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Don't forget: Microsoft is (supposedly) working on a Windows app store, too

By | October 20, 2010, 12:31pm PDT

Summary: What should Microsoft do with Windows (if anything) in light of today’s Apple announcements around a new app store and OS directions for its Macs?

I’m seeing some Windows users ridicule (and a few quietly pining for) Microsoft to do what Apple announced today: Create an Apple-like App Store for Windows.

Supposedly, that’s in the works, as some may recall from Windows 8 slides that leaked earlier this year. Remember those early-concept Windows 8 slides — the ones everyone believes Microsoft shared with its hardware partners (even though Microsoft still has not confirmed their veracity)?

According to those slides, one of the primary form-factor targets for Windows 8 will be slates. And at the same time as Microsoft ships Windows 8, it will have one or more app stores. (It sounds like the plan was each OEM would have its own branded app store that would possibly be populated and maintained primarily through Microsoft.)

What kinds of apps would be in Windows app stores? Presumably anything from paid software apps, to low-cost or free Web apps, games, utilities and the like.

Here’s the problem I foresee for Microsoft, however. The company has decided to prohibit its OEMs from creating Windows Phone OS-based slates and tablets by creating a limit on screen size (of approximately four inches) for Windows Phone OS devices. That means there won’t be Windows Phone OS slates (at least not for the time being). So those apps that developers are writing for Windows Phone 7 won’t be backward compatible on Windows 7/8 slates or tablets… will they?

Here’s what Microsoft could do to head off that potential problem. There are rumors the Softies are planning to build into Windows 8 some kind of hypervisor virtualization technology that would prevent backward compatibility issues from plaguing  Windows, going forward. If that happens, could a Windows Phone version of Angry Birds — if and when such a thing ever actually materializes — run on a Windows 8 slate without tweaks? Hmmmm. Very interesting….

Of course, the other downer for the Microsoft faithful in all this is Windows 8 is supposedly a 2012 thing (again, Microsoft hasn’t given any kind of an official date; that’s just a general consensus). By that time, Apple will have a Mac store chock-full of apps, no doubt, and millions more iPad users in its fold.

Poll

If you were Microsoft, what would you do with Windows, at this point?

If you had a chance to give your two cents to the Windows team after today’s Apple announcements, what would you suggest?

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Topics

Mary Jo has covered the tech industry for more than 25 years for a variety of publications and Web sites, and is a frequent guest on radio, TV and podcasts, speaking about all things Microsoft-related. She is the author of Microsoft 2.0: How Microsoft plans to stay relevant in the post-Gates era (John Wiley & Sons, 2008).

Disclosure

Mary-Jo Foley

Freelance journalist/blogger Mary Jo Foley has nothing to disclose. WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get). I do not own Microsoft stock or stock in any of its partners or competitors. I have no business ventures that are sponsored by/funded by Microsoft or any of its partners or competitors.

Biography

Mary-Jo Foley

Mary Jo Foley has covered the tech industry for 25 years for a variety of publications, including ZDNet, eWeek and Baseline. She has kept close tabs on Microsoft strategy, products and technologies for the past 10 years. In the late 1990s, she penned the award-winning "At The Evil Empire" column for ZDNet, and more recently the Microsoft Watch blog for Ziff Davis.

Got a tip? Send her an email with your rants, rumors, tips and tattles. Confidentiality guaranteed.

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RE: Don't forget: Microsoft is (supposedly) working on a Windows app store, too
tomlin21-24319035676893835085146735905770 11th Oct
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What Microsoft can learn from Apple is making the updates smaller, more User Experience enhanced and faster roll-outs, by that meaning stuff like announcing the Windows App Store now, gaining enhancements, tweaks and as many developers as possible on it for launch.
@TalTara - erm, you DO know that Microsoft ships regular updates to all its supported products, right? That's what Windows Update is for: At least once a month, Microsoft ships fixes and patches for security, reliability and performance issues. If the issue is important enough, it gets shipped "out-of-band" as a high-priority update.

Most of Microsoft's supported products get a new service pack once every 12-18 months which rolls up all previous patches and fixes, along with any other important features and improvements.
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Who cares? MS is slowly Dying.
itguy08 20th Oct 2010
And can't die soon enough!
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Only in your mind.
John Zern 20th Oct 2010
itguy08 . In reality, no so much.
Once again, too bad for you. sad
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Contributr
@itguy08 LOL! I love you delusional folks who seem to honestly convince yourselves that MS is dying. I mean, SERIOUSLY? HAHAHAHAHA!

Even if only for the Xbox ALONE, Microsoft is going NOWHERE. People like you seem to think Microsoft is only comprised of the products that fail and/or are new to market. Well, guess what? The money they make off of their successful and flagship products totals more than you seem to be capable of comprehending. I'm sorry, but that's just sheer ignorance to not only think MS as a company is dying, but that they *should* in the first place. Wow.

Nice article, MJ. happy

-Stephen
@StephenChapman
MS already has an App Store on the XBox.
  • Flagged
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@StephenChapman The Xbox division didn't start making money until 2008 - $524 million in 08 and $169 million in 09. It seems like a lot, BUT... They were already 4 billion in the hole before the launch of the 360! Tack another billion to that to cover the RROD fiasco and another billion to cover operating costs from 05 to 07. Does that seem like a success to you? In all honesty, I wouldn't be surprised if they drop the Xbox division.
@StephenChapman I wouldn't say that they're dying but Microsoft IS a few generations behind. i.e. Mary Jo's telling us what Apple did with "system 9" in order to release OS X: use a hypervisor for backwards compatibility.

My favorite thing about my Mac is it's ability to cut and paste PDF data natively! I tried doing that today on a PC and, from what I could tell, I couldn't copy and paste PDF into Word unless it became "rich text" and, unfortunately, that meant losing my images and formatting! I could buy more software, like Acrobat, but why? because, if I did that, my PC would surely cost more than a Mac!

So I'm hoping that Windows 8 delivers as much value as a Mac does; if that happens, PC's will become more expensive because "you get what you pay for!"

So, Steve Balmer, here's your new ad: "Windows brings you as much value as a Mac!"
@mrminnman - you can copy content from a PDF and paste it wherever you want in Windows too - so long as the PDF's author has not chosen to prevent copying. That's a restriction Adobe chose to implement. I sincerely hope that whichever PDF reader you're running on your MAC correctly honors the document author's choices about what can be done with their content?

BTW - Apple HAD to provide a virtual machine infrastructure when moving from OS9 because they also chose to change processors. If they had not provided a VM solution, no existing Mac-compatible software would have run on OSX.

Microsoft didn't NEED to do this when introducing later versions of Windows because Windows usually runs on x86-compatible CPUs (unless you were running Windows on DEC Alphas, MIPS or PowerPC CPU's back in NT3.5x / NT4).
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Anti-trust?
John Zern 20th Oct 2010
Would they be able to get away with something like that?
@John Zern You're kidding, right?
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Why wouldn't they?
Cylon Centurion 20th Oct 2010
@John Zern

They already have an online store, and an app marketplace for the ZuneHD. All they would need to do is expand on that.
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MS should work with Steam on this one
NonZealot 20th Oct 2010
Steam is truly fantastic and it is clear that Apple copied their App Store idea from Steam. MS could save a bunch of time and release their App Store today if they simply worked with Steam. Or just bought it.
@NonZealot I find it interesting that the majority of the Steam founders are former Microsoft employees. Imagine if they stayed in Microsoft.
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Agreed.
muehlbauer 20th Oct 2010
@NonZealot: There is a lot of innovation coming from the gaming world. However, it is a lot easier to play in your own sandbox of choice. But if you want to get all the big players on the same page, this is a completely different animal. One that requires the respect of time to do right.
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the usual bs
banned from zdnet 21st Oct 2010
@NonZealot
it is more than obvious that apple copied their appstore idea for the mac from their very own appstore idea for iOS. and yes, yuo have to hand it to the microsoft shills, tey have no dignity left, the moment apple unveils an innovative new feature they cry: me too, me too!
@NonZealot - shipping games to a few million enthusiasts is a VERY different ball-game than shipping updates for mission-critical applications to billions of customers around the world.

Not only that, but billing customers in all supported countries in local currency WITHOUT causing major issues is a REAL challenge. Try talking to someone in Russia about buying games on Steam or to someone in Singapore about being billed in US$ with a horrendous exchange rate.

These are NOT easy problems to solve.
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WP7 Marketplace is not just about software
liquidboy Updated - 20th Oct 2010
You can't just scale up a WP7 app to a desktop app. There are underlying services, hardware requiremets etc. The reason WP7 apps are awesome is because the WP7 app interface has specific definitions of "Capabilities", it can also guarantee what hardware is available and how they perform (sensors, gsm, accelerometer, led cameras). All these components that an APP can use is solidified in the interface of the API's that WP7 apps use. These don't exist in the desktop world, or rather there is a hundreds of permutations for each component (eg. hundreds of types of cameras, some with led lighting most without etc).

The WP7 app is really all about delivering a guaranteed experience for the user, and the developer. Until MS can do the same for the desktop world then there will not be an app store. And if MS did launch a desktop appstore without these guaranteed API's then it will fail because there will be no way to guarantee a level of quality to for apps.

Alot of work at the OS/OEM level has to happen for a marketplace to arrive on windows desktop

p.s. Ive built 3 WP7 apps and i know first hand at the power of having a solid API and guaranteed quality level of components (sensors, cameras etc). We need this same level of control in the tablet and desktop world before we attempt a marketplace. Otherwise building apps with guaranteed level of quality will be really difficult!
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Good points
P. Douglas 20th Oct 2010
@liquidboy,

You make some good points. Right now, MS' slate plans seem half-baked, and all over the place. How does MS expect to compete against the iPad without an app store? Is MS planning on coming out with an interim app store ASAP to support Windows 7 slates? Will MS allow OEMs to come out with their own slate shells, which will cause a lot of confusion and guarantee that Windows slates won't take off? Will MS come out with a standard, interim shell until Windows 8, which will bring order to Windows 7 slates ecosystem? Quite frankly I believe MS should allow OEMs to only come out with Windows 7 slates (based on certain reference designs) that use a standardized touch input shell, and that these slates should be supported by an interim app store. MS should be able to keep Apple at bay with the above until Windows 8 comes out, when MS can introduce a much better, well thought out touch computing strategy.
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Very well said.
muehlbauer 20th Oct 2010
@liquidboy: This sums up the complexity of the problems VERY WELL. Read and re-read the above! Microsoft is not working with one to three devices.
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Contributr
Great points
Mary Jo Foley 21st Oct 2010
Thanks for bringing up the amount of lockdown of hardware and APIs that are needed for apps in a marketplace. I've also heard from some WP7 developers who say it would be fairly easy to scale their apps up for Windows... It will be interesting to see how this plays out. MJ
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Windows is diminishing. Fading. Yesterday's OS.

Most consumers will be accessing the internet from small iOS and Android devices. While Microsoft will keep its desktop PC monopoly, the destkop PC itself will become a niche, as most people switch to devices that run on the ARM processor.
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Care to put a time frame on that?
NonZealot 20th Oct 2010
@Tree Frog
Seriously! When will Windows have... hmm... let's say... OS X's current day marketshare of about 5%?

1 year from now?

5 years from now?

50 years from now?

I'm curious when you think Windows will end up being as big a failure as OS X is today?
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Change in perspective perhaps?
muehlbauer 20th Oct 2010
@NonZealot: Good question. I think it should be looked at in the perspective of cloud based computing adoption. For example, I see a lot of SOHO business using Google Docs. It has what they need and they don't care what platform it's on as the web browser is similiar across the OS platforms. If cloud based computing, one day, provides your email, your documents (read, edit, share), general space for media. . .that will fit the bill of what a lot of general business users want. Everyday I work with clients who are migrating, what was an application requiring Windows XP/7 to a web based version. The pros far out weigh the cons.
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Forgot to mention the obvious.
muehlbauer 20th Oct 2010
That day is now. happy
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What day is now?
NonZealot 20th Oct 2010
The day that Windows has 5% marketshare? Um, not quite. happy

I don't disagree with you that as time progresses, much of the computing that today requires a full desktop, tomorrow will only require access to "the cloud". You mentioned Google Docs and I'm very impressed with it although I use it on a personal level, not professional. On a professional level, Google Docs simply wouldn't cut it where I worked. It's good, but it isn't that good.

However, I still can't help but think that the day when 95% of desktops disappear is still very far away. What I do see is that there will be a long transition period where the desktop computer remains as the primary content creation tool but that your content, being in the cloud, will become more and more accessible to the variety of computing devices (HTPCs, smartphones, tablets) that we carry in addition to the desktop we have at home or in the office.

My opinion but it is why I asked for a time frame when Windows would have 5% marketshare. I believe that this is many years away.
  • Flagged
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That day is now: what I meant:
muehlbauer 20th Oct 2010
@NonZealot: Certain orgs are working completely in the cloud today. So, the proof of concept has succeeded and adoption to a viable business solution makes sense for some. That is all I meant by "that day is now". The day a desktop is replaced is not even on the radar IMHO. However, the desktop operating system is being trivialized the more cloud based computing is done. Good apps written in HTML5 will further accelerate trivialization of OS. In the near future I could easily see running Ubuntu 10.x on my desktop and having no love lost for Microsoft as Internet based applications continue to evolve. However, and a BIG, however, this speaks nothing toward the Windows Server / MS client desktop model. This area, with centralized authority, policies, etc. will continue to hold strong for many many years.
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Agreed.
muehlbauer 20th Oct 2010
@Tree Frog: For common business applications I completely agree. However, for anything requiring some horsepower, not yet. At least for the next 3 to 5 years. Once hardware offloading is done right, a low power CPU becomes a process/kernel manager while GPU's perform the bulk of the work. With H.264 encode/decode GPU hardware support we start to see much smarter use of electrical power and distributed computing. This model will continue as the divide and conquer approach is far better than throwing a powerful CPU generically at problems. Silverlight needs to go away, as it has no hardware acceleration. HTML5 needs to replace it. The sooner the better. This time next year with multi-core Arm processors on a cell phone we will start to see a massive improvement of performance per watt. Exciting times to see this mature happy.
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@muehlbauer: Just one correction
NonZealot 20th Oct 2010
Silverlight needs to go away, as it has no hardware acceleration.

This isn't correct.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Silverlight#Silverlight_3
Silverlight 3, released July 2009

On the media front, Silverlight 3 supports Advanced Audio Coding (AAC) audio decoding as well as hardware-accelerated H.264 video decoding.
...
These transformations, as well as many 2D operations like stretches, alpha blending etc. are hardware accelerated.
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Woohoo, thanks for the correction!
muehlbauer 20th Oct 2010
I stand correctly. I hope Netflix starts using this version as they now, do not sad.
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By the way.
muehlbauer 20th Oct 2010
Love the name: NonZealot. Wish I thought of it. Speaks volumes happy
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@Tree Frog

What about businesses? They rely on cheap computing power to run their businesses. Consumers will buy anything in a shiny box. If Windows died, would two people at work have to share a Mac in order to afford computing power? Get real.
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Unimpressed with Mac multi-touch
P. Douglas 20th Oct 2010
I was certainly unimpressed by Apple's approach to multi-touch on the Mac. Touching the screen (vs. a special trackpad) is important to get an immersive experience from touch. I understand Apple's point that vertical touch screens on laptops will not work, because users' hands will become tired fairly quickly. That is why I believe for a good touch experience, it is vital that the keyboard and trackpad be in the same plane as the touch screen, and that all three are able to pivot. I believe for desktops and laptops, the easiest solution is to increase the vertical dimension of the touch screen by 40% or more, and let users use an innovative, well thought out / designed virtual keyboard at the bottom of the screen. Laptops using this design, could allow the screen to tilt out from the body of the laptop when in use. A more compact laptop design, could be a dual touch screen which the user folds out flat, causing the screens to automatically snap into place as a single surface, which can also be tilted by the user when in use. The bottom screen could be about the height of a keyboard - it doesn't have to be same height as the top screen. If OEMs can come out with designs like the above which are easy to manipulate, I believe touch computing can take off on laptops and desktops.
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Cool
muehlbauer 20th Oct 2010
@P. Douglas: I like it. To extend your thought: With the innovation of flexible LCD's treat the screen like a scroll that you can physically roll out higher. Sensors would detect how tall your screen is and which orientation. The end result is you could buy a laptop in the shape of a tube that rolls out. You may buy a 50 inch long scroll that is 17" wide and use it as a banner, landscape style, in a presentation. Then when you're done, collapse it down to 14" high to type your responses here on Zdnet happy.
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Windows Marketplace
laxmanb 20th Oct 2010
Anyone remember that, it was an app store - it shut down last year I guess.
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App-V is the answer
DSotnikov 20th Oct 2010
Microsoft actually has more or less all the technology it needs to have app store today - App-V is a perfect application virtualization and streaming which they could push in a SP or via update. The problem seems to be organizational (different business units) rather than technical. See this for details: http://cloudenterprise.info/2010/09/27/windows-marketplace-why-cant-microsoft-make-it-happen/
@DSotnikov virtualization does not take into account the hardware on devices. You completely miss the point of apps of the future that take advantage of NUI (touch, cameras, mic, graphics cards etc. etc. ) For apps of the future to take advantage of the power of the device (tablet/desktop) we need strong OEM controls and new OS hooks. Then the marketplace will come. Virtualization is no solution for delivering quality integrated apps!!!
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One thing to point out
muehlbauer 20th Oct 2010
@liquidboy: Direct hardware support can be acheived even when virtualized. I agree that we need strong OEM controls and new OS hooks, however, I can and do play sound and have Direct3d support in my virtualized desktops. Of course, running against the metal is the best and to that extent Systems on a Chip will maximize effeciency.
"So those apps that developers are writing for Windows Phone 7 won?t be backward compatible on Windows 7/8 slates or tablets? will they?"
I don't see why not. They can already run on windows 7 in the development emulator, plus if they are all silverlight or xna based, as long as the required framework is in place, they should be able to run in a hosted container of some kind.
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Windows has a great app store
aoguy 20th Oct 2010
It's called the internet and I've been using it for over a decade.
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Shhh..
muehlbauer 20th Oct 2010
@aoguy: Obvious comments making too much sense to argue will be removed. . .because. . .they make too much sense. . . . .:)
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Click-Once
relwolf 20th Oct 2010
I really don't get it. MS has had click-once installation bits in Visual Studio since VS2005. It makes an install that can be downloaded and installed as a non administrator in well one click. Put a search engine, and store front around that and you've got an app store, what's the difficulty? Not to mention click-once apps can check-in for updates from the site the developer chooses and both forms and wpf apps are supported...
I have two questions....

1. If the tablets are to run Windows 7/8, why they will need a separate app store?? will the applications that run on Windows 7/8 desktop/laptop computers also not run on them?? in that case, is not the entire Internet a virtual app store for windows?? just like it is now?? Plus, future versions of the windows applications will definitely support new functions available in Windows 8.

2. If you are running a full blown OS on the tablet, then why you would want to run an app written for a phone on it?? If there is a phone app for a particular task, will there not be a Windows equivalent application available???

The number of apps that are available for smart phones are impressive. But have anyone counted the number of applications that run on windows operating system?? When someone counts them, will the applications that I have written only for my use, from simple batch command files onwards, also be counted???
I think the announcement of a Mac app store will create a lot of traction in the application store market, Mobile or Desktop/laptop. Which is a great thing for us because right now on windows applications management is so ******* frustrating, you are scared of virus, Adware, toolbar, spyware, you have to click on 10 buttons to finally install the software and don't even get me started on the uninstalling and updating process that can juste cripple your computer to death in the long run...

Consumers are now used of doing 1click payment and/or micro payment. So I think any company starting a business in this area is in the right direction to make some serious cash. wink

While googling I found that Allmyapps.com is the closest solution to a "Windows app store". While the website doesn't seem that much active, I also found that they just received a 1M $ funding and you can sign up for "something new" @ http://bit.ly/project35 even though they don't say anything about it :/

anyway, I'm thrill that people are finally looking into application management because it is such a f* pain in the ass !

++
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None of the above
mlindl 21st Oct 2010
Get rid of Steve Ballmer. I can think of no better solution to the Microsoft problem.
Like Mac OS X, will I have the choice not to use the App Store in Windows 8 if I don't want to?
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Did someone say...Zune?
Monkeypox 21st Oct 2010
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Definitely allow the Windows Phone Slates and why not release a modified version of their online store as a Windows Silverlight App. BOOM! Usable slates and App Store in 2 easy steps...

One last thing... All apps written for Win Phone are using Silverlight and XNA (managed code) these could easily be ported to Win 8 slates when it finally becomes available but provides a perfect stop gap until then.
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Vista HAD an app store
Justin James 21st Oct 2010
Why is this such big news? Vista *had* an app store in it, and it was REMOVED in Windows 7!

J.Ja
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RE: Don't forget: Microsoft is (supposedly) working on a Windows app store, too
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0 Votes
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RE: Don't forget: Microsoft is (supposedly) working on a Windows app store, too
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