lots of streaming services offer non-
Flashed based routes. Both youtube and iplayer
offer native h.264 streaming which works just fine
on the iPhone.

HTML5 plus native streaming will likely kill it
off.
0 Votes
+ -
It is all about content. Whatever Steve Jobs says, the
reason that Apple is not supporting Flash is that if you
had Flash on the iPad you would buy less video from the
iTunes store. If you could watch Hulu, for example, would
you then buy TV shows from iTunes? Maybe, but not nearly
as much. Apple wants to funnel you towards buying content
from the iTunes store, not wathcning free contend via
Flash. It has nothing to do with security or the future
of the web. It has everything to do with the future of
your MONEY!
0 Votes
+ -
SVG will replace Flash
SVGnut 1st Feb 2010
Apple finally has the best incentive to adopt Scalable Vector Images...hate for Adobe;)
0 Votes
+ -
I HATE FLASH!!!
GoodThings2Life 1st Feb 2010
...but accept that it's a necessity in today's web usage, so what's an IT guy to do? I suck it up and install it anyway and make sure it's up-to-date.
I think the lack of Flash support has more to do with giving developers the ability to bypass the App Store than anything else. If the iPad and iPhone had flash support in Safari, then all of a sudden all sorts of Flash applications would be finding their way onto iPhone springboards everywhere. It's not about security or even Adobe development cycles. It's about money and Apple protecting their investment in the App Store.
Previous respondents have nailed it--Jobs wants total control, wants to steer users to the Apple Store, and probably holds a grudge against Adobe for some insult long ago.

I find in amazing that fanboys still buy Apple stuff given that they can't even watch YouTube videos or flv videos on millions of websites. Some day this kind of petty, anti-choice planning is going to bite Apple in the rear. Maybe with the iPad, which I believe will be gone in a year, to be replaced by a nearly identical product running OS X.
0 Votes
+ -
Flash is still necessary for anyone
Lerianis10 1st Feb 2010
Who watches videos online. I don't understand why Apple cannot realize this and simply allow Flash onto the iPhone.
The answer could not be simpler (as some have noted):
Apple does not want a rich media/interactive platform
on their device which they don't control and WILL
compete with iTunes/App Store.

Allowing Flash plugin (or AIR!) means developers can
bypass the App Store and deliver multimedia content
and apps via websites (or installation with AIR).

It is revenue; it is not about openness (Apple's own
formats are proprietary), and more than just security
(don't they tout Macs - which run Flash - as secure?
Couldn't they have a FlashOFF option?)

I've wanted the iPod Touch for a while now as a
handheld computer; the lack of a camera is a letdown
but I can grudgingly ignore it (or just wait for the
inevitable update); not having Flash still denies full
use of the Web, those times when Flash really is well-
used.

They can't hold out forever, though. When mobile
devices become full computers with real power (quad-
core handhelds!), people won't put up with deliberate
media restrictions or lack of expandable slots, not
when competitors have them.
0 Votes
+ -
Jason D. O'Grady gets it
Colorado_AL 1st Feb 2010
0 Votes
+ -
When I'm sitting in a coffee shop playing a Flash
game while listening to some music and checking
out some video clips from Hulu and the guy next to
me with his iPad cannot, I'm thinking maybe a
little light bulb might go off.
0 Votes
+ -
As I've stated in previous blog comments, the lack of Adobe Flash
support is a legitimate iPad purchase deal breaker. (The only one in
my opinion) There is just no way around that.

As a consumer fully vested into the Apple ecosystem, I "could" enjoy
the advantages that the iPad brings to the overall computing
experience but I definitely would not enjoy the web experience that the
iPad currently will provide. (I can get by using the iPod Touch web
experience short term but on a large screen, I need the non
advertisement Flash content on most web sites.)

Heaven forbid ... I may have to buy a PC slate. (Actually, I think the
Courier slate "vaporware" concept is a better product concept than the
iPad but, unfortunately, it IS vaporware at this point and likely to
remain so.)

Still, the iPad's other features and the App store connection make a
potent statement. D*mn, there always is a "fly" in the ointment.
Back in the modem days, a Flash site meant I moved on. I've
been employed by folks who use it and it looked like a waste of
money. I believe it interposes between company and the visitor
who just wants to click a link, get the info, and move on.
Putting everything into Flash (and that's the way the Flash
designers advocate) also screws up Google censusing.

Any way, so what?

You have millions of new web consumers who are delivered via
Flash-phobic devices. Are you really going to play chicken with
them, or figure out the workaround?

And once you figured out the workaround, which, by the way,
works for everyone, are you really going to continue spending
money converting and maintaining your info as Flash?
0 Votes
+ -
I assume you mean HTML5. That's the workaround
that works for everyone?

Are you aware that IE6 has a 16% market share?
IE6 came out 9 years ago. Not even mentioning
IE7 and IE8 which together command a MAJORITY
of the market?

Now you'll say breathlessly, "but Google has
stopped supporting IE6".

Google stopped supporting Google Docs and
Google sites. How many people using IE6 are
using these? Or would even know what Google was
saying when it told them they are not
supporting IE6 any longer?

Grow with Flash. Embrace innovation. Cool new
things are fun!!!
0 Votes
+ -
Google announcement
oncall 1st Feb 2010
"We plan to begin phasing out support of these older browsers on the Google Docs suite and the Google Sites editor on March 1, 2010. After that point, certain functionality within these applications may have higher latency and may not work correctly in these older browsers. Later in 2010, we will start to phase out support for these browsers for Google Mail and Google Calendar."

Join the conversation!

Formatting +
BB Codes - Note: HTML is not supported in forums
  • [b] Bold [/b]
  • [i] Italic [/i]
  • [u] Underline [/u]
  • [s] Strikethrough [/s]
  • [q] "Quote" [/q]
  • [ol][*] 1. Ordered List [/ol]
  • [ul][*] · Unordered List [/ul]
  • [pre] Preformat [/pre]
  • [quote] "Blockquote" [/quote]
ie8 fix
Click Here
ie8 fix

The best of ZDNet, delivered

ZDNet Newsletters

Get the best of ZDNet delivered straight to your inbox

Facebook Activity

White Papers, Webcasts, & Resources
ie8 fix
ie8 fix