Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates to take the stand in Novell-Microsoft trial

By | November 21, 2011, 7:02am PST

Summary: Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates may take the stand this week in an ongoing Novell vs. Microsoft antitrust case involving events that happened in the mid-1990s. Yawn.

This week, Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates is slated to take the stand as a witness for Microsoft in the ongoing Novell Microsoft antitrust trial.

Yawn.

The reason I haven’t been glued to the proceedings this time around — as opposed to when I was covering over a decade ago the U.S. Department of Justice vs. Microsoft antitrust trial?  It’s ancient history. Novell may or may not get money, depending on the ultimate ruling, but will any policies or products change as a result? No.

This is a trial about events that occurred in the mid-1990s when Microsoft was developing Windows 95. It centers around WordPerfect — a product Novell sold to Corel 12 years ago. Novell itself was purchased recently by Attachmate.

What’s the back story behind Novell’s beef? In 2004, Novell settled one potential antitrust suit with Microsoft involving NetWare for $536 million. But Novell refused to settle with Microsoft over antitrust claims around its WordPerfect and Quattro Pro products at that time.

Novell claimed Microsoft withheld interoperability information it needed to enable those products to run well on Windows. Microsoft tried to get Novell’s complaint dismissed, claiming that it was Novell’s “own mismanagement and poor business decisions” that tanked WordPerfect and Quattro Pro. Plus, Microsoft argued, since Novell sold WordPerfect to Corel over a decade ago, their claims should be barred under the Statute of Limitations.

The majority of Novell’s claims in this matter had previously been dismissed. A federal appeals court judge agreed earlier this year to allow the remaining unsettled claims to proceed.

As reported last week by The Salt Lake Tribune:

An email Gates wrote in October 1994, 11 months before the launch of Windows 95, is at the heart of Novell’s case. In it, Gates, who was CEO at the time, decided to not include several software code features in Windows 95, the highly successful personal computer operating system released in August 1995.”

I am one who believes Microsoft officials engaged in a number of practices that abused the company’s monopoly power in the 1990s. But Microsoft already has been on trial for those activities and was required to adjust some of its policies as a result. Whether or not one believes the company was judged justly, the industry has moved on at a rapid pace since then.

Novell is claiming it lost $1 billion because of Microsoft’s alleged anticompetitive actions and is said to be seeking tens of millions of dollars in damages from Microsoft. The Novell-Microsoft trial, which has been going on for three-plus weeks, is at its projected half-way mark.

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Mary Jo has covered the tech industry for more than 25 years for a variety of publications and Web sites, and is a frequent guest on radio, TV and podcasts, speaking about all things Microsoft-related. She is the author of Microsoft 2.0: How Microsoft plans to stay relevant in the post-Gates era (John Wiley & Sons, 2008).

Disclosure

Mary-Jo Foley

Freelance journalist/blogger Mary Jo Foley has nothing to disclose. WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get). I do not own Microsoft stock or stock in any of its partners or competitors. I have no business ventures that are sponsored by/funded by Microsoft or any of its partners or competitors.

Biography

Mary-Jo Foley

Mary Jo Foley has covered the tech industry for 25 years for a variety of publications, including ZDNet, eWeek and Baseline. She has kept close tabs on Microsoft strategy, products and technologies for the past 10 years. In the late 1990s, she penned the award-winning "At The Evil Empire" column for ZDNet, and more recently the Microsoft Watch blog for Ziff Davis.

Got a tip? Send her an email with your rants, rumors, tips and tattles. Confidentiality guaranteed.

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RE: Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates to take the stand in Novell-Microsoft trial
prof123 28th Nov
@William Farrell
I remember when WordPerfect came out for Windows 3.1. There was a noticeable delay in graphics (font painting) compared to the MS Word product. It was obvious that MS developers had access to OS internals which were not published and were able to bypass many OS layers to get a much faster response time.

This is the crux of the matter. MS, as a creator of the Windows OS had an unfair advantage as a competitor of WordPerfect. For this reason Word gained market share and WordPerfect lost it...
As soon as he thought it was safe.
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Safe to lie again???
i8thecat4 22nd Nov
Willy Gates is going to do the same thing he did last time... Play stupid and lie his arse off, sticking to his "Um, I don't recall" statements... Not even sure why they would bother calling him back to the stand... For someone with a documented history of having an incredible memory, he is somehow able to BS the courts with blatent lies... I just don't get it.
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Then where's Microsoft Office for the iPad?
Rabid Howler Monkey Updated - 21st Nov
You can rest assured that if the DOJ had split Microsoft into both an operating system company and an application company it would already be in Apple's iPad App Store.

The DOJ's disposition of the Microsoft antitrust case was grossly incomplete. And the Novell-Microsoft trial currently underway over WordPerfect and Quattro Pro is a reminder of this. As with the Windows operating system on the desktop, the office suite market is still owned by Microsoft.
@Rabid Howler Monkey

Not really. More and more people are switching to Open/LibreOffice as time goes on. I personally switched to it about 2 years ago when it was still called OpenOffice, then switched to LibreOffice when the spat between the developers came up and another one was passed off.
@Lerianis10 I am a FLOSS advocate, but I am not delusional to think that MS does not own the office suite market. For every new OO user, there are many more new MS Office users.

I have been around long enough to be convinced that MS anticompetitive practices lead to that advantage.
@Lerianis10

Maybe Google Docs can get some significant market share, but Libre....Im still laughing.
@Lerianis10
I.m 61, and in my 4'th month of an online college.
I need a dependable stable office suite.
I tried open office, it was very difficult and counter-intuitive to operate.
Then I read about Libre Office, uninstalled open office to try Libreoffice.
The attempted install told me that I didn't have enough hard drivespace. I only have 1.5 TB free.
I went downtown and bought Office 10.
I've never been happier.
JK
@Lerianis10
Libre Office is OK, but have you seen softmaker Office? Better filters, and yes I know that it is not free, but their previous version, softmaker 2008, is free! There is a modest fee for the current version, but if you are cheap or lucre deprived as I am, the previous version, which shall always be free, is quite good.
@Rabid Howler Monkey

And when will the DOJ split Apple into hardware and software companies? Splitting up Microsoft would have created two monopolies, not broken one up.
@guyonearth No it wouldn't have, at least if it was split into OS, software and consumer/mobile/other. Software bundling, the ability to include "undocumented features" in the OS that their own software then took advantage of, and lots of other practices that were documented in the trial would have become impossible under such an arrangement. The OS monopoly profits wouldn't have been able to float other losing ventures, etc.
@Rabid Howler Monkey
Your first mistake was getting an iPad, your second mistake is thinking that Microsoft would allow its direct os rival to have the best business productivity suite around. Your solution would be to get a WP7.5, use windows, and sell your stocks of apple, cuz they're gonna be dead and/or irrelevant in less than 2 years without the product repackaging king Steve jobs around!
@simianthe liver

Wow, way to miss the point. Just... wow.
@Rabid Howler Monkey
Yes, the Office suite market is owned by Microsoft and the iTunes market is owned by Apple. Fairs fair?
Plus, the iPad is not well suited to a full Office suite. Aside from the limited screen space, limited memory, restricted storage, restrictive App controls and poor cpu there is the little issue of NO ARM PORT existing yet. Your point if there was one is completely moot.....
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Mary Jo, are you tired? Not getting much sleep?
Dietrich T. Schmitz * Your Linux Advocate 21st Nov
I guess you've colored this story the way you want the readership to view it. Yes?

Based on what I am seeing (Microsoft vs B&N), the New Microsoft is just the same Old Microsoft.

Only this time around, they are getting charged with:

Extortion

Folks if you really want to have a set of facts on what is or isn't happening, stop by Groklaw.net.

They specialize there on legal matters, unlike ZDNet.
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Groklaw is not an unbiased site
toddybottom 21st Nov
@Dietrich T. Schmitz * Your Linux Advocate
From Groklaw:
"First, it's a journalistic enterprise, with interviews, research, and reporting of legal events important to the FOSS community"

No, it isn't a journalistic enterprise because they admit to only wanting to defend FOSS.
"we can contribute to the defense of Linux, the kernel, and Free and Open Source Software (FOSS)."

Groklaw is the IT equivalent to the Iraqi Ministry of Truth.

Groklaw is not a good source of news. It is a good source of FUD. Some of it will happen to be true but it will always be presented with a pro-FOSS and it will always leave out pieces of information that are relevant if they do not contribute to "the defense of Linux, the kernel, and Free and Open Source Software (FOSS)."

So no, Groklaw is not a good place to get a set of facts on what is or isn't happening.
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And zdnet is?
ego.sum.stig@... 21st Nov
I hope that's not what you're implying.
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Never said or implied that
toddybottom 21st Nov
ZDNet is a blogging platform and some of the bloggers (like SJVN) are heavily biased. So no, ZDNet is not a good source of news. It is a good source of current events which can then be followed up on by looking at news sites. Groklaw too is a blogging platform however it is even worse than ZDNet because Groklaw will not allow anything to be posted that does not contribute to the defense of Linux or FOSS. It is right there in the "About Groklaw" page.
@ego.sum.stig..

Don't pay him any attention. He is like a cockroach that after you step on it, it gets up and walk away. And you will see him again.
@toddybottom

During the SCO trial, Groklaw was THE source for unbiased information. You could see copies of the court transcripts there and nowhere else. Saying it is not a good place to get facts is like saying Iowa is no place to get corn.
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Medianese
Robert Hahn 21st Nov
@toddybottom
I've solved the problem of the anti-MS bias on Groklaw by reading your notes here on ZDNet. I add their bias to your bias, divide by two, and so approximate the truth.
@toddybottom You're reminding me of the survey results that came out today showing that those who watch no news at all knew more about what was going on in the Middle East than those who watch FOX News. sad You're making a large number of unfounded assertions. It's no different than saying a Democrat is lying "because he isn't a Republican".
You haven't cited one example of poor reporting; you're simply assuming they engage in the same types of partisan spin that you do here at ZDNet every day.

"No, it isn't a journalistic enterprise because they admit to only wanting to defend FOSS... we can contribute to the defense of Linux, the kernel, and Free and Open Source Software (FOSS)." First, your interpretation is a complete fabrication, and second, the quote-mining was blatant. A more full quote would be:

"Our hope is that by working together knowledgeably, pooling our skills, we can contribute to the defense of Linux, the kernel, and Free and Open Source Software (FOSS). One part of the group knows what kinds of things are useful in a court case, another knows the tech to understand what's important technically, others have skills in researching the history of Unix and Linux, and others volunteer to transcribe, attend court hearings, pick up court documents, etc. You will note that we have collected on the Legal Research page links to resources that explain legal terms and concepts at play in this story. " They're defending it by TELLING THE TRUTH, as you saw but omitted or ignored... "Third, it's an antiFUD site. We strive to present solid facts in rebuttal to attempts to smear FOSS with fear, uncertainty, and doubt (FUD), as well as to correct well-meaning but inaccurate portrayals of Linux, GNU/Linux and the FOSS community. In connection with that purpose, we are happy to answer any questions journalists may have or to help them find accurate facts, without any need for credit or attribution. We are willing to do your research for you. We know you have deadlines and may need a helping hand sometimes. You will note that we have a Search tool, as well as a searchable Quote Database, where you can search for and find quotations from the personages involved in the SCO litigation. "

Groklaw was born by covering the SCO case. SCO used FUD to try to convince people that Linux was violating their patents and threatening to sue anyone who used it unless they gave them money. They were unable in court to show any violation of their intellectual property at all and in the end the courts ruled they didn't even hold the UNIX license they claimed they did. But by Groklaw forming to fight this FUD with accurate reporting and research, they become "a good source of FUD" themselves? Really? You're not even trying to put forth a convincing argument anymore.
@toddybottom

I occasionally do not agree with you, but today is not that day. You hit the nail on the head.
@Return_of_the_jedi

+ 1

And that includes the FuzzyWuzzy thinking of some around here.
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@Dietrich T. Schmitz * Your Linux Advocate
Folks, stopping by Groklaw.net will give the anti-MS crowd what they want to hear, not what's the truth.

So why even bother?
@William Farrell
After all, you could all be absolutely anyone...
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Zogg: Groklaw is a great news site for you
toddybottom Updated - 21st Nov
It always makes someone feel better when their news provider gives them only the news they want to hear, slants anything neutral into news they want to hear, and hides all news they don't want to hear.

Posters on ZDNet could be anyone but Groklaw is not the least bit shy in admitting that they are blatantly biased in favor of FOSS and really really hate all things Microsoft. In fact, they are proud of it.
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@toddybottom
If you don't like Groklaw's commentary then you can always read the transcripts from the Court. Not even SCO could fault those, despite having every reason to try.

So yes, Groklaw has earned its credibility the hard way over the past eight years. Unlike certain anonymous ZD-Net talkbackers...
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@Zogg
In fact, a blooger here proclaimed how a particular person at Groklaw was really not who they pretended to be from the very start.

Interesting.
plain
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Which blogger was that then?
Zogg Updated - 22nd Nov
@Spock Impersonator
You've got a cheek joining this thread, when you are patently obviously *not* the person you claim to be!

As for your "ZD-Net blogger", why didn't you care to name him? Is it because he has now left ZD-Net in the wake of the SCO fiasco, having been proved wrong in every respect?

His theories weren't even remotely "interesting".
@Toddybottom "It always makes someone feel better when their news provider gives them only the news they want to hear, slants anything neutral into news they want to hear, and hides all news they don't want to hear.

Posters on ZDNet could be anyone but Groklaw is not the least bit shy in admitting that they are blatantly biased in favor of FOSS and really really hate all things Microsoft. In fact, they are proud of it. "

I hate all things genocidal... does that mean anything I write about the Holocaust makes me "blatantly biased"? When Professor Dawkins speaks about evolution or Professor Hawking about cosmology, are they "blatantly biased against creationism" and thus promoters of FUD and disinformation? No, they arrived at their positions through fact-based inquiry and truly believe that what they say is the truth.

In this twisted use of the word "bias" (becoming more popular), the word becomes "anyone who doesn't agree with me". Because the site supports FOSS (and who DOESN"T support FOSS? That's like not supporting puppies) then anything they say can be disregarded in your mind without examining it first. But anyone who tells you what you want to hear no doubt are "fair and balanced" and simply telling it fairly, so their statements don't need to be critically examined either.
Indeed, this is Yawn ... Novell went bust long ago, let them rest in peace.. all they are trying is to milk money for another mansion or two....
@DJK2 A wrong is still a wrong. MS withheld information from Novell/WorldPerfect intentionally (claimed anyway) to gain an advantage over what at the time was a superior Office suite. It effectively killed the Perfect Office Suite and the damages were real. Doesn't matter that it happened in ancient history (in computer time), it was still a wrong that needs to be settled.
@DJK2 Novell went bust long ago? Then whose Linux product am I using right now to write this reply? Who just finished hosting BrainShare 2011 in Salt Lake City with over 2000 attendees? "During the conference, attendees ate 23,000 slices of bacon, drank 486 gallons of beer, and topped it off with 5,600 brownies."

No, Novell is still in existence and was recently bought by Attachmate.
MJ, I'm with you on reporting this. If it's not a story about M$ and the courts or suing, what else is it to talk about.

1. Win8 -- Everyone have zero interest in.
2. Your bi-weekly Bing is gaining on Google.
3. Or your bi-weekly someone signed a NDA.

Did i miss something?

PS. I love your writing style, it's the best.
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This is the money quote
toddybottom 21st Nov
Throughout arguments Friday, U.S. District Judge Frederick Motz openly expressed doubts that Novell's claims had merit.

"I don't see why I have to give a product to a competitor so he can beat me," Motz told Novell attorneys.
@toddybottom I hope someone explained to Motz the concepts of capitalism, competition, and monopoly.
Why should the case be dropped because a few technology journalists are bored because it allegedly happened along time ago? While the alleged crimes committed by Microsoft are not remotely close in the seriousness I am glad the Nazi hunters did not have the attitude expressed here.
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The Nazi hunters had a legitimate case
William Farrell 21st Nov
@edkollin
Novell is looking to sue MS because Novelle made a crappy product in the end.

How is that MS's (or anybodys else's) fault?
@William Farrell

You sure about that? This could be the equivalent of what Microsoft did with Non-MSDOS things during the Windows 3.11 years: put in a 'destroyer' that crashed the system unless you used MSDOS.
@William Farrell You obviously never used the WordPerfect/Quattro products. WP in particular was far superior to Word at the time. I still have users that wish they had Reveal Codes, WPs formatting features, and other features.
@William Farrell I was not discussing the merits of the suit just the idea expressed by the articles writer and many posters that because it allegedly happened a long time ago it don't really count. The merits of the case will be determined by the court not by how long ago the alleged events occurred.
Comment Removed.
Novell is looking to sue MS because Novelle made a crappy product in the end.

@William Farrell
How do you know Novell made a crappy product? Have you ever used it? You can't even spell it properly so that tells us something right there.
@William Farrell
I remember when WordPerfect came out for Windows 3.1. There was a noticeable delay in graphics (font painting) compared to the MS Word product. It was obvious that MS developers had access to OS internals which were not published and were able to bypass many OS layers to get a much faster response time.

This is the crux of the matter. MS, as a creator of the Windows OS had an unfair advantage as a competitor of WordPerfect. For this reason Word gained market share and WordPerfect lost it...
@edkollin
Isn't it internet law that when any off topic reference to Nazis or Hitler is made the thread is automatically dead? Its like the trump card of the ignorant from which no conversation can recover.
@webjim@... But in this case we hit the point of no return far earlier, with Toddybottom's first post. happy
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RE: Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates to take the stand in Novell-Microsoft trial
LoverockDavidson_-24231404894599612871915491754222 21st Nov
A lot of people are yawning at this news. Novell should do the right thing and drop the case. Bill Gates has it easy, if he gets stuck he can just say "I don't recall" since it did happen over 10 years ago. No one is going to remember the details. Not that there was ever a problem in the first place, Microsoft integrated things for my benefit as the consumer. It was Microsoft's products and they didn't need to share the details with outside companies.
@LoverockDavidson_

Are you suggesting he should lie?

The way you've posted makes it sound like he should lie and reflects poorly on your character.
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RE: Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates to take the stand in Novell-Microsoft trial
LoverockDavidson_-24231404894599612871915491754222 21st Nov
@maskman01
Then you misread my post. I never once said he should lie. But should they ask him a question from over 10 years ago the details are going to be pretty fuzzy.
  • Flagged

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