ie8 fix

Is the Microsoft-HTC patent deal more about Linux or Apple?

By | April 28, 2010, 5:57am PDT

Summary: Mobile phone maker HTC has agreed to pay Microsoft an undisclosed sum to license Microsoft patented technology for use in phones running the Android operating system, Microsoft announced on April 27. Yes, that HTC — the same one Apple sued for patent infringement in the mobile space in early March.

Mobile phone maker HTC has agreed to pay Microsoft an undisclosed sum to license Microsoft patented technology for use in phones running the Android operating system, Microsoft announced on April 27.

Which patents is HTC licensing specifically? The pair won’t say. But Android is a Linux-based operating system, and Microsoft has been waging a campaign to get Linux distribution vendors and their OEMs to sign intellectual property (IP) licensing pacts over the past couple of years. Among the vendors selling/embedding Linux who’ve signed patent licensing deals with Microsoft are Amazon, Linspire, Novell, TurboLinux and Xandros.

Apple sued HTC in early March for alleged IP infringement in the mobile phone space. Apple is claiming HTC is infringing 20 Apple patents related to the iPhone’s user interface, underlying architecture and hardware.

When Apple sued HTC, I asked Microsoft for comment, thinking Microsoft execs might be willing to come to HTC’s defense — to some extent, at least — given HTC sells Windows Mobile phones, as well as Android-based ones. But Microsoft officials wouldn’t provide a statement of any kind.

A statement I received from a Microsoft spokesperson makes a not-so-thinly-veiled reference to the Apple case (at least the way I read it):

“As you may be aware, many technology companies active in the growing smartphone space have been taking increasing steps to protect their inventions. As the two companies have a long history of technical and commercial collaboration, Microsoft views this agreement as an effective example of how industry leaders can reach commercially reasonable arrangements that address intellectual property concerns.”

Does the Microsoft-HTC patent agreement mean we can expect to see Microsoft weigh in on the Apple vs. HTC patent infringement matter? Or is the Microsoft-HTC deal just one more example (with more mobile-phone makers possibly to come) of Linux companies attempting to head off potential Microsoft lawsuits involving Linux?

Update: Microsoft officials sent me a link to this March 16 statement by Horacio Gutierrez, Corporate Vice President and Deputy General Counsel, that foreshadowed Microsoft’s IP thinking in the mobile space. That statement clarifies Microsoft’s plans around mobile IP. From the statement:

“In the next few years, as the IP situation settles in this space and licensing takes off, we will see the patent royalties applicable to the smartphone software stack settle at a level that reflects the increasing importance software has as a portion of the overall value of the device.  In the interim, though, we should expect continued activity.  Apple v. HTC was not the beginning of this process, and it isn’t the end of the story either.”

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Mary Jo has covered the tech industry for more than 25 years for a variety of publications and Web sites, and is a frequent guest on radio, TV and podcasts, speaking about all things Microsoft-related. She is the author of Microsoft 2.0: How Microsoft plans to stay relevant in the post-Gates era (John Wiley & Sons, 2008).

Disclosure

Mary-Jo Foley

Freelance journalist/blogger Mary Jo Foley has nothing to disclose. WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get). I do not own Microsoft stock or stock in any of its partners or competitors. I have no business ventures that are sponsored by/funded by Microsoft or any of its partners or competitors.

Biography

Mary-Jo Foley

Mary Jo Foley has covered the tech industry for 25 years for a variety of publications, including ZDNet, eWeek and Baseline. She has kept close tabs on Microsoft strategy, products and technologies for the past 10 years. In the late 1990s, she penned the award-winning "At The Evil Empire" column for ZDNet, and more recently the Microsoft Watch blog for Ziff Davis.

Got a tip? Send her an email with your rants, rumors, tips and tattles. Confidentiality guaranteed.

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RE: Is the Microsoft-HTC patent deal more about Linux or Apple?
jackson1984-24316069205748857739440257893812 10th Oct
Howdy,The concept of your respective respective weblog web page is kind of match to me, I really hope all the more alternate with black ugg you this Motive.
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Its about both
storm14k 28th Apr 2010
It works out great for MS. They get to spread more patent FUD about Linux and at the same time pile on with the current "Apple is evil" feelings developing in some of the tech community. They show that they can just come to an agreement instead of pushing the panic button and hurling lawsuits.
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What FUD?
ericesque 28th Apr 2010
Seriously.

Microsoft seems to be giving companies a fair
chance to reach a mutual arrangement. So other
companies need not fear legal action without
the opportunity to negotiate first.

A company like Amazon is not going to grant
Microsoft a payday if they didn't see some
pretty solid evidence. I'm quite sure they were
not left uncertain about why they're making amends.

FUD isn't the same thing as "I don't like
what's going on here"
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Protection
norgate 28th Apr 2010
Yes it is fair. No it is not FUD. The process will be as flawed as the
patent process itself. Whereas this isn't exactly complimentary, It is
currently what we have to work with, and the law of the land.

Lets be careful here though. What will be FUD, is the characterization
of Apple's actions as nefarious relative to this. Apple is protecting it's
property, and they have every right. They gave HTC every opportunity
to remove violations.

What is happening here is very simple. Apple won't share, and
Microsoft will. If this is a schoolyard, and we are children, then we
complain bitterly about those who don't share. But this is not a
schoolyard, and we are adults, and property owners ourselves. To
endorse what Microsoft is doing but decry Apple is ridiculous, illogical,
and childish. It is the persecution of "protection" and the applauding
of the "protection racket", and how would that make any sense at all.
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You really don't know history, do you...
ubiquitous one 28th Apr 2010
What is happening here is very simple. Apple won't share, and
Microsoft will. If this is a schoolyard, and we are children, then we
complain bitterly about those who don't share. But this is not a
schoolyard, and we are adults, and property owners ourselves. To
endorse what Microsoft is doing but decry Apple is ridiculous, illogical,
and childish. It is the persecution of "protection" and the applauding
of the "protection racket", and how would that make any sense at all.


You really don't know history, do you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend_and_extinguish

You may think they're sharing in the beginning, but in the long run...
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I Get It
norgate 29th Apr 2010
Microsoft's monopoly status does make the rules different for them. We
have to trust the law to yank the leash however. It's not our job.
Microsoft is still allowed to form business partnerships and license
broadly. This is "sharing".
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Your right, it's not our job...
ubiquitous one 29th Apr 2010
...but we do have a right to question and be suspicious of their motives.

They've made threats against Open Source for years, and now they want to be "pals"?

Puh-leeease...
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The FUD people believe
tuomo@... Updated - 28th Apr 2010
If they would tell what then I could (might) believe it but without that
knowledge I still (might) call it FUD. Now, saying Amazon or whoever
would not take the easy way out, paying money, is ignorance. After 40+
years designing / developing systems I still have to see one what I
haven't seen before - I say seen, not patented or copyrighted, a huge
difference! I have seen companies, corporation and enterprises paying
fees even they know that they shouldn't but because it's more profitable
to work that way. Nothing wrong in that in free marketing world except it
makes people to believe on wrong things. Often it's the "don't rock the
boat" principle - you don't challenge our IP, we don't challenge yours -
just sign here.
@ norgate

A common misconception, particularly amongst the open source advocates (I'm not suggesting you are one) is that Microsoft are somehow a 'monopoly'. That reflects a complete misunderstanding of competition law and competition policy. Competition law is based on products/markets, not firms.

Windows has a clear dominant position in the market for PC operating systems, so anything Microsoft do that involves Windows PCs is subject to extra scrutiny by competition authorities. Windows Phone is not even remotely dominant in the mobile phone OS market, so the restrictions that apply to desktop Windows do not apply in any way to Windows Phone.

The fact that Barnes & Noble are trying to turn this into a competition policy issue in the market for mobile phone OSes is laughable. In fact, Microsoft's share in mobile OSes is probably below the 5 per cent level that more or less guarantees competition authorities will assume they haven't got a dominant position. In the EU, it's not Microsoft who are being investigated for potentially anti-competitive behaviour in the mobile OS market, it's Apple and Google.

Open source advocates also have a tendency to be fixated on events that, in the IT industry, are ancient history. What Microsoft did in the 90s, before they were found to have abused the dominant position of Windows (in both the US and EU), has little bearing on their behaviour today. First, the CEO's different and so are most of the management team. Second, they've had to pay enormous fines, modify their products and endure a decade of regulatory scrutiny and restrictions that have weakened their ability to compete. They'd be mad to do anything anticompetitive again.
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If MS was spreading "patent FUD" nobody would be paying the licenses
de-void-21165590650301806002836337787023 28th Apr 2010
Since an increasing list of companies ARE paying MS a licensing fee, and those companies are advised by armies of lawyers, you can be sure that Microsoft's case is valid.

If not, nobody would be paying for the licenses.
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Pulling an IBM?
dave@... 28th Apr 2010
In the 80s, IBM got pretty much every company in the computer
business cross-licensed. Why? One is simple: they had a patent
department larger than most company's engineering departments, and
a ton of patents to show. Another was exposure -- they had a huge
target on their backs, and didn't ever want to have to fight a patent suit.

But best of all, they were relatively fair. The license fees were for 1, 2, or
3 and up. Use 3 IBM patents or 33,333, price is the same.

If Microsoft has a similar deal, and similar worries about the whole big
target thing, they may find others ready to make reasonable deals. If
they have similar smartphone IP to Apple, its quite possible HTC has
found MS covers what they do -- cheapest patent defense is another
patent. Its always hard to be certain what a patent really covers, but
older always beats younger if they saame to both read on the same
design.

So they may well be getting a way out from Apple and any Linux
coverage as gravy. And if so, they get to make Apple look foolish, and
they've shown the next guy being sued where to go look for help.
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Redhat and Canonical
kirovs@... 28th Apr 2010
I will believe it when Redhat or Canonical pay M$. Canonical explicitly invited M$ to sue them. No response so far from MS. Seems that MS lawyers are not that eager to go into a real fight.
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Because they're irrelevant
WilErz 28th Apr 2011
@ kirovs@...

Judging by the patents, the kernel used by Android is completely irrelevant to Microsoft's claims. Why should they sue Red Hat, much less an economy pygmy like Canonical? Neither of them sell Android-based products.


Like WebM, this is essentially about Google violating the norms of patent cross-licensing that have long prevailed in the IT industry, but shifting the risk to their customers, rather than indemnifying them the way most firms do.
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We demand transparency
Linux Geek 28th Apr 2010
M$ is at it again!
These goons are leveraging the monopoly against Linux and smaller competitors.
The DoJ should start investigating this shody deal!
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And in your case, you get nothing, nada, zero. Deal with it.
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I represent people's interest
Linux Geek Updated - 28th Apr 2010
to get free software!
And also the people demand that they should not pay royalties to M$ for products not even made by the beast.
As I said, the DoJ shold investigate M$ for raketeering and abusing its monopoly!
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Said Free Software should not contain propietary IP from Microsoft (or Apple, or Oracle, or mine, or yours, or whatever...). While I don't know if that is the case, it is conceivable.
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Bring it on
ubiquitous one 28th Apr 2010
Said Free Software should not contain propietary IP from Microsoft (or Apple, or Oracle, or mine, or yours, or whatever...). While I don't know if that is the case, it is conceivable.

I invite M$ to try and find out. After years of threats against Open Source, where's the beef?
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I don't remember
Marcvs Vinicivs 28th Apr 2010
giving you the right to speak in my name.
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IP is for everyone
DarkLordofIT 28th Apr 2010
I bet you're one of those M$ haters that always accuses Windows of copying Mac. Well guess what? Without Intelectual Property laws Macintosh wouldn't bother writing all their great stuff knowing that everyone and their dog could just copy it for free.
Even Linux makes all its innovations because the community is competing against paid software. Think about it, all the greatest free software out there is trying to be just like their older paid brothers. IP drives the industry, even the free portions of it.
They may be good at hardware design, but they don't "write" great software.
You need look no further than the worst security nightmares ever created....Quicktime and iTunes for Windows. They are both massive memory hogs, using more than Windows itself does after all services are up and running, just for one program and they are both massive security holes.
They make IE look like the most secure software ever written.

As for OS X, they didn't write most of that OS. It's by and large BSD with the MACH microkernel from CMU. Other portions have been handed off to open source teams to work on, then Apple patents that work, claims it as it's own and shuts out the open source team when they've done the will of Apple.

Just look up OpenDarwin to see what Jobs did to that team.

Apple is evil and a great user of other's work.

Steve Jobs said it himself best: "We SHAMELESSLY steal great ideas".
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You gotta be fair here...
Wolfie2K3 28th Apr 2010
Quicktime and iTunes for Windows. They are both massive memory hogs, using more than Windows itself does after all services are up and running, just for one program and they are both massive security holes.
They make IE look like the most secure software ever written.


1.) Don't forget Safari for Windows... It's security track record is just as bad. You know... The original default setting - dropping stuff on your desktop and opening it automatically. Scary...

2.) That last sentence should read "They make IE 6 look like the most secure software ever written." In all fairness, IE 7 and 8, while not being 100% perfect, are lightyears ahead of IE 6 in terms of security.
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Fair? Did you say fair?
ubiquitous one 28th Apr 2010
Quicktime and iTunes for Windows. They are both massive memory hogs, using more than Windows itself does after all services are up and running, just for one program and they are both massive security holes.

Gee, my windoze machine running that stuff doesn't exhibit any of that behavior, but then you probably don't know how to adjust for that, do you.

Besides with multi-core processors out there, it shouldn't really matter, now should it. I mean, that's what you've been saying about bloated Vista for years, so...

1.) Don't forget Safari for Windows... It's security track record is just as bad. You know... The original default setting - dropping stuff on your desktop and opening it automatically. Scary...

Lol... grin Do they still make that?

I thought it died a quiet death by now. Don't tell me you were one of the stupid idiots that actually used it on windoze.
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Amount to something first then MS will get back to you.
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to be available in a choice of mobile OS's. Hopefully more hw vendors will follow on...
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Now why would consumers....
storm14k 28th Apr 2010
...want viruses and malware all over their devices. No...theres no MS IP in Android. Thats why an NDA was signed.
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Seriously lame trolling...

Try rereading it without your troll glasses on and you'll see i said nothing about putting windows on/in them and nothing about MS IP being in android.
  • Flagged
from HTC for no reason then.

How great is this? Google gets nothing, exept the ability to build a bridge to their advertising empire (they and Apple are not that much different in their approaches to revenue)
yet there is a Ka-ching at MS every time a Google OS goes out the door. LOL.

Hysterical. And you say it has nothing to do with Android?

BTW, Google is getting hacked like they are clueless about security, and I'm not talking about what systems, because it was only Windows in one case and Google was the company controlling that network, not Microsoft, but that is by no means the only major security problem Google has faced nor will it be the last ...and malware is finding it's way onto Apple's ipad and OS X more and more as their share increases...
Yet you have to make a 1990s reference that doesn't even show a problem with Windows since there was no other mass market OS at that time to compare to. Even as late as 1999, Linux had been open for almost 10 years and was still not even close to a working OS. Do you realize how fast Linux would have been hacked in 1999 if it were distributed to a mass market?

Hell, companies like Apache and Ubuntu themselves can't keep their servers from getting nuked today, so your 90s windows rhetoric falls quite flat there bud.
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You got that wrong
kirovs@... 28th Apr 2010
HTC is just one of the Android OS users. I have not seen anyone else paying MS. If they have more cash than they need that's fine. Let's see if MS could get Google to cough up some cash. I seriously doubt that.
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Maemo, Meego?
hill60 28th Apr 2010
Linux based Nokia and Nokia/Intel based OS's.

Will they be next?
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They've both already worked with MS to get
Johnny Vegas 28th Apr 2010
Silverlight support for their os so I wouldnt be surprised. We need to have viable independent handset manufactuers competing to keep the hw evolving quickly and the prices down. This will keep apple from forcing them out of the market.
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Both
Bruizer 28th Apr 2010
The competitive landscape in mobile is going play out as a great
film over the next couple of years. Google, Apple, Nokia, Microsoft,
Adobe, Samsung, HTC, LG... Each have their own plans and see
each other as some time partners and part time competitors. At
end of the rainbow is a huge pot of advertising Dollars.

For example. Apple has issues with Flash so Google is willing to
give up analytics embedded in millions of Flash ads for a
percieved competitive advantage over Apple. So Google friends
up to Adobe knowing in a year or so their AdMob will be
competing with Adobe's Omniture.

Love triangles everywhere.
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Except for one teeny, tiny thing...
Wolfie2K3 28th Apr 2010
Isn't Google and Apple in bed together with regards to HTML5...?
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handbag $33

AF tank woman $17

puma slipper woman $30
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Interesting, so even going linux you can't get away from Microsoft. That is going to hurt the linux fanboy culture. LOL!
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Re: Interesting..
rossdav@... 28th Apr 2010
Loverock, don't you have anything better to do?
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No
Loverock Davidson 28th Apr 2010
I see nothing wrong with commenting on this news article. I'm actively engaging in discussion.
  • Flagged
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Mommy's calling you
ubiquitous one 28th Apr 2010
Run! Run! Run!

lol... grin
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hardening HTC's resilience to IP litigation works out better for the Android operating system. Sit back, take a deep breath and deal with it.

Regardless of what idealists/purists might want to think, corporate-backed Linux-based OSes like Android and background agreements like this are exactly what Linux has needed all along to gain traction of any significance (all without mentioning your pet word 'Linux'). And to think your beloved MS is any ally in all this - heart-breaking really!

Anyway; don't worry ole' chap; maybe they'll release a mobile BSD OS with Firefox to keep your spirits up... come to think of it; Firefox has made it's way to the Android - why not compromise and take it for a spin, Lovey - I mean; there's no mention of the dreaded 'Linux' word...
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But it still involves MS
Loverock Davidson 28th Apr 2010
so linux just can't get a break from MS! Tell me that isn't awesome.

Just to correct you, you probably won't see FreeBSD on a phone, if anything they would use NetBSD as its more portable.
  • Flagged
0 Votes
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Just to correct you Lovey
rikasa 28th Apr 2010
where did I say FreeBSD?

so linux just can't get a break from MS! Tell me that isn't awesome.... sniff... sniff...struggling to maintain fabricated euphoria front... oh Steve! What ARE you doing?!!! AAAGGGHHHH!!!!!
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Ok you didn't
Loverock Davidson 28th Apr 2010
I misread, you said BSD not FreeBSD. Anyways, they'd still use NetBSD, or possible one of the smaller versions like MicroBSD if its still around.
  • Flagged
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So you are human after all
rikasa 28th Apr 2010
Nice to see 'humble' every now and then. BTW: I'm not particularly offended by MS's participation in all this. Should I be?
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Linux and Microsoft are linked...
DonRupertBitByte 28th Apr 2010
While Linux will not be taking over the desktop market anytime soon, Linux does keep Microsoft in check on the server side.
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Windows Server
WilErz 28th Apr 2011
@ DonRupertBitByte

Linux has slowed the expansion of Windows Servers's market share, but not held it in check. According to IDC and Gartner, Windows only overtook Unix in hardware revenue 5 years ago (2006), but it's now got about half the hardware revenue (I don't know if it's actually passed the 50 per cent mark yet). In unit terms, Windows is even more dominant, with over 70 per cent of server unit shipments, and both numbers tend to increase steadily every year.

As a server OS, Linux provides competition and helps to keep prices down (especially in the web server market, which Linux inherited from Sun/Unix), but its most notable achievement has probably been to help Microsoft kill Unix, hastening the collapse of Unix vendors like Sun Microsystems.
I don't see how licensing Microsoft technologies will help HTC in their patent dispute with Apple. After all, it is Apple, not Microsoft that holds most of the patents to 'multi-touch'. Many say that 'prior art' will win the day, which is laughable when it's obvious these people don't even know what prior art is. For example: if I said I was going to patent the idea for car headlights, people would laugh. That's because the public at large holds what car headlights already are in common - in other words, that's prior art! Some people may have been developing, even showing off multi-touch demos, but the public at large had absolutely no common knowledge of what it was until Apple unveiled it first on the iPhone! Not only that, they patented it first! If I said, for months, that I was going to buy a lotto ticket with the numbers 1,2,3,4,5 and six, but I don't to bother to buy the ticket, while someone else does, and later those same numbers are drawn - who wins the lottery? Do I, because I demonstrated I was thinking of buying a ticket with those numbers, or does the person who actually took the effort to actually buy the ticket? The answer is obvious as is the Microsoft's agreement with HTC!
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You don't know **** about patent validity.
Lester Young 28th Apr 2010
Least of all, how parallel development and prior art affect it. As much as you love to claim otherwise, Apple's claims to multi-touch and other features are invalid on the basis of obviousness, regardless of who was first to market with it. Public awareness is not the basis on which patent claims are settled.
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I'm going to patent fingers...
Narg 28th Apr 2010
That way anyone with a hand will have to pay me royalties.

The patent system is broke. Lawsuits based on minute little parts of a big product should be thrown out.
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Don't bother...
Hallowed are the Ori 28th Apr 2010
Apple will just come along with the iFinger and proudly proclaim "they innovated it, it was all their idea, and nobody else could have ever done it".
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I find some of Apple's patents offensive
Roque Mocan 28th Apr 2010
While there may be some valid patents and innovative things about Apple, I find this particularly offensive: When you delete an App, and the icon dissappears, the other icons arrange to close up the space - why is this an Apple patent? I do this with my Windows desktop all the time with the Auto Arrange Icons.
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Oh my....
Hallowed are the Ori 28th Apr 2010
GASP!!!! Are you admitting that you are willfully infringing on Apple patents with your use of auto-arrange in Windows???
0 Votes
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RE: Is the Microsoft-HTC patent deal more about Linux or Apple?
jackson1984-24316069205748857739440257893812 10th Oct
Howdy,The concept of your respective respective weblog web page is kind of match to me, I really hope all the more alternate with black ugg you this Motive.

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