ie8 fix
Click Here

Microsoft: It's business as usual with Windows Phone updates

By | January 7, 2012, 3:34pm PST

Summary: ‘Nothing has changed in regard to how we work with carriers to deliver Windows Phone updates to our customers,’ maintained a Microsoft official following a change in Microsoft’s update disclosure policy.

Microsoft’s January 6 blog post notifying users of a change in communications policies around Windows Phone set off a negative chain reaction of epic proportions.

But things may not be as different — or dire — as some believe, at least according to the Softies.

Here’s the back story: According to late-night (ET) post on January 6 on the Windows Phone blog, Microsoft plans, going forward to no longer be “individually detailing country, model, and carrier details on the Where’s My Phone Update? site. Instead, “the official Windows Phone website will be the primary place for news and information about our updates.” This change was accompanied by an acknowledgement by the WP team that while Microsoft had delivered its so-called “disappearing keyboard” update to carriers, it was up to carriers to decide when and whether to push the update to users.

Cue the negative fallout. Windows Phone users shot back on Twitter, the comments on the Windows Phone blog and elsewhere that they felt betrayed and abandoned by Microsoft — especially after Microsoft officials had made much of the fact that Windows Phone had a more transparent and assured path to receiving updates than Android users did.

“Nothing has changed in regard to how we work with carriers to deliver Windows Phone updates to our customers,” maintained Greg Sullivan, Senior Product Manager on Windows Phone with whom I spoke by phone on January 7.

The word is Microsoft’s policies and procedures around how the company develops updates, delivers them to carriers for testing and delivers them to customers is exactly the same as it was a year ago. If a carrier decides to hold off on delivering a particular service update, it will bundle it into the subsequent update it rolls out to customers.

Regarding Microsoft’s decision to no longer update the “Where’s My Windows Phone Update?” page with country, model and carrier specifics, there’s been no carrier push-back leading to the decision, based on my conversation with Sullivan. The original reason Microsoft created the update table was to repair damaged customer trust after the bad “NoDo” update experience. The claim: If Microsoft were to continue adding each and every new phone model and new carrier relationship, the Windows Phone Update table would have become unwieldy.

Yes, Microsoft’s decision to add service updates and not just major operating system releases to the table did create customer expectations that this would be the way things worked, going forward. But if there are any more updates to the Windows Phone Update page, it sounds like it will be only major operating system releases (like the expected Tango and Apollo), and not any of the interim service updates, firmware updates or patches for particular phone models.

I’m just the messenger here, so don’t shoot me. But after hearing from Sullivan, I’m willing to give Microsoft a chance to prove that we early Windows Phone adopters won’t get the shaft from the carriers. But I will say the “disappearing keyboard update” sounds like it should go to all of us with Windows Phones. If a fix to the SMS-messaging bug that provided a scare late last year is going to follow shortly, I won’t be mad if I have to wait a bit longer for both updates. But I won’t be a happy Windows Phone user if I don’t get any more Windows Phone updates until the next time Microsoft releases a new operating system version for my phone.

Kick off your day with ZDNet's daily e-mail newsletter. It's the freshest tech news and opinion, served hot. Get it.

Topics

Mary Jo has covered the tech industry for more than 25 years for a variety of publications and Web sites, and is a frequent guest on radio, TV and podcasts, speaking about all things Microsoft-related. She is the author of Microsoft 2.0: How Microsoft plans to stay relevant in the post-Gates era (John Wiley & Sons, 2008).

Disclosure

Mary-Jo Foley

Freelance journalist/blogger Mary Jo Foley has nothing to disclose. WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get). I do not own Microsoft stock or stock in any of its partners or competitors. I have no business ventures that are sponsored by/funded by Microsoft or any of its partners or competitors.

Biography

Mary-Jo Foley

Mary Jo Foley has covered the tech industry for 25 years for a variety of publications, including ZDNet, eWeek and Baseline. She has kept close tabs on Microsoft strategy, products and technologies for the past 10 years. In the late 1990s, she penned the award-winning "At The Evil Empire" column for ZDNet, and more recently the Microsoft Watch blog for Ziff Davis.

Got a tip? Send her an email with your rants, rumors, tips and tattles. Confidentiality guaranteed.

58
Comments

Join the conversation!

Just In

RE: Microsoft: It's business as usual with Windows Phone updates
ThinkingSapien 10th Jan
@wittgenfrog - There is a solution, but that's not the same as saying there is a fix available to all user's. Those with unbranded phones seem to be able to get it along with a few other carriers. Here in the USA I have HTC Windows Phones on two of the 4 nation wide carriers and a close friend has a phone on a third carrier. We've not received the fix, support at the carrier is totally ignorant of the fix, and HTC doesn't seem to be able to shed any light on whether or not it's coming, and last week Microsoft posted the blog entry that I can summarize by saying "from here out we'll give you no indication at all whether or not a firmware update for your phone is forthcoming."

So for many of us knowledge about the fix is about as useful as a picture of a glass of water to some one stranded in a hot desert sad
0 Votes
+ -
Mysterious happenings
symbolset 7th Jan
We seem to be in an age of disappearing information. Facebook will now no longer publish statistical usage updates for Android and iOS applications. I wonder what that's about.

Maybe this: www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21458486/
@symbolset more than likely. Microsoft would not want to promote the competition to its own failing product.
0 Votes
+ -
RE: Microsoft: It's business as usual with Windows Phone updates
The Danger is Microsoft Updated - 9th Jan
@symbolset - exactly what does this have to do with this blog entry? While I will always agree that WinPho7,8,9,.... will never be a winner (and hopefully cost Microsoft another boatload of money and no revenue) I do think you should stick to the topic at hand.
@The Danger is Microsoft

Umm, WP7 is a winner. Its users love the product, that makes a winner. Android is a User Experience nightmare. Just because it has the largest market-share doesn't make it a winner. Also, Google has to pay MS $5-15 per phone they sell, how is that make it a winner?
@The Danger is Microsoft

Strange that people actually hope that companies loose money. Of course with WP7 this is not going to happen, the Android revenue is a sure bet Microsoft will be in the plus on mobility for years to come!
I don't see the big deal. The fix will rollout with the Tango update which everyone will get in the next few months. The carriers aren't going to rollout minor updates every couple of months, they don't do that for anyone, not even Apple.

I just hope they're telling the truth that so many Windows phones are coming that the update page would become unwieldy.
@cool8man quite the contrary. Carriers have nothing to do with Apple's updates. If Apple wants to roll out an update every week, they just do it and everybody gets it at the same time. That's the kind of policy Windows Phone advocates want Microsoft to adopt, but instead they are making the update process less transparent and apparently continuing to allow carriers to decide if and when updates are released.
@xpxp2002 Completely Agree!
0 Votes
+ -
@xpxp2002
sold one, identicle Windows phone, as a single update would cover them all.

unfortuneately, there are many different models, with many different features, that it would not be possible.

instead they are making the update process less transparent and apparently continuing to allow carriers to decide if and when updates are released.

That is not accurate. It appears that nothing has changed, as the original process when WP7 was released is no different: A carrier can decide when toi release an updtae, yet it is only within a specific time frame, and if they decide not to release a single update, they can only do so untill the next update, when the previous update will be delivered.

In essence, the best they can do is too delay, not stop and update.
testing prior to deployment just as WP updates are. They just arent transparent about it.
@Johnny Vegas nice lie, but it is just a lie. Apple is more transparent that Microsoft and their game of point the finger. If Microsoft delivered finished updates, rather than having the OEMs/Carriers fish the updates, it would be one thing. Microsoft does not want that little bit of truth out there, but a person that works for a major carrier remarked in private about it.
@xpxp2002 Apple controls the hardware and doesn't have the requirement of OEMs having to test and tweak drives for an individual model, they just do it all for their own hardware. So, what MS is doing is justified and required because of the diferent hardware setups that they cannot test themselves.
@Rick_Kl

There is still carrier approval for iOS. The carriers have too much at stake to risk allowing software in that could take down their whole network.

Apple tests iOS with all carriers, then releases the iOS update when they have approval from ALL carriers. This creates the illusion that Apple releases on it's own schedule without approval from the carriers. Since it is a big bang, there is less need for transparency around the process.

The low number of cell phone models combined with Apple's clout with the carriers gives them this luxury.
0 Votes
+ -
@xpxp2002 - Yes. It does seem as if Microsoft fanbois are ignoring the Windows Phone fragmentation while constantly harping about the Android fragmentation.

Microsoft - desperately trying to copy Apple again, like they have done for the last 25 years, but failing miserably.
@cool8man ... I'm one of the advocates that Microsoft take control of the entire update process just like Apple does. I see no reason why "Windows Update" shouldn't extend to "Windows Phone Update".

In fact, I'd go a step further and say that all the integral "hubs" of Windows Phone should be updatable through the Marketplace as regular apps. There's no excuse why Microsoft can't rollout feature updates on a regular basis. For example, they should be able to update the People hub to increase the amount of Facebook integration (individual comment likes, tagging people in regular posts/comments, video updating, etc.), and it shouldn't require months to do it.

If Microsoft wants to update their voice integration, it should just be another app to update. Likewise, I feel the OEMs and carriers should have their apps (I know AT&T does, but Sprint doesn't) in the marketplace as well and be able to update them as needed.

The core OS should change to be more modular and app-centric in the way Windows 8 is becoming so that updating the OS isn't such a major ordeal. It's much better for ALL parties-- Microsoft, OEM's, carriers, and consumers.
@GoodThings2Life I think the "excuse" that MS uses for why they don't (can't) do things like apple is because apple creates all their own hardware. they KNOW what will work and what won't work, they just need to account for a different antenna, basically.

Since the apple lemmings will buy whatever cupertino says they should, apple gets to walk up to a carrier and say "you're going to do things like this, or this army of buyers is going to go somewhere else" an the carriers oblige; unfortunately it's the only manufacturer that gets to do things this way.

Microsoft, on the other hand, doesn't create its own hardware so it is left to a bunch of middlemen to get things out the door. They create the OS patches, then ship them to Samsung, HTC, etc. Those OEMs have to finaggle all that in w/ their OS and other customizations (god forbid they just use the raw OS) and test it, then the OEM has to push it to a carrier which has to (now) decide if they want it, and then test it on their network w/ their provisions and allowed capabilities (ie: VZW says "no" to internet sharing)

the only hope I see is if Microsoft can get such a user base as apple where they can re-negotiate the contract w/ the carriers in such a way that "you'll take it whether you like it or not or we'll go elsewhere" means something to the likes of VZW. Until then, don't expect things to change.
  • Flagged
before deployment as well. Apple just hasnt been as transparent as Microsoft about that. As for making individual pieces of WP independently updatable, in theory that sounds good but in practice when they're updating the os multiple times a year anyway the benefits just dont exist.
@bc3tech so anyone with a higher IQ than you is an apple lemming? Nice comment to show your actually IQ level. Just because Apple does not cater to the Walmart crowd, does not degrade he IQ of Apple users. Find out which system is ones by the ;large percentage of people with double digit IQs, and think which group id more lemming like. In a nutshell Microsoft is going to push out half done updates and rely on the Phone OEMs, and Carriers, to make the stuff work.
@GoodThings2Life When it comes to communication changes on the carrior network or device driver interface changes, MS should not trying to do this testing for the carriers. I am sure the carriers do not care to and do not test functionality changes to an application unless it impacts the network or device drivers.
@cool8man

In fact, the business as usual line is 100% correct here. Nowhere have I seen a change in the update procedure on Microsoft's part. On the other hand, I do believe that security updates (like the one that should take care of the "sms" flaw) should NOT be held back by any carrier, and Microsoft should make it clear that such an update is forced to all devices no matter what.
0 Votes
+ -
It ain't a big deal...
cosuna 9th Jan
...because Windows Phone 7 ain't a big deal.

As Howard Stern put it... they are like the "Jews for Jesus" at Penn Station. Very vocal, extremely convinced the have the "truth", but nobody seems to care.

Ironically, if taken literally (and pardon any blasphemy, as it is unintended)... if Apple is a Jew (dogmatic, rigorous and, yet, closed) and Android is Christianity (open ended, liberal, but fragmented and sometimes opposing [Reform vs. Catholic])... Microsoft is that middle ground nobody cares to follow... they are both liberal, but business oriented... playful... but structured (just look at the tiles and cookie cut format)... they have flair... but no depth nor form... way too minimalistic... maybe even Feng Shui-esque... but with an excess of whips and splashs...

Microsoft shoot to create a Spa experience for it's phones, but included a tanning salon on each of them... thus breaking the aura... the worst of both worlds...

So who cares if they upgrade by phone or by carrier... maybe the numbers magically match...
0 Votes
+ -
Howard Who?
PreachJohn Updated - 9th Jan
@cosuna---Try as I might to make some sense of your point(s), I just couldn't find my way there. I did try to follow your somewhat convoluted tho't process.
Methinks your definitions are arbitrary, therefore lacking to be effective in analogy.
Anyway, just who is this Howard Stern, to be pronouncing, pontificating on David Stern, Author of the Complete Jewish Bible?
This Howard Stern clearly imagines himself to be a purveyor of '"truth", but nobody seems to care.'
0 Votes
+ -
Remove older updates like NoDo?
nyc2theworld 7th Jan
At this point NoDo and the update after NoDo but before mango should reach over 90+% distribution. I think a good rule of thumb would be once an update is available for all carriers all devices + at least 90% of each individual device has received the update, you can remove it from the chart. No need to keep NoDo available when Mango will force NoDo to download.
0 Votes
+ -
Business as usual. no big deal
Johnny Vegas 7th Jan
Mango is available to 100% of WP users and only those who haven't synced yet don't have it. Compare to 1% Android users have ics. Clear winner WP
0 Votes
+ -
@Johnny Vegas Let's wait until (if?) Windows has several years of phones in the market and then let's see what % of their users receive and upgrade their OS to the latest version.
@freediverX@... It will be higher that the Android market that will continue to fragment over time as the variety of hardware increases.
0 Votes
+ -
Incorrect Johnny!
PreachJohn 9th Jan
@Johnny Vegas---A cell phone I've got kicking around is hampered by having only the stock WM 6.5 installed.
I've synced it a number of times. No 7.5 ever comes down the pipe.
So, I beg to differ on this niggling point.
early in the mango cycle an answer was provided that basically said a carrier can elect to skip one update, but MUST accept the next, which will include the skipped one. Essentially ensuring that a user will only ever be at most one update behind.
However, this post by MS seems to drop that stipulation, and put the onus wholly on a carrier REQUESTING the update. For those of us on a provider like Verizon Wireless, who has only ONE windows phone offering, and a CTO who openly said (paraphrasing) "we don't need windows phone, we have RIM", it's a dark, dark picture.

The big black eye here is how much they touted their "focus on the customer" w/ the mango rollout, and have now bent over for the carriers just like Android; so people are now expecting Android-like update rollouts.
Time will tell if MS holds itself up to the standard it built w/ Mango, or folds to the almighty greediness that consumes the US carriers... I certainly am hoping for the former, but the cynic in me isn't so sure.
@bc3tech ... in fairness, they don't really have RIM anymore, since RIM has effectively shot itself in the foot this year. However, your point is still valid since they do have Android and iPhone, they still "don't care" about the rest.
@GoodThings2Life that's partially my point, the CTO was so short-sighted as to sign off WP in favor of RIM and look where they are now.
@bc3tech I???d say the CTO of Verizon is just a bit smarter than you are. Why have multiple models of an untested OS? There is very little interest in Windows mobile Phone Man-Goo. After over a year on the market, and several buy on ,get one free sales 1.2% market penetration is sad, just like the OS. The general population rejected it, but we are to believe Microsoft???s Lumia phones are going t magically create interest in that lame OS?
@Rick_Kl someone sounds bitter wink
I never did see the issue with the disappearing keyboard. Mine has always worked great. I have a Dell Venue Pro, don't know if that's why.
I never did see the issue with the disappearing keyboard. Mine has always worked great. I have a Dell Venue Pro, don't know if that's why.
Yeah, honestly we if we're going to have, as consumers, fragmentation with Windows Phone, then we could just stick with Android.

The only platform where the manufacturer fully focuses on the end user, and treats the carriers like the dumb pipes that they should be, is Apple's iOS.
dumb pipes. Cellular networks are still pretty fragile and no cellular network provider is going to allow access to them without prior testing because a relatively small software problem on a pretty small number of handsets can bring down large area of it. That's why yes Apple too has to get ios updates approved first, they just dont make a point of transparency in informing the general public of that the way micrososft has.
@Johnny Vegas enough with the lie. Apple creates a complete update, tests it, and rolls it out. Microsoft creates a partial update, the OEMs add bits to it for their phones, then the carries add their bits.
0 Votes
+ -
Really? Pink unicorns?
scH4MMER 9th Jan
@Theseus - it scares me how people scare so easily. wink

People, if your phone doesn't work the way you want when you buy it, return it within the grace period, otherwise stop freaking out over the subsequent free updates that typically work well but may not sing like perfect little pink unicorns.

I got my WP phone (Focus) for under $50 (with 2-yr contract, which most of us have). My neighbor got his for 1 cent. I really don't care if I fall a month or two behind in minor detail updates. Soon I'll spend another $50 (or less) for a new WP phone with up-to-date hardware (and, of course, software). A "Let's Rock Elmo" costs more, which will never ever be updated with the "turn-by-turn directions" feature we got for free with Mango.
Thanks to Mary Jo for managing to get some response from Microsoft.

Unfortunately I'm far less sanguine than she about this 'skip one' rule that appears to apply. This means that if your carrier can't be bothered to roll out a fix you might have to wait six months, maybe more before the problem is fixed.

Even six months might be an optimistic estimate: HTC HD7 owners are still waiting for a resolution of Zune issues thats been roiling around for ages (over 4 months).
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/winphone/forum/wp7-wpmusic/zune-on-wp7-freezes-between-songs/e862bde0-fd1f-471e-9822-5c7a44746390

There's still no definitive answer to whether or not a fix exists.
Assuming one is 'released' tomorrow we might not get to receive it until its rolled-up with a subsequent update which might not be released until 3 or 4 months after the 'fix' we require.

This isn't MS shooting itself in the foot, they're going to kill WP7\8 before its even started to toddle....
Irrespective of the semantics of MS's position, MS need to implement a 'direct to user' policy like Apple, or like Windows Update.
@wittgenfrog

@wittgenfrog
Updated Firmware pushed OTA by HTC: 2250.21.50001.707

4-Weeks later, I can confirm the HTC firmware update 2250.21.50002.707 fixed the problem. Therefore, it's fair to say Microsoft and Zune did not cause the problem but rather HTC. Appreciate all the comments and suggestions up to this point. This problem may now be considered answered and closed
Its an htc firmware problem that htc needs to fix.
@wittgenfrog - There is a solution, but that's not the same as saying there is a fix available to all user's. Those with unbranded phones seem to be able to get it along with a few other carriers. Here in the USA I have HTC Windows Phones on two of the 4 nation wide carriers and a close friend has a phone on a third carrier. We've not received the fix, support at the carrier is totally ignorant of the fix, and HTC doesn't seem to be able to shed any light on whether or not it's coming, and last week Microsoft posted the blog entry that I can summarize by saying "from here out we'll give you no indication at all whether or not a firmware update for your phone is forthcoming."

So for many of us knowledge about the fix is about as useful as a picture of a glass of water to some one stranded in a hot desert sad
One of the problems with WP7 period is having to use Zune to update. I have a few friends who have WP7, and they know nothing at all about tech (not to be rude but that is probably why they were talked into a wp7). I tell them how they need to connect to zune to update their phone and they say "Huh whats zune?". I know it's no different than connecting to Itunes, but Itunes is well known and people feel comfortable with it. Not so much with Zune. I keep telling people they have a huge update waiting for them and they just look at me like a deer in the headlights!
@xSteven777x
I don't believe anybody could be talked into buying a WP7 device simply because the sales representatives are not the least bit interested in pushing WP7, indeed, every single time I have gone into a retail store and mentioned WP7 the representative tried to steer me to Android or the iPhone.....reps aren't pushing people to WP7, they are pushing people AWAY from WP7.
@Doctor Demento so you are saying the sales people are smart, steering customers to the better choices? You cannot say that WmP7.x is the best mobile OS (It does not win on functionality, security, looks, or even ease of use)
@xSteven777x

Actually, Zune is probably way way easier then Itunes, so for "beginners", it might be far better to use zune then Itunes. In any case, Microsoft DOES have the ability to deliver over the air, a shame they haven't to date utilised it, that way, they would get an update popup on the phone, and press OK to apply the update.
One of the many reasons behind Apple's iPhone success is that they took control away from the carriers and put it back where it belonged, in the hands of users and the phone's manufacturer. While Microsoft has made some unexpected gains in delivering a credible, non-copy machine competitor to the iPhone, their deference to the will of the mobile carriers is a huge mistake that will come back to haunt them.
What bull. I've been waiting ages for this fix.

Microsoft really needs to take the reigns and push updates themselves.
@Cylon Centurion Agreed 100% and have been saying the same thing since the beginning of this update mess. I don't know about you but part of the reason I bought into WP7 was because in the two months leading up to its release Microsoft swore, up and down, they were going to have a seamless update function. Streamlining OS updates and promoting development was, after all (according to them), why they mandated hardware specifications.

Here we sit and it's still business as usual. OEM manufacturers are still able to jerk around bits and pieces of the OS updates due to firmware, carriers are still able to withhold or outright not deliver updates. WP7 users have every right to be angry and taking shots at Microsoft over this because Microsoft made a claim they have yet to deliver on instead choosing to play "point the finger".

If they'd just get off their collective arses and re-engineer the Zune software specifically for WP7, Microsoft could take back the update process by pushing OS updates through Zune software.
However the part about the update page just doesnt wash. It's only becomes unweildy if they throw everything on it all at once. However if they simply let you pick your country, your carrier, your phone manufacturer and model, then the whole thing is still very simple. Bad on MS for dropping the ball on this front.

Join the conversation!

Formatting +
BB Codes - Note: HTML is not supported in forums
  • [b] Bold [/b]
  • [i] Italic [/i]
  • [u] Underline [/u]
  • [s] Strikethrough [/s]
  • [q] "Quote" [/q]
  • [ol][*] 1. Ordered List [/ol]
  • [ul][*] · Unordered List [/ul]
  • [pre] Preformat [/pre]
  • [quote] "Blockquote" [/quote]
ie8 fix

The best of ZDNet, delivered

ZDNet Newsletters

Get the best of ZDNet delivered straight to your inbox

Facebook Activity

White Papers, Webcasts, & Resources
ie8 fix