Is Microsoft Zune about to be Kinned?

By | February 15, 2011, 6:37am PST

Summary: Over the past few days, more and more Microsoft watchers are noticing that Microsoft execs seem to be making a deliberate effort to avoid using the Z (Zune) word. That avoidance has set off a wave of speculation.

Over the past few days, more and more Microsoft watchers are noticing that Microsoft execs seem to be making a deliberate effort to avoid using the Z (Zune) word. That avoidance has set off a wave of speculation.

Some pundits claiming that Microsoft is moving to rebrand the service (Windows Live Entertainment, anyone?). Others believe Microsoft is clearing the decks to allow Microsoft’s latest and biggest Windows Phone partner Nokia to take over the streaming-music part of the service. (I’m not putting a lot of stock in that one, since Nokia recently closed the Ovi Music Streaming service.)

As a Zune HD and ZunePass user — and one who is looking forward to syncing her Zune account to her Windows Phone (whenever Verizon finally delivers a WP7 model) — I was worried Microsoft might have decided to pull the plug on its Zune music/movie/TV service. With the ill-fated Kin, Microsoft has shown that not all its bets, even those that come to market, are long-term ones. I asked the Softies whether Zune was about to be Kinned.

A spokesperson responded to my question late in the day of February 14:

“We’re not ‘killing’ any of the Zune services/features in any way. Microsoft remains committed to providing a great music and video experience from Zune on platforms such as Xbox LIVE, Windows-based PCs, Zune devices and Windows Phone 7, as well as integration with Bing and MSN.”

Windows Supersite blogger Paul Thurrott’s rebranding theory is sounding more and more plausible. But I’m thinking that Microsoft may opt to rebrand Zune as “Xbox entertainment,” rather than anything to do with Windows Live. After all, the Zune service already is available on the Xbox. And the rumored Zune HD2 — supposedly a device meant to compete with the iPod Touch — easily could be positioned and marketed as a portable gaming device.

Some veteran Microsoft heavy-hitters are moving to the Xbox division, as I’ve blogged recently, and are seemingly working on some kind of services-focused project. And the Zune team — which Microsoft split and reorged (twice) — is already in the Interactive Entertainment Business division, which is the home of the Xbox. Maybe the Zune service will end up as part of the evolving Microsoft IPTV strategy?

Anyone have any guesses (educated or not) about what’s next for Zune?

Update: Of all the posts I’ve read since I wrote this blog entry, I think Jamie Thomson’s makes the most sense. Thomson suggests that Zune will become the new Windows Live Media Player, and, effectively, Microsoft’s competitor to iTunes. I — unlike Thomson — still am thinking there could be one more Zune iPod Touch competitor, but more likely positioned as an Xbox-branded portable gaming device

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Mary Jo has covered the tech industry for more than 25 years for a variety of publications and Web sites, and is a frequent guest on radio, TV and podcasts, speaking about all things Microsoft-related. She is the author of Microsoft 2.0: How Microsoft plans to stay relevant in the post-Gates era (John Wiley & Sons, 2008).

Disclosure

Mary-Jo Foley

Freelance journalist/blogger Mary Jo Foley has nothing to disclose. WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get). I do not own Microsoft stock or stock in any of its partners or competitors. I have no business ventures that are sponsored by/funded by Microsoft or any of its partners or competitors.

Biography

Mary-Jo Foley

Mary Jo Foley has covered the tech industry for 25 years for a variety of publications, including ZDNet, eWeek and Baseline. She has kept close tabs on Microsoft strategy, products and technologies for the past 10 years. In the late 1990s, she penned the award-winning "At The Evil Empire" column for ZDNet, and more recently the Microsoft Watch blog for Ziff Davis.

Got a tip? Send her an email with your rants, rumors, tips and tattles. Confidentiality guaranteed.

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RE: Is Microsoft Zune about to be Kinned?
dfwekrdfe28-24353597632192352986897683842976 10th Nov
gchnsz,good post!
Remember PlaysForSure? It came before Zune, and was supposed to compete with the iPod. It failed, and was Kinned.

The replacement for PlaysForSure was Zune. Now it gets Kinned too.

Next, Windows Phone 7 will get Kinned, due to its lackluster sales.
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RE: Is Microsoft Zune about to be Kinned?
Cylon Centurion Updated - 15th Feb 2011
@zndac

No one said anything of the kind. It wouldn't be in their best interest to do so.
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@zndac I love it! "Kinned" Kinned: n. adv. to kill off an inept attempt by Microsoft to imitate an Apple product.
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RE: Is Microsoft Zune about to be Kinned?
Socratesfoot Updated - 15th Feb 2011
@dheady@... Yep...file that one with
Vista'd: n. asj. Making an ineffective or unstable product then re-branding and selling it as a new product instead of patching it.
Or...
ME'd: n. adj. Making a product so horrendously unstable and ineffective that the manufacturer has to refuse to acknowledge it ever existed.
Or...
XBOX'd: n. adj. Attempting to close and make proprietary a system built on cross compatibility by changing markets and then connecting it into everything other product you make. (we are talking about nothing more than Windows on a console after all)
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Message has been deleted.
statuskwo5 Updated - 16th Mar 2011
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Just like when Apple "Newton's" a product
AllKnowingAllSeeing 15th Feb 2011
@dheady@...
Yeah, there's MS, copying Apple again.
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Laughable
Michael Alan Goff 15th Feb 2011
"Vista'd: n. asj. Making an ineffective or unstable product then re-branding and selling it as a new product instead of patching it."

Vista has been usable for the past year, where have you been?

"XBOX'd: n. adj. Attempting to close and make proprietary a system built on cross compatibility by changing markets and then connecting it into everything other product you make. (we are talking about nothing more than Windows on a console after all)"

Look! It's iOS and iTunes! No, wait, Microsoft hasn't made rules to make sure certain things cannot be used with it. My mistake.
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Seriously... Here come the 'Tards...
Wolfie2K3 15th Feb 2011
@dheady@...
Except that would be quite incorrect. Name the Apple product the Kin phones were trying to emulate. That's right - there isn't one. The Kin phones were designed around social networking - Facebook, Twitter, etc.. They came with rediculous data plans that were overpriced. The Kin had no apps, nor any facility to add new ones in the future. It was supposed to be a replacement for the Sidekick phones previously offered by Danger (now owned by Microsoft) and sold through T-Mobile. It was a one trick pony. In this day and age, with the iPhone and Android, and for that matter, even Windows Mobile 6.5 devices, the Kin series was pretty much a non-starter.

@Socratesfoot -
Try again. Vista is (and was) very stable. Windows 7 is likewise just as stable. Vista has been patched - it's now up to Service Pack 2. Windows 7 SP1 is right around the corner. It's getting patched as well. Windows 7, btw, is NOT Vista. It's based on Vista - just like it's based on XP, Win 2K, NT 4 and NT 3.x.

Windows ME - funny thing about how "unstable" you claim it to be. I had a Win Me box - and it ran fairly well given I had it running on a Pentium 300 MHz dog back in the day. I've had friends and colleagues who ran it for YEARS - without any issues - until the hardware itself crapped out or the software they needed to run required XP. If it was nearly as bad as popular myth claims it to be - then how exactly can that be?

And how is the XBox any different from any other console - PS3, Ninitendo Wii or any of the other previous consoles on the market? Seems to me that the PS3 also offers stuff like Netflix and other web services (YouTube, et al.).

If the Xbox was "nothing more than Windows on a console" then how is it Xbox games are NOT compatible with Windows? Likewise, Games for Windows can't be played on an Xbox either. Game makers need to code different versions for each platform. And if they want to be competetive - they generally make a 3rd one as well - for the PS3.

So both of you - do us all a favor and pull your head out.
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Actually...
cosuna 14th Mar 2011
@dheady@...

Kinned: n. adv. to kill off or rebrand an immature or unsuccessful product or service to avoid embarrassment due to poor sales after good reviews. See BeBox, Windows Vista, Windows Phone 7
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@goff256:

Vista has been usable for the past year, where have you been?

I have heard that ever since 2008. People said that for Vista SP1, SP2 and SP3. I've used it ever since the Betas, RCs and RTMs. It never has worked, and the few people who actually "survive" it are really too stubborn to acknowledge that it s**ks.

Alas, most say Windows 7 is a Service Pack and actually it's a series of back ports from manage C++/C# code to straight C++ COM. That's the reason for the added speed and the decreased memory usage. Full touch users (aka HP TouchSmart) still need 6Gb memory and i7 processors.
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I have heard that ever since 2008. People said that for Vista SP1, SP2 and SP3. I've used it ever since the Betas, RCs and RTMs.

I used it for about 5 months. Blew it off my machine and restored XP from an old Ghost image. For a couple of years afterwards, I recommended people downgrade to XP or switch to Linux, if they could get away with it. Saved them a whole lot of headaches.

It never has worked, and the few people who actually "survive" it are really too stubborn to acknowledge that it s**ks.

For the Redmond Borg Collective to admit that, it would put their whole existence into question. It would just kill them to say, "yes, we made a mistake. We were wrong". Pride & ego rule the day.

I remember the when Geniuses over at Apple were wearing "We're not Vista" T-shirts for a long time afterwards. Vista was the best thing to happen to Apple and they exploited it to the max. happy

Alas, most say Windows 7 is a Service Pack and actually it's a series of back ports from manage C++/C# code to straight C++ COM. That's the reason for the added speed and the decreased memory usage.

Win7 was the OS they should have released in 2007 and as you can see, they haven't learned from that.
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@zndac

I once knew a guy, who had a bother, who knew a guy who owned a Zune... he said it was great.
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@Kabcock
Although you are being tongue-in-cheek, you're probably not far off the mark. Zune players, to the best of my knowledge, were only released in the USA.
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@zndac

....what? PlaysForSure was a DRM technology, and has almost nothing to do with Zune....

Maybe you should be Kinned as well....
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@spacespeed - PlaysForSure was a Microsoft platform for music players, which it licensed to OEMs.

It included an online music library, a bit like iTunes. Yes, it got Kinned to make way for the Zune, which is now also getting Kinned.
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@zndac - You are wrong. PlaysForSure was DRM technology, not a platform.
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@zndac ... If there's one thing Microsoft must never do, it's admit that anything the company has ever done has been a failure. Keep it alive forever and ever and ever. What the hell, it's only shareholders money.
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@zndac

What this person said.
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RE: Is Microsoft Zune about to be Kinned?
tonymcs@... 15th Feb 2011
@zndac

As one of the millions with a Windows Phone, soon to be joined by a planet full of Nokia users, Zune is just the synchronisaiton for my phone. I vaguely remember when I thought music was important, but I have no need for music services. I'm fine with a new name wink
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@zndac I had a Windows 7 phone from Samsung - dumped it and went back to the iPhone, much better - nice try Microsoft but best stay in the software business.
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Xbox is going to be central to Microsoft's media strategy heading forward - they don't want you buying an Xbox for gaming and another device for TV, they want the Xbox to be a one-stop entertainment hub, possibly backed up by a home server in the background.

Zune may well get rebranded as part of this, and/or merged with other services (Zune has well-known problems with cross-territory licensing) but getting rid of it entirely would be mildly counter-productive.
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RE: Is Microsoft Zune about to be Kinned?
none none Updated - 15th Feb 2011
@MarkXA

they want the Xbox to be a one-stop entertainment hub

If they want to have any chance of succeeding the first thing they need to do is take the media stuff out from behind the Gold paywall. Xbox is a third party toll booth with respect to online media. I'm not talking about the gaming stuff that comes with Gold. But paying MS a toll to access my Netflix subscription is a deal breaker. Don't even have to think twice about it.




happy
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RE: Is Microsoft Zune about to be Kinned?
john_gillespie@... 15th Feb 2011
After Gates made a 360 from his position that the desktop would continue to dominate and the internet would not be that important, he came up with a strategy to have MS act as a toll taker.MS is just carrying on this strategy. I have a Sony TV, a Sony Blu-ray player, a PS3 and a Onkyo AV receiver. I can access my NetFlix account from all four without paying a toll. I do have an xBox 360 but prefer to use my PS3 because the graphics are better, the interface is intuitive and consistent and the game controller is better then the xBox. MS thinks their monopolistic position on the desktop can allow them to dictate in any area they enter. Their stubbornness in using their now dead 'pet' DVD-HD instead of Blu-ray is marginalizing xBox. Soon xBox may join the Kin and the Zune in the Museum of Computer Curiosity.
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RE: Is Microsoft Zune about to be Kinned?
Schoolboy Bob 15th Feb 2011
@none none

Agreed. These are pretty good ideas - xbox as the brand, and making it all a bit less of a consumer money pit - let us leverage all the content we already have, regardless of the source. Otherwise, the more technical users will continue to hack or roll their own and the base may not continue to grow. Open it up, though, and there could be a groundswell.

These were good comments. Too bad the first thread were all troll comments.
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That would be the smart move
John Zern 15th Feb 2011
they don't want you buying an Xbox for gaming and another device for TV

I think that's a pretty accurate assesment IMHO.

Which is why I think we'll see an Apple Television along the same lines, too. People are at the point where they're scratching their heads wondering why they have so many different boxes and remotes sitting around, with multiple services.

"One service to rule them all" wink
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@MarkXA

Wrong, wrong, wrong.
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RE: Is Microsoft Zune about to be Kinned?
scH4MMER Updated - 22nd Feb 2011
@MarkXA

I hope you're wrong. Xbox is for gamers... if you're not a gamer or techie, you're not going to consider Xbox for your living room. I hope Microsoft keeps Xbox a gaming console "with benefits," but then remembers that it is a software company first, and builds Zune into software it can sell to hardware manufacturers.
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RE: Is Microsoft Zune about to be Kinned?
Cylon Centurion 15th Feb 2011
As a Zune user myself, I sure hope to God they're not killing it.
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@Cylon Centurion 0005 as an Apple iPhone, iPod, Mac user I hope you're right. Apple needs the competition, even from such inept and small potatoes players as Microsoft. From what I've heard and little hands on I've had the Zune is a pretty good device. If another company had produced it it might have had some market share by now.
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RE: Is Microsoft Zune about to be Kinned?
john_gillespie@... 15th Feb 2011
Another company did and still does produce it. MS bought the rites from a Japanese company. This is not a device that came from MS development.
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john_gillespie, So what?
AllKnowingAllSeeing Updated - 15th Feb 2011
Apple didn't invent most of the technologies used in their products, as most of it doesn't come from Apple developement.

Even the iPod's navigation features where outright "borrowed" from Creative Labs, and Apple ended up paying up in the end.

So your point was, what?
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@Cylon Centurion 0005

I agree completely - no one who has ever tried a Zune would be happy with anything else.

@dheady Zune rocks. Try one - your iWhatever will be very much appreciated by the Goodwill or your local veterans' thrift center.
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@DaveN_MVP
Sad thing is outside the diehard Microsoft fanboys (like the people that use _MVP in their screen names), no one really cares for the Zune. It doesn?t offer anything groundbreaking, the UI is a bit cluttered and not as easy to use. One more thing, not many are interested in a monthly bill from Microsoft, in this economy.
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RE: Is Microsoft Zune about to be Kinned?
Cylon Centurion Updated - 15th Feb 2011
@Rick_K

What monthly bill do you speak of? It's not mandatory to have a Zune subscription.
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@Rick_K - Are you suggesting that consumers prefer to pay a higher monthly bill to Apple for a few tracks per month vs. a lower monthly bill to Microsoft for an unlimited amount of music including the right to keep 10 tracks for free?
@DaveN_MVP
You should seriously remove "MVP" from your name. That kind of "logic" is the playground of fanbois everywhere. Just what about the zune is superior to the iPod? I own several iPods and have borrowed a friends Zune. They both play the same music. They both have the same basic capabilities. The Zune didn't strike me as a "must-have" product, already owning equivalent hardware from another vendor. So what exactly is it that would force a normally sane person to give their iPod away to GoodWill and go buy a Zune? I'll be eagerly awaiting your answer.
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@DaveN_MVP -- Suscription music
x I'm tc 15th Feb 2011
NT
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but then again, I've never heard an ABMer that was ever truthful about an MS product.
And in regards to a monthy bill in this economy, don't tell Netflix, they actually believe they're making money wink
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jasonp, that's the problem
AllKnowingAllSeeing 15th Feb 2011
I don't know why Apple fanboys think that Zune users should give away their Zune's for an iPod?

maybe they could shed some light on that, as there really isn't any compelling reason that I can think of.
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You'd have to ask them...
jasonp@... 15th Feb 2011
@AllKnowingAllSeeing
But my response was a question to someone claiming iPod owners would somehow immediately be turned over to GoodWill after trying a Zune. It was nice of you to try and deflect Mr. "MVP"s illogical statement, but again I'm asking him...why would someone get rid of their iPod to buy a Zune? Simple question for someone who clearly must know the answer, otherwise he wouldn't be making such claims.
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@DaveN_MVP
"I agree completely - no one who has ever tried a Zune would be happy with anything else."

MS chose to release the Zune only in the USA. No-one else got to try a Zune . . . and people wonder why it failed!
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@Cylon Centurion 0005

MS can have a bad habit of getting bored and moving on. My MS Wireless Router (MN-700) is the perfect example.

I had to jailbreak it and but WWDRT on it to get it to support WPA2 because MS just stopped supporting it (or even making them).
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100% IPTV related
Alansonit 15th Feb 2011
It's been around for years but has never been commercialised. I'm certain we will see a Microsoft TV service offered through the 360 and there's even a remote possibility that a TV offering will be coming soon.

Although i fear that Apple may draw the first blood by investing this mysterious $3.9b in Samsung screens for their own Apple branded TV.

Am waiting and watching.
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@Alansonit That's not so mysterious. They are investing in several suppliers to ensure an inexpensive, long term supply for iPads, iPhones, iPods, et al. They are currently the second largest consumer of component electronic parts in the world. I doubt an Apple TV is on the horizon though as that market place is extremely crowded and the high end (Apple's territory) is very volatile.
@Alansonit Apple TV... was originally a Television back in the 90s.. Total Failure, bigger flop than the Newton and the Kin Combined...
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Ahh the MacTv..
Tigertank 15th Feb 2011
@condelirios

Technically, it was just a Performa Mac with a tv tuner installed, but yeah, totally Kinned. However there were very few actually produced so the scale of it's failure wasn't all that significant. Another one of Scully's failed ventures.
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MS has already started the process of rebranding Zune as a service not as a hardware device. Zune has already been integrated into Xbox, WP7, etc. I suspect that MS is simply trying to position the Zune HD2 as something other than "Zune" (i.e. Windows Live Media Player) so that Zune can become fully branded as a service for the upcoming IPTV and into the future.
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RE: Is Microsoft Zune about to be Kinned?
zdnetreader123 15th Feb 2011
@JimRoton I think what you're saying makes a lot of sense. MS has been positioning Zune as a service and de-emphasizing hardware. An Xbox touch or some other name with Xbox, Zune services, and all the other WP7 stuff minus the phone would be a terrific device.
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RE: Is Microsoft Zune about to be Kinned?
Cylon Centurion Updated - 15th Feb 2011
So any bets as to what it will be called now?

Windows Music Live XBOX 7?
Windows Live Entertainment 7?
XBOX Entertainment 7 Service?
Windows XBOX Live Entertainment Music Movies 7?
Windows Live Zune XBOX Entertainment Serivce PlaysForSure 7?
Microsoft Windows Live Music For Microsoft Windows Phone 7 Extreme Home Premium Ultimate Edition 7?
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@Cylon Centurion 0005
You forgot one Windows entertainment 7 series device
Other than that the funny names just keep coming.
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RE: Is Microsoft Zune about to be Kinned?
dfwekrdfe28-24353597632192352986897683842976 10th Nov
gchnsz,good post!

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