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Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

UPDATE - HTC hits Apple with counter suit, asks ITC to block sales of iPhone, iPad and iPod

By | May 12, 2010, 10:54am PDT

Summary: Taiwanese handset maker HTC has hit back against Apple by filing a complaint with the International Trade Commission (ITC), claiming that the Cupertino giant is violating five of its patents.

Taiwanese handset maker HTC has hit back against Apple by filing a complaint with the International Trade Commission (ITC), claiming that the Cupertino giant is violating five of its patents.

Here’s a statement from HTC’s vice president of North America Jason Mackenzie:

“As the innovator of the original Windows Mobile PocketPC Phone Edition in 2002 and the first Android smartphone in 2008, HTC believes the industry should be driven by healthy competition and innovation that offer consumers the best, most accessible mobile experiences possible.  We are taking this action against Apple to protect our intellectual property, our industry partners, and most importantly our customers that use HTC phones.”

No word on what the five patents are.

HTC is asking the ITC to halt the importation and sale of the iPhone, iPad and iPod in the United States.

So that’s Apple, Nokia and HTC that have approached the ITC asking for competitors handsets to be halted in the US.

This is just getting silly. I know how to put an end to these endless lawsuits - the ITC should block the importation and sale of handsets by all three companies. I bet that these patent issues would be sorted out within hours if that happened.

UPDATE: Details of the infringements can be found here.

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Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology.

Disclosure

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

All opinions expressed on Hardware 2.0 are those of Adrian Kingsley-Hughes. Every effort is made to ensure that the information posted is accurate. If you have any comments, queries or corrections, please contact Adrian via the email link here. Any possible conflicts of interest will be posted below. [Updated: February 23, 2010] - Adrian Kingsley-Hughes has no business relationships, affiliations, investments, or other actual/potential conflicts of interest relating to the content posted so far on this blog.

Biography

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology -- whether that be by learning to program, building a PC from a pile of parts, or helping them get the most from their new MP3 player or digital camera.

Adrian has authored/co-authored technical books on a variety of topics, ranging from programming to building and maintaining PCs. His most recent books include "Build the Ultimate Custom PC", "Beginning Programming" and "The PC Doctor's Fix It Yourself Guide". He has also written training manuals that have been used by a number of Fortune 500 companies.

Adrian also runs a popular blog under the name The PC Doctor, where he covers a range of computer-related topics -- from security to repairing and upgrading.

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@ wolf_z
dougogd@... Updated - 14th May 2010
@ wolf_z. So you think patents are a bad Idea. Do you also think that it is a bad idea to get paid for your work. This is the only thing that patents are for to ensure the owner of the patent gets paid for their work. Work for nothing see how long you survive. This new page sucks.
There is no way to dance around it.
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Apple is the one that did the stealing
NonZealot Updated - 12th May 2010
HTC's full screen touch screen gesture enabled cell phone came out before Apple's. There is one thing we can't dance our way around though and that is that Apple has a lot of money to pay legal fees. In this world, money can buy a lot of "justice" and kill a lot of healthy competition. Just ask Psystar. Oh, wait, you can't.
@NonZealot: also, with the amount of money HTC has it is already irrelevant how much Apple richier than HTC. Because there is no way to spend any more money than HTC already can now.
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HTC's UI was stylus-, not finger-based; so it is irrelevant

TouchFlo, HTC's finger based gesture UI did not require the use of a stylus. It supported the stylus but did not require it. I know, I own an HTC phone and rarely use the stylus. I'll bet you've never even seen an HTC phone in action. I've used the iPhone and while I can appreciate why idiots fall for it, the truth is that it still isn't as good as my 1.5 year old HTC Touch Diamond. happy
  • Flagged
Just because someone is the first to implement an obvious extension to something doesn't mean they should be given a monopoly!
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Apple is a late comer to Cell phone UI interfaces
Uralbas Updated - 12th May 2010
If HTC prevails, Apple's value sinks.

We now just need MS to jump in the ball game.
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MS would do best to stay out of it
NonZealot 12th May 2010
What HTC needs is the hearts and minds of the public. They are David, Apple is Goliath. Apple has received a lot of bad press with their evil, anti-competitive moves lately. They are trying to make up for it by paying bloggers on ZDNet and other sites to write positive things but they have so far been unsuccessful at totally suppressing the truth. People's eyes are being opened and having MS jump into HTC's corner would distract people from what is actually going on.
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Did you ever work in the Bush Administration?
Snooki_smoosh_smoosh Updated - 12th May 2010
@NonZealot: Their Evil devil
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@Uralbas: Newton development started in 1987, first multipointer (multitouch) experiments in 1986.

There is no way HTC can prevail -- they can not even name those five patents on this stage because otherwise the world will see that they grasping at straws.
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History does not support your case
NonZealot 12th May 2010
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pen_computing

Newton was just another in a long line of pen computing devices. Again, Apple copied!

Now, I do find it extremely interesting how above, you make a huge distinction between finger based UIs and stylus based UIs when trying to suggest that the HTC Touch doesn't count and here, you try to suggest that Apple is the pioneer because of their stylus based Newton!!!!!!!! So which is it?

Apple had neither the first pen based computer, nor the first finger based UI. Either way, you lose. happy
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@denisrs and Apple took that technology away from it.

Rockwell has patents dating back to the 70s when Apple didnt exist. So please.
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So tell us...
wolf_z 13th May 2010
@denisrs

...how long you've worked for Apple?

See how easy it is when you have no facts, only wishful thinking? Software patents are a stupid idea, and this current mess demonstrates exactly why.

Nobody stole anything. Each of them developed their own ideas (for an obvious interface solution) and each of them claimed monopoly on those ideas.

Now, if you think monopoly=evil why do patents=good?
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@wolf_z Agreed for once.
AzuMao Updated - 13th May 2010
Patents shouldn't be granted for vague, general, abstract concepts or mathematical formulae. Then, things like MS's patent on "restriction of software and hardware", whoever's patent on "click on the screen to do stuff" and patents on software (which is just a bunch of math) would all be void and nil.
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All I am gonna say is
bobiroc 12th May 2010
if Apple is guilty in violating these patents then they deserve what they get. Also if they are guilty in using these patents without compensation then maybe that is why Apple can rake in the profits. Because they steal the technology without paying for its use or development.
@bobiroc: Also, patent infringement does not automatically mean stealing at all. Any manufacturer can infringe patents (especially those obscure general ones) developing its own products, having no idea that something what they do is patented.

It is not the case, however, with other mobile OS vendors stealing Apple's capacitive touch-screen UI. This one is theft as clear as day -- Google et al should be punished.
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Oh, one more thing...
NonZealot 12th May 2010
GO HTC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
happy
This is just part of the technology business world. Everyone just has to get over it. Not sure why AK-H thinks the lawsuits have to end.

If Apple violated HTC patents, then it has to be dealt with. If HTC violated Apple patents, then that has to be dealt with, too. It could be that both companies are violating each other's patents!

Just let it play out in the courts.
@RationalGuy
That's ridiculous. My opinion: Death to patents!!
All this does is make the lawyers richer. They are pushed by lawyers for lawyers.
If Apple can take your "idea" - and it is ONLY an idea!!! - they didn't take HTC's code and alter it!! - then make the idea better, then they should darn well be able to do that!
If Microsoft decides to patent the technique I use to take a crap in the morning, does that mean I have to pay them royalties every time I relieve myself??
Come one!! Enough of this!
Death to patents!
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Wrong.
Rama.NET 12th May 2010
@rossdav@...
If there are no IPs, all the big companies would steal ideas from small ones and swallow those. Take i4i Vs. Microsoft, if there were no IPs at all, i4i wouldn't be there now.
>>If Microsoft decides to patent the technique I use to take a crap in the morning, does that mean I have to pay them royalties every time I relieve myself??
Come one!! Enough of this!

Sorry, your hatred towards Microsoft is making your crap to come out of your mouth. wink
--Ram--
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@Rama.NET And your point is?
Sephoroth Updated - 12th May 2010
"If there are no IPs, all the big companies would steal ideas from small ones and swallow those."
They still wouldn't be able to steal code (I'm not discouraging use of copyrights) and would have to spend time/effort developing it and hence incentive (even if to a lesser extent than now) would still be present to either buy the smaller company (as commonly done now) or license such software. Just as larger companies can use concepts "influenced" by larger ones, smaller companies will be able to use concepts "influenced" by larger ones. As far as I'm concerned, the presence of such patents serve as a barrier to entrance within a market and reduce competition rather than promote it.

"Take i4i Vs. Microsoft, if there were no IPs at all, i4i wouldn't be there now."
I don't see an issue with that.

EDIT: Note my above statements are only held in relation to software patents. I see how patents can be useful in other markets.

REEDIT: Fixed poor wording.
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Um, because we pay
RedM3 12th May 2010
@RationalGuy
Who do you think ultimately pays for the lawsuites? DUH! Also the way our court system works it's the richest who wins not the righteous. This is how big companies squash little companies. Steve Jobs is the biggest hypocrite I can think of in the tech industry. How can that whining beotch complain about Adobe being proprietary and still look himself in the mirror?
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Wrong. Wrong. Wrong
Rama.NET Updated - 12th May 2010
@RedM3 :
>>
i4i Vs. Microsoft, guess who won, hint: not Microsoft.
Take antitrust cases against Standard Oil, AT&T, IBM, Microsoft, what is the outcome.
Standard Oil is no more. Ma Bell (AT&T) had been broken into many, IBM and Microsoft paid bigtime.
--Ram--
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Um, you might pay more otherwise
RationalGuy Updated - 12th May 2010
@RedM3

If what you say is really true, then there would surely be by this point just one giant monopolistic company that would run everything. They could simply gobble up their competitors or sue them into submission. Then you'd pay whatever they wanted to charge. Remember the old AT&T?

The world doesn't really work that way, though. Companies solve disputes through the court system, and it's just a part of doing business. All operational expenses are part of the cost of a company's products. How could it be otherwise?

Steve Jobs isn't hypocritical at all. He said Flash is proprietary and a buggy piece of crap and that HTML5 is better alternative because it's an open standard. That's all true. While the App Store is a walled garden, Safari supports open standards, and web app development is wide open for the iPhone OS. He supports an open web platform and is totally consistent about it.

Adobe on the other hand says that they want an open web, and that means their proprietary plug-in. If that's not hypocrisy, then it's just plain nonsense.
@nonzealot
Sounds like sour grapes NonZealot....I as a consumer could care less who invented what. I'm tired of seeing all these ridiculous suits and counter-suits in the news. I don't care how much competition there is out there and personally love my iphone and will continue to use it despite people like you trying to convince us "idiots" how wrong we are for buying apple. So unless you actually have a stake in the HTC phone, which i have never used and don't intend to, what does it matter. Please don't go off giving us this speech about equality and the American way. If you actually believe tat HTC is sueing to help it's loyal customers then you're the one who is an idiot. All this is money based and has nothing to do with me as a consumer...now that is a fact! I own an Ipad, Iphone and Ipod and I use Microsoft operating system run PC's...go figure. I had an MS based phone and it sucked...always getting locked up..only thing missing was the BSOD. Oh BTW, if these suits do go forward and prevent any of these companies from importing their product the only person getting hurt is the consumer.
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@az49erfn
Rama.NET 12th May 2010
@az49erfn
Tsk, Tsk, Tsk, where were you when Microsoft was sued by i4i? Where were you when Intel and Microsoft were forced to pay huge American money to Europe for no good reason other than making the EU rich? IPs should be there. If you are not interested in knowing about what happens, just close your ears and eyes. It is that simple.
--Ram--
@Rama.NET
Well what it comes down to is that i'm just tired of hearing about these lawsuits. Can i do anything about them..hmm...not really, but they are big news i guess to some people. Why doesn't Apple jsut buy them out? I mean it seems like we are heading back towards monoplies in the technology area anyway...almost down to two major phone comapnies, two major chip makers that matter, one sattelite company that matters...
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Maybe just everyone cut Steve a cheque, to buy...
Feldwebel Wolfenstool 12th May 2010
...a spoonful of digital freedom and finally cut the Jobsian Knot.
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Total non-story
matthew_maurice 12th May 2010
Of course they countersued. DUH! And they'll probably amend their complaint when the next gen iPhone is released in July. Just like Apple will do when the next HTC model comes out. That's the way these things work. In 5 years or so, after a mountain of motions, depositions, and amicus briefs, a trial will start and we'll see how this shakes out. Of course a lot may happen before then, so any predictions other than a lot of lawyers becoming wealthy is pointless.
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@Nonzealot: Psystar wasn't healthy competition they were violating clearly laid out license terms trying to profit from Apple's work so why even bring that up or were you not clear on it?
@coyodel

"Psystar wasn't healthy competition they were violating clearly laid out license terms trying to profit from Apple's work so why even bring that up or were you not clear on it?"

That's assuming you accept EULAs have the ability to tell you how to use products you have purchased (and yes, the buy/rent argument over software is a given).

Personally, the whole EULA concept strikes me as the most successful con job in American history.
i got three htc phones from at&t last contract renewal. Junk. When a company puts out a product with proprietary cable attachments and the phones fail, they lose me as a customer forever. One kid has gone back to an old nokia and one kid has gone back to an old nokia. 1 phone continues to be frustratingly struggled with by another family member. Other phones we have include the iphone and blackberry and motorola. Sorry, but I do not believe htc can produce a valid patent and I know they cannot product a decent phone.
Whether or not what HTC is true, I'm not surprised Apple is on the other end. But I don't think HTC can get ITC to halt sales. That's like Steve Jobs asking Microsoft to create IE for the iPhone. happy
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@ wolf_z
dougogd@... Updated - 14th May 2010
@ wolf_z. So you think patents are a bad Idea. Do you also think that it is a bad idea to get paid for your work. This is the only thing that patents are for to ensure the owner of the patent gets paid for their work. Work for nothing see how long you survive. This new page sucks.

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