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Hardware 2.0

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Users won't care about iPhone keyboard usability

By | June 8, 2007, 4:13am PDT

Each time I look at something related to the iPhone, I keep coming back to one aspect of the device I don’t like - the onscreen keyboard.  As much as I think that the glass-topped software-powered keyboard on the iPhone looks cool, I keep coming back the one thing that’s important about a keyboard to me - usability.  iPhoneDo I think that the iPhone’s keyboard is going to be an efficient input device?  No.  Is this going to mean that Apple is going to have a hard time selling iPhones?  Probably not.

Selling someone their first iPhone is going to be easier than selling them an upgrade in a couple of yearsFor me, the main point of a keyboard is to allow me to input data quickly and efficiently.  I don’t like the idea of screwing around with a critical input device just for the sake of simplification and making it cool.  The trade-off just isn’t worth it.  You can have the best, coolest, most fully-featured device in the world, but if you can’t get information into it, it’s really nothing more than a fancy paperweight.  For me, any company that claims to have come up with a new, innovative, easy to use keyboard on the first attempt makes me wary.  When I need to pay $500+ and sign-up to a 2 year contract to discover just how easy to use that revolutionary new system is, it’s a total deal-breaker.  Pass, I’ll wait and see what the next version has to offer.  That’s why I can still be excited about the technology crammed into the iPhone and yet at the same time give it a wide berth.

But will the lack of a usable keyboard on the iPhone cripple Apple’s dream gadget?  No, it won’t.  Why?  Because the people who will be the early adopters are buying a feeling they’ve been sold.  I remember the owner of a publishing company once telling me that they could happily ship out books where everything past the first chapter was replaced by a block of styrofoam and most people wouldn’t notice (and it would be profitable, even if they had to overnight a proper book to everyone who complained).  Folks in the publishing industry know that many of their customers never read past the first chapter.  Folks in the cellphone industry know that many of their customers never use anything other than the most basic of features on their cellphone. 

A great many of those who become early adopters of the iPhone will be buying it because of the Apple logo and the marketing hype.  Just like the book could be mostly styrofoam, the iPhone’s interface could be mostly made up of placeholders and screenshots mockups and I’m certain that many wouldn’t notice or care. John C. Dvorak claims to have an insider tip that as many as 20% of iPhones will be returned because of the keyboard.  I don’t believe it.  The iPhone is going to be another Apple success (not on the scale of 10 million in a year - Steve might have to do some explaining to stockholders on that one later …) but it’ll be a success nonetheless.  What might be a far more serious problem for Apple is keeping the momentum going.  Selling someone their first iPhone is going to be easier than selling them an upgrade in a couple of years.

There is, however, a certain “Apple logic” behind the iPhone’s keyboard.  From a stylistic perspective, the use of an on-screen software keyboard means that the iPhone can be sleek and simple.  Apple hates having too many buttons on anything.  The on-screen keyboard means fewer physical buttons.  From a functionality point of view, no physical keyboard means that the iPhone can have a larger screen (although for anything but the most basic web surfing, it’s still too small).

Thoughts?

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Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology.

Disclosure

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

All opinions expressed on Hardware 2.0 are those of Adrian Kingsley-Hughes. Every effort is made to ensure that the information posted is accurate. If you have any comments, queries or corrections, please contact Adrian via the email link here. Any possible conflicts of interest will be posted below. [Updated: February 23, 2010] - Adrian Kingsley-Hughes has no business relationships, affiliations, investments, or other actual/potential conflicts of interest relating to the content posted so far on this blog.

Biography

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Adrian Kingsley-Hughes is an internationally published technology author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology -- whether that be by learning to program, building a PC from a pile of parts, or helping them get the most from their new MP3 player or digital camera.

Adrian has authored/co-authored technical books on a variety of topics, ranging from programming to building and maintaining PCs. His most recent books include "Build the Ultimate Custom PC", "Beginning Programming" and "The PC Doctor's Fix It Yourself Guide". He has also written training manuals that have been used by a number of Fortune 500 companies.

Adrian also runs a popular blog under the name The PC Doctor, where he covers a range of computer-related topics -- from security to repairing and upgrading.

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RE: Users won't care about iPhone keyboard usability
jacobvanhorn@... 31st Jan 2008
I am faster on the iPhone keyboard than I ever was on a alphanumeric or a qwerty. I have used several Nokia's (all alphanumeric) in the past and with the predictive text indicator I could go pretty quickly. (Nokia's are the hardiest phones I have ever owned also)

I tried the AT&T Tilt for 30 days because of everything it promised to do. But the keyboard was hard for me to type on and the stylus/on-screen keyboard combo was also slow for me. I always had to use two hands also which I didn't like sometimes. The phone battery also died everyday by 3pm. Primarily due to 3G and bluetooth usage. I set my email settings more infrequently so as to save battery life. And the AT&T reps said to stop using bluetooth. What the heck!! This is a phone marketed to professionals and they are telling me to not use a standard accessory!

I took it back and bought the iPhone. I didn't want to. I am generally an Apple hater (except for my beloved 60GB video iPod). I hate that you can't have an expandable memory card slot. I hate that it only has 16GB on board memory. I also hate that it is stuck with EDGE. I hate that I can't store docs on it. But what it does, it does really well. EDGE has been better than I remembered from previous EDGE phones. I have learned to change my music/podcasts syncing habits. I have also learned to better use Google docs and to use gmail to email myself important docs. I just store them as attachments. I also initially hated that I couldn't sync with MS Exchange, but the Google IMAP workaround is fine.

And as for typing, I can go pretty freaking fast. The secret is in knowing your keyboard and then trusting Apples auto-correct feature. I just go for it and don't look back. Occasionally I go back and fix something, but not very often.

I use the phone a lot, I send and check email way too often to be healthy and I listen to music/podcast a couple hours a day. And my battery has never died on me.

It doesn't do everything, but what it does, it does well. Now if I could get them to consider cut and paste.
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... and others who think that "cool" is more important than "useful".

Ever see a website that a graphic designer has been let loose on? All graphics, probably Flash, and never more than about six words on the whole page. It is all about impressing the user, not about telling them anything useful. Google indexing? Who cares as long as it *looks* good????

For those for whom this is the epitome of "cool", they'll buy iPhones as fas as lemmings go over a cliff and with the same amount of forethought.
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Cool doesn't enter into it
tic swayback 8th Jun 2007
Read my post below, you, like Adrian, have completely missed the point of the interface. Just because you don't understand something, that doesn't mean you should find it threatening and lash out at it. Instead, why not investigate it, and try to understand the real motivations behind the virtual keyboard. Hint: it's about having multiple interfaces for multiple activities on a convergence device.
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Captures the imagination doesn't it?
Cornhead 8th Jun 2007
Let's face it, those same graphics designers keep the world interesting and give us such creations as the Matrix. I gotta admit that I dread a world filled with text editors and command lines, and No, the solution IS NOT the GUI!

I recently purchased a digital editing suite and spent an hour cutting, editing, and mixing to create ~60 seconds worth of home video. I gotta admit it looks great, but I now have a new found appreciation for the effort that goes into "content creation."

Plus you roundly criticize all graphic designers as hacks when the truth is that the really professional designers will create compelling art that complements the content rather than get in the way. These are the websites that have a polished professional look and sell a product/idea. Not many individuals consciously know the difference, but it's worth its weight in gold.
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No it doesn't
bportlock 8th Jun 2007
"Let's face it, those same graphics designers keep the world interesting "

Huh???


"Plus you roundly criticize all graphic designers as hacks"

I can only judge by those I've come across. They seem to be one step short of being OCD sufferers. Attention to *irrelevant* detail that borders on autistic whilst not seeming to realise that there's a bigger picture involved.


"the truth is that the really professional designers will create compelling art"

Have you seen that design travesty that passes for the London 2012 Olympics logo? It does nothing for the Olympics but it might win them the adulation of their peers.



"These are the websites that have a polished professional look and sell a product/idea. Not many individuals consciously know the difference, but it's worth its weight in gold."

Fair enough.
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Too bad...
Cornhead 8th Jun 2007
"I can only judge judge by those I've come across."

Among behavioral psychologists, you suffer from representativeness bias. But before you criticize behavioral psychologists realize that the individuals who identified these judgment heuristics received a Nobel Prize in Economics for their work, unless you find the Nobel Prize distasteful as well.
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LOL! Touche!
bportlock 8th Jun 2007
"Among behavioral psychologists, you suffer from representativeness bias"

Don't we all! If none of us suffered such things we would live in a perfect world free of racism and bias. Admittedly that would not be a bad thing, but we're all imperfectly human - especially on Friday afternoons!

I hope you enjoy your creative endeavours and if you can improve on the London Olympic logo then please do so. If you fancy another challenge posed by a different poster, then make Audis look like cars.

I will happily admit that some graphic designer must lack the near-crippling compulsions of those I have come across, since if engineers and scientists ruled the world, chairs would be bare metal and riveted together! Fair enough?



"But before you criticize behavioral psychologists realize that the individuals who identified these judgment heuristics received a Nobel Prize in Economics for their work, unless you find the Nobel Prize distasteful as well."

I find the Nobel prizes good in concept but somewhat lacking in implementation. There have been instances of women not being awarded when they deserved it, students whose advisor won the prize for the student's work and out of a group of collabarators, not all of them get the prize.

There is also something mildly ironic about a peace being funded from the legacy of a man who invented dynamite!
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FWIW, I graduated summa cum laude with an engineering degree, so I am well acquainted with the nuts and bolts practicality of the engineering ethos.

However, after many years I am starting to discover my inner non-engineer. It has been an interesting and delightful journey and to be honest I feel more human as a result. It has led me to being very impressed with Steve Jobs and Apple and the Adobe products (beyond Acrobat Reader).

As for the Nobel Prize, it is not everyday that a psychologist wins one in Economics. How's that for implementation!
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Censored!
Cornhead 8th Jun 2007
Wow! My post got censored! How embarrassing!
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Good for you
bportlock 8th Jun 2007
I'm glad you didn't get upset! It's Friday, I've got some dull stuff to do and I felt like a rant!
Do you have any idea how many millions of dollars are effected by that ?irrelevant detail??

Do you have any idea of the hundreds and hundreds of interactions that take place between the client and the designer to get just the correct look ? to grab the customer eye ? to create public awareness ? to enforce the message of the product/service?

Do you know that the graphics team might submit 50 ideas to a client, with an explanation of the strengths/weakness of each?

Do you have any idea about the focus groups that used to judge those various ideas so as to get an idea of how the public will respond?

Do you have any idea about the fact that the design needs the ability to be reproduced at virtually any size, for different media formats, at the same exact color, in various languages (without offending local custom) and still maintain full detail and message strength?

So yeah, the graphics folks are concerned with minutiae that would never occur to you ? because millions and millions of dollars are dependent on the design ? and the clients know that.
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Once again...
tic swayback 8th Jun 2007
...just because you don't understand something, that doesn't mean you should lash out at it. Because you've met a few graphic designers who you had personal problems with does not negate the value of good design. I would suggest learning more about the subject (the works of Edward Tufte would be a good starting point), rather than trying to dismiss an important field based on a few bad examples.
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Hmmm.... how do I respond?
massiv_design 8th Jun 2007
You obviously like to make grand assumptions and ridiculous charges. Who do you think designs most websites that meet your standards? Graphic designers! A good graphic designer creates the mock-up and then the code is implemented, along with all other technical provisions. And there are plenty of designers that do the coding and development also. How do you think an Audi is created? 100% all by the engineers? Of course not. The engineers take care of what's under the hood and the "designers" make the whole package look appealing to the market they are targeting. You obviously have little knowledge of the field where you are making your assertions. Good luck with that pessimistic and ignorant outlook you got there. It will get you far in life and admired by all of your peers.
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"You obviously like to make grand assumptions and ridiculous charges."

Well - there's no point in making little niggly comments when you can have sweeping assumptions.... I mean, there's no comparison!


"How do you think an Audi is created?"

On a production line - a chap called "Ford" invented it.



"100% all by the engineers? Of course not. The engineers take care of what's under the hood and the "designers" make the whole package look appealing to the market they are targeting"

You gotta be kidding me! You think an Audi looks "stylish"? It's a tank of a car. A brick with a wheel at each corner!
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The point still stands.
massiv_design 8th Jun 2007
Who cares what car we are referring too. The basis of my argument was not around the Audi itself but the process of its development. One's preference of the aesthetics of an automobile is purely subjective. Am I wrong? Your response further proves your inability to look beyond your own self-importance. Thanks for the help in my argument. =)

I am done now. You have wasted too much of my time as it is.
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bportlock:

"You obviously like to make grand assumptions and ridiculous charges."

"Well - there's no point in making little niggly comments when you can have sweeping assumptions.... I mean, there's no comparison!"

Absolutely! And you made my day with that comment!


"How do you think an Audi is created?"

"On a production line - a chap called "Ford" invented it."

Close, but no cigar. Henry didn't invent the production line, he made it work efficiently for his purposes.


"You gotta be kidding me! You think an Audi looks "stylish"? It's a tank of a car. A brick with a wheel at each corner!"

I find Audis to be relatively attractive. OTOH, I find the current BMW line to be relatively unattractive. Chris Bangle should be put up against a wall and shot. But then, what do I know? I think the Chrysler 300 is a handsome car...for a brick with a wheel at each corner.

happy
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Uninformed
GardeAvant 8th Jun 2007
I don't know what graphic designers you work with but that's the description of a BAD designer, just as bad as a developer that write's bloated code and thinks as long as it works somehow its okay. Good design is when form and function melt together, not your view of adding gratuitous elements to heighten the cool factor.
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Imagine that!
Letophoro 8th Jun 2007
"Folks in the cellphone industry know that many of their customers never use anything other than the most basic of features on their cellphone."

Who'd have thought that people would just use their phone as a phone? For those people, having a graphical vs physical keyboard is irrelevant. All they want to do is dial numbers, and the virtual keyboard will work just fine.

For those that use their phones for everything under the sun, the virtual keys may be something of a hindrance, but not significantly more than using the physical keys.

In short, the iPhone's virtual keys will be no less usable than the current physical keys found on phones now, and may be something of an improvement.
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Pretending this is something new
NonZealot 8th Jun 2007
For those that use their phones for everything under the sun, the virtual keys may be something of a hindrance, but not significantly more than using the physical keys.

Everyone seems to forget that Apple is not the one to have innovated the virtual keyboard. My 4 year old PocketPC has a virtual keyboard and there is no way anyone could use it to type as fast as I've seen people type on their physical keyboards... not even close. Oh right, the Apple keyboard will be different... because it's Apple... YEAH!

In short, the iPhone's virtual keys will be no less usable than the current physical keys found on phones now, and may be something of an improvement.

Not for typing it won't. I'm a fan of virtual keyboards because it gives me the biggest screen possible in the smallest package possible but the reality distortion field doesn't affect me so much that I'd ever suggest the virtual keyboard is an improvement on the physical keyboard when it comes to data entry. The Cult is strong in you!
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What are you blathering on about?
Letophoro 8th Jun 2007
"Everyone seems to forget that Apple is not the one to have innovated the virtual keyboard. My 4 year old PocketPC has a virtual keyboard and there is no way anyone could use it to type as fast as I've seen people type on their physical keyboards... not even close. Oh right, the Apple keyboard will be different... because it's Apple... YEAH!"

How are virtual keys going to be any worse than pressing '6' three times to get an 'o' into a word? Your comparison of PC keyboard to a virtual keyboard is not relevant since that is not the topic under discussion. It's phone keypads to virtual keys that you should be comparing. Is it worse to press a virtual '6' instead of a physical '6'?

"Not for typing it won't. I'm a fan of virtual keyboards because it gives me the biggest screen possible in the smallest package possible but the reality distortion field doesn't affect me so much that I'd ever suggest the virtual keyboard is an improvement on the physical keyboard when it comes to data entry."

Did I say it was an improvement? No, I didn't. I said it may be an improvement. The only way to find out is to try the thing and see if it's better or worse than using the keypad on your current cell phone. Better or worse, I wouldn't use a phone keypad or a virtual keypad or a virtual keyboard to do any serious typing. That's what keyboards are for.

"The Cult is strong in you!"
I'd ask what cult that is, but history has shown what your belief system is. Basically, your position is: "If you don't pathologically hate everything Apple makes and does, then you're an Apple zealot."
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they obviously haven't used a cell phone in the last 10 years.

How are virtual keys going to be any worse than pressing '6' three times to get an 'o' into a word?

Tegic's T9 (or equivalent) which is on most phones now allow you to type 4-3-5-5-6 to get 'hello'. It is very good and I've seen people get amazing WPM out of them. T9 was released in 1995 so you are about 12 years out of date.

Your comparison of PC keyboard to a virtual keyboard is not relevant

Had I been comparing it to a PC keyboard, you would have a point. I don't know if you've heard of a little company called RIM and a little product called Blackberry. It has a full, physical keyboard on it and that is what I was comparing the virtual keyboard to. Again, people get incredible WPM out of them. If you want a bigger keyboard in a phone that is smaller than the iPhone (that thing is going to be huge), check out phones like the S710 or the P4350 which both have larger keyboards that slide out sideways. The iPhone simply can't compete.

Better or worse, I wouldn't use a phone keypad or a virtual keypad or a virtual keyboard to do any serious typing. That's what keyboards are for.

Yes, so ditch the iPhone and buy an HTC... unless of course this suddenly isn't such a big requirement? Apple zealots are usually pretty quick to arbitrarily change their requirements as they are made aware of superior non-Apple alternatives.
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Doesn't the HTC...
msalzberg 8th Jun 2007
have a virtual keyboard also? Except, of course, you have to use a stylus to type on
it. Do you consider this innovative? For $670, I'd expect more than that. Actually,
add $10 for a vritual keyboard that doesn't require a stylus.
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It has both
NonZealot 8th Jun 2007
Except, of course, you have to use a stylus to type on it.

Why would you use the virtual keyboard when you have a physical keyboard available?

Besides, if you really wanted to use a virtual keyboard with your fingers, there are 3rd party tools that give you that ability. I'm sorry, you probably don't know what a third party tool is considering the iDumbPhone will prevent you from installing any! HAHAHAHA!!
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I was speaking of the HTC Touch..
msalzberg 8th Jun 2007
which has no physical keyboard.

To get a keyboard that doesn't require a stylus requires additional $$$, over the
original $670 cost of the phone. And even then, I need to use a stylus to bring up
the keyboard that doesn't use a stylus.

I know that this seems innovative to you, but not to me.
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msalzberg: How do you know?
NonZealot 8th Jun 2007
I was speaking of the HTC Touch..
which has no physical keyboard.


How do you know it has no keyboard? Do you have one? How is that possible since you are on the record as saying that it hasn't been released yet. Aren't you the one who said you can't comment on anything you haven't used? Please refrain from commenting on what the HTC Touch can and cannot do since you don't own one. If you continue to comment on it, you admit that you are no better than me and you think I'm pretty bad, don't you?

And even then, I need to use a stylus to bring up the keyboard that doesn't use a stylus.

Again, how do you know? You've never tried one so you don't know that you need a stylus to bring up the keyboard.

OUCH!!!!!!! Sucks when someone uses your screwed up logic against you. happy
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I highly doubt
Michael Kelly 8th Jun 2007
that people will be using an iPhone to key in cash receipts or CRM. They'll be using it for simple e-mail and texting. You need to compare it to a Blackberry, not a workstation.
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I am
NonZealot 8th Jun 2007
You need to compare it to a Blackberry, not a workstation.

See my reply above. The Blackberry (and many other phones) has a physical keyboard and in the context of the post, why would people think I was switching topics and talking about PC keyboards? Do I need to state that Blackberry, in this context, is a phone made by RIM and not a berry found in nature? Context people... context.
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You're assuming the input is going to suck
Michael Kelly 8th Jun 2007
And it may well be as bad as you think, and I can certainly understand why one would assume it would suck given the current products on the market. But until we can actually try it out, we can speculate all we want but it's probably not best to make our final decisions until we can try out a floor model and see if it is like everything else that's out there, or whether there really are some breakthroughs that make this the first software touchscreen worth using.

My guess is that as usual it will be better than what's on the market but not as good as advertised. What I don't know is whether this will be good enough or not.
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Michael:

I must state up-front that I have no interest in purchasing an iPhone.

That having been said...why hasn't Apple demonstrated text entry in its series of iPhone commercials? Granted, it's not as "sexy" as flipping through your iTunes collection, or finding a squid shop in SanFran. But since they *do* show the hand model selecting and displaying an email with attached pictures...

Methinks that the iPhone's keyboard is going to be less useful (initially) than that of a regular smartphone. But those who end up purchasing and using the beasts will get used to it.
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And more importantly...
NonZealot 8th Jun 2007
But those who end up purchasing and using the beasts will get used to it.

They will apologize for it. Their requirements will change so that text input all of a sudden isn't that important. This goes beyond getting used to it and into the realm of fooling themselves into believing it was what they wanted all along.
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re: And more importantly...
M.R. Kennedy 9th Jun 2007
NonZealot:

No, they won't "apologize" for it. After all, those people who currently do *not* use smartphones and who *do* a huge amount of texting are able to do so with little trouble. Those who use smartphones (or at least the equivalent of the Moto Q, Blackberry, and/or Palm Treo) have an easier time of it.

As I said, texting-centric people who move over to the iPhone will get used to its virtual keyboard. The lack of tactile feedback will raise the learning curve, but it won't be insurmountable.

It will also be interesting to see how answering e-mails (via the virtual keyboard) will work, especially when reviewing what the user is responding to and what he/she is writing.

And, just how large (in physical terms) *is* that virtual keyboard on the iPhone? Ham-fingered people like myself will probably have trouble with it. That's only one reason why an alternative smartphone, with a separate keyboard that is *not* part of the display is more appealing to me.
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Another one out of the park Adrian!
NonZealot 8th Jun 2007
A great many of those who become early adopters of the iPhone will be buying it because of the Apple logo and the marketing hype.

Agreed. Apple has renamed itself from Apple Computers Inc. to Apple Inc. because they've gone from selling computers to selling a brand name, much like *****. More power to them but I feel very sorry for the fools who think they are going home with anything innovative. They are so blinded by the reality distortion field that they are calling the new HTC phone a "knock-off" even though the HTC phone is out and the iPhone is not! HAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Anything to protect their fragile egos I guess.
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You inconveniently ignore...
msalzberg 8th Jun 2007
the fact that at it's rollout, HTC announced the price at 499 euros. That's $670 US.

I've looked at videos of the HTC. The innovation I like best is the one where you
have to press the buttons several times to get them to work.
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Um, the HTC phone is out?
msalzberg 8th Jun 2007
Where, may I ask? I just checked their website, and the nearest site I can buy one
(nearest to North America, that is) is Spain. For those who post here from Europe,
Africa, and the Middle East, that's just fine. But for the rest of us, it's no go.

You are so blinded by your reality distortion field, you continue to ignore facts.
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Only USA counts?
NonZealot 8th Jun 2007
Um, the HTC phone is out?

Yes.

For those who post here from Europe, Africa, and the Middle East, that's just fine.

Yes.

But for the rest of us, it's no go.

Hehe, you make it sound like Europe, Africa, and the Middle East have a handful of people and the rest of the world lives in the US! I don't believe the iDumbPhone will be available in Canada until 2008 so I guess that means that as of July 1, the iDumbPhone will still be unreleased? Sorry, the HTC phone exists and was released well before the iDumbPhone. Apple is the copycat.

Besides, HTC has many phones with touchscreens, virtual keyboards, physical keyboards, as do many other manufacturers of many other phones. My brother in law has an HTC with a full touch screen and a slide out full keyboard and he loves it. If I told him that he had to give up his full keyboard and go back to a virtual one, he'd look at me as if I was crazy. And all of this is in a device smaller than the iDumbPhone. Amazing!
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As you so often do..
msalzberg 8th Jun 2007
when called on one of your comments, you change the subject.

You've been whining over and over that the HTC Touch is 'out,' and is superior to
the iPhone. You've told us over and over that we should get the HTC Touch.

You've ignored its high price, and the fact that I have to go to Europe to get one.

Now, when we question the usefulness of the phone you've been touting, you start
talking of their other phones.

Maybe there's a reason your brother-in-law looks at you as if you were crazy.
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You've told us over and over that we should get the HTC Touch.

If you can show me, I'll take it back. I've always brought up the HTC Touch in response to those who say the iPhone is innovative, revolutionary, or that phones with virtual keyboards and only 1 button are somehow a new paradigm in mobile devices. That the HTC Touch is out now is undeniable. That the iPhone is not out now is undeniable. So who is the copycat? The HTC Touch is brought up as only 1 example of Apple's inability to innovate and their dishonesty when they call the iDumbPhone innovative and revolutionary.

You also conveniently ignore the dozens (if not hundreds) of other phones that have touch screens suitable for a convergence device. When I play music or watch a video on my PocketPC, I get play, pause, FF, RWD, etc. buttons. In fact, I even had a program that gave me a virtual iPod like scroll wheel that I could use with my finger! When I look at a picture, I have a slideshow button, a zoom button, etc. When I browse the Internet on my 3 year old PocketPC, I get a home button and a refresh button and a back button. When I want to enter text, I can do so with a virtual keyboard (though I usually use handwriting, again my choice). All of these work with my finger and all of these have been available for years. The only thing the HTC Touch does differently is that it has 1 button which is something the iDumbPhone crowd seems to think is better than having 4 + navigation.

Maybe there's a reason your brother-in-law looks at you as if you were crazy.

Except he doesn't look at me like I'm crazy. I said he would look at me like that if I told him the things you are telling me. happy
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Man, when you're right,...
msalzberg 8th Jun 2007
you're right. You just said to check out the Touch.

Where can I do that?
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Let me show you
NonZealot 8th Jun 2007
Where can I do that?

eBay search for HTC Touch

If you buy one now, it should arrive before anyone gets an iPhone.

Or you can always check out the various hands on reviews of the device but I know you refuse to comment on devices you don't actually own... except when it suits your purposes of course. Tell me again how you know the HTC Touch requires a stylus to bring up its virtual keyboard? You obviously don't have one so I'm curious how you could possibly know this.
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Zealot, yes, I can buy one..
msalzberg 8th Jun 2007
on eBay. For only $589. For that kind of money, I'd have to use one first.
Wouldn't you?

As for the stylus thing, check out this link:
http://blogs.zdnet.com/mobile-gadgeteer/?p=393

You responded to a post of mine there, so I assume you've looked at it. Or is that
a silly assumption that you would actually look at something before commenting?

In the video, about one minute in, you'll see him fumble a bit with the stylus to
bring up the alternate keyboards (which, by the way, don't come with it. Add
another $30 to the cost). Then, when he finished demonstrating the first one, he
uses the stylus again to bring up the other one.

As I said there, the Touch is an uneasy blend of two different interfaces.
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BUT YOU HAVE NO EXPERIENCE WITH IT
NonZealot 8th Jun 2007
So you can't comment on it. Or do I misunderstand your position on commenting about things you have no experience with? Haven't you spent the last 2 days frantically finding all of my posts and writing just that? msalzberg, you cannot say that the HTC Touch relies requires a stylus to bring up the keyboard because you have no experience with it. So you've seen a video, big deal. Your requirement for commenting on a device is that you have to use it. Reading about it or seeing videos about it isn't enough... or so you say. Damn, once again you must hate it when people use your own faulty logic against you. So, are you going to admit now that it is okay to comment on something that you don't own or is it only bad when other people do it?

Haven't you realized yet that I'm making fun of you (and people like you), and not the iPhone? I might even get one, it actually looks quite nice (although not as revolutionary as Jobs would have us believe). I just like making Apple zealots squirm and boy, have you been squirming!!!!! happy
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Rather than squirming...
msalzberg 8th Jun 2007
I'm having a great time. You sound a bit rattled, though.

My commenting on a demo of the Touch phone is a lot different from your
constant whining about Apple and OSX, especially since you've admitted to never
using OSX, nor a Mac built in the last 6 years. I'm sure that the distinction is
obvious to all but you. You can't dispute what's on that video, since it's here for all
to see, but I can dispute anything you've said about OSX and Macs, since you've
publicly admitted your ignorance.

As for you buying an iPhone, well, that really makes me laugh. If you do, I'm sure
the voices in your head will really give you a hard time. Not only that, the people
who are paying you to troll about will be annoyed (you are getting paid, I
hope).
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HEAR YE, HEAR YE
NonZealot 9th Jun 2007
On June 8, 2007, msalzberg admitted that he was a hypocrite.

Nothing you ever say or do will ever change the fact that you stalked me for 2 days telling everyone that I was ignorant because I dared comment on OSX without actually owning a Mac and 2 days later, you are telling all of us how the HTC Touch worked without actually owning one. You've been shown for the fraud that you are. Deal with it like an adult and admit that owning something is not a prerequisite for understanding how it works. You can watch videos, watch your father use one, read up about the thousands of complaints, check out the hundreds of web sites dedicated to exposing the gaping flaws in a product, and use your general understanding of computers, UIs, the concept of how DRM can be used to artificially and onerously tie software and hardware together for the betterment of a billionaire's wealth while hundreds of sheep bleat and blare about how angelic that company is.

Nothing will change the fact that on June 8, 2007, you were exposed as a hypocrite. You will spend the rest of your life knowing that you were exposed as a fool today. I would feel sorry for you but you brought it upon yourself. OUCH OUCH OUCH!!!
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There's never been discussion about you owning a Mac. You admitted to
never using one. There's a difference.

You've commented on OSX's look and feel and usability, but you have no way of
knowing any of that - never having used one.

The thing about look and feel is that, to comment on it, you actually have to have
felt. Since you've admitted to not having done so, any comments you make
are made with no basis in fact, only in what you want to believe.

On the other hand, here on ZDNet is a blogger, Matthew Miller, who graciously
showed
how the Touch worked. I commented on neither look nor feel, but on
the process used. Anyone here can view the same thing, and come to the same
conclusion.

For those who don't know, and are reading this idiotic exchange, here's the link:
http://blogs.zdnet.com/mobile-gadgeteer/?p=393

My point is that it's awkward to have to use a stylus to bring up a keyboard that
doesn't need a stylus.

The video shows this clearly.

Face it, Zealot, you got caught misleading us. Stop whining.
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You admitted to never using one. There's a difference.

Okay, so the test of whether or not someone can comment on something is whether or not they've ever used one. Got it!

So when, exactly, have you used the HTC Touch? Answer that and you won't look like a hypocrite. Ready? Set? GO!!!

You've commented on OSX's look and feel and usability, but you have no way of knowing any of that - never having used one.

Okay, so you can't comment on look, feel, or usability without physically using the device. Got it.

I commented on neither look nor feel, but on the process used.

Now you just need to describe to us how commenting on how something is used is not commenting on its usability. Ready? Set? GO!!!

And now, just to blow your mind, here is a video of OSX in action . Now I too have watched a video of OSX. OUCH OUCH OUCH!!!
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Gosh, Sparky, you're right again!
msalzberg 9th Jun 2007
Yep, now you know everything about the Mac/OSX experience. So, now that you've
scoured the Web and found that, let me ask you: Now that you have OSX
experience, do you prefer to set the side mouse buttons to function as an F11
keypress, or leave it as F9? When you want to send an attachment of a file you've
just been working on, do you prefer to open Mail first, or do you drag the proxy
from the top of the window to the Mail icon on the dock? You now claim to be an
expert on the OSX look and feel, having seen that video.

So, does the Touch require a stylus to bring up a keyboard that doesn't require a
stylus. I notice you refuse to comment on that. Do you think that's revolutionary,
innovative, or just evolutionary?

Listen, I'd love to continue with this, but as they say,never argue with an idiot. They
bring you down to their level and beat you with experience. I'm having trouble
getting down to your level.

Besides, I'm heading for Italy for two weeks.

Don't forget to take your meds while I'm gone!
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You could try the HTC Touch!!
NonZealot 9th Jun 2007
Besides, I'm heading for Italy for two weeks.

Since the device is out in Europe right now (ahem, the iPhone isn't out anywhere... what a knockoff!!) so you could try the HTC Touch! Then you would at least live up to your own, unique prerequisite for commenting on a device!

do you prefer to set the side mouse buttons to function as an F11 keypress, or leave it as F9?

Find me a single quote where I talked about how much the mouse buttons sucked.

When you want to send an attachment of a file you've just been working on, do you prefer to open Mail first, or do you drag the proxy from the top of the window to the Mail icon on the dock?

Find me a single quote where I talked about how much the OSX Mail client sucked.

You now claim to be an expert on the OSX look and feel, having seen that video.

Actually... no... you claimed to be an expert on the HTC Touch because you saw a single video. Once again, you simply don't get it. I was making fun of you by showing that video. I'm taking the ridiculous things you say and do and shoving them right back in your face. The hilarious thing is that when I say to you the exact same things you say to me: I'm an expert because I saw a single video on a product, you think it sounds ridiculous... but you were the one to say it seriously! I'm making fun of you when I say it! HAHAHAHAHA!!!!

The truth is that I comment about the issues that I've researched. Does Apple have a TPM DRM chip in it to prevent people from running OSX on non Apple hardware? Yes and you can't deny it. I don't need to own a Mac to comment on how hypocritical it is for people to hold Apple up as a champion of destroying DRM when Apple uses DRM to maximize its profits. I don't need to own a Mac in order to price out my specs through Dell and through Apple and realize that the cheapest Apple to meet my specifications costs twice as much as the Dell.

So, does the Touch require a stylus to bring up a keyboard that doesn't require a stylus.

I don't know, I haven't researched or used it but then neither have you: you've only seen 1 video of it. However, I do own a PocketPC that has the same sized screen and uses an OS that is fairly close to that of the Touch so I can say with 100% certainty that while that video showed the person using the stylus, I'm able to use my fingers to bring up the keyboard on my PocketPC. There, just did it now! Whenever I play music on my PocketPC, I always use my finger to control playback since that is faster then pulling out the stylus and it is just as accurate. I'm afraid for this complaint of yours, I am able to comment far better than you since I actually am using a touchscreen Windows Mobile device with my fingers. Are you?

The reviewer also updated his original story to talk about how great the Touch was after using it for a day. How long have you used the Touch? See, that is the problem with putting too much faith into a single video. If you are going to comment definitively on whether or not the Touch requires a stylus to bring up a keyboard without ever having used one, you should probably get information from more than one source and from different points in time.

Besides, I'm heading for Italy for two weeks.

Have a great trip! I'd say we will miss you but there are plenty of sheep who think exactly like you and are wrong in exactly the same ways as you so I hardly think we'll notice your absence. happy
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Uh, no.
msalzberg 9th Jun 2007
The HTC Touch is available in the UK only. The rest of Europe and Asia - "later this
month." No definite date.

Try again.
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I am disturbed............
dave95. 8th Jun 2007
by those that continue to write-off the keyboard, and decide whether or not it will be usable without even touching that product first. Do I think that the iPhone?s keyboard is going to be an efficient input device? No.
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A continuation of your thought
DannyO_0x98 10th Jun 2007
But aren't the questions whether the virtual keypad is an improvement over tiny
buttons and what is the criterion for improvement?

In that the space used for the buttons is now given to the display, I'd guess yes, I
see this as an overall gain. Mileage does vary. Sometimes it's a trade-off and the
market decides whether it works or not.

For those who are recommending against buying it because there's something
else that they aren't buying that has had bla bla bla since the Coolidge
administration, and who add that all the people who do buy it are deluded. Why
are you even taking the time to share your wisdom? Innovation doesn't move that
many units. Price and utility move units and we shall see what happens.
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Whining Little Pussies
pvhastings 8th Jun 2007
All this whining already about iPhone. It's amazing to me that all this whining is coming from the PC crowd yet I don't hear you complaining about all the windows devices that are bogged down with buttons, unintuitive interfaces, pay-as-you-go technology, viruses, worms, et cetera, et cetera.

I am sitting here looking at my Windows-based PDA that I spent $400 on and I can't figure out how to connect it to a wireless network - shouldn't this expensive piece of crap find a network for me and connect? I mean, that's what technology is supposed to do right? Work for me?

I own five PC's and nine Macs. I've never spent a dime on a Mac tech but have flushed thousands down the drain for PC geeks to come to my business and fix this crap. I shouldn't have to be a technician to make a computer work - and that's the difference between Apple and Windows-based technology.

A good friend of mine once said 'A great idea is a job half-done." I think Bill Gates needs to spend some time with that concept rather than build an empire of the backs of the ignorant and stingy.

So, STFU already about your two-year contract quivering - what wireless company doesn't market towards two-year contracts? STFU about the touchscreen keyboard, the network and the fingerprints on the screen. At least with this product, it will work for more than three months and not be a conduit for additional technology, applications, and upgrades out of the box.
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I am faster on the iPhone keyboard than I ever was on a alphanumeric or a qwerty. I have used several Nokia's (all alphanumeric) in the past and with the predictive text indicator I could go pretty quickly. (Nokia's are the hardiest phones I have ever owned also)

I tried the AT&T Tilt for 30 days because of everything it promised to do. But the keyboard was hard for me to type on and the stylus/on-screen keyboard combo was also slow for me. I always had to use two hands also which I didn't like sometimes. The phone battery also died everyday by 3pm. Primarily due to 3G and bluetooth usage. I set my email settings more infrequently so as to save battery life. And the AT&T reps said to stop using bluetooth. What the heck!! This is a phone marketed to professionals and they are telling me to not use a standard accessory!

I took it back and bought the iPhone. I didn't want to. I am generally an Apple hater (except for my beloved 60GB video iPod). I hate that you can't have an expandable memory card slot. I hate that it only has 16GB on board memory. I also hate that it is stuck with EDGE. I hate that I can't store docs on it. But what it does, it does really well. EDGE has been better than I remembered from previous EDGE phones. I have learned to change my music/podcasts syncing habits. I have also learned to better use Google docs and to use gmail to email myself important docs. I just store them as attachments. I also initially hated that I couldn't sync with MS Exchange, but the Google IMAP workaround is fine.

And as for typing, I can go pretty freaking fast. The secret is in knowing your keyboard and then trusting Apples auto-correct feature. I just go for it and don't look back. Occasionally I go back and fix something, but not very often.

I use the phone a lot, I send and check email way too often to be healthy and I listen to music/podcast a couple hours a day. And my battery has never died on me.

It doesn't do everything, but what it does, it does well. Now if I could get them to consider cut and paste.

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