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Kin: More proof that warring fiefdoms rule at Microsoft

By | July 1, 2010, 8:54am PDT

We Microsoft watchers are all armchair quarterbacking today, the day after Microsoft basically pulled the plug on its short-lived Kin phones for the teen/twenty-something market.

The pricey Verizon data plan killed it, some say. Microsoft decision to redo the Java-centric Danger OS and turn it into a Windows Embedded Compact one marked the beginning of the end, say others. A lack of downloadable apps, weird ad campaigns, phones that attempted to straddle the feature-phone/smartphone market all are cited as the Kin’s undoing.

But I haven’t seen many folks look closely at the Kin development timeline.

In the early days of its development, Kin (then known as Pink), was going to share the same core as Windows Mobile 7. But Microsoft decided to do a Longhorn-style reset and scrapped the WM 7 project. One result was a delay in the delivery of its next mobile operating system. In fact, neither the Windows Embedded Compact 7 core, nor the Windows Phone 7 operating system has been released to manufacturing yet. That meant the Kin team couldn’t use these components; they had to use an older version of the Windows Embedded Compact operating system.

A couple of May posts on the anonymously-penned Mini Microsoft blog made reference to the internal skirmishes over the operating system for the Kin phones. Yes, these comments are anonymous and could be from trolls rather than actual Softies, but they’re pretty detailed if they’re fake. Here are two pertinent comments:

Anonymous said:

Glad you named KIN, as I used to work there until few months ago. KIN was a great and ambitious project…until May 2009. The business, marketing, design vision was just spectacular! In May 2009, Mr. Myerson, decided to kill it because it was competing with his own baby, WP7. Since WP7 was not ready (still today is by far ready!) the exec told him KIN would continue. As retaliation, he killed the support of his team to KIN project. Guess what? KIN team had to take over a lot of base code postponing all the value added apps+services. Now you get why there is lack of apps on KIN. Who will win in medium/long term? Mr Myerson obviously, that’s why I decide to leave.

Monday, May 31, 2010 10:29:00 AM

(The “Mr. Myerson” here is Terry Myerson, the head of Windows Phone engineering.)

An “Anonymous” retort to the original “Anonymous”:

The previous poster conveniently neglects the fact that Kin’s original plans were unrealistic - they were going to release a WP7 based device before WP7 was complete. It ignores the fact that the core WP7 team needed to focus on shipping a WP7 phone and that supporting a different additional hardware platform runs counter to that.

Since WP7 was not ready (still today is by far ready!) the exec told him KIN would continue. As retaliation, he killed the support of his team to KIN project.

Had KIN management had any accountability, they would have built on top of the WP7 platform instead of grabbing several hundred people to do a one-off and then whining about the lack of support for an off platform device.

Guess what? KIN team had to take over a lot of base code postponing all the value added apps+services. Now you get why there is lack of apps on KIN. Who will win in medium/long term? Mr Myerson obviously, that’s why I decide to leave.

Of course, the fact that for the 1st two years the Kin plan was NOT to provide a competing application platform seems to have gone unnoticed in your little post.

The beauty of Kin is indeed the online services, which should translate well to WP7 when the time comes. Everything else is a flaming turd. This is one of those cases where MCB should have gotten all of its wood behind one arrow. Instead, management spent millions on Danger and defocused the core teams on sideshow oddities such as Kin….

Tuesday, June 01, 2010 11:33:00 AM

Next page: So is Sinofsky the winner who will take all?

Topics

Mary Jo has covered the tech industry for more than 25 years for a variety of publications and Web sites, and is a frequent guest on radio, TV and podcasts, speaking about all things Microsoft-related. She is the author of Microsoft 2.0: How Microsoft plans to stay relevant in the post-Gates era (John Wiley & Sons, 2008).

Disclosure

Mary-Jo Foley

Freelance journalist/blogger Mary Jo Foley has nothing to disclose. WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get). I do not own Microsoft stock or stock in any of its partners or competitors. I have no business ventures that are sponsored by/funded by Microsoft or any of its partners or competitors.

Biography

Mary-Jo Foley

Mary Jo Foley has covered the tech industry for 25 years for a variety of publications, including ZDNet, eWeek and Baseline. She has kept close tabs on Microsoft strategy, products and technologies for the past 10 years. In the late 1990s, she penned the award-winning "At The Evil Empire" column for ZDNet, and more recently the Microsoft Watch blog for Ziff Davis.

Got a tip? Send her an email with your rants, rumors, tips and tattles. Confidentiality guaranteed.

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RE: Kin: More proof that warring fiefdoms rule at Microsoft
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I don't know, design decisions need to be made in any project. I still say this was a Verizon issue. The $30 plan wasn't worth it as well as Verizon being known for charging a ridiculous subscription fee for their apps. This stinks more of Verizon than anything behind the scenes at Microsoft.
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@DonnieBoy
Verizon probably gave them a large sum of money to do so, then once the deal was done Verizon turned around and charged excessive amounts. The deal was good until Verizon went bad.
just move over to another carrier. If Kin is a good phone, its fate does NOT rest with just one carrier.
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This is Microsoft's fault, not Verizon's
gjafg Updated - 1st Jul 2010
You can't blame Verizon.

The Kin automatically uploaded every photo to Microsoft's server. This used a huge amount of network data. That's not Verizon's fault. That's Microsoft's fault for bringing to market a data-hog phone that would hence be unaffordable by its target market.
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@Market Analyst
I can and did and proved why.
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MS failures are always someone else's fault
Richard Flude 1st Jul 2010
This one a Verizon issue;-)
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@Richard Flude
Exactly, glad to see you admit it now.
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@Loverock Davidson And again the KIN is/ was a smartphone not a feature phone so VZW charged the customers for a smartphone data plan. Microsoft could have taken the KIN to Sprint or made a version that works with AT&T or T-Mobile but I can guarantee that every other carrier would have seen the KIN as a smartphone and charged for the data plans accordingly.
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I think the main question, has MS missed the boat for good?
TripleII-21189418044173169409978279405827 1st Jul 2010
They seem to have been caught completely flat footed in all things mobile, and with iPhone and Android, RIM and Intel, etc, is there really going to be any way for MS to regain or compete in the mobile space? They have no leverage enforce Windows Mobile (whatever the name will be) as the only way to get things done.

It's a serious question I have. It's 2Q 2010, and MS might have an offering in the wild on a phone in 2Q2011. By then, is it simply too late?

TripleII
@DonnieBoy MS is way behind all the mobile phone OS's
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We can see Microsoft running around like the Keystone Kops.

Software programmers would be mad to invest any time or resources into the Microsoft Mobile Fiasco. Windows Phone 7 will fail just like all Microsoft's other mobile devices.
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If you say so!
Lester Young 1st Jul 2010
@Market Analyst Gosh, since you're a Market Analyst you must know what you're talking about!
@Market Analyst What company do you work for cause I want to make sure none of my money is there.

Do you have any idea how many programmers there are out there that are writing in XNA and Silverlight today? The pool of developers for Windows Phone is enormous and today those people do not write for the iphone. Windows Phone is a chance for them use their talents to increase their income and you can bet that they will do just that.

The only want it will not happen is if they are foolish enough to believe people like you that tell them its a lost cause, just like the Apple fanboys told the Linux developers 20 months ago stating that they iphones lead was insurmountable.

Look at history and you will be able to tell the future.
@chieftom:

"Do you have any idea how many programmers there are out there that are writing in XNA and Silverlight today?"

If no one buys the phone, how will these alleged legions of programmers make any money?

...and what do we have to go one besides your bald assertions, anyway? Can you back up any of the talk? I'm asking this because all of these iPhone-hating XNA/Silverlight developers you refer to seem to be conspicuously absent.

(damn - nasty ol' logic sucks sometimes, doesn't it?)

Personally, I see Microsoft has having to do three things in order to remain relevant in the mobile biz:

1) come up with a mobile OS that not only meets what's out there, but beats it.
2) get Verizon and a boatload of other carriers to offer BOGO deals on phones running WinMo 7... like they do with the Android now.
3) literally give away the licenses to have any hope of not being ignored in favor of the Android (which costs $0.00 per phone, appears to be popular, is far more customizable, and has more features now than WinMo 7 is proposed to have at launch).
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@TripleII IMHO Microsoft missed the boat by a few years - instead of deriding the iPhone and keeping on with the WM 6x platform they should have put more effort into revamping their ancient mobile OS and developed WP7 earlier... instead they just plodded along with WM and it wasn't until Android made their big entrance on the mobile scene that Microsoft began to take things seriously.
@athynz MS is stuck in the nineties, incapable of innovation. Their cash cows Windows, Office and Server software is just going thru the motions. It may take 10 or 20 years but the picture is pretty clear... a dinosaur extinction a la Polaroid or Kodak.

Meanwhile, Google and Apple are leading the way...
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@TripleII No, I don't see room for them in the consumer space...Android and iPhones are very advanced and it will be hard to 'wow' people with a 1.0 OS version and a promise of updates to follow, even if they were releasing phones today.

But what they could/should do is go after the enterprise/professional users. I completely agree with Jason Perlow on this. They will need some very good phones, that are global-capable, and probably with hardware keyboards and *optional* cameras. And they need really tight security, encryption, remote admin/wipe, top-of-the-line mobile Office apps, all of which is well within their reach.

If they went this way, they could almost certainly dislodge RIM, and demonstrate that the platform is viable enough for 3rd-party app developers to support. This in turn would allow them to gradually push into the consumer space.

But I don't think they will go this way. I think they will try to go head-to-head with Droids and iPhones, and fail miserably, because they won't be able to compete with Android's price or development cycle, nor will they be able to replicate the iPhone's consumer appeal.
@TripleII I don't think so. The iphone launched 3.5 years ago, Android launched about 20 months ago and in the month of May outsold the iphone. How can anyone write of WinPho7 after seeing how quickly the market can swing. People said that Android could never catch up to the iphone because of the huge advantage Apple had with the App store. Well, they have. Microsoft has as good a chance as Android did 20 months ago.

The smartphone market is a constantly moving. There is no beginning and there is no end, it is always evolving. There will always be room for a new player to enter the market and change the landscape just as Apple did 3.5 years ago
to the failure. No group in Microsoft is free to go out and innovate the best way they know how. Rule one is that you can NOT cannibalize or reduce the value in any way of Windows or Office.
@DonnieBoy This is why MSFT is doomed. They cling bitterly to the past instead of innovating and take what comes. if they have to lay off 50% of their workforce, so be it.
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It's been the opposite problem.
Lester Young 1st Jul 2010
@DonnieBoy The problem has been teams with a roll-your-own approach to innovation and no system for oversight and co-ordination. But a unified vision of UX does seem to be emerging in their more recent products. Maybe that's from the rise of Sinofsky.
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When have they ever innovated?
Richard Flude 1st Jul 2010
Windows and Office is all they have, neither was innovative.

MS is a product of good fortune (PC clone market by Compaq et al and a non-exclusive licensing deal signed with IBM) and the network effect. Well done whilst it lasted but markets change and in the end if you'll be exposed.

Despite the PR campaign by Gates and Ballmer; MS has never innovated anything.
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and gave away the dataplans for free with a paid phone contract of $20 or $30? Then they could make up the difference selling smartphones.

The money is in the hardware, not in this software stuff.
@HollywoodDog - The money is actually in the ongoing service contract. The hardware is simply a means to getting that service contract.

Same with Windows and Office in the enterprise.
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Not likely.
Random_Walk 4th Jul 2010
@HollywoodDog: Not seeing that one happen - Microsoft would also have to snap up a hardware maker as well.

You're right that the money isn't in the mobile OS, which is pretty much what's dooming Microsoft in the first place. They have to try, lest their Windows/Office near-monopoly begins to erode. OTOH, they can't compete with free (Android) ad the handset maker level, or with a pure vertical integrator who is rather innovative and massively popular (iPhone).
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The Kin website was hilarious, if not kinda sad. Desperately trying to look cool, it was TOO edgy, TOO hip, TOO everything. Most of us just want a phone that does certain things well. The Kin made us feel like we had to be a 19 year old hipster who wears a knit cap and has underground raves in abandoned warehouses.
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I believe the whole Kin thing is just is a distraction. I think Windows Phone 7 (WP7) will do very well against the iPhone and others. The overall Operating System (OS), as well as MS and third party applications, seem slicker and richer. E.g. this app , and this app seem pretty cool. Even more boring apps like this one show that Windows Phone 7 apps will more likely be better and more appealing than other smartphone apps. Also the panoramic hub application model makes applications seem roomy and not cramped like you find on other smartphones.

I think the tile section of WP7 could be spruced up a bit more with slick themes and an auto color blending feature, that ensures that pictures and other graphic elements displayed on tiles, do not clash with the overall coloring of the tiles. This may seem like nit picking, but I believe that the tile section can become ugly very quickly with disparate coloring among elements, making a primary screen of the phone become an eye sore. (I believe a similar, though not so serious problem exists within the Pictures hub, where the background picture can clash with picture thumbnails on top.) Also I think it would be great if the names of elements in applications were standardized to have their characters capitalized consistent with the PC convention. E.g. the months in the Calendar hub application are written as "january", "february" ... instead of as "January", "February" ... In the Office hub application, the names of programming elements are written the way I suggested. E.g. "SharePoint" instead of "sharepoint". Again, this may seem like nit picking, but it leads to inconsistency in how programming elements are named, which undermines the finish and professional appearance if the OS. (You can look at this video to see what I'm talking about.) Overall, I think WP7 is coming along nicely.
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@P. Douglas I think WP7 is too little too late - the iPhone dealt them a major blow with it's success - success that has continued to this very day - and then Android came along and gave WM the death blow... Even when WP7 comes out it will lack copy/paste and readily available apps. This issue with the KIN will make the average consumer think twice before buying any WP-based device...
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Well, it is all too obvious to me
Economister 1st Jul 2010
Ballmer is not running the show the way a CEO is supposed to. If there are warring factions tearing the company apart, there is only one man to blame - Ballmer.

He hires, fires, promotes and demotes, but most of all, he is supposed to lead with a firm hand and strategic vision.

The longer he remains in charge, the worse it will get IMHO.
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How ironic that Microsoft of 2010 is being plagued by the same folly that took down Apple and Steve Jobs back in 1985. Wars between Apple II Division and Macintosh team as well a feud between the CEO and Jobs. Now this is sort of being replicated in Microsoft 20 plus years later. Instead of dog eat dog, Microsoft desperately needs to get their house in order. If not, they are headed to the path of IBM.
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What is really needed....
dpatjhh 2nd Jul 2010
A phone for us old fogies. Large print, fun, easy like the Kin.
In the words of Former Microsoft VP, Dick Brass:

"At Microsoft," he wrote, "[competition] has created a dysfunctional corporate culture in which the big established groups are allowed to prey upon emerging teams, belittle their efforts, compete unfairly against them for resources, and over time hector them out of existence. It's not an accident that almost all the executives in charge of Microsoft's music, e-books, phone, online, search and tablet efforts over the past decade have left." http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/04/opinion/04brass.html?_r=1

When Mr Brass penned this opinion piece back in Feb, many at MS tried to shut him down in disagreement. But we are seeing the Kin as yet another example of this dysfunctional culture at MS, headed by a CEO that, unlike a Steve Jobs or Google CEO's is just not hands on on anything besides the numbers.
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All great empires run out of outside enemies
Yagotta B. Kidding 2nd Jul 2010
At which point, factions within them turn against each other. This is completely normal.

It's the way that Intel has been run for decades. You notice how it's totally crippled Intel in the marketplace? Expect the same fate for Microsoft.
@Yagotta B. Kidding: There is a difference (disclosure - I used to work for Intel).

Intel actually does foster new groups, and goes out of its way to give that new group time and effort to stand or fall on its own merits. For instance, in my own experience, I worked for a group that existed long before the Atom processor came out... about six months after I left, I watched my old group (like quite a few others) get absorbed by Atom once it became obvious that Atom was a bigger success, was more flexible, etc.

Also, if you knew anything about how Intel worked, a quick look at the history of the NetBurst technology (may it rot in Hell), or at how the once officially-blessed Itanium fared (hehe) would give you a very good indication that Intel does not cannibalize, it does tend to foster new thinking (even if it doesn't work so hot), and overall does not give any consideration to any group - no matter how long it's been around, or how big it may be. To top it off, the layoff slaughter of 2007 was a perfect example of how Intel periodically cleans house.
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It's all about Apple and Android
skelden 2nd Jul 2010
As long as Google and Apple are competing, Microsoft is done for.
My theory is that all Microsoft product names that have "Kin" in them, are doomed to failure!

Thus, the Kin, and Kinnect as well, are doomed to fail! happy
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Made up words?
SteelTrepid 2nd Jul 2010
That fiefdoms word just sounds too stupid. Stupid enough for me to research the term. It is nice to see the writers here using word incorrectly and/or make up words just to try and look cool. I'm so glad I wasted five minutes of my life with all this crap!

Other than that, the article is slightly interesting. Nice stuff to know, if it is true.
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