Five reasons why you should forget the BlackBerry

By | August 5, 2011, 12:29pm PDT

Summary: The BlackBerry manufacturer is going downhill, and investing in one for the back to school season would be unwise. Here are five reasons why.

Research in Motion, the BlackBerry manufacturer, wooed the hearts and minds of the younger generation with their business-style phones. But as of late, the Canadian company seems to be on a sinking ship.

From product delays to operating system pullbacks: the company is losing customers in favour of other, more popular handsets, like Android and the iPhone.

Despite many previous assertions — it’s time to face facts. The BlackBerry is on its last legs.


(Image via Flickr)

It’s time to take a look at the BlackBerry brand and where it has come to, and why you should think twice about renewing your BlackBerry contract, or even starting one in the first place.

1. BlackBerry OS 7: Little new to offer, and not QNX-based

The next-generation BlackBerry will be QNX-based; a new operating system, based around that of the BlackBerrys lesser selling sibling, the PlayBook.

But current OS 7 phones were at one point promised to be QNX based, but this has yet been pushed to later versions. Essentially, what you will get if you buy a new OS 7 phone is vastly the same features and functionality as older phones — with a few minor additions that hardly warrant a long-term phone contract.

2. BlackBerrys are trying to emulate touch-based competitors

One of the main reason users want a BlackBerry is for their keyboard. It’s small and compact, but it beats the pants off competing devices — particularly the Nokia E and N series.

The new BlackBerry Torch phones – one is touch-only while the other has a keyboard, but don’t get me started — are trying to emulate the iPhone’s success with its touch-screen technology.

But what Research in Motion and others have yet to realise, is that the iPhone touch-screen experience is all but incomparable. Touch-typing on the iPhone may suck compared to a physical mini-keyboard, but BlackBerry touch typing is even worse.

3. As Research in Motion crumbles, end-user applications will suffer

As with the previous and reasons still to mention, developers will soon wake up to the difficulties that the BlackBerry platform will face. Not only is a huge cultural shift under way from BlackBerry OS 5, 6 and 7 to the next generation QNX-based operating system – this will be the all-consuming crunch time for BlackBerry developers.

But the more that Research in Motion struggles, and the ‘Osbourning’ sales issue that it has to overcome, developers will opt for better platforms to build upon. Ultimately this will lead to further detachment with end users.

4. BlackBerrys are not keeping up with the social times

BlackBerrys have never really been about social, per se. Sure, Research in Motion developed MySpace, Facebook and Twitter applications, along with numerous instant messengers and social applications — but that’s about it.

Unlike iOS, there is still no in-built video calling feature or Facetime equivalent for BlackBerry’s. The hardware is good, but the devices are still too corporate-focused.

On the other hand, while BlackBerry’s excel in the field of push email, this is hardly something to jump and scream about nowadays. Still lacking basic HTML email content and poor web browsing compared to its competitors, no wonder the younger lot are becoming increasingly despondent with the BlackBerry.

5. BlackBerry Messenger is dead: Facebook Chat is where it’s at

BlackBerry Messenger has been one of the upshots to the device range; allowing free, encrypted conversations to and from BlackBerry users.

But now that Facebook Chat has finally made its way to all modern post-OS 5 devices, who needs BlackBerry Messenger when it has only a fraction of your total friends?

Once, the flagship feature for the Generation Y; BlackBerry Messenger has been made defunct by a leading competitor.

Related content:

Kick off your day with ZDNet's daily e-mail newsletter. It's the freshest tech news and opinion, served hot. Get it.

Topics

Zack Whittaker, a criminologist who studied at the University of Kent, Canterbury, is a journalist, writer and broadcaster.

Disclosure

Zack Whittaker

I worked briefly with Microsoft UK in 2006 but no longer have any connection with the company. Regardless, I remain impartial and unbiased in my views.

I don't hold any stock or shares, investments or industrial secrets in any company, but have signed confidentiality agreements with a number of UK and U.S. organisations, whose names I am not at liberty to disclose.

I was involved with Kent Union, the University of Kent's student union, undertaking voluntary, non-salaried, elected positions between early 2009 and mid-2010.

No other company, body, government department, non-governmental organisation or third sector organisation employs me or pays me a salary in any capacity whatsoever.

As a freelance journalist, whenever expenses are given and taken by a company that is not CBS Interactive, these will be disclosed in each relevant post to ensure transparency.

I currently work with a UK law enforcement unit, but this is an entirely separate position which bears no connection to other work.

(Updated: 23rd October 2011)

Biography

Zack Whittaker

Zack Whittaker, criminologist who studied at the University of Kent, UK, is a journalist, writer and broadcaster.

After studying criminology at university, though still in his early-20's, he has already had a series unconventional work and voluntary positions. He has worked with researchers studying neurological illnesses like Tourette's syndrome (which he suffers from), has given lectures on the nature of disabilities in the public community, and occasionally ends up speaking on television and radio discussing the events of the day.

He first had academic work published at the age of 22, then still an undergraduate, and has been cited by a wide range of publications: from the Huffington Post, Business Insider, AllThingsDigital, The Atlantic Wire and CBS News.

Related Discussions on TechRepublic

Did you know you can take part in these discussions with your ZDNet membership?
157
Comments

Join the conversation!

Just In

RE: Five reasons why you should forget the BlackBerry
smallhome 11th Oct
really great reasons!

Nisha
Engagement Rings
I would not be without my Blackberry.
Have tried others and this is still for me the best option.
0 Votes
+ -
Contributr
@Robert-CIS As I just tweeted to @palmsolo, I won't be giving mine up for a while yet -- partly because I've still got 15 months left on the contract. But as you'll see from next week's post, ironically there is still no BlackBerry competitor, especially from Nokia.

But this is fair warning to students across the land -- don't invest in a new one, or an upgrade. Just, steer clear.
@zwhittaker They shouldn't invest in a Blackberry because Blackberry's aren't for students. They're for corporations.
month contract is up. And they and all the other windows phone based choices will excel at push email and all other enterprise features that make them the best choice for BB replacement. Both IOS and android devices are far too insecure for enterprise use.
@zwhittaker

Indeed. My BB is fine for now, but I've got about 15mo left on my contract also. When that's up, I won't be buying another BB unless they do something miraculous in 15 months.
@zwhittaker
Since when is QNX "new". It's been around probably since before you were born. All of you youngsters think everything today is new. I love my droid but the AndroidOS (not the Linux part) is infantile and extremely immature, as is the IOS (and Apple knows better). It's only the speed/quality of the hardware that compensates for the inept programming that runs on it.

The PDAs everybody carries around today are a thousand times more powerful than a Mac II or 386-16 and yet the operating systems they ran (yes, more than 20 years ago) were substantially faster, more robust, and more reliable (on a fraction of the hardware).

It would do you all a dose of good to look back into history and realize you're just reinventing the wheel (and poorly, by and large, with few exceptions).

Palm is gone because their hardware was unreliable and their OS was so immature it was not worthy of being called an OS. The thing that has blackberry (and I'm not a proponent) on the plus side is they own their technology and are entrenched.

And Microsoft-- they are just in their own zone. Who over there came up with the bright idea to come out with a Windows Mobile phone that does not integrate easily and perfectly with Exchange!?!?!? That is the ONE thing that got blackberry accepted into the corporate world early-on and the one thing that would have given the new windows mobile phones a solid chance in the market place. I still carry a windows mobile 6 phone *BECAUSE* it integrates with exchange. If you want to introduce a device into business, it's got to be something that the SALES people feel that must have to do their job. A windows mobile phone that runs XBOX LIVE but does not integrate with Microsoft Exchange is a total miss.

Steve Balmer, if you're reading-- hire me, I'd like to run your PDA division. You need to clean house, your top executives have no real clue why you make money or how you're going to keep making money outside of your OS and business product suite. And stop jumping up and down on stage and screaming like a little girl.

Now, everyone needs to just hold hands, take a deep breath and sing "we are the world".
@zwhittaker
Why would students not want to invest in a Blackberry? It's probably one of the most underrated choices for students. First, the BlackBerry server compression means not needing as much data, meaning cheaper data contracts.

Second, Blackberries because of BIS are the only phones that can have separate Social Media or Email only plans, so students who only want to facebook/twitter/im can get a cheaper plan. Those who only need email can do the same.

Facebook chat is where its at? I'd say the majority of people still use SMS quite a bit, and with BBM integrating your text messaging and BBM contacts, it's fairly seamless. And even if Facebook chat is "where its at", Blackberry has a fully functional Facebook chat within its FB app.

As for web browsing, the new OS 7 devices have been shown to be just as fast now with Web Browsing, with benchmark tests showing they are quite speedy.
0 Votes
+ -
@Robert-CIS
Agreed. Predicting RIM's demise must be the rage. There is a pack mentality around writers and everyone wants to pile on and bash RIM without giving the situation a thoughtful evaluation.

FIVE REASONS TO BUY A BLACKBERRY PHONE:
1. Hardware: by far no other phone is as durable or problem free. I tried a droid and couldn't take it after a week, it's a toy not a business tool. I came back to BB. Android phones have a 30% return rate, Apple is not much better!
2.Keyboard: the BB keyboard just rocks. It is faster than anything when you need to look up a number or contact, hands down. My Verizon rep has a BB and iphone. He uses the BB for all texting and email.
3. Sync: nothing even comes close to syncing with your Office information, contacts, calandar, etc.. (plus you don't need a gmail account!; even the new Windows phone sync in the cloud.)
4. 60 million users: with that many users, plus most enterprise users, RIM isn't going anywhere. Yes they are in a slide but the new line of phones will reverse this and RIM will recover. Android will suffer badly.
5. BBM: still the best. Facebook??? you have got to be kidding. The real world works hard for a living and first of all a phone has to be an efficent business tool. Not a toy.
6. (ok, one more) It doesn't matter if you are a student. Unless you plan on being a student for life, start thinking ahead. Don't show up to a job interview with a toy phone (with a beer app to boot), bring your BB; you will impress without saying a thing.
@tamcon

What's this "...Apple is not much better..."?

Apart from wishy washy nonsense pulled out of nowhere.

Where is the evidence to back up your statement?
@tamcon "FIVE REASONS TO BUY A BLACKBERRY PHONE:
1. Hardware: by far no other phone is as durable or problem free. I tried a droid and couldn't take it after a week, it's a toy not a business tool. I came back to BB. Android phones have a 30% return rate, Apple is not much better"

I work for a major mobile network . I'm a technical specialist, in other words I deal with problems and such with handsets and other devices. I can categorically say 60% of my time is sorting out problems with blackberrys. For a phone brand that really hasn't been doing much in waves of new hardware for a while its an amazing achievement to have a large percentage of their phones with the amount of problems they have. Now I agree to a point their hardware is solid stuff majority of the time but software and apps... lets just say we have our own private number directly to RIM for technical issues with their phones. We dont have any direct specific numbers listed for the other manufacturers ... we haven't needed them (thats including Sony Ericsson) ... find your nearest retailer ... ask them what they think of blackberrys... nuff said unfortunately.

comments so far says it all .... who do blackberry really target ... kids? students? corps? ... I dont think they even know
  • Flagged
0 Votes
+ -
@tamcon

"I came back to BB. Android phones have a 30% return rate, Apple is not much better!"

Apple says the return rate of the iPhone 4 was 1.7% and that was at the height of the antennagate hype.

Don't know about current Blackberry models but the Blackberry Tour had a notorious high return rate, analysts estimate near 50%.

PC World : "Nearly 50 percent of Tour owners with Sprint wireless service have returned them because of a problem that requires users to repeatedly swipe the trackball in order to move the cursor "

Even worse the 2011 JD Power Customer Satisfaction ratings ranks iPhone on top with overall satisfaction 5 out of 5, the blackberry is second to bottom with 2 out of 5.

http://www.jdpower.com/Electronics/ratings/wireless-consumer-smartphone-ratings-(volume-1)/
@tamcon
You would have made a valid opinion if you hadn't thrown Apple returns (1.7%) to the same bag as Android phone returns (30%).
0 Votes
+ -
@tamcon Sorry, but I use my Android EVO for business all day long and it syncs with Office products perfectly fine. Oh and by the way, if you need a phone to impress your interviewer, you interviewer is a moron. I work in the mobile software engineering market. Blackberry is probably good for business, but for all around usage it is not and that is how customers use their phone (for more than just business). With no native hardware support for developers, BB will always be just a business app phone as JAVA is not a platform to do close to the metal development (such as video, etc). Blackberry is on our road map to see if we can deploy, but I am fairly doubtful due to a lack of direct hardware access.
They are solid phones and probably work well for business usage, personally I'm not in a hurry to carry any more phones than necessary (part of why I only carry my EVO and leave the other phones in the lab). iPhone is a solid phone as well, so not sure where your stats come from. Also, I wouldn't get my students a BB anyway as they need more than syncing with Enterprise (which they are not a part of at this time). As a side note, I always have a laptop with me, so doing business on my phone is fairly low priority as phone interfaces are nothing compared to real hardware
@tamcon Totally wrong. I probably started this trend well before any writers had recognised the signs. And there are literally hundreds of signs.

One is the behaviour of the CEOs. Lazaridis ending an interview whining lie a little girl when asked a simple question on the recent security issues regarding the Middle East.

The nonsense about Apple's return rate is plain wrong. The truth is iPhone satisfaction rates are actually off the scale.

Your anecdotes are immature and belong to the last century.

I suspect you work for RIM. Good luck.
@tamcon well said!!!
0 Votes
+ -
Conversely...
vulpine@... 8th Aug
@tamcon :
1. Hardware: While RIM does lead in the reliability standpoint, it is not "by far" but rather only about two percentage points better than Apple, which is almost a full 90% better than the next nearest competitor.
2. Keyboard: In the Blackberry's case this falls under hardware, as the virtual keyboard on those touch-only models is no better, nor any worse than the one on the iPhone. Some people simply prefer hardware keyboards and with the exception of only a couple cases, the iPhone simply doesn't have one.
3. Sync: Um... now here I might argue, at least to some extent. Depending on what I'm working on, my iPhone automatically synchs. with my iPad wirelessly and without being manually triggered. By what I've read with the new iCloud, this capability is supposed to work across all linked devices to a given account. Quite honestly, I find it neat that I don't have to go looking for things, they're simply there when you need them.
4. 60 million users: You followed up to say "plus most enterprise users" but really that includes enterprise users which are RIM's dominant customer base. All you have to do is look at web usage stats and sales numbers to realize that RIM's market has slipped dangerously in the last few years simply because their phones aren't as easy to use as Apple's or the Android phones. 60 million is less than half the number of iPhones now in use and roughly a quarter the number of Androids. This doesn't mean that RIM can't come back, but so far their efforts have failed to elicit any kind of surge in sales.
5. Blackberry Messaging: The biggest drawback to this is that it's Blackberry-only--not everybody, not even a quarter of the people who IM through their smart phones use Blackberrys. I'm not saying that it is better or worse than any other, merely that it's simply not being used by more than about 20% of all smartphone users which makes it extremely restrictive when trying to communicate via text with a non-Blackberry user; they either have to use carrier texting services or one of the third-party messaging services like AIM or Yahoo! Chat. Facebook is just the most popular at the moment.
6. "... start thinking ahead...": Definitely. By doing so you'll quickly realize that the current iteration of Blackberry devices is not likely to help you in the future unless RIM gets their act in gear. Yes, the Blackberry is still the best tool for some business purposes, but that paradigm is shifting rapidly and RIM is falling behind the curve. RIM's OS is anything but easy to use, forcing you to sometimes dive through multiple menus just to make a phone call to a regular contact. Other tasks are even more difficult.

Blackberry is no longer "cool" as you try to suggest. Blackberry does not "impress" but rather says "old hat/old news; this guy doesn't get it." Yes, it is a solid product--but it's solid like the Model-T vs a Ford Fusion. Which one would you rather drive on today's streets?
@tamcon - I agree with you about the BlackBerry, but you obviously know nothing about WP7, it is fully exchange compliant and you don't have to sync over the cloud, I sync mine using both USB and WiFi direct to my home network. Microsoft doesn't deserve the bashing either from some of these tech writers. I have used Android and paid off the penalty to get rid of the phone, I don't want to play games and serious apps just aren't available. The only reason I did not get a newer Blackberry was the screen size was too small. I missed my keyboard but have learned how to use the on screen keyboard available with WP7. I like the interface and am happy that Office is available.
@tamcon So refreshing to read something that is not a rant! BB is absolutely AMAZING for business. I like apps, but not on my phone, they sit on my iPad.
I am running my own business so my BB is my everything, syncing perfectly all calendars, contacts, etc. etc. The amazing thing is that the super syncing is also FREE with the very robust BES Express being FREE! (And you don't need extra server at all)
All in all, BB is robust, the keyboard is second to none, it always works!
It is a business tool so don't rant Apples & Pears!
@Robert-CIS:

Agreed. I think many - casual - users have forgotten that BB got to the top by servicing the corporate set. Business messaging, e-mail...that what serious professionals use BB devices for.

When the average consumer started to consider BB for social-type messaging purposes, they were disappointed. BB shouldn't have waited so long to get touchscreen devices in the market, but they should have been a bit more aggressive at reinforcing their business-reputation. Android phones are OK, but if you aren't using Google for e-mail, the experience isn't so easy.

I would pick Outlook for e-mail on my desktop, but I'd honestly support BB for mobile e-mail support anyday.
@Robert-CIS once facebook chat is easily available on phones then who will go through the trouble of using BBM. Not me atleast !

Blackberry Application Development
@Robert-CIS
No offense intended, but that's a bold post with absolutely nothing objective stated as an explanation behind the post.

So -forced to the land of guessing and assumption from this lack of information- I'd guess you are either a BBM user with an organization that relies on it, or in "trying others" you tried composing a text and decided that your years of practice with your BB keyboard was easier to type than your lack of experience with an unknown touchscreen keyboard.

Times have progressed, and devices have become abstract enough that they can be configured and shaped to suit your needs - your experience with "others" (which no doubt weren't configured or installed to compliment your desired experience). It's this abstraction, this configurability, this flexibility that makes these new-paradigm smartphones superior, and the reason why Blackberry and it's perceived "only for corporations" (how limiting!) devices are an obsolete concept. In today's world, it makes about as much sense as laptops being "only for corporations" - no, the suitability depends on the software installed on the laptop. Same with today's smartphones.
0 Votes
+ -
@Robert-CIS
I agree. They are purpose-built to function exactly as they were originally designed to function, with a purely business-oriented design, and they do it better than any smartphone that tries to emulate the same functionality with yet another mobile application.

In my opinion, a touch-screen is not needed, and over-complicates the once simplistic, no-nonsense, human-interface that BlackBerry devices were known to provide. It also needlessly adds to the cost. RIM seems to be trying to appeal to the smartphone crowd, when they should be focusing on the core functionality that made them a business staple in the first place.

I doubt that a touch-screen smart-phone could stand up to the same daily abuse as my employer's fleet of BlackBerry phones, in the hands of non-technical field personnel, and certainly not with the same level of security and minimal administrative cost.
And yet, you miss the number one reason to have a Blackberry: BlackBerry Enterprise Server. Not to mention I wouldn't trust Facebook with corporate messages even if they were encrypted to hell and back.
@Aerowind - Compare BES vs. Exchange Server 2010.

BES is dead.
@bitcrazed

Can we assume you meant Exchange Activesync? BES isn't a mail server, so "vs." doesn't apply.
@bitcrazed

What is to compare? One is a enterprise class MDM and one is an email system. EAS is a means to provide mobile email with very basic security policy. Hell half of mobile devices even windows phone 7 don't support half of them.

RIM also provides a totally free option that out performs EAS and can run off a desktop if that cheap. Outside of BES only Good Technology provides true push email. Everyone thinks all BES provides is mobile email when it is a pure MDM that can be a VPN, PBX all with over 500 security policies that get as granular as you want.
@Aerowind Our Fortune 100 enterprise is working hard to get rid of BES. BES is too expensive and no longer provides the value it once did.
@Skippy99

And replace BES with what? EAS? Good luck managing a few hundred devices with that. BES provides more then mobile email. Moving to another platform is not cheap either. We use Good Technology for iOS and Android and it's 3x the cost that BES is.

RIM provides a 100% free version of the BES so I never understand the "It's too expensive" arguement. Enterprise mobile support costs money, if you don't want to pay for it don't complain when you have no management and data loss.
0 Votes
+ -
Facebook chat?
unredeemed 5th Aug
Oh please! That is the worst recommendation I've ever heard. WhatsApp, ICQ, and many other apps are better than Facebook chat and available for many platforms. Not everyone uses FB you know, and I don't FB my co-workers about work stuff.
@unredeemed
Doesn't sound like you're a student.

This advice is only for students.
@jdakula
And the students I do know, use Whatsapp for the most part or SMS. So it's still bad advice. Then again, this could be a regional thing too. Even still, FB chat? Really?!
Blackberries are better for more advanced users who like to multitask and get things done quickly. It's not as easy to use as an iPhone, which is more of a child's phone in my mind. These arguements are poorly put together with little analysis, an obvious personal dislike of this more advanced product and/or perhaps additinoal payment from RIM competetion who are worried because RIM shipped more product last year than they did.
@riklauder - Not iOS, but Windows Phone 7. By far the most intuitive platform for getting things done quickly that I have seen yet. I kept reading about it and was skeptical until I picked one up for myself. For a business user like myself, the Arrive is spectacular with it's physical keyboard!
@tdogg219
Unfortunately WP7 is just getting to Canada so I have yet to see or play around with one.
@riklauder

You must be in the Yukon, or something, as WP7 has had more than a few models available in Canada for 9 months, or so. I know the Samsung Focus launched on Rogers, in November.
0 Votes
+ -
@riklauder As someone who owns both a Blackberry Curve 8530 and an iPhone 4 I find that I can get MORE work done with my iPhone and receive email, text, etc. faster on my iPhone than my Blackberry. So if - by your argument - the iPhone is more of a child's phone then what does that make the Blackberry Curve?

Add to that the iPhone is far more intuitive to use it's easy to see why RIM's market share has declined the last few years. Somehow I don't think Apple is too concerned with RIM at this point.
0 Votes
+ -
@athynz You do realize that you're comparing an entry level older gen BB (the current generation low end phone is the Curve 9300) with the current flagship Apple Phone (granted they offer a single model/form factor per generation of their phone).
I'm not saying that you would change your mind if you tried the higher end BlackBerry phones that are actually used by people who truly rely on their BB's for business productivity and communication, but it might be possible.
You are saying that QNX is new. I thought QNX had been around for many years as a generic real-time UNIX that happened to be used on the Blackberry playbook.
0 Votes
+ -
QNX is older than the author
facebook@... 5th Aug
@sys_engineer Yes, QNX came out before Zach Whittacker was born. It is a Unix-like RTOS with its origins in embedded systems. Quite frankly, it is one of my favorite RTOS'. I may have an emotional sentiment to it as I still have a few set top boxes that are QNX-based.
0 Votes
+ -
Contributr
@facebook@... Please spell my name correctly... not much to ask happy
@zwhittaker That is how we used to spell your name back in the days when QNX came out.
0 Votes
+ -
One bite fits all. What ever happened to objective and responsible journalism? I think that competition is good for the market. Let's not push ever company to make an iphone, which happens to be great for its intended audience. Likewise the BB is great for its intended audience, and please don't ask who? FYI, 2011's worldwide annual smartphone sales projection is 426m, and at approximately 15% market share BB will sell about 64m.
I am so tired of these articles.
Really? What happened to there being room for competition? Not everyone buys a new phone every three or four months. I am currently an Android user but I want Blackberries to still be around, as my next phone may be one. Yes, I actually will consider a Blackberry when my contract is up. I have found that most apps I have downloaded have been uninstalled after a short while and I only keep a few core apps that I need to be productive, all of which are available on a Blackberry. Don't write them off just yet.
Article is shallow and poorly written just regurgitation of other stories that have been out for weeks..(buy hey its ZDNET). Substance doesn't matter as long as his name is spelled correctly.
@jacjar1 You are absolutely correct. Obviously, He, Cheng and their ilk are apple-bobbers.
@jacjar1 you go get 'em!!! LOL
150% CORRECT
what a load of crap, can not believe you actually put your name on the article
@HabsSuck

LOL.
Garbage ..... this artice that is
really great reasons!

Nisha
Engagement Rings

Join the conversation!

Formatting +
BB Codes - Note: HTML is not supported in forums
  • [b] Bold [/b]
  • [i] Italic [/i]
  • [u] Underline [/u]
  • [s] Strikethrough [/s]
  • [q] "Quote" [/q]
  • [ol][*] 1. Ordered List [/ol]
  • [ul][*] · Unordered List [/ul]
  • [pre] Preformat [/pre]
  • [quote] "Blockquote" [/quote]
ie8 fix

The best of ZDNet, delivered

ZDNet Newsletters

Get the best of ZDNet delivered straight to your inbox

Facebook Activity

White Papers, Webcasts, & Resources
ie8 fix