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Adrian Kingsley-Hughes
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Nokia: Using Android like 'peeing in your pants for warmth in winter'

By | September 21, 2010, 9:41am PDT

Summary: Sometimes people say the daftest things … This has to be the daftest quote of the month, from Nokia’s outgoing head of smartphones Anssi Vanjoki.

Sometimes people say the daftest things …

This has to be the daftest quote of the month, from Nokia’s outgoing head of smartphones Anssi Vanjoki (subscription required for full read):

Anssi Vanjoki, outgoing head of Nokia’s smartphone division, likens mobile phone makers that adopt Google’s software to Finnish boys who”pee in their pants” for warmth in the winter. Temporary relief is followed by an even worse predicament.

The argument that Vanjoki is making here is that handset makers are condemning themselves to permanent low profitability because the Android OS doesn’t allow manufacturers to differentiate their product from the competition. Fair point, and a criticism that can be leveled at the Microsoft mobile platform too.

Problem is, the flipside though is fragmentation. Nokia certainly has the clout to push its own mobile OS, but it’s an increasingly tough sell. Look at the profitability of PC OEMs compared to Apple, but you don’t see PC OEMs all making their own OSes … Taking an OS and fostering from that a platform takes time, effort, commitment, money and trust from developers.

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Winter, Nokia Corp., Android, Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology.

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Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

All opinions expressed on Hardware 2.0 are those of Adrian Kingsley-Hughes. Every effort is made to ensure that the information posted is accurate. If you have any comments, queries or corrections, please contact Adrian via the email link here. Any possible conflicts of interest will be posted below. [Updated: February 23, 2010] - Adrian Kingsley-Hughes has no business relationships, affiliations, investments, or other actual/potential conflicts of interest relating to the content posted so far on this blog.

Biography

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology -- whether that be by learning to program, building a PC from a pile of parts, or helping them get the most from their new MP3 player or digital camera.

Adrian has authored/co-authored technical books on a variety of topics, ranging from programming to building and maintaining PCs. His most recent books include "Build the Ultimate Custom PC", "Beginning Programming" and "The PC Doctor's Fix It Yourself Guide". He has also written training manuals that have been used by a number of Fortune 500 companies.

Adrian also runs a popular blog under the name The PC Doctor, where he covers a range of computer-related topics -- from security to repairing and upgrading.

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RE: Nokia: Using Android like 'peeing in your pants for warmth in winter'
littleboyjpkp 13th Dec 2010
Nokia will soon Pee in their pants,trouser and everywhere for Business.
View in thread
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I hope your pee-pee freeze up...
Snooki_smoosh_smoosh 21st Sep 2010
ROTFLMAO.
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RE: Nokia: Using Android like 'peeing in your pants for warmth in winter'
bmonsterman 21st Sep 2010
Yea...but Apple and Nokia will not fair much better. Any new feature by either will be copied by Android. Fierce competition is only going to make it better for consumers.
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RE: Nokia: Using Android like 'peeing in your pants for warmth in winter'
MG537 22nd Sep 2010
@bmonsterman
Plagiarism != competition. Just responding to your argument, not saying that the Android OS is a copy of iOS or Symbian.
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RE: Nokia: Using Android like 'peeing in your pants for warmth in winter'
JOHN_TUOHY Updated - 22nd Sep 2010
@bmonsterman I'd prefer to piss in my pants than have Nokis piss on my head.
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I guess we can see why he is an *outgoing* executive...
JonathonDoe 21st Sep 2010
if that is how he chooses to get his point across. If it is, in any way, indicative of his conversational tone then I would love to see him in a contentious board meeting. Yes, he must be quite the professional.

As always, just my $0.02 observing this absurd mess we call society and your opinion may well vary.

Regards,
Jon
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Though I don't agree with him...
colinnwn 21st Sep 2010
@JonathonDoe

I find his tone a very welcome change to the meaningless, spineless business speak that so many executives and marketing people spew at the public.

He is being very direct, casual, yet moderately assertive, without being combative or obnoxious. Now whether his assessment is correct and Nokia is able to execute his grand plan remains to be seen. If they fail, his comments will be just some (more colorful) marketing bluster.
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RE: Nokia: Using Android like 'peeing in your pants for warmth in winter'
rengek 22nd Sep 2010
@colinnwn
Its easy to be snarky adn not combative when there is nobody there for the counter point. If he had said that about apple and steve jobs was in the room......somehow I doubt there would be a friendly discussion.
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Outgoing
Robert Hahn 22nd Sep 2010
@JonathonDoe I agree. He should have said he was cautiously optimistic, and that he hoped to leverage the synergies of deep competence with best-of-breed first movers.
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RE: Nokia: Using Android like 'peeing in your pants for warmth in winter'
Gr8Music 22nd Sep 2010
@Robert Hahn - LMFAF!!!
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RE: Nokia: Using Android like 'peeing in your pants for warmth in winter'
Lackosleep 23rd Sep 2010
@Robert Hahn

And throw in that this current resorption of market capitulation will serve only to enhance our cognizance of outwardly expanding opportunities.
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i think HP agrees with Vanjoki..
doctorSpoc 21st Sep 2010
hence their purchase of Palm for WebOS..

if you don't have a mobile OS or don't have the in-house capability to produce one.. that is one thing, but if you do or you can buy such capability then it is short sighted to use an off the shelf OS.. because Vanjoki is right.. at the end of the day it will just be a race to the bottom and commoditization of your product with thin margins, exactly like exist in the PC computer market, where the only real differentiator is price.

this might be good for consumers (cheap phones), but is not that great for vendors.. vendors like HTC, Samgung etc are used to such markets but vendors like Motorola will be crushed in the long run.. at the end of the day there will be only 2-3 vendors producing android cell phones as the market will only support that number of vendors given the large ship volume necessary to make up for the thin margins..
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OEM's have chosen to take the race to bottom
Snooki_smoosh_smoosh Updated - 21st Sep 2010
@doctorSpoc... on economic computing. Of course their profits mean using low grade materials, and near slave labor workforce. And in order to get the economy of scale, they have to sell a huge number of units to even close to profitable.

If these OEM's had any brains they would return to a normal profit margin, which is yes a 30% profit margin, unfortunately like Apple they probably would still use the cheap workforces in Asia. But even there though some quality level materials and hopefully some better workmanship would lead to yes, a little more expensive products, but at least the product wouldn't fall apart after a year of use, like the crap Wal-mart sells.
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RE: Nokia: Using Android like 'peeing in your pants for warmth in winter'
wzrobin Updated - 22nd Sep 2010
@JM1981 You think achieving a 30% profit margin is simply a strategy choice???

The only company I know of that hits that kind of margin is Microsoft, and they do it via having a monopoly... companies would love to have a monopoly situation that allows for high profit margins, but can't because their competitors will eat them alive. Shaving price (and therefor margin) is the only way to survive, most people will buy the cheaper product that falls apart.

It's not companies that are driving this direction, it's consumers.
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Microsoft's margin is MUCH higher than 30%
matthew_maurice 22nd Sep 2010
@wzrobin But they're essentially a pure software company. The second copy of every piece of software they sell is arguably "profit."

The real reason that Apple can get away with a 30%+ margin in hardware is that they care about producing a high-quality product. Check out http://stagetwo.com/2010/09/the-real-secret-of-apples-product-philosophy/ Money quote: "We often hear that Apple 'plays the game' better than Sony, HP, Dell, etc ? that?s not quite right. Apple is playing an entirely different game. What?s most amazing about this? Nobody else seems to want to play with them, they just keep playing the 'other' game, and poorly."
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RE: Nokia: Using Android like 'peeing in your pants for warmth in winter'
Lackosleep 23rd Sep 2010
30% profit margin? add pharmaceuticals, insurance companies, and investment banking among others. They all operate in oligopolies with tremendous barriers to entry.
Consumer goods companies have long discovered that asthetic product attributes are what drive purchases... make it look nice and people overwhelmingly believe that equates to good quality. Hyundai couldn't have done a better job understanding this when they first entered the US auto market. But over time, the sentiment became negative and they spent years just trying to regain the confidence of the same market. Think how many avg Joes still believe Hyundai's are low quality even though the industry experts don't.
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Given past precedent
colinnwn 21st Sep 2010
@doctorSpoc

It is pretty hard to argue that ANY mobile phone manufacturer (besides Apple and maybe BB) has the in-house capability to produce a positively differentiated phone OS. Most of them are so pathetic that they are easily forgotten and orphaned after a couple years.

Much wiser I think both in the short and long term to use Android as a base, and create your own frontend. This is much easier to do from an engineering and interface prospective than to create a whole and desirable robust OS with app ecosystem.

If you do a good job, people will buy. If you do a bad job on the frontend, and lock your hardware to the firmware so people can't revert to generic Android, then people won't even buy your "differentiated commodity" product.
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RE: Nokia: Using Android like 'peeing in your pants for warmth in winter'
tkejlboom 22nd Sep 2010
@doctorSpoc

The motorola handset division would have already died without Android. Name one successful non-android phone they've made since the Razr.

2-3 vendors? Only happens in America. Only Americans expect just one company to somehow accrue ALL of the talent. In PC/laptops you have Dell, HP, Acer, Asus, Sony, BenQ, Samsung, Panasonic, Toshiba, and at least half a dozen others. The U.S. pays attention to Acer and HP because they're the top 2. Nonsense.
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Nokia still sucks...
jasonp@... 21st Sep 2010
so I guess we shouldn't expect more from the "outgoing head of Nokia?s smartphone division". Ten years ago, easily 9 out of 10 people I knew who had a cell phone had a Nokia. Today that number has dwindled to the point where I can't think of anyone who still has a Nokia. Lots of Motorolas. Lots of iPhones. Lots of HTCs. A few Blackberrys. Even a Samsung or two. No Nokias.
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that's only true in north america.. not the rest of the world...
doctorSpoc 21st Sep 2010
@jasonp@...
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RE: Nokia: Using Android like 'peeing in your pants for warmth in winter'
eMJayy 21st Sep 2010
That's still far better than Nokia's predicament - they're peeing in their pants all year long as the emerging markets (which is their bread and butter) begin to place their collective eye on touchscreen smartphones and apps ecosystems and away from the feature phones that they sell.

What Nokia clearly doesn't get is that things have now changed at the consumer end. In the past, Nokia and others could sell phones on the basis of their hardware capabilities alone and few gave any thought to the integrated OS on the device. These days, software (both OS and apps) on the phone is playing a much bigger role, and if you don't have or are not affiliated with a vibrant, visible software ecosystem that everyone wants to develop for, you're finished....or in Nokia's case, Finnished.
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Virtually every market eventually becomes ....
Economister 21st Sep 2010
a commodity market, unless the barriers to entry are very high. The corporations fight and b!tch to prevent it, but there is usually very little they can do about it. If you are making a lot of money in a market, there is always someone who would like a slice of that pie.
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Funny quote but so true...
dave95. Updated - 21st Sep 2010
Just take a look at the Android tablet market as an example. Soon places like walmart will be filled with cheap build cheap quality devices offering the same Android experience to customers. At very thin margins. It may not be a great experience but it's cheap and it runs Android. Other Android OEMs would have no choice but to cut back on cost, cut corners just to compete with the cheapo brands at walmart, as they all race to the bottom.
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Including Apple
John Zern 21st Sep 2010
dave95? I understand that their margings on the iPad are thinner then what they're usually accustomed to.

Would low cost Android (even Windows) tablets be enough to force apple into lowering the price even more?

They've actually lowered the cost of a few items in the past that they never had to before, and it wasn't because of lower manufacturing costs, as Apple takes a margin as far as it can run with it.

We'll have to wait and see. If competeing tablets do the same tricks, will it matter whats on the outside?
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Sure it will matter...
dave95. Updated - 21st Sep 2010
@John Zern

We could have asked the same question with iPods. If competing MP3 players all do the same trick (play music), did it matter what's on the outside?

iPods remained in that premium (yet not too expensive) price range, while their competitors battled each other at the lower end. But iPods continued to sell well because Apple were offering something different that they weren't, a total easy to use package (iPod + iTunes + Store). It was easy for consumers to grasp. Then Apple came in later and saturated the rest of the market with the lower costs Nano and Shuffle.

Apple could do the same with the iPad (and iPhone), in continuing to offer that total package, that total solution which consumers are able to easily grasps while remaining at somewhat a premium. i.e. no need to race to the bottom cutting corners like the others.
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RE: Nokia: Using Android like 'peeing in your pants for warmth in winter'
eMJayy 21st Sep 2010
@dave95
Not likely. You're forgetting that Apple's profits and their ability to sell the iPhone depends heavily on carrier subsidies. Once Android phones begins to deliver more data plan profits to the carriers because of their lower subsidy costs, carriers are going to be less willing to continue paying big subsidies to Apple. Apple will have to lower the cost of the iPhone or face a situation where carriers begin to abandon the iPhone in favor of making more money from Android contracts. Remember: Carriers are selling data contracts and related services, not phones.
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Apple's price
Robert Hahn 22nd Sep 2010
@John Zern Apple's price isn't that high. If you compare the 3G iPad to the Samsung Galaxy, and factor in the wireless charges (the Samsung is available in the US only with a 2-year contract), the iPad -- even with AT&T's 'no contract' wireless -- is actually cheaper. In Europe, where the carriers don't subsidize the hardware, the iPad price is lower than Samsung across the board. Will somebody we never heard of make some $299 knockoff? Sure, and there are people who will buy it. But those guys never dominate a market. Companies whose entire act is selling low-quality stuff cheaply never really make it with most people. If Samsung, with all their vertical integration in chips, displays, etc., cannot seriously undercut Apple... then no one can. I think the press just likes to foment "vendor wars" because it makes interesting reading. Whether there will actually be any wars is another question. I guarantee you that no member of the Wintel family (HP, Dell, etc.) ever wants to live that close to the cliff again. They'll take 'fragmented' over 'commodity' any day. Those guys all busted their butts while Microsoft and Intel made all the money. Never again.
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I laugh because
Dietrich T. Schmitz, ~ Your Linux Advocate 21st Sep 2010
My colleagues are using iPhones and are now complaining because their beloved iOS 4 is slowing their units to a crawl.

Myself, I still use a Nokia N95 (circa 2007) and it runs rings around the iPhone.

Too funny.
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RE: Nokia: Using Android like 'peeing in your pants for warmth in winter'
MG537 22nd Sep 2010
@Dietrich T. Schmitz, Your Linux Advocate
I laugh too because the argument of this blog was that Nokia should not give up its OS, so your N95 (circa 2007) should be safe. You however used the occasion, in your own special trollish way, to bash a company that somehow seems to threaten your existence.
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RE: Nokia: Using Android like 'peeing in your pants for warmth in winter'
ckharry@... 22nd Sep 2010
Apple has already proved him right - it sure takes time but working at own technology is the real differentiator that could confirm a business as a going concern.
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The Symbian OS is now open source too
PedroRa 22nd Sep 2010
I am confused.

Isn't Symbian - the OS inside all Nokia Smartphones - Open Source as well now?

That means any other vendor can also opt to use it in their units as well (I believe Sony does that, for example).

So where does that leave his statement?
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RE: Nokia: Using Android like 'peeing in your pants for warmth in winter'
Theseus 22nd Sep 2010
@PedroRa
It is open source, but Sony Ericsson (and Samsung) said that they weren't moving forward with any more Symbian devices. Sony's last one was the Vivaz, which only sold moderately and received terrible reviews.

Nokia is pretty much the only major manufacturer still using it, which makes it a de-facto proprietary OS.
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Nokia= Commodore/Atari
Theseus 22nd Sep 2010
What do they all have in common? All hardware makers who failed to see where the market was moving and were left behind in history's dustbin.
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Where the market is moving
Robert Hahn 22nd Sep 2010
@Theseus I wonder about that. To listen to this, everyone in the world wants a big honkin' smartphone with apps and a display large enough to read web pages. But I doubt that. I'll bet that ten years from now, there is still a market for over a billion -telephones- that don't play games, don't do the web, just do text-and-talk and are very small and light. It's hard to see how being King Of Smartphones would help any vendor dominate that market.
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RE: Nokia: Using Android like 'peeing in your pants for warmth in winter'
rcnut Updated - 22nd Sep 2010
Hmmm.... until last weekend, I actually hadn't seen anyone carrying a Nokia phone in so many years that I forgot the company was still around.
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Sorry but that line is ypical Corporate BS
BlueCollarCritic 22nd Sep 2010
"..the Android OS doesn?t allow manufacturers to differentiate their product from the competition. "

Sorry but this is just BS.

A manufacturer should distinguish themselves from their competition, and this applies in every business, by the quality of their product and not by its uniqueness or how proprietary it is.

Proprietary equals non-Interoperable and not ?better product?.

Auto manufacturers have been shafting the public for decades with this ?uniqueness? BS and its time they all started making themselves unique from others by the quality of what they make and not how unique and non-interoperable it is with anything else.
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RE: Nokia: Using Android like 'peeing in your pants for warmth in winter'
rickety_z 22nd Sep 2010
but Dave95 I don't think that is what has happened. There are still premium PCs that can be acquired and they use one of the standard OS offerings. I only see one brand that has its own OS. Yet they are not all lowest cost components, lowest feature mix etc. Sure the OS fees are a cost (like the chips that they buy) but provided that the cost is lower than developing your own and supporting your own, then the wider benefits of thousands of applications being available on the device can very well outweigh the OS cost component per device.
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I disagree with his oppinion
rarsa 22nd Sep 2010
the key here may very well be "different but compatible".

On the one hand one can point to Windows and see how different hardware vendors differentiated their products while using the same OS.

On the other we can see Linux where there is a large ecosystem of differentiated OSs that keep compatibility at the GNU and Kernel levels.

Going back to the time when each personal computer vendor had its own OS wouldn't be desirable at all.
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RE: Nokia: Using Android like 'peeing in your pants for warmth in winter'
mixer-fixer 22nd Sep 2010
Exactly what is so awful about the Android experience? I couldn't wait to get away from "i"everything. Plus Vanjoki's comment was down to earth and there is always room for that these days. Lighten up I say everybody... Is the user experience at the bottom of this market actually that awful? I think it's quite amazing really. Downhill run's to the bottom make for strong foundations. The growth and forming of which is still underway in this industry. Just my 0.02.................
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RE: Nokia: Using Android like 'peeing in your pants for warmth in winter'
snoop0x7b 22nd Sep 2010
"The argument that Vanjoki is making here is that handset makers are condemning themselves to permanent low profitability because the Android OS doesn?t allow manufacturers to differentiate their product from the competition. "

Bull. If that were the case why would Moto Blur and HTC Touch Sense be so profoundly different from eachother and the vanilla android rom. If anything Android allows the MOST customization for the manufacturer, Google is obligated by GPL to provide the manufacturer the sourcecode which means the manufacturer can do whatever they want.
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RE: Nokia: Using Android like 'peeing in your pants for warmth in winter'
ITOdeed 22nd Sep 2010
Wait a minute... Peeing in your pants could be a good thing if it will save your life until you find warmth that is close by. I've peed in my pants many times, and I'm still alive.
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RE: Nokia: Using Android like 'peeing in your pants for warmth in winter'
DeusXMachina 22nd Sep 2010
@Micromush
It won't. It is a simple matter of physics. You are releasing core body heat in a highly heat-convective fluid, thus lowering your body temperature even faster, as you trick your external sensory nerve endings into thinking everything is peachy.
Peeing your pants might be a good strategy if you are being chased by a predator, especially one that is pee-averse. It is NOT a good strategy to fend off the cold.
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RE: Nokia: Using Android like 'peeing in your pants for warmth in winter'
nickdangerthirdi@... 22nd Sep 2010
I think someone is feeling a bit left behind, seeing as Nokia hasnt had a decent phone since the late 90's, at least not released in the US, They did make a cool little mobile computer, but im not spending 400 bucks on a tiny laptop when I can get the real thing cheaper. and if they want to really charge the market, make a device that will run any mobile OS the users want, Symbian, Android, or WM7, of course they will make it so it really only runs Symbian well, because letting the free market decide on its own (which really means let the big corporations decide for you) works so great, look at how well Wall Street did when they deregulated it...
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RE: Nokia: Using Android like 'peeing in your pants for warmth in winter'
Robertinbellevue 22nd Sep 2010
Ha Ha Ha - So I guess he's trying to say that using a Nokia is like wearing a diaper? Surely something got lost in the translation.

I love my recently purchased Android phone and it's been a great experience so far. And certainly pleasant alternative to following the iPhone flock.
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RE: Nokia: Using Android like 'peeing in your pants for warmth in winter'
antliu@... 23rd Sep 2010
I think his words can be rephrased as:

Nokia has evaluated Android and found it is an OS that we can hardly win if we do not join its ecosystem. But if we are on the wagon, we have no idea about how we can make money besides selling the H/W.
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RE: Nokia: Using Android like 'peeing in your pants for warmth in winter'
littleboyjpkp 13th Dec 2010
Nokia will soon Pee in their pants,trouser and everywhere for Business.

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